If Democrats have been threatened by RW-We need to know the details.

[European Socialist]

If they can't come together with a full report, with full media coverage-then how can We accept it as fact.

[Howardx]

1. what are you referring to?

n/t

[European Socialist]

6. Every time you criticize dems for not being more agressive....

there are always posts about how they been threatened and intimidated by RW elements connected with the GOP.

[Dr Fate]

8. It's true. That and "they have been banned from the TV shows."

I agree with you- its an excuse and no one can ever prove this.

If it is happening, they need to say so.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I was told this by a US Senator and I detected

quite a bit of fear in his voice

The problem is, it has happened, but the wheels of justice that should protect them are not.

I suspect it started with the Anthrax attacks, and what we as citizens must do is demand, not that they grow a backbone, but that justice be done.

By the way, here is another piece of well known evidence, Dashcle to this day has a Secret Service detail, which is unprecedented.

[Dr Fate]

14. Then he needs to say so, on TV- give examples, and demand it stop.

If he cant stick up for himself, then I cant count on him to stick up for ME.

If his family is being threatened, then he needs to resign- but say why. ON TV.

I'm not accepting these excuses anymore- if we have people being black-mailed, threatened, censored, etc then they need to SAY SO- or go.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. They can't get on TV

it is to the point that even if the whole Democratic delegation stepped out of Congress, Nekkid, the press will NOT show up.

Think Germany in the 1930s. We have been close to the night of the long knives a couple times over already.

That said, Dashle is NO LONGER a US Senator, and he had a US Secret Service Detail before he left the Senate and still has a detail.

Next time you have a chance, try to talk to any of the leadership, if you can, or the old hands, in private. This was one of the scariest moments when I was told by a long time servant (no, NOT Daschle) what was up. They are telling people who ask them, so I suspect we take the message home. In many ways, it is now up to US... they will follow, but even the wheels of justice are not working. The whole thing is quite dysfunctional, and the fear of this particular US Senator is... even if we take the Houses, their control of the media is almost complete, hence why AAR and the Net are so threatening to their control.

So in many ways it is UP TO US... to expose them and challenge this power structure they have built. The other thing we need is the break up of the media monopoly.

[iconoclastic cat]

20. What exactly is happening to them?

Are they being blackmailed? Physically threatened?

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Well Daschle was physically threatened

hence why he has to this day a SS detail, and is taken around in a lightly armored vehicle.

The Anthrax attacks were seen as a clear message

They have been in many ways blocked from US media, there is a dictat out there... you saw it with Kucinich and his race to the WH... we knew he was running, but if you stuck to MSM, you'd never know.

And the threats are also against their families...

Some are starting to speak out... (conyers, boxer and others) and they are starting to pay with no pork for their pet projects... but they expect other forms of harrasment... Kennedy in the No Fly list is a perfect example.

If you pay afternoon you will notice that for some reason the only people who end up in that list are Democrats, coincidence? you tell me.

[Dr Fate]

32. I've never heard DEMs say that Bush was behind it.

If they have good reason to believe he is, then they can say so.

Until they do, I'm not accepting it as an excuse for their pussy-footing.

[Dr Fate]

28. I dont need a private conversation- I need them to say it ON TV.

And please, dont tell me that Kerry, Hillary, Obama, Reid & Dean are not allowed on TV- I've seen them on TV hundreds of times.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Yes but for many reasons they won't

and if you cannot accept that this is going on I cannot help you.

By the way, Obama is new, has not been long enough to be part of it

Kerry I suspect is protecting the family and the family fortune... one thing is to take bullets when you are a young man, quite another when you have a family

Hillary will not say it, she is DLC.. I am sorry but I have no respect for the DLC wing of the party no more.

Reid... he has shown far more spine, but there is a limit as to where or what he can say on TV, there is truly a dictat out there

Dean.. he has given hints here and there, but they are so obscure that they don't make sense unless you have had these conversations.

I am not making excuses for them, but alas I do understand what is happening. I also agree with you in one point, IF and this is the operative word, IF they have clear evidence that can stand in a court of law and then they come and say it on I don't know AAR and proceed to file charges, the whole thing will crumble. The problem is this is a RICO type conspiracy and getting all the pieces of the puzzle is hard for the FBI, how hard to you think this is for the Congress critters and Senators with no law enforcement capabilities, hence why the system is very dysfunctional.


They just cannot just go on TV, asusming any body carried it, and say... we have been threatened... they just cannot do it, for that will give the RW what they need to finish what they have started. In order to do this, they need evidence that can stand in a court of law.

Oh and if you think they are not frustrated, I have a bridge to sell you... I even own the deed.

[Dr Fate]

38. Then they are of no help to me, or this nation.

If they cant stand up for themselves and if they allow others to threaten & compromise them, then they are not good Democrats.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. It has NOTHING to do with being a good democrat or not

if they go on national Teeevee and make these charges they better have the goods on them, or they will be hauled to civil court at the very least for slander.

Do you understand that? They just cannot go and scream this from the rooftops... and if you think the ones doing the threatening will NOT find a way to haul them to Jail after filing criminal charges I again offer a bridge in Brooklin...

Maybe it is time for YOU to run, and walk a mile in their shoes.

I am sure you will soon learn what they have learned. I mean they are not good Democrats... ok... Durbin gave you the clearest indicators of where things are... and you saw what happened to Durbin.... that is the place where they work.

[Dr Fate]

44. So Durbin was threatened with Antrax- or was it a "small plane" thing?

It's all clear to me now.

Allowing the GOP to sue them for slander would be a perfect way to expose the issue- but you have to want to fight for what is right to do that.

That, or none of this is happening.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. I have no idea how they got to him

but they got to him

[Dr Fate]

48. Wolf Blitzer held a gun to him on the Senate floor.

n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Yuo are obviously being silly

read The Prince by Nichollo Machievelli, or the writings of Goebbels, for a hint

[Dr Fate]

64. I'll wait for the Democrats to make these charges for my hint.

n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. then you will wait a long time

they have, Durbin's speech, but you missed it

[Dr Fate]

72. If all you say is true, then silence is the problem.

While talking about it is the solution- I'm about solutions, not excuses.

If all you say is true, then the problem still boils down to DEMs not being willing to fight.

I saw Durbin's blubbering speech- he caved to public pressure from the GOP/media- but if it makes you feel better to think he was physically threatened or whatever, that's your choice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. if you think it is an excuse fine

RUN FOR OFFICE, maybe then you will finally get it

[struggle4progress]

70. The democratic ideal is simply : responsibility lies with ordinary folk.

If you want the crap to stop, it is you who must take the stand.

[Dr Fate]

73. I'd be glad to. When can you get me a slot on Wolf Blitzer's program?

I'd love to tell him all about the Downing Street Memo.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Good, maybe if we get you the spot

Leslie will cut your mike off too, and you will finally get it

[struggle4progress]

79. You don't need a slot on Wolf Blitzer. Social power is constructed ..

.. from thousands of tiny daily interactions: what people say to the store clerk when they buy gas, how people comment on the news magazines when standing in the checkout line at the grocery store ...

People don't need to see another talking head on the news: they need to hear somebody on the bus reading the paper say "I can't frickin believe the new energy bill didn't do anything about the price of gas" or "Pat Robertson sounds like a terrorist to me" or "We're wasting billion dollars a week in Iraq."

People need to see somebody snort derisively at rightwing crap.

Who gives a fug who's on Wolf's show?

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. Ah yes

and distributing hand bills and talking to the neighboors

And mostly giving info, printing the DSM and just "leaving them behind" atthe grocery cart.

yes the way the Founding Fathers did it, but many have forgotten how to do it and expect people to go on the stenography corp

[struggle4progress]

101. Well, the stenography corp has its uses -- but the stenographers ..

.. are often unreliable.

Anyway, the instruments of mass production of consciousness are in the hands of a group that has interests different than mine, so I think that I if I want a different consciousness I might have to help produce it myself

[Dr Fate]

89. Check- I already do all that.

My swing voteing relatives care who is on Wolf's show, BTW.

It would have been great if they had seen Dean or Kerry on that show talking about the Downing Street Memo- oh- I forgot- he would cut their mics.

[struggle4progress]

103. If you want someone to sympathize about how gutless many Dems ..

.. have been, I'm happy to.

But I don't expect to change everybody's mind, so I don't aim my first efforts at people who are tuned into wingnut noise

[Booster]

71. I agree that they need to say so. As an analogy, if a bank was

robbed of thousands of dollars and the robber told the teller not to say anything or else he would be back, how would everybody feel if the teller said nothing? On the otherhand, there is always a "deepthroat" in Wash DC who is probably salivating for just of the Dems to contact him and start the ball rolling. There's always a way to foil a blackmailer if you're smart; maybe that's it, maybe they really aren't that smart. I'd be willing to bet that if Boxer were threatened even with her life, she would come out swinging.

[calimary]

93. Oh really?????

No shit.

Not that I'm terribly surprised, BTW. I've long suspected that Daschle got an anthrax letter at his office - AND elsewhere. Perhaps at home. Perhaps his wife or one of his close relatives got one where they work or something. An incident he was made to understand must never be made public - or else...

I cut him a lot of slack for the shrewd way he and Christopher Dodd manipulated things so that Jim Jeffords felt comfortable leaving the republi-CON party. That was just plain shrewd. And then for him to follow that wily, opportunistic cleverness with all the mamby-pamby appeasement crap - just seemed a little out of character.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if he'd been threatened (or his family had - remember the rovian M.O. - wives and family members are "fair game") more seriously than he ever let on. It was probably one of his family member's necks that was on the line, not his.

Good LORD these are horrible people.

[Pam-Moby]

2. What????????????

:crazy: :shrug: :shrug:

[quiet.american]

3. Who's "we" ? n/t

[European Socialist]

9. People who would like to vote democratic-if given a good reason.

[quiet.american]

24. Effective national security, robust economy, low prices at the gas pump--

If you're looking for a reason to vote for a Democrat, there's a few.

[Dr Fate]

11. Count me as part of the "we."

If DEMs are being threatened,censored or banned- then unless I hear them SAY SO- I'll consider it a conspiracy theory.

It's an excuse I see on DU all the time, and I'm not buying it anymore either- unless I hear them make the charge.

[quiet.american]

26. If you read it on DU all the time, then haven't you heard it SAID SO?

Seriously, just asking. What are you looking for -- a deposition?

[Dr Fate]

31. Er- No- I've never heard a DEM make any of these charges...

...only DUers who would rather make excuses than have DEMs fight for us.

[quiet.american]

33. Are you sober? n/t

[Dr Fate]

35. Personal attacks instead of facts.

Show me the Democrat making these charges.

[quiet.american]

40. Hmn. A non-denial denial.

Typical.

[Dr Fate]

43. I have no idea where you are coming from.

My position is that if top DEMs are being threatened, as many DUers claim, then these DEMs need to say so-ON TV- and provide examples.

[quiet.american]

45. Your saying this is the first I've heard of it. n/t

[Dr Fate]

51. Oh-no- I've heard annonymous DUers say it for years.

I've "heard" lots of things on DU.

[quiet.american]

54. Hopefully, some of it even got through. :)

[Dr Fate]

62. Yeah- I should start believing more annonymous internet posts.

n/t

[quiet.american]

78. Nevertheless, seems to be on your mind a lot. n/t

[Dr Fate]

90. True dat. n/t

n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. And we are telling yuo they have NO ACCESS to the TV

there is a Dictat, read what happened in Germany between 1933 and 1938, for we are walking down the same road, replace democrats for Social Democrats

[Dr Fate]

50. Then how did Howard Dean appear on my TV screen so many times?

Must be those flash backs they warned me about.

I could have sworn i saw Howard Dean on TV 10 or 15 times this summer- oh well.

Who is "banning" Kerry, Hillary, Obama & Reid from their shows- and whcih of these DEMs have said this is happening?

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Ok how many times did you see Kucinich?

Look there is a problem with access, people tell yuo this, they see it on Leslie blitzer and other programs, you cannot see it, we can't help you

[Dr Fate]

63. I saw Dennis speak his mind on TV plenty of times during the primaries.

n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. If you were in Cleveland maybe

but for the most part he was not covered...

and that is the truth...

Now you saw OTHER candidatse quite a bit more.

[Dr Fate]

69. Or in Augusta GA.

But every other city "conveniently" did not show any of the Democratic primary debates, or all the interviews that you and I saw.

And whenever Kerry tried to talk about the DSM on the Seante floor, CSPAN "lost" the footage. Those BASTARDS!!!

We are through the looking glass,people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. The debates were on air

after that, you saw much coverage of Kucinich, the more power to you

[Dr Fate]

95. Yeah- they were on the air- imagine that.

I guess the CIA forgot to censor those.

Kusinich did not get as much coverage because very few people were voting for him in the primaries- either that or the "Area 51 aliens" abducted him.

The media also would not play a lot of Kerry's press conferences- but all this is different from saying they are being threatened or censored.

Kerry, Dean & Hilary and other "star" DEMs can get slots on those TV interview shows pretty much anytime they want- and they could talk about things like the DSM if they really wanted too. They could also do it in the well of the Senate.

[wli]

55. They can't get airtime on TV. It won't help to try.

The broadcast will just be cut off.

[Dr Fate]

67. Suuure- just like they do to Kerry, Dean & Hillary all the time...

And just like they CSPAN has banned them from the Senate floor, apparently, and just like "the CIA internet man" has banned them from sending out mass e-mails.

BOO!!!!

[Dr Fate]

4. But if we did that, they would "send us anthrax."

;)

[iconoclastic cat]

23. Now, that's scary.

[Dr Fate]

37. LOL! Make it stop- I promise I'll vote the Bankruptcy bill- MAKE IT STOP!!

!!!

[iconoclastic cat]

5. You really to clarify this.

[European Socialist]

7. Are the threats happening or not? Many people here think so.

[Dr Fate]

10. It's usually a desperate excuse for why their '08 pick is not fighting.

I agree with you- if we are being threatened, its time to lay the cards on the table and say so.

I think its more of an excuse for bad strategy that a reality.

I have this debate with DUers all the time, who claim, for example, that DEMs wont discuss the DSM "because they are not allowed on TV."

Of course, no one can ever prove it or explain why they fail to mention it when I see them on TV with my own eyes!!!

I understand your frustration- keep asking this question!

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. As i said they are

they are in an incredibly bad possition... now in some ways it is up to us...

Will they follow? Who knows, but iti s not the GOP by the way, it is the bush crime family... and so far they have also killed a US Senator. (Wellstone)

[Dr Fate]

15. I've never heard a Democrat make that claim.

Until I do, I'll consider it an excuse or conspiracy theory.

If they cant stick up for themsleves, then I cant count on them to stick up for me.

It's not up to me at all- I'm not the one who can go on TV and make the charge and list examples.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. I have, talk to them IN PRIVATE

[Dr Fate]

30. Then they can say it on TV for ALL to hear then.

Until they do, I'll assume it is not true.

I'm sick of the excuses and the spinelessness.

If they are being threatened, themn they can go on TV and say so, with actual examples. W

What better way to neutralize it than to call them on it?

[papau]

39. Dems are threaten by RW and by Gov groups controlled by RW

Likewise media does cut Dems off if they try to speak..


On the media topic, one of Wolf's shows (last week?) had a Dem try to bring up a Bush lie - and Wolf says sorry that is not our topic today - do you have anything on this topic - and then he talked over him as the person tried to explain - cutting him off.

Dashle's secret service detail might tell one - or perhaps hint - to some folks - that he has been threaten.

Plus whenever any Dem says he has been threaten, the media goes after him with the RW "he's crazy" spin and the "of course that is unthinkable and never happen - has he lost his sense of decency - or is his brain just a little lose - or of course we all know so and so has a history of far left off the wall comments (whether true or not).

BOGUS - the "unless I hear more from Dems" line is bullshit and BOGUS

But then that is just my opinion.

[Dr Fate]

41. Excuses, excuses.

Which DEM was cut off on Wolf's show? Was he an elected DEM or what?

Has that DEM gone on the Daily Show or Air America, or to his constituents, or ont he floor of Congress and exaplained how he was censored?

We need to stop making excuses or we are just going to keep losing elections.

Of course the media would go after them if they say this- that is why they need to have examples- if it is really happening.

If this shit is happening, then THEY need to talk about it- ON TV. otherwise we may as well hang it up.

[papau]

57. The host can demand you stay on topic - and yes this shit happens

Media Matters has all the examples any sane person would need.

If you can suggest a way we can get past the media gate keepers without looking like asses, I suggest a post in DU and an email to Dean at the DNC.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. There are so many examples

it is not even funny, but I guess Denial is not only a river in Egypt, as you well know....

As to solutions... I have been racking my head over that one since I had that conversation with a US Senator... and so far I can only see one, which is very much so a double edge sword... the Democrats EN MASSE need to call a press conference wiht AAR and other "FRIENDLY" media... and then refuse to play the game.

If they do that, they may force the hand of those who control all... but I am not holding my breath on that

[papau]

60. I agree - & the solution of a press conference carried by AAR does not

seem that powerful.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. I know this is why this is so damn frustrating

that is why I said Other "friendly" media...

[Dr Fate]

81. It would be a small start. Dean & Kerry could write op-Eds too.

All the top DEMs could mention it at every single event, appearance and interview: "Everytime we try to talk about the Downing Street Memo- they cut our....-hey- did you hear that???- they just did it again!!!"

They could also use their mass-emails to list examples.

*IF* it is really happening, that is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. so until you hear it (never mnd Durbin hinted at it)

you won't believe it.

Ok... whatever

I guess when historicans finally document this in interviews yuo will also continue to deny it happened.

[Dr Fate]

85. I wont except it as an excuse for constant failure.

If it is happening, we need to fight it.

We fight it by exposing it.

We expose it by talking about it and making the charge.

I'm offering possible solutions rather than keeping this theory as a catch all excuse for constant failure and capitulation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. Well yuo have haerd it on the edges

you cannot accept it is happening, we cannot help you

Those of us who KNOW it is happening, work around it... and when a Congreessman or senator says such, we suport them... DURBIN

[Dr Fate]

87. It's not about *me* accepting anything.

It's about our supposed "leaders" telling the truth.

It's about doing somthing about this (If it is really happening) instead of keeping it as a stand-by excuse for everything the DEMs refuse to fight for us on.

If they are being strong-armed, black-mailed, censored, banned, threatened, whatever-then they need to say so and list examples, and call for investigations of it.

[bread_and_roses]

99. Yes. Exactly. On both an ethical and even a practical level silence

would be deadly if such threats were/are occurring.

This is not about what I think the BFEE or their minions are capable of - I personally would not be surprised at anything. But in the absence of any such claim in public, it is about manufacturing excuses for cowardice and sail-trimming and profiteering.

If such threats are being made - especially if to more than one person - that would be a great hammer in the Dems hands that they would be fools not to use.

Sunlight is a great disinfectant, and in the scenario posited, also the safest environment.

[Dr Fate]

106. Thank you for crystalizing my thoughts. n/t

n/t

[Dr Fate]

77. I dont need to hear it from Media Matters- I need to hear it from DEMs.

If all your examples are good enough for "sane" people, then why cant all these "sane" Democrats like Kerry, Dean, or Hilary talk about it?

"Looking like asses?" So telling the supposed truth makes one look like an ass?

It's simple-when you are on a friendly show, like Air Ameirca, Daily Show, etc you bring up the examples. You make an issue of the "fact" that "every time I tried to talk about the Downing street memo, Wolf would cut my mic." You say it over and over. You get the rest of the DEMS to say it too. *IF* it is really happening, that is.

They could also itemize these examples with dates & times on the floor of congress or the senate. If they have dates & times- will they really look like asses?

Can you give me the date of that program so I can check out the transcript and see for myself?

[papau]

108. pop over to media matters - or send them an email - and you will

have your data.

As to threats, read the Wash Post re Dashle.

That is "IF YOU REALLY CARE" - I suspect "if it really happens" is today's meme.

I find the doubt - pretended or real - of the poster's using the meme de Jure - best satisfied if they satisfy it without much more help from me than a pointer.

So Media Matters, and google or search the WaPo archives.

Then come back and post a solution that wins more votes than it loses - and does not just satisfy some manhood or righteous or ready for confrontation position.

Indeed, this sounds a great deal like a conversation with Nader - who also ignores facts so as to pose and get attention. Not that any folks on this thread are doing that - I am just observing that it sounds like Nader.

Christ - I wish someone did come up with a solution that did not dig the hole deeper when put through the RW whore media we now have.

[ElectroPrincess]

104. Follow their money and investments ...

Methinks that many of these so called Democratic Representatives and Senators are highly invested in companies supporting the war machine. Follow the money is the best, KISS principle to get at their true motivation.

Their butts are there to be OUR representatives. If they are intimidated then, get out and let someone with a spine and moral courage take their place.

No sympathy for gutless wonders who kiss the large corporation's butts as well as provide these bloated companies welfare from our hard earned tax dollars. Monies that will make the rich richer and leave the rest of us "little people" in the lurch.

[Q]

16. I would like to know why the Democratic Leadership is ignoring...

...the Bush White House TREASON. If Democrats were in the White House and one of their staff exposed a CIA Agent...the REPUBLICAN PARTY WOULD BE SCREAMING FROM THE ROOFTOPS AND DEMANDING THAT THE TRAITOR BE FOUND AND PROSECUTED.

So why is the Democratic leadership silent on this matter?

Treason against the United States and we're not doing anything about it? Have they been threatened if they demand justice in this case?

Shame on the Democratic party for not doing their duty.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. The treason is far more extensive than just

exposing a CIA Operative... that is just the tip of the iceberg

[Dr Fate]

21. I'll list the usual excuses and save others the work:

1. Rove will "send them anthrax"

2. They would, but Wolf Blitzer would cut their mics.

3. All but Biden & Lieberman have been "banned" from all news shows- and apparently from the well of the senate floor as well. Any Dean, Kerry or Hillary interview you see is a figament of your imagination.

4. They will be "Wellstoned"

5. They are(Choose one)- giving them enough rope to hang themselves, playing rope-a-dope, playing chess.

6. Refusing to tell the truth about Bush "impresses swing voters."

Does that cover it?

[iconoclastic cat]

22. So, you're skeptical of the "they're being threatened" thing?

[Dr Fate]

29. I have no opinion until I hear them, not DUers say it is happening.

When I hear a national DEM make that charge, then I'll consider it.

[BeFree]

53. Common sense, doc, common sense

First the most horrific attack on American soil takes place under them.

Followed shortly by the anthrax mailed to several key dems. In the cleanup senator's offices are scoured night and day by elements of national security... geez, ya think they didn't go through all the personal files and papers?

Even pukes have clammed up.... they've altered their own behaviors so much for years now it leaves most of us wondering: WTF!

Look at how the b**hies have outright lied. Look at what they consider doing to the overseas opposition: Shock and Awe.

Do you not see they have proven themselves willing and able to do WHATEVER they can to gain power?

That may not be proof, but it is enough evidence to make a sound judgement that our people have been threatened. If you need absolute proof for yourself, do as was asked of you upthread: Go ask one of them.

Otherwise you do seem to have an opinion, as displayed here so abundantly. It is rare to see someone carry on as you have in this thread. WTF?

[Dr Fate]

83. Fine- I need to hear a "common sense" Democrat SAY THAT then.

If it is such common sense, then Kerry, Dean, Hilary, etc should not mind making the charge.

"We would love to talk about the Downing Street Memo- but they might send us Antrax, so we cant." :)

[mmonk]

27. Who is threatening them,

the DLC or the republicans? Of course some republicans are but I guess they figure that's their job. But why listen to them since they are a party which has so many impeachable offenses in their belt. Point those offenses out. Oh yeah, I forgot. The DLC said to be quiet on that stuff. They might get called "liberals" or something.

[Dr Fate]

34. MUCH closer to the truth.

thanks

[wli]

56. There's nowhere that will carry the story.

The media lockdown is total, and (of course) they're under the threat that if any such statement can be traced to them they'll be assassinated.

In private, off the record, and under the condition of anonymity, you may be able to talk to a Congressman and hear it. But they dare not be caught mentioning it in a public forum.

[Dr Fate]

84. And CSPAN would delete it if they said it on the Senate floor.

And "the CIA internet man" would delete their mass-emails if they listed examples.

We are through the looking glass, people!

[wli]

92. not sure what you're on about

Email would more likely be dealt with by calling it a hoax, since things like cracking their computers, the email being faked by a false source, and so on are easy to falsely claim.

[Dr Fate]

94. What about those E-mails I always get from Kerry or Dean?

They never sent me one about the Downing Street memo- they sent me mails about every other issue under the sun, but not about the DSM hearings, or Kerry's supposed efforts to gather signatures.

they never sent me one about all these threats and censorship efforts that are supposedly occuring either.

I guess the "CIA internet man" deleted them.

We are through the looking glass, people!!!!

[wli]

98. more likely they're too scared n/t

[Dr Fate]

105. Then what good are they to anyone? n/t

n/t

[wli]

107. good question. I suspect Paul Hackett has the answers. n/t

[struggle4progress]

59. Related poll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2029515

[struggle4progress]

68. There's been a constant drumbeat of rightwing calls for violence ..

.. and it wouldn't be surprising in the least if such irresponsibility on the part of media outlets and political leaders encouraged the worst elements in society.

What difference would it make whether Bush were personally behind any of it? He's an empty suit.

We've seen this game before, and it's very ugly: in the civil rights era, the pro-segregationist politicians who pandered to the violent Klansmen may never have shot anybody or bombed any churches -- but they share moral responsibility for encouraging those acts. The police who refused to investigate fully, the attorneys who refused to prosecute effectively, the judges who slanted the law for the guilty, and the juries who refused to convict because all they wanted some people "kept in their place" share moral responsibility, too.

Look at who's riding the airwaves; look at the dishonesty that pervades the body politic; and look at the consequences at home and abroad. Abu Ghraib didn't just happen, and neither did Guantanamo.

You want your "leaders" to fight back. But I say, fight back yourself. Every single small interaction you have every day either contributes to the existing power structure or strikes a little blow against it.

[European Socialist]

97. We all know Bush plays dirty, but it's hard to believe you can intimidate

everyone in the Democratic party. If this situation is as bad as some suggest-why can't 10 or 20 dems get together and hold a press conference-show some examples and demand an investigation. The media would have to cover something like this, and would drive Bush approval even lower.

[struggle4progress]

100. You didn't understand what I said. There's a constant drumbeat ..

.. of threatening noise going on: it ranges from the vicious noise of Limbaugh, Coulter, Beck, and their ilk, to the vicious threat of imprisonment without charge or trial ala Jose Padilla, to the threat of kidnapping and torture ala Maher Arar, to the threat of phony evidence against you ala Brandon Mayfield.

This goes rather beyond Bush, who I regard as a wooden figurehead on a ship of very nasty fools ...

[bvar22]

88. Cheney DIRECTLY THREATENED Paul Wellstone...

..before the Iraq War Vote


Before his death, Sen. Paul Wellstone met with vice president, Dick Cheney, who threatened him: "If you vote against the war in Iraq, the Bush administration will do whatever is necessary to get you. There will be severe ramifications for you..."

http://www.freedomfiles.org/archives/paulwellstone2.htm




another account:

Cheney was rounding up Senate support for the October 2002 vote on giving the administration carte blanche to invade Iraq, with or without blessing from the United Nations. Cheney strong-armed opposing politicians like the most vindictive of mafioso leaders, and opponents usually gave in.

But not Wellstone. Whatever you thought of his progressive brand of politics, he wasn't a wimp. And that's what made him more than dangerous in the eyes of people like Cheney.

At a meeting full of war veterans in Willmar, Minn., days before his death, Wellstone told attendees that Cheney told him, "If you vote against the war in Iraq, the Bush administration will do whatever is necessary to get you. There will be severe ramifications for you and the state of Minnesota."

Wellstone cast his vote for his conscience and against the Iraq measure, the lone Democrat involved in a tough 2002 election campaign to do so. And a few weeks later on Oct. 25, as he appeared to be winning his re-election bid, Wellstone, his wife, Sheila, his daughter, Marcia Markuson, three campaign staffers, and two pilots died in a plane crash in Minnesota.


http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread28207/pg1



.....and then the Paul's death in a mysterous light plane crash a couple of weeks after Wellstone voted AGAINST the War???!!!


I put NOTHING beyond the BFEE.

[Wizard777]

91. There was a lady in that claimed in legal filings that Bush had Raped her

She commited Suicide.

[struggle4progress]

102. Margie Schoedinger.

[papau]

109. Not a good example as the filings themselves presented a crazy lady

but there are enough real examples for most folks.

The fellow who went with Bush to the underage whore house in Mexico is known - there is just no verification.

The crashing of his plan in the 70's is in a book - but the verification has not been released as it is buried in his unreleased Guard records. The community service for dope, his mid 20's rape of the 15 year old and paying for her abortion are all known to the media - and in all cases the media said it was not verified enough, or in the case of the rape, it was a violation of privacy (this last one still makes me laugh at the morals of the media!).

[stillcool]

96. the library may be of help to you....

There are many books available about the workings of our government. Books that are non-fiction, well sourced and documented. There is a non-fiction group here on DU that can point you in the right direction. There is alot to learn that you will never see on the televised news.