Sirotablog: DLC helps spread claim that 'progressives destroyed America'

[flpoljunkie]

http://www.workingforchange.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=EAF73B35-9903-A67D-D4CD06995808AC7D

Sirotablog

Real-world wisdom from outside the beltway.
8.24.05

DLC helps spread claim that 'progressives destroyed America'

There is a case to be made that Democrats should go on Fox News, even if it is a right-wing network, because the network blasts its content to the general public. But there is no case to be made that any non-right-wing lunatic should take part in an event at the fringe-conservative Heritage Foundation entitled "Did the Progressives Destroy America?" Unlike a Fox News show where you are speaking to potentially swing voters, there is no "general public" audience at this event - it is an event designed to perpetuate among the Washington, D.C. insider establishment the worst right-wing dishonesty. Any participation by our side helps legitimize this nonsense. Yet, incredibly, the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) is headlining the event.

That's right, Will Marshall - President of the DLC's Orwellian-labeled "Progressive Policy Institute" - is lending his name to the event and taking part. I guess we shouldn't be surprised - this is the same Will Marshall who calls Iraq War critics "anti-American." Sure, Marshall will disingenuously argue that he is there to "debate" the issue. But he's been in Washington long enough to know exactly what he's doing: deliberately helping to legitimize the worst right-wing lies. If there was ever a question as to whether the DLC is actively trying to undermine Democrats and the progressive movement in general, there shouldn't be anymore. The answer is, yes they are.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Elidor]

6. You didn't expect any of them to show up, did you?

The particular one you called out has no set defense of Marshall. All that person can do is point out that we need the DLC to keep fucking us in the ass, because at least they'll lube us properly first, but those republicans won't even be that gentle.

[GoreDean2008]

53. DLC More Right-Wing Than Bush Sr's Foreign Policy Team

Look at Iraq.

When Bush and his neocons proposed the invasion of Iraq, Brent Scowcroft, Bush Sr's National Security Advisor, immediately wrote a Wall Street Journal Column, "Don't Attack Saddam," which opposed the invasion of Iraq for the reasons that we are seeing now. James Baker, Bush Sr's Secretary of State who later masterminded the stealing of the 2000 election from Al Gore, also opposed the war without the international support. Later, Scowcroft and Baker backed down little bit publicly, but at the beginning they appeared to be honest and sincere about their assessment of Bush Jr's Iraq invasion plan.

The DLC Democrats, on the other hand, didn't even have that kind of honesty and sincerity at all. From the beginning, they almost blindedly endorsed Bush Jr's cavalier military misadventure, knowing or having reasons to know (since Bill and Hillary were in the White House for 8 years) that it will be a disaster for our country, only because they thought that supporting the invasion will be politically advantageous for them. Their only hairsplitting distinction without difference was that Bush did not seek much international support, but that was just a political lipservice.

I always ask myself how these DLC Democrats are worse than some conservative Republicans in terms of intelligence and morality. The DLC is more dangerous than some Republicans.

[Elidor]

54. Indeed, the DLC are quite hawkish

Witness my post from last night:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2033129

[ElectroPrincess]

64. "The DLC is more dangerous than some Republicans."

You got that right! And may I add that the DLC is also more duplicitous and conniving, in that, they are already "in the know" with regard to the day to day functioning of the Democratic Party.

It hurts *much more* (like being gutted!) on a personal level when "one of your own" figuratively stabs you in your political back.

Am I getting a feeling or somewhat of a visual here? :hi:

[Lindsay]

2. The DLC

can bite me.

[gasperc]

3. is the DLC infiltrated with GOP operatives

what the fuck

[AntiCoup2K4]

12. Yes they are

The afore mentioned Will Marshall is a PNAC signator. His "PPI" division of DLC is nothing but a slightly whitewashed version of the PNAC doctrine. Will the shill recently held a "progressive" policy :puke: seminar with one Thomas Donelly, who is the credited author of the PNAC manifesto and Mein Kampf of the 21st Century "Rebuilding America's Defenses". You know, the same document that calls for "a new Pearl Harbor" in order to implement an agenda of global fascism.

Then there is Marshall Whitman, whose resume includes just about every right wing organization you can think of. Christian Coalition. Heritage Foundation. You name it. I believe he also worked for John McCain for a while.

If these guys are Democrats, I'm Hillary Clinton! :eyes:

[gasperc]

15. rienforces the let it happen on purpose theories

especially the poster earlier going on and on about able danger and the "real" cover up. Which seems to be that, yeah we know this ATTA guy and some others are linked with OBL so let's just see what they'll do and when they do we'll use it as leverage to strike Iraq and 5 other countries.
Mush to their surprise, thier go ahead and let's see what they'll do led to the murder of over 3000 people, the destruction of billions worth of property, damaging both the airline and various other industries as well as punching a hole in the federal budget large enough to fit the moon in.

plausible

[SeanQ]

23. WHOA, WTF!?!?!?! Will Marshall is a PNAC signator?!?!

These guys are passing themselves off as Democrats? Can't we (DNC/Dean) do something about it? Can we kick them out of the party?!?

Please provide a link to more information on Marshall and Whitman, backing your claims up. The DLC already makes me :puke: , but this would help explain why. And would help a lot of people understand why the DLC does not represent real Democrats, liberal or moderate!

[MGKrebs]

28. Not only that, they are funded by right wingers.

Enjoy:
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/demleadcoun.php

[krkaufman]

29. See this alternate Right-Web link, of the various signers of PNAC papers

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/charts/pnac-chart.htm

[OzarkDem]

36. They're actually very small

I doubt their staff is more than 5-9 people. They've become nothing more than paid disruptors for the RNC.

There are other think tanks doing a better job these days, including the Center for American Progress - run by Clinton's former COS, John Podesta.

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/c.biJRJ8OVF/b.8473/

[flpoljunkie]

40. Good point about Podesta's CAP, but why would Hillary sign up with DLC?

Just do not see this as a smart move for her getting the Democratic party nomination. Perhaps the Clintons are isolated from the grass and netroots if they think joining Hillary Clinton at the hip with the DLC is the way to promote a potential Hilllary candidacy in 2008.

[flpoljunkie]

44. Sirota just finished a two year stint at the Center for American Progress.

[tsuki]

43. Hey, Hil.

:hi:

[blm]

42. DLC, far left and even anarchists have GOP operatives in their midst.

.

[bloom]

45. It's one thing to have operatives who have infiltrated...

It's quite another to be led by them.

[blm]

46. Some of the staunchest Dem centrists don't even belong to the DLC, while

there are some DLCers who maintain strong progressive records.

Can't label a whole organization by the acts and words of a few.

There were a number of DLC members who voted against CAFTA, and a number of nonDLCers who voted FOR it.

It's just not a lockstep organization.

[bloom]

47. When their spokesperson calls people who are against the war

and against torture "anti-American". When that is what is posted on their website - I think it's time for any respectable, America-loving Democrat to leave the organization. And I think it's reasonable for DUers to encourage that action by being clear about their intolerance of the organization.

The DLC has made it clear what the DLC stands for - what their position is - and it is the opposite of mine.

[blm]

48. I think they are crazy to have that crap on their site, but, I also see

that reactionaries on ANY issue right or left are harmful to the party unity. Some Dems are pissed off at Dean for encouraging pro-life Democrats to run for office and are having the same reaction to Dean...they won't have anything to do with the party.


I just think that if you're going to CLAIM to be the real big tent party, you're going to have to allow for a wide range of opinion on issues.

They deserve complaints and a response from those who disagree, but, even the worst of the DLCers is still a far sight better than any Republican lawmaker.

(Except Al From) As far as I am concerned, he's a walking disaster and should be permanently stripped of ANY Dem spokesman status. He's a true cancer on party unity.

[PATRICK]

50. Just a rotten oxymoron organization

When you pare it down their only worth is in the dollars they seem to have to dole out. Anyone can come out with a compromising, "reasonable" approach to government. In actual words, practice and political effect they are the Black Death, rats covered with fleas covered with germs.

PNAC, corporate ties, political ties and my special favorite- what's in their personal; bank account and how did it get there? Teresa LaPore typifies in practice what the "New" democrat, is a coat not quite turned, a vision exalting in murk and myopia. An elan full of arthritic spite and old dragons squatting on their hoards.

They get their strength form getting top dem politicians featured in the organizational leadership and riding on any success from below, preferably weak sell-outs and ineffectual tightrope walkers. The actual problem is in the few very non-leader, non-pol grousers like marchall and From. A real DLC would look to itself and purge, remake and look forward.

An imitation centrist thinks that means acting like the radical RW minority and engage in laughable forgeries of their vices such as their latest favorite- projection of their own crimes and vice upon their enemies. But more than the RW which treads more softly on eliminating its sane reps, the DLC is the serpent seeking its own tail.

Despite warnings from Hillary about just such a tack her position and her words have had no effect whatsoever on the despicable antics within. This is a very poor forecast of her leadership capabilities in running for President. Obama rejected their inclusion of his name on their 'success" list, a deserved slap which should have had more effect.

When the DLC therefore decides to act like its name then someone might take them more seriously. The kind of attention they are pouting for now truly invites a purge, their last final rending of the party and the nation they have so badly served.

The names of the offenders is a very short list and mostly unelected camp followers. The respected elected names signing onto the overall sham is a damned shame.

[electropop]

66. The DLC is an infiltration of the GOP into the Democratic Party.

Can't Howard dean trademark the term "Democratic" and stop the DLC from hijacking it? :think:

[glitch]

4. but but progressives are splitting the party,,,divided we fall blah blah

bite me.

I agree with Sirota.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

5. Kick! N/T

[Al-CIAda]

7. .

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

8. ...

[bvar22]

9. The Corporate OWNED DLC...

...will work to ensure that if their Corporate Owned candidate cannot win a particular seat, that seat will go to a Corporate Owned Republican instead of a Democrat!!!!

The DLC has NO loyalty to the Democratic Party!
The DLC's ONLY allegiance is to their Corporate Financiers, even if that means electing REPUBLICANS!!!



The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[xxqqqzme]

10. Howard needs 2 declare war on these

dino-fascists - they have certainly declared war on the Democratic Party's base.

[PassingFair]

56. I agree. Howard, if you're listening....

the iron is HOT!

[ClassWarrior]

11. These people are truly scum...

It's so obvious that they're a nominally covert RW operation.

NGU.

[jonnyblitz]

13. I believe many moderate to centrist DEMS would want none

of this. I would "hope" anyways.. :shrug:

[ClassWarrior]

16. You're probably right. The DLC is a small pack of infiltrators...

...charged by their Radical RW puppetmasters with dividing Dems, moderates from Progressives.

NGU.

[chaska]

14. None left standing. First we dispose of the DLC, then the Pugs.

[paineinthearse]

17. To paraphrase John Dean's "there's a cancer in the Presidency"....

There is a cancer in the party, and it is the DLC.

We must do all we can to get rid of this neo-fascist tumor, starting by insuring state members of the DNC are not members, better, to insure we elect progressives true to the party's core values.

[ClassWarrior]

18. Support Progressive Majority and Wellstone Action...

They're building a "farm team" of smart, active Progressive candidates.

NGU.

[PassingFair]

57. Don't forget DFA n/t

[PATRICK]

67. Actually there is a cancer inside the general problem

namely a clique of advisers organizers and functionaries. Some very well intentioned and popularly elected officials hold high offices in the organization. Few of them are part of the specific trashing problem but typically they have them shackled by impotence to the policy of letting the Froms and Marshalls destroy the party. The general problem is best illustrated by the negative effect it has had on the DLC itself. All its centrist and "newness" wisdom is not even Chamberlain style accommodation. It is a interior wedge and an ax against anything good and powerful about the party. If liberals were to attend Communist party meetings like PNAC Marshall attended the Heritage Foundation trashing bash we would hear a lot about it in all likelihood. Hillary's public admonitions to the organization she holds high title in cannot rein them in, or if this IS reining them in they need to be purged like poison and the shop closed.

The practical political wisdom is bunk by their very words, deeds, connections and results. I consider it absolute proof unless the organization is de-trolled at least, that none of the proud naifs or opportunists sharing official status with the DINOs are fit to be president. That is the minimum, and that is the absolute boundary of our strained and abused charity(for the good of the nation in crisis).

[Carrion]

19. Did I miss a meeting......

When did America get "destroyed"....?

[wryter2000]

22. I was wondering the same thing

And how the fuck did liberals ruin America when we haven't been in charge of America since, Lord, I can't remember when. Did we ever run this country?

[Cha]

52. It's just Orwellian speak..

Smear anyway you can ..just because it has nothing to do with reality doesn't stop those who will stop at nothing to set the agenda.

So it is our task to put to bed the "unstoppabullshit"!

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

20. The DLC is one of...

...The best things the GOP has going for it.

[mpendragon]

21. progressive initiatives that hurt America

- ending slavery
- ending child labor
- vote for former slaves and native americans and women
- ending segregation and Jim Crow laws
- fighting poverty
- social security/medicare
- overtime pay protection for workers
- putting a man on the moon
- supporting public education for all
- slowing nuclear proliferation by working with other nations
- making real contributions to Middle East peace

... and many, many more horrible travesties for which the american public has not yet received so much as an apology. Thank God the nightmare has ended and rational people are in control to undo some of these terrible things.

*Progressive initiatives were not only undertaken by the Democratic party . . . historically

[mom cat]

25. Ending the war in Viet Nam and now...Questioning voting fraud!

Clearly, standing up for the constitution, the planet and basic human rights are ruinious to some so called Democrats!

[SlipperySlope]

24. Remember - "Democrat" does not equal "Progressive"

I don't know what is more important, and I think many of us are in the same boat.

Do you support Dems despite not meeting progressive standards because they are the best we can hope for right now?

Or, do you reject dems to stick to the ideal?

What do we want:

Non-progressive dems winning?
Progressive dems losing?

I know, I know, same old question, same old debate, same old looking for the third path.

[flpoljunkie]

27. The base, that is us, must demand more from our party. And let them

know when they fall short--the bankruptcy bill is a prime example of Democrats not standing up to stop this egregious giveaway to banks and credit card companies--which they have stopped, in the past, by the way. Why did they let it go through this time--you have to ask yourself. Could it be that too many of our Dems have been corrupted by the same special interest, the banks and credit card companies,as the Rethugs.

Without the committed "liberal" groups that make up the core of the Democratic party, the party cannot win. The DLC is intimidated by the Democratic netroots folks like us-and well they should be. We are the base--without which the party cannot win.

[SlipperySlope]

31. Bankruptcy act was a sell-out, regardless of "progressive" standards.

The bankruptcy act was a sell-out by all involved, red and blue, and I don't see it as lining up along the lines of conservative or liberal or left-wing or right-wing or progressive or anything.

The slime in DC just decided that the banker were more important then the people.

I BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD FACE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS; THAT INCLUDES THE CONSEQUENCES OF BAD LENDING DECISIONS.

Apparently, the banks feel otherwise, and want to be able to make consequence-free bad decisions.

Screw them all.

[SlipperySlope]

26. Do you agree with Sirota or Kos?

Hmmm.. Ok, the link is to Sirota, who says the DLC shouldn't be attending.

But Sirota is linking to Kos, who is conflicted. I think Kos has a point.

I also think that Marini has a good point, even if it has been framed in negative language. The progressive movement was disruptive to the principles that stood before, but that doesn't mean it should be described as "destructive".

[flpoljunkie]

30. With Sirota. I am not conflicted, with this kind of drivel from Marshall

Will Marshall:

"Such attitudes aren't likely to allay voters' doubts about Democrats' resolve to make them safer from terrorist attacks. Neither are demands by left-wing Democrats and the anti-war group, MoveOn.org, that the United States withdraw its troops from Iraq. Rather than offering fresh fodder to Karl Rove, the party would do better to heed Sens. Joe Biden, John Kerry, Evan Bayh, and Hillary Rodham Clinton, who have set an example for responsible, progressive patriotism. They have balanced blunt criticism of the Bush administration's blunders with concrete suggestions for relieving the strain on U.S. forces in Iraq, broadening international support for the Iraqi government, and speeding up the pace of reconstruction."

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253472&kaid=124&subid=307

Essentially parroting the Bush administration line is hardly "progressive" patriotism. Why does he even use this word? It sounds silly in this context. Does he think we will be fooled into signing on to the DLC agenda--which is, basically, trying to move to the right of the Bush neocons by enlarging the armed forces by another 100,000 soldiers?

How many more Americans and Iraqis are going to have to die in Iraq for the creation of an Islamic state, allied with Iran? I think Paul Hackett has come to realize this, as evidence in his recent appearance on Bill Maher.

"Right now it's not working. The country is in chaos. There is a civil war going on. It hasn't gotten any better in a year and a half. News flash. War's over. Let's get 'em home." - Paul Hackett on Bill Maher

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/08/20.html#a4537

[Q]

32. Strange that the DLC calls Bush's illegal acts "Blunders"...

I can't believe that the DLCers mentioned (Clinton, Kerry, etc) would actually brag about brusing Bush with their mealy mouthed attacks on his 'blunders'. Lying our nation into war is a blunder? Election fraud is a blunder? Paying the 'free press' tax dollars to spread Bush propaganda is a blunder? Obstruction of justice in the investigation of 9-11 is a blunder?

Is this really the best our party can do?

[jonnyblitz]

37. near 2000 dead for "Operation Islamic theocracy" is a bit more

than an "oooops". geesh.

and that isn't counting the who knows how many dead Iraqi's.

yeah...OOOOOPS...just a silly blunder. :crazy:

[jonnyblitz]

34. I hope this is on C-SPAN because I was thinking the same thing

you mention in your post though I tend to lean towards Sirota's view based on everything else I have heard/read about in regards to this subject.

[MadisonProgressive]

33. That's it - the DLC is officially the ENEMY!

[OzarkDem]

35. DLC can't be trusted by centrist Dems

Their credibility with centrist and conservative Dems is shot, gone, non-existent.

[despairing optimist]

38. un-Democratic Lowlife Cowards

They are destroying America by preventing a significant opposition party from forming. Through the DLC's collusion with the Republican right wing, the three branches of government so painstakingly conceived by the Founders are in grave danger of falling into the service of an extremist, reactionary, antidemocratic faction that has existed in this country in various forms since before its creation.

It isn't enough to shame the DLC. It and its supporters should be expelled, or failing that, progressive Democrats and anyone else concerned with the republic's welfare should leave the so-called Democratic party en masse and form one truly worthy of the name. The hour's getting late.

[Catrina]

51. Couldn't agree more

It seemed to be such a struggle for so long to find who was representing real Democrats in the party. Those who tried, like Conyers, got little support. Now, the reason has been identified, imo. I feel betrayed. This is the rightwing and it was they who stopped the counting after the election. But they didn't count on the people's anger and sense of betrayal lasting as long as it did, and will.

The DLC is the enemy, and I agree, should be expelled. They have a party, we don't as long as they are a part of it. And if it becomes necessary to form a new party, then let them destroy the word Progressive, there is still the word Liberal, waiting to be used proudly again.

[LoZoccolo]

39. Should be "Sirota treats progressives like they're gullible".

Subtitle: "Several progressives comply."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4452778

[tsuki]

41. It is a loaded question. They are trying to destroy the term progressive

like they did liberal. Meanwhile, they get us to protect the term Conservative for later resusitation by getting us to call the CONSERVATIVE Cabal, neocons.

[ClintonTyree]

49. Many of us knew this all along..........

and were severely thrashed on and about the head for saying so. This was not that long ago, either. I can remember just last year, leading up to the election, there being a pro/anti DLC debate raging across DU.
If they've infiltrated the supposed highest levels of the Democratic Party there can be no denying that we've plenty of them among ourselves.

[BrklynLiberal]

55. SeanQ did an excellent job of defining the DLC.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2034958

Will Marshall, co-founder of the DLC, is involved in the Project for a New American Century (PNAC). That's right - he is a signatory on documents issued from the same organization founded on the ideals of the likes of Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bolton, Perle and company!

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/marshall/marshall.php
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050221/vest

There are alot of congruencies between DLC and PNAC! You may not like it, but it seems true...

[PassingFair]

58. If the DNC signaled that they were going to cut the DLC loose...

I would triple my donations.
Are you listening, Howard?

[stevietheman]

59. Kick him, and Zell Miller, out of the party... they're perfect Repugs. n/t

n/t

[Dugor]

60. DLC is a front for the RW. We must stop them.

DLC must be stop if our party is going to have a chance in 2008.

[flpoljunkie]

61. Welcome to DU, Dugor.

DLC has sold out the core principles of the Democratic party to big business--just like the Rethugs. We cannot be a kindler, gentler party representing big business and expect either to win or to excite the base of our party, who, even though they are disparate groups, believe in economic justice as the guiding principle of our party.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

62. kick n/t

[txaslftist]

63. Shills for the GOP or just behind the times?

In my mind the biggest failing of the DLC is not that they aren't "true" Democrats (whatever that is supposed to mean) or that they "act like Republiklans" (ibid).

The biggest failing they have is they can't keep up with current events. They are suggesting ideas and policies designed to bring Democrats more in line with what they believe are the majority of Americans, ie- red-blooded, flag waving, Bush fanatics who support the "war effort".

The problem is, that was never the majority of Americans. They misread the meaning of last year's election, they misread the meaning of what the GOP keeps calling its successes, and they are failing to percieve that the Republican "majority", (in reality never more than an uneasy plurality living in uneasy truce with itself) has slipped from majority to minority status.

THey can't even keep up with polls.

They ought to call themselves the DFC. The Democratic Followership Council.

[Al-CIAda]

65. .