The Republicans lost Iraq. . . The Republicans lost Iraq. . .

[DinahMoeHum]

Link:
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2005_08_21_digbysblog_archive.html#112500183676297985

(snip)
I do not believe there is anything the national Democrats can do to change this policy. We have to change the government. Therefore, I think it's in their best interests to begin to define what winning and losing means before the Republicans do. In an e-mail exchange on this subject, reader Charles Saeger suggested:

Change:
"We cannot win the war in Iraq and staying could rouse terrorist sentiment against us"

to:
"The Republicans lost the war in Iraq and our continued presence is rousing terrorist sentiment against us."

I happen to think this has the benefit of being true. The Bush administration lost the war before it began because it was unwinnable as a purely American/British venture. He didn't mishandle it. He didn't misjudge. He lost it.

I know it's unpalatable to use their frame, but I think it's pretty ingrained in the American psyche. We are the ultimate "win-lose" culture. Because of that I believe it is in our political interest and the country's security interests to frame this as a Republican loss. Terrorism is still a threat. Nukes in the hands of bad actors are a very, very serious threat. We are economically and militarily weakened by Bush's response to 9/11.
(snip)
(snip)
...The GOP has proven in real time, right before our eyes, that they want to start wars but they don't have a fucking clue how to win them. That needs to be reiterated over and over again to the American public. If it sinks in we might just be able to find our way out of this ridiculous national security paradigm we've been in ever since the wingnuts asked "who lost China" back in 48. It created Vietnam and it created Iraq. Enough.
(snip)

much more...

:kick:

[OrlandoGator]

1. I thought the Clenis did it.

n/t

[Nikki Stone 1]

2. Eight years ago, Clinton read tea leaves that said Bush would lose in Iraq

So he planned all his policies accordingly.:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:


"The GOP has proven in real time, right before our eyes, that they want to start wars but they don't have a fucking clue how to win them. "

Oh yeah! right on target.

[kenny blankenship]

3. Very Good Call

Time to pronounce Bush's War dead and over.

[electropop]

9. Perfect re-framing!

It turns mealy mush into crystal clear and devastating.

[kenny blankenship]

14. We should also say

He GAMBLED LARGE and lost big.
This was surely the most reckless and risky action in American foreign policy since...since fucking ever.
Maybe some historian can think of something from the 19th century that an American President committed us to that was so ill-advised along with being so unbelievably rash. Vietnam turned out to be an ill-advised errand but there was nothing so rash about the way we became entangled there. It was little by little. This business in Iraq was like a little child all at once stomping its foot and screaming I will SO invade! You can't stop me!

The only thing I can think of from American history that compares with this unnecessary and stupidly conceived war in Iraq is not actually a war with a foreign country at all, but the decision of the southern states to secede from the Union and (S.Carolina's decision) to fire on Ft. Sumter.
Rash, precipitate, and above all STOOPID.

Bush's failure in Iraq is all of those things too, and the utter failure of this war, which is so plainly George W. Bush's baby by self-insemination, stems directly from the flaws of his own character. All the stupidity, blindness and violence of his character which he has hidden from domestic view under his Church-going robes and his blather of "compassionate conservativism" has come screaming to the foreground in his foreign policy. His foreign policy can be summed up by the terms "perpetual war" and "world domination by mass murder", or if you want it in a nugget, by one term: Fallujah.

Character counts, they say and I agree! Let's have no more murderous idiots for President.

[Infomaniac]

4. I think we need to keep pointing out...

how much lipstick the Repukes keep applying to this pig.

[BikeWriter]

5. Recommended topic for Greatest Page. Superb reasoning!

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Perfect logic. True. Nominated

I can add nothing. This is GOOD STUFF.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

7. Poor planning based on neo-con ideology

From the Karpinski thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1724018

General Shinseki briefed Rumsfeld that "he can't win this war, if they insist on invading Iraq, he can't win this war with less than 300,000 soldiers." Rumsfeld reportedly ordered Shinseki to go back and find a way to do this with 125,000 to 130,000, but Shinseki came back and said they couldn't do the job with that number. "What did Rumsfeld do?" Karpinski asked rhetorically. "If you can't agree with me, I'm going to find somebody who can. He made Shinseki a lame duck, for all practical purposes, and brought in Schoomaker. And Schoomaker got it. He said, 'Oh yes sir, we can do this with 125,000.'"

Bad planning based on fairy-tale ideology and assumptions.

It's absolutely true to say that the Repubs lost the war due to their arrogance.

[Uncle Joe]

8. I believe the con stands for con-artist n/t

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

10. Sorry, meant neo-con idiotology

nm

[txaslftist]

11. The Rovian rejoinder (wet blanket alert)

"The Republicans didn't lose in Iraq. If we'd been permitted to, we could have stabilized the country in no more than two more years. The insurgency was in its death throes. It was only people like Cindy Sheehan and her leftist supporters who made the great 'Murkan people start to doubt themselves. Like Jane Fonda before her, Cindy Sheehan lost the war in Iraq. Certainly our troops had no fault in that loss, as they are the greatest troops in the world."

"Our obligation was to stay the course in Iraq and stabilize it, because the people of Irag so desperately needed democracy. But instead we left prematurely, under left-wing, democratic pressure, leaving the poor Iraqis to become the Islamic Fundamentalist state it is today." -Karl Rove (or some politician advised by him, cir. October, 2008)

[kenny blankenship]

15. Against Military Advice They "Did Iraq" on the cheap

ensuring the failure to secure and stabilize the country swiftly against resistance fighters of the old regime and against the instigators of a religious-ethnic-sectional civil war. They insisted for obvious political reasons, that a small force could secure the country and that the Iraqi population would be so happy to see us, that an even smaller one (less than 50,000 troops) could do the job just as well.

Against international legal advice, they invaded a sovereign nation without the justification of self-defense or of forestalling aggression at the request of a neighboring state, thus ensuring the spread of an armed resistance to our occupation and losing the color of international legitimacy.

Against military advice, against legal advice, and against international opinion and against the opposition of the United Nations Security Council, George Bush GAMBLED with the prestige of this country, with the stability of the Middle East region, and with the lives of American soldiers. He did what he was going to do--EXACTLY the way he wanted to do it-- and throughout it all, he listened to NOBODY.

Bush LOST Iraq. He fucking blew it and he has NO ONE to blame for it but himself.

[berni_mccoy]

12. One Step Further

The Republicans Lost *THEIR* War in Iraq.

It was ILLEGAL, ELLECTIVE and UNNECESSARY
and they LIED to get the Dems in Congress and the American People to support it.

[Nothing Without Hope]

13. I expect that the attack on Iran by the US and/or Israel with US support

will happen soon, maybe within the month. And there might also be a staged MIHOP in the US to bolster support for this new war.

Please read through this thread. In addition to the earlier posts, I've posted a very long additional bunch of info at the end in reply #42:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2037110
Thread title: All the pieces are on the board, folks....time to get worried

[ChiciB1]

16. I Wonder How He'll Be Walking When They Tell Him

the NEWS! He's simply their "BOY" anyway! I simply CAN NOT stand the way he walks! Watch him sometimes, it's actually a STRUT!!

IMPEACH, IMPEACH, IMPEACH!!! Out, Out Damn Spot!!!