Need some opinions on the Able Danger story...

[DemsUnited]

Saw the end of Hardball while waiting for Countdown, listened to Lt. Colonel Schaffer and his lawyer. Tweety was a putz, missing all kinda good question opportunities.

Some of the main points:

1. Believe the lawyer said there's around a dozen folks now willing to testify about Able Danger program.

2. Schaffer described what appears to be a kind of "Fuzzy Math" approach to profiling & behavior patterning, but claimed approach still identified 8 persons , 3-4 of them later turned out to be terrorists though Schaffer didn't say who they were or what they did, other than Atta. This part of discussion rather confusing, at least to me.

3. Schaffer/lawyer raised question as to why Able Danger was shut down about four months before 9/11.

4. Schaffer/lawyer wanted to know why Able Danger records were destroyed in 2001.

5. The whole why didn't any Able Danger stuff get into the 9/11 report.

Don't know what to think, here. First wrote the story off as crackpot, now wondering what kinda fire is under the smoke.

Thoughts?

[swag]

1. I have found the remarks at this site pretty interesting:

http://www.warandpiece.com

[DemsUnited]

3. Many thanks for link. Great synopsis, links & commentary by Ms. Rosen

Site now in my bookmarks.

[ewagner]

2. What bothers me most

is that the military was conducting investigations on civilians.

What I think happened is that when they tried to pass the information to the FBI it was recognized as violation of the law and nobody in the FBI wanted to touch it with a ten foot pole.

I think Schaeffer(sp) thought he was looking for terrorists but the people he reported to had other things in mind....generally, I think Able Danger was an illegal operation because of who was running it. If FBI had been running it from the beginning, I think 9/11 would have never happened.

[stillcool]

4. I'm thinking there's fire there...

"Crossing the Rubicon' had some interesting data on this and Kristen Breitweiser's post below as well. Too many questions. Maybe the purges at the CIA and NSA will benefit the truth?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kristen-breitweiser/enabling-danger-part-one_b_5951.html

[Emit]

16. Where in "Crossing the Rubicon" does Ruppert refer

to Able Danger, or do you mean he references it in regards to some other or similar info? Just curious. I'm reading it now and wanted to know what part you were referring to here. Thanks in advance.

[stillcool]

19. ..No part in particular...

its been a while since I've read it, but in recollection there are instances where our intelligence services were aware of his and others presence in this country.

[Emit]

21. Gotcha--I thought that's what you meant, because, yes,

Ruppert does have a lot of details about Atta and others---where's the outrage with all that other info that's been ignored to date?

There are many incidences and much documentation pre-9/11 that, if reported on by MSM, could cause as much ruckus. A good example is why no inquiries into the "put-options" just before 9/11?

These people on the right who are suddenly outraged by this Able Danger news are obviously not interested in seeking truth---they just want more excuses for blaming Clinton and destroying the left.(WorldNetDaily is pushing it big time, and they are the ones who've been bent on destroying Clinton since their inception--some think the only reason the WND came about was to destroy Clinton, as if Clinton is the symbol for the secular left)

[EVDebs]

20. Indirect reference. Cheney is in the 'control' room so to speak

We're only hearing about this now because the rightwingnuts want to point to Clenis as a distraction.

[bribri16]

5. Is it true that neither Clarke or Clinton knew about this group?

If it is, we have a renegade military intel operation on our hands and who know what it has morphed into.

[EVDebs]

8. JFK surely didn't condone Operation Northwoods. The JCS is that renegade

Group you're speaking about. I believe, as Fletcher Prouty did, in the Secret Team or secret government. They're too over the top making their war plans to realize what the big picture really is.

[seemslikeadream]

10. General Pete Schoomaker blocked it from getting to Clinton

robertpaulsen (1000+ posts) Thu Aug-25-05 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. Able Danger is a Pandora's Box that will blow up in the RW's face.
Re-open the 9/11 investigation? BRING IT ON! Here's why:

So the responsibility for stopping DIA program Able Danger, which had Identified Atta and 3 other hijackers and linked them to 56 other al-Queda terrorists overseas, has been laid at the feet of Bill Clinton--except he and Richard Clarke were never told about it at all.

That's right. Bill Clinton was never told about Able Danger and the ID of Atta because Richard Clarke was never told about AD. How do I know? He never wrote about it in his book, nor did he testify about it's existence before the 9-11 Commission!

You see Richard Clarke was known for being obsessed with Osama Bin Laden and HE was the guy the neo-con moles did not want to find out about Atta and the gang. Schoomaker and the neo-cons knew telling the FBI would inform Clarke and then Mr. Laser Beam himself, President of the United State William Jefferson Clinton, would have gotten involved--and the Pearl Harbor-type attack would never take place (the neo-cons talked about the need for a Pearl Harbor-type attack before the PNAC Plan would be accepted by the American people--so when one presented itself, they let it happen).

General Pete Schoomaker, who were later heavily rewarded by the neo-cons in the Bush Administration, blocked the upward motion of the DIA information by having Shaffer and Philpott meet with Pentagon lawyers opinions--lawyers who were rubberstamping ridiculous legal opinions to carry out the neo-con plan. These certain people were neo-cons in the Clinton Administration, covertly carrying out the PNAC plan to let a Pearl Harbor-type attack occur so Iraq and 6 other countries could be invaded.


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/24/124834/678

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1727804#1727914

[TreasonousBastard]

12. Schoonmaker was involved? A lot of things...

are falling into place now.

Too much tinfoil to deal with, including the "7 Days in May" stories floating around, but these scumbags are pretty much capable of anything. And, they brought this prick out of retirement for a reason.

I'm afraid that the truth, if and when when it comes out, just may be as bad as I'm afraid it is.

[seemslikeadream]

13. Genersl Byrnes relieved of his command by Schoomaker?

"Gen. Byrnes, one of 11 four-star Army generals, was nearing the end of a three-year term at U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command when Gen. Peter Schoomaker, the Army chief of staff, relieved him of command," reported the Washington Times.

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=70&contentid=2582&page=2

[TreasonousBastard]

15. Whoa! I didn't...

really believe the adultery thing, but now stories like this are coming out of the woodwork.

Truth is often stranger than fiction, but Conspiracy Planet is well-named. I go with Rumsfeld just being petty getting rid of this guy before all this talk of nuclear blasts and junta theories.

Sumpin's up, though, and this prick Schoomaker is their tool. When the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs' job is open, there's dozens of four-stars twisting every arm in DC to get the job, and they had to drag this guy out of retirement? Something stinks there.

[EVDebs]

6. More disinformation getting spread as intel 'failure'

Rather than concentrating on why the Bush Administration spiked Bin Laden investigations

FBI AND US SPY AGENTS SAY BUSH SPIKED BIN LADEN PROBES BEFORE 11 SEPTEMBER
The Guardian (London)
Wednesday, November 7, 2001
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=103&row=4

more attention should be paid on why the Able Danger operation was shut down in early 2001. Are the cookie crumbs leading to the neocons in the WH and at the DOD's OSP and elsewhere causing some sleepless nights ?

This 9-11 story was always about political failure, not intelligence failure. It includes willful intelligence manipulation to boot.

LIHOP and MIHOP becomes more and more the only credible theory using Occam's Razor.

[Emit]

17. Good question. When, why and who shut down Able Danger?

Daily Kos had a post today--don't have a link--but what I remember from what I read is that it was canceled in 2001 by the House Select Committee and Porter Goss is(was?) Chairman of that committee. Here's the gist of it:

According to this Kean-Hamilton statement on Able Danger(PDF), Congress, particularly the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence canceled the Able Danger program:
http://www.9-11pdp.org/press/2005-08-12_pr.pdf

Quote:
On October 21, 2003, Philip Zelikow, the executive director of the 9/11 Commission, two senior Commission staff members, and a representative of the executive branch, met at Bagram Base, Afghanistan, with three individuals doing intelligence work for the Department of Defense. One of the men, in recounting information about al Qaeda’s activities in Afghanistan before 9/11, referred to a DOD program known as ABLE DANGER. He said this program was now closed, but urged Commission staff to get the files on this program and review them, as he thought the Commission would find information about al Qaeda and Bin Ladin that had been developed before the 9/11 attack. He also complained that Congress, particularly the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI), had effectively ended a human intelligence network he considered valuable.



Poter Goss has been the Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence since 1997:

http://web.archive.org/web/20011003214232/http://intelligence.house.gov/

[seemslikeadream]

7. ABLE DANGER

http://www.gsnmagazine.com.nyud.net:8090/images/aug_05/atta.jpg

Senate May Hold Hearings on Able Danger, Info Sharing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1727804






DO THE MATH

THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A MILITARY ORDER
http://www.bushflash.com/buddy.html

[EVDebs]

9. Codenames, book by Wm. Arkin, may be of some help

http://www.codenames.org/

The book even mentions how FEMA will be used to enact (unconstitutionally) martial law. Lovely bunch of militarists we have running the show.

Is Bush starting to resemble Capt. Queeg ?

[seemslikeadream]

11. Put a uniform on him

:hi:

[wli]

14. protected heroin trafficking n/t

[seemslikeadream]

18. Third Source Backs 'Able Danger' Claims About Atta

Third Source Backs 'Able Danger' Claims About Atta
Saturday, August 27, 2005

WASHINGTON — A third person has now come forward to verify claims made by a military intelligence unit that a year before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, it had information showing that lead hijacker Mohamed Atta (search) and other terrorists were identified as being in the United States.

J.D. Smith, a defense contractor who claims he worked on the technical side of the unit, code-named "Able Danger" (search), told reporters Friday that he helped gather open-source information (search), reported on government spending and helped generate charts associated with the unit's work. Able Danger was set up in the 1990s to track Al Qaeda activity worldwide.

"I am absolutely positive that he was on our chart among other pictures and ties that we were doing mainly based upon cells in New York City," Smith said.

Smith said data was gathered from a variety of sources, including about 30 or 40 individuals. He said they all had strong Middle Eastern connections and were paid for their information. Smith said Able Danger's photo of Atta was obtained from overseas.
more
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167130,00.html





DO THE MATH

THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A MILITARY ORDER
http://www.bushflash.com/buddy.html

[seemslikeadream]

22. I can't find the New York Post article "Military 'Spied' on Rice."

that this guy is talking about but

http://newsbusters.org/node/720

Today's New York Post (27 August) carries a story by Niles Lathem entitled "Military 'Spied' on Rice." The good news is that the story ran at all. The bad news is the reporter demonstrated a brass-plated ignorance of how the Able Danger program operated.

The lead from the article says, "Cyber-sleuths working for a Pentagon intelligence unit that reportedly identified some of the 9/11 highjackers before the attack were fired by military officals, after they mistakenly pinpointed Secretary of State Rice and other prominent Americans as potential security risks..."


another link
http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/002423.html



DO THE MATH

24 MINUTES

THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A MILITARY ORDER
http://www.bushflash.com/buddy.html

[Emit]

23. It's here but you have to register:

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/52673.htm

[seemslikeadream]

26. Thanks Emit, here it is

:hi:

MILITARY 'SPIED' ON RICE

By NILES LATHEM



August 27, 2005 -- WASHINGTON — Cyber-sleuths working for a Pentagon intelligence unit that reportedly identified some of the 9/11 hijackers before the attack were fired by military officials, after they mistakenly pinpointed Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and other prominent Americans as potential security risks, The Post has learned.
The private contractors working for the counter-terrorism unit Able Danger lost their jobs in May 2000. The firings following a series of analyses that Pentagon lawyers feared were dangerously close to violating laws banning the military from spying on Americans, sources said.

The Pentagon canceled its contract with the private firm shortly after the analysts — who were working on identifying al Qaeda operatives — produced a particularly controversial chart on proliferation of sensitive technology to China, the sources said.

Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, the veteran Army officer who was the Defense Intelligence Agency liaison to Able Danger, told The Post China "had something to do" with the decision to restructure Able Danger.

Sources said the private contractors, using sophisticated computer software that sifts through massive amounts of raw data to establish patterns, came up with a chart of Chinese strategic and business connections in the U.S.

The program wrongly tagged Rice, who at the time was an adviser to then-candidate George W. Bush, and former Defense Secretary William Perry by linking their associations at Stanford, along with their contacts with Chinese leaders, sources said.

The program also spat out scores of names of other former government officials with legitimate ties to China, as well as prominent American businessmen. There was no suggestion that Rice or any of the others had done anything wrong.



A Pentagon official said last night that, while the canned contractors worked for Able Danger, the China project was separate from the counter-terrorism assignment.

The Able Danger work was transferred to another Department of Defense contractor — and the program quietly expired later that year when it was completed, the official said.

The China chart was put together by James Smith, who confirmed yesterday that his contract with the military was canceled and he was fired from his company because the military brass became concerned about the focus on U.S. citizens.

"It was shut down in a matter of hours. The colonel said our service was no longer needed and told me: 'You just ended my career.' "


Smith also claims his team came up with 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta's name and photo in 2000.

http://www.bugmenot.com/view.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nypost.com%2Fnews%2Fnationalnews%2F52673.htm
Account #1
[e-mail]
dediho

[joanski0]

24. I saw one of the headlines on Fox News today

that said that Able Danger mistakenly identified Condi Rice as a security risk. Maybe that's why Condi and the others shut it down.

And as for General Byrnes: At a live news conference yesterday, a reporter asked General Richard Myers why Byrnes was retired and Janis Carpinski just got demoted. The reporter said it leads him to believe that there was something else that Byrnes got retired for. Gen. Myers answer was "Probably". The reporter screamed Can You Elaborate on That? Myers said: Next question.

[seemslikeadream]

25. Gen. Myers answer was "Probably".

:wow: