DU doesn't like me

[XScharlie]

I've already received replies from my first posts where I catch a lot of flak :(

Gosh, what a welcome!

I'm a Southern Democrat moved west.... in SoCal now...

I believe in true Democrat ideals and truly believe that Bill Clinton was the greatest post-war US president. I'm quite discontent at today's state of the union... but I'm unhappy with the direction of the Deomocrat party.

So I get tarred and feathered here??

I'm pro-choice, ANTI-CORPORATE greed/corruption, anti-gun, donate to greenpeace, PETA and have 2 dogs from a no-kill shelter. I'm a 15 year member of the Sierra Club and spend 2 weeks in Yosemite/Yellowstone every year, I bought a Toyota Prius BEFORE they were COOL and a Honda Insight before that.

But I believe that moveon.org/mmoore/gsoros are leading us in the wrong direction. If we don't respond gracefully to the republicns we will be delegated to a second class party for the rest of MY LIFE.

There's something you all don't understand. Republicans are politically and socially LAZY. If you fly under the radar you can get away with ANYTHING!!!!!!

If you wake up the GOP with talk of Sheehan, late term abortions, gay marriage and Rumsfeld this and Cheney that... they all take their Sunday church bingo club minivan to the polls and we LOSE.

Be cool... play the game and we WIN and get what we want!! 2008 is RIPE for a Dem in the whitehouse. If we blow it, we have only ourselves to blame. Pick someone who is NON-CONTROVERSIAL and NOT Hillary, Kerry or such... it must be someone who is teflon, someone who is untouchable. Maybe a middle of the road fairly anonymous governor of a blue state? Remember the republicans will have the albatross around THEIR necks in '08, we will win by default if there's no drama around OUR guy.

Now I know some of you will say, "Oh yeah right, and give up on ALL our principles??"

And I say "Take your principles into the closet where noone will hear them" and enjoy victory. Stand on the rooftops and bask in defeat.

It's your choice! I'd rather have MY GUY in without much drama and quietly influence the country and the judiciary. Otherwise we get:

Allen 2008-2016
J BUSH 2016-2024

[Mr Rabble]

1. You catch flak for being wrong.

Not for speaking your mind.

[JimmyJazz]

5. That's implying that the OP was wrong. A difference of opinion

doesn't necessarily mean a person was wrong.

Could we be a little nicer in our greeting? :shrug:

[AtomicKitten]

21. I'd prefer to say I don't agree with your opinion.

First of all, we can't start kowtowing to the fascists by suppressing our own First Amendment right. That's nonsense.

And Paul Hackett answered their BS anti-abortion rhetoric by saying the government needs to butt out of our bedrooms, thereby diffusing the religious overtones and completely knocking their emotional BS off track.

Perhaps we could rephrase our rhetoric, but the bottom line is that the GOP is WRONG on abortion, WRONG on gay rights, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

And not saying so is a disservice to our cause, that being opposition to their crappola platform.

Rather than trying to placate these big-mouths, we need to stand up straight and state our case unequivocally, without fear, without intimidation. If you had seen Colleen Rowley's interview on MSNBC yesterday against a loony pro-war Cindy-sucks caravan person, she was serene yet never backed down, and the guy was a stark raving lunatic. THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE DONE.

Ps. Oh, BTW, welcome to DU from a newbie myself. Don't be discouarged. We learn and grow by exchanging ideas.

[Pepperbelly]

51. wrong?

Harsh words for things that are, after all, matters of opinion.

[meegbear]

2. Sorry you had a welcome like that ...

:party: WELCOME ABOARD!!! :party:

I for one am glad you're here. Screw the drama!

[mattclearing]

3. Democrat is not an adjective.

One way to help get your posts taken seriously would be to correctly name the Party.

Your post reminds me of other posts I've seen around here lately. At least yours is mostly spelled correctly, though.

[Eloriel]

29. Yeah, and I can't understand how

someone can say, in one breath:

I'm pro-choice, ANTI-CORPORATE greed/corruption, anti-gun, donate to greenpeace, PETA and have 2 dogs from a no-kill shelter. I'm a 15 year member of the Sierra Club and spend 2 weeks in Yosemite/Yellowstone every year, I bought a Toyota Prius BEFORE they were COOL and a Honda Insight before that.

And then follow that up with:

But I believe that moveon.org/mmoore/gsoros are leading us in the wrong direction.

Or talk about the benefits of placating and coddling and enabling Repugs and fascists.

Just doesn't compute for me. :shrug:

[phillinweird247]

4. I like you!

[NYCGirl]

39. Looks like Joe Biden found DU!

"I like you, you're the real deal!" — Joe Biden to Alberto Gonzales.

:evilgrin:

[SteppingRazor]

6. While I certainly welcome you here, I would argue your point...

historically, the larger the voter turnout, the better for the Dems.

[Fovea]

7. Here is my problem with your suggestion.

You walk the walk, which is good.
But you advocate stealth progressive politics.

The things that make us better for America should not be swept under a rug, but fought for. Otherwise our progressive base moves to the green party, and we fragment the vote.

More people are actually progressive, when you ask them point by point what they favor, but the Dems backing away from the needs of the working classes empowers the right, and has weakened the Dems.

Clinton was 3rd way, and the DLC has pushed so far to the right as to become the second way. I am amazed to see either Clinton supporting it.

I can't help but feel if we stood up for our moral convictions, that a lot of folks who have either walked away from their civic duty, or who vote green would support our party. Further, we cannot win back those who have swung to the right and are now thinking better of it, by offereing them more of what they are abandoning.

That is my two cents, and I don't dislike you, just because i disagree.

[BeFree]

8. Easy there, fella

This is the Underground, eh?

We don't have to toe no line, or eat no shit. We do what we want and no poster has the right to come in here telling us we oughtta think this way or that, especially if THAT is to brown-nose the dem's who are all to willing to play the way the pukes tell 'em to.

Ya want to voice yer opinion? Fine. But don't expect all of us to salute everything you run up the flag pole. Especially if ya want us to salute the liebermans and millers. Ain't gonna happen.

Welcome to DU.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. Democrat party.

Who are you anyway. john mccain?

The dems are going to win because the citizens have mstakenly put their faith in the rw for a while now and as a result, have been throughly shit on. It will be very difficult for them to hang on in 2006 if things keep going the way they are going.

[BeFree]

12. ..hang on in 2006

The way things are going, with the exposure, sure and steady, of the way they stole the 2004 election, and with the resultant correction of the way elections have been run, means Democrats will be overwhelmingly elected again, only this time they won't be cheated from taking office.

[NoPasaran]

10. Welcome to DU

But put on your flameproof suit if you want to play in GD: Politics!

[XScharlie]

14. thx

i'll keep that in mind. Won't be much flaming for this though:

My biggest pet peeve is corporate america... god I hate them. Merck finally gets NAILED for killing people to make a buck, GOOD! BUSH freely allows open border immigration so that Tyson foods and their ILK can hire people for $5/hr and make obscene profits. ANyone seen the performance of OIL STOCKS lately?? MMmmmm... Hmmm.....

TELL ME I couldn't drive a Hydrogen Car next year! Tell me the technology's not ready. Tell me it's "just not possible". We all know the truth and it's spelled GM and FMC and DC and Exxon and Unocal.

[XScharlie]

11. In addition I'd like to say

Have the "left" money guys support a 3rd party candidate that fractures the republican party. Their party is SOOOOOO conflicted right now over BUSH's spending and his open border, on his knees in front of corporate America policies...

Support a 3rd party guy who's anti immigration with a closed border and preaches financial discipline... he'll siphon the 10% of righties out on the far right and we WIN. Remember, Colorado, Az will go blue easily. And without a "gay marriage" pinata to beat, the GOP can't repeat in OHIO.

Simple.

Better yet, have our nominee criticize the GOP spending and border policy... it's a winning issue.

[magnetism]

17. those are some good points

new here too. Hi!

[theHandpuppet]

43. Gee thanks -- NOT

It's so comforting to know that as long as my partner and I don't expect to be granted our basic human rights, our sisters give up their right to reproductive choice, and mothers like Cindy Sheehan don't make a fuss about Bush sending their sons and daughters to be killed in Iraq, we just might win an election with a candidate who can pass for a Republican!

WELL FUCK THAT! And stop acting like the victim here when you advocate sacrificing others' rights on the altar of what you view as political expediency. It's not becoming and trying to make people feel guilty so you can hook them into your tent is disingenuous at best. Oh boo-hoo, DU doesn't like me! Please, that stuff doesn't work with me. I don't even know you so I don't know whether I'd like you or not, but IMO your politics still suck.

You know what? Paul Hackett, who gave the GOP the run for their lives in one of the most red districts in the country, didn't have to give up any of those principles in order to run as a Democrat -- and when he wins the Senate seat in Ohio your little theory will look like it has more holes than a piece of rat-chewed cheese.

What people need are candidates with courage, ones who inspire, not obsequious party toadies trying their best to pass themselves off as Republicans.

[Scout1071]

56. OMG. I think I love you.

Great post!

[theHandpuppet]

59. Awww.... thankee

I may be an asshole in real life, but I still like my own politics! :D

[rateyes]

13. I welcome you to DU, and respect your opinion...

however, I don't agree with your strategy. I, for one, want to know a person's position on the issues, especially in the primaries. There's going to be a large field of candidates vying for the nomination---and before I pull a lever for any one of them, male or female, I want to know how they are going to lead. One can't find that out if the candidate "flies under the radar."

And, again, IMHO, if one never creates controversy, it probably means they aren't doing much.

[jonnyblitz]

15. calling cindy sheehan a "loser issue" isn't going to win

you friends here. it always amuses me to see so many DUers jumping to the defense of somebody who whining about being disliked without them checking out to see maybe why..:eyes:

[jonnyblitz]

16. and your posts on this thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2028854#2029041

[JimmyJazz]

20. Oh fer fux sake -

I changed my mind - he is wrong. :eyes:

[XScharlie]

22. but...

what I said was:

For all intents and purposes BUSH DID WIN in 2000 and 2004, I mean he's THERE in the WH right?? I someone going to REMOVE HIM? No. DID the GOP do nasty things to ensure this result, well YEAH! lol... but it's DONE.

And I call Sheehan a "loser issue" because it only alienates the majority of Dems from the "other 70%"... the fact that she ALREADY met with BUSH and her sone VOLUNTEERED and that her SON and FAMILY ALL oppose her has painted her as someone who may be less than genuine.

Like I said before, concentrate on where we're strongest. "Rant mode on"

Do we have an assault gun law? no. I can go buy an ak47 at a gun store. Why? Becasue Bill Clinton got one, without making waves. BUSH let it die.

Why are the filthy rich getting richer?

Does the government help first time homebuyers sufficiently?

How's the environment these days? Would you drink from a Montana stream?

Where's my Hydrogen car?

My sister the teacher is having her pension benefits cut again.

People can't afford to go to the doctor...

So you can rant about Cindy and let everything else go to hell? Back in the 90's people used to CARE about the environment... e.g. Clinton and the Coal Mining/Processing restrictions. I swear if Clinton had 8 MORE years, he really could have accomplished GREAT THINGS. But now that BOTH Clinton's have been painted by the RED brush, that's why I say we need another Clinton circa 1992.

[Scout1071]

26. Here's a little hint: work on your grammar.

It's a dead giveaway.

[XScharlie]

28. ??

I type quickly and don't go back to correct. Is that BAD? And as far as grammar, well... is it neccessary to have a Master's Degree to POST here?

[jonnyblitz]

31. starting a thread everytime people don't agree with you

to complain about it probably isn't a good thing either..:shrug:

[Scout1071]

35. No, you don't need a master's degree to post here.

Enjoy and welcome to DU.

:popcorn:

[Debs]

40. I am skeptical of anyone

Claiming to be a Dem but calling it the Democrat party instead of the DemocratIC party. Its rightwing framing, perhaps you are not a rightwing troll, but using THEIR framing and language is certain to make others skeptical, and push buttons

[theHandpuppet]

49. I hadn't even read that thread yet

But I smelled something"off" right away. Thanks for the heads up, johnnyblitz.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

18. Respectfully disagree with you....but welcome anyway. nt

[Javaman]

19. DU is wild and woolly, don't have a thin skin and be able to hold your own

Unlike free republic, this is a site for the free exchange of ideas. If you post something on here that is the least bit controversial, be prepared to defend it.

With that said, Welcome to DU!!! Sit down, have a drink. :)

[meganmonkey]

23. "There's something you all don't understand."

Say things like that about a group of 60,000 people and you're bound to catch some flak.

Slow down, know the ropes. There is something YOU don't understand - there are a lot of different kinds of people here. We all disagree with each other about stuff. Don't take it personally, and don't try to tell us all 'how it is' without expecting some argument.

Peace.

[XScharlie]

25. true...

But how is Cindy Sheehan going to rebuild teh coral reefs? This is just POLITICS, there ARE some things MORE IMPORTANT than politics. AND IMHO, all this Iraq stuff and Bin Laden hype is just a cover for BUSH to undue all the good things Dems have done over the last 30 years...

[meganmonkey]

30. Now I am confused

Is this thread about how you are being treated, or how you think 60,000 people on DU are ignorant about politics?

Check out some of the other forums on DU if you think there is too much Cindy in GD. Try LBN, or ER & D, or the Groups or the Issues forums. There are dozens of forums here.

And if you don't like DU and it's priorities then find a different board. I am not trying to be mean or give you flak, but I don't think it makes sense to come to a place like DU and have your first thread be about how wrong we all are. Especially since, as I have said, there are 60,000 people here with different ways of looking at things, and you keep generalizing. It's rude.

:shrug:

[XScharlie]

34. k

ok maybe I just picked the wrong "section"... I mean where else is a Democrat suppose to go to express himself? Not like we have a Limbaugh, Hannity or FoxNews to support our beliefs in day to day life :(

[meganmonkey]

36. I tried

my patience is gone. I am not a babysitter.

Good luck. Stop acting the victim and you may feel better about things.

Peace.

[melissinha]

57. I think Cindy's message resonates

as long as the media and the DLC don't relegate her message to be plain anti-war message.... she is doing the heavy work here for the party... its all about asking a question that Bush dare not answer.

If we can hammer him on this one, and the DLC finally starts nailing the coffin finally we can win.. sure some of your points are valid... but there are so many issues out there.

[NYCGirl]

24. You might want to explain in some detail just exactly HOW Moveon.org,

Michael Moore, and George Soros are LEADING US. Last I checked, none of those people or organizations were actually part and parcel of the DemocratIC Party. The only ones they seem to be leading is the right wing nutjobs, who hear those names and open their wallets to give money to other right wing nutjobs — specifically the ones who are telling everyone that Moveon.org, Michael Moore and George Soros are leading the Democratic Party.

So how are they leading us in the wrong direction? How are they leading us at all?

[XScharlie]

27. well

I'd hazard to GUESS that "MANY" here agree with the philosophies of those guys, right? Well if not leadership, then... maybe... ???

Ok, I'll give you guys THIS:

If you want to completely change politics over the next 100 years then you're doing the right thing. In 100 years we may have a truly progressive society...

But I'd kinda just like to WIN! And that's just MY opinion ;)

[NYCGirl]

38. Those entities don't effect policy. It's so completely mind-boggling the

power that the right wing wackos put into the hands of Michael Moore!

[marions ghost]

46. excellent point

these people are not our leaders, as much as we might appreciate anything they do to advance democratic causes. So it's really kind of irrelevant to use them as examples of those we should not support. Ths kind of stereotyping of Democrats smacks of rightwing talking points.

[Armstead]

32. You need a thick hide here

Whatever is said, it will either cheese off the lefties, the centrists, the pro-choicers, the anti-abortionists, the hawks, the doves, the religous, the athiests and the agnostics, etc. etc. etc. And wait until it becomes election time. You support Candidate A and all of the supporters of otehr candidates will pounce.

As to your point about Moveon, etc. The Republicans use every faction they can to go after anyone remotly liberal or Democrat. They use the collective mass of their "base" from the center to the fringes to go after their opposition to build the critical mass to beat the Democrats and all progressive movement.

So being graceful all of the time just doesn't work. Look what being mild-mannered got Daschle.

I'm not saying we need to become as mean and nasty as the right wing. But we can't be nebbishes -- nor should groups like Moveon be labled as "too extremist" or disassociated from. Moveon represents a significant segment of the grass-roots.

[LittleClarkie]

33. Hello, and welcome to life on an internet message board

I get bitch slapped on a regular basis for being a Kerry supporter. "Thank you, may I have another?" (slap!)

Don't take it so seriously. Just post your thoughts, try not to get personal with your comments, and let the chips (or chimps) fall where they may.

[ieoeja]

37. Do we want the job? Or do we want the issues?

Your strategy might be great for getting a President elected. But it doesn't do squat about making the changes we want.

"But you have to get elected before you can make the changes."

You can either seek to be a president who leads this country in the direction we want. Or you can be a president who will do whatever he believes the people already want.

The goal isn't to get a D in the White House, it's to do what is best for this country. The first step in doing that is educating the American public about the other dipshits who are either clueless or only out to do what is right for themselves at the expense of this country.

[XScharlie]

42. great final question.

Do we want a guy in the WH who will appoint more Souter's or more Rehnquist's??

Hmmmm...

A guy who will push social legislation for domestic policy?

I'll take a Mark Warner who will enact policies to help real Americans.

[ieoeja]

45. Mark Warner won't do shit ...

... if the American public doesn't support it. Or he won't be in office long if he does.

[XScharlie]

50. How about Mark Warner?

You guys like him? I think he's excellent.

[mzteris]

41. newbies

are ALWAYS suspect - regardless of what the post.

Not everyone will agree with you on every thing. Some will agree on some of what you say and some will agree on other points. It's the nature of the beast.

Look around and try and find the common ground before being too "contrary", ya know?

Welcome -

not much more than a newbie myself......

[LittleClarkie]

44. But newbies are not to be called out

and this thread here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2029396

Is just mean-spirited.

[jonnyblitz]

58. but you missed his RW rant before he edited it to change

what it meant..it was BLATANTLY homophobic as hell, a few of us saw it before it was edited, thus our harsh remarks in that thread. I Know you know which thread because YOU posted in it.

[underpants]

47. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[dave502d]

48. XScharlie,Welcome to DU. n/t

[graywarrior]

52. Welcome to DU. You gotta make your bones here.

It's kinda like hazing...shouldn't be that way, but there you have it.

[LittleClarkie]

54. It's an "internets" thing

Even though we're trying to solve the problems of the world here, it's still the internets.

[LSK]

53. what was CONTROVERSIAL about Kerry???

All the swift boat stuff was baseless. So what else was so controversial about Kerry as a candidate??? I thought he was more of the under the radar type of guy. And he didnt win.

ps: Welcome to DU, there are thousands of people here, so you are bound to find people who dont agree with you.

[ElectroPrincess]

55. I would like to make a suggestion ...

It would be nice if the rules would discourage these "DU ate my shoe! :cry: TYPE THREADS.

By their very nature, they encourage flame fests.

This is a board of over 60,000 people. If, or more likely "When" someone irritates you, use the IGNORE button.

But please don't assume that *everybody* doesn't like you or DU (a humongous message board) behaves a CERTAIN WAY?

[Midlodemocrat]

60. Locking.

The original poster has been banned.

Thank you.

DU Moderator.