Year 25 of the Reagan Era: Did you see the Bush train wreck coming?

[omega minimo]

Poll question: Year 25 of the Reagan Era: Did you see the Bush train wreck coming?

......and what did you do about it?

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power."
Benito Mussolini.

“Free enterprise is a rough and competitive game. It is a hell of a lot better than a government monoploy.”
Ronald Reagan
Source:Speech Dec 8, 1972

“I believe that the future is far nearer than most of us would dare hope.”
Reagan 9/24/84

--------------------------------------------------------------
The Writing On The Wall ( the signs of a coming change ... )
--------------------------------------------------------------
"The writing is on the wall" when you can see signs that there is going to be a change. Example: "At that point, the writing was on the wall; we all knew the company was going out of business." The signs pointing to the coming change are "the writing on the wall"; they are clear and visible to you if you look for them. Example: "Some people chose not to see it, but the writing was on the wall; the government had to change." Another example: "Can't you see the writing on the wall?"




"Politics is just like show business. You have a hell of a opening, coast for a while, and then have a hell of a close."
Reagan to aide Stuart Spencer, 1966

"You've got to be careful quoting Ronald Reagan, because when you quote him accurately it's called mudslinging."
Walter Mondale

"If it takes a bloodbath, let's get it over with."
Ronald Reagan, April 7th, 1970
Governor of California & soon-to-be US President, on his attitude towards student civil rights activists, dissenters, & Vietnam War protestors

"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself."
Ronald Reagan

"One problem that we've had, even in the best of times, is the people sleeping on the grates, the homeless who are homeless, you might say, by choice."
Reagan 1/31/84



"For 18 months now, we have had under way a secret diplomatic initiative to Iran. That initative was undertaken for the simplest and best reasons: to renew a relationship with the nation of Iran; to bring a honorable end to the bloody six-year war between Iran and Iraq; to eliminate state-spondored terrorism and subversion, and to effect the safe return of all hostages... During the course of our secret discussions, I authorized the transfer of small amounts of defensive weapons and spare parts for defensive systems to Iran....These modest deliveries, taken together could easily fit into a single cargo plane.... We did not--repeat--did not trade weapons or anything else for hostages, nor will we."
Reagan Nov 14, 1986
Speech to Nation

"Well, I learned a lot. You'd be surprised. They're all individual countries."
Reagan talking to reporters upon his return from Latin American. 12/4/1982



edit: spelling

[fortyfeetunder]

1. galvanized my thoughts...

I had my doubts about the GOP after Nixon. But the 80's brought on change in my personal circumstances, and it confirmed my distate for most things GOP. Pounding pavement, working 2 minimum wage jobs, going to school. Lie low. Best I could do.

[omega minimo]

2. A Survivor

:toast:

[high density]

3. Too young

In 2000, when Bush was handed the presidency over Gore, I wasn't very politically savvy (it was my first election but I did have enough smarts to vote for Gore.) I figured that Bush was an idiot so he wouldn't touch much and everything would basically remain the status quo. Five years later it's clear that he's a total crazy man, but instead of doing nothing, he has either screwed up or is trying to screw up everything in this country. The Bush years have definitely fostered me into a liberal better than just about anything else could have.

[omega minimo]

5. Any insight on why people vote for the grinning Idiot?

(btw Bush is doing his best Reagan imitation)

"The Bush years have definitely fostered me into a liberal better than just about anything else could have." :yourock:

[BlueIris]

4. Born in '79. Still feel like I shoulda seen it. Didn't see it. Hate me.

In many ways, I still feel knocked on my ass by Bush's ascention. I also feel betrayed by the portion (read: vast majority) of my generation that is "too busy having kids and stuff" and to give a rat's ass about the destruction and prioritize not so they can get promoted again next year, but so they can take some action and try to save what's left. Because despite, in some cases, their multiple post-graduate degrees, they have no sense of history and no understanding of what we've already lost. It doesn't hurt them. Also, they're not able to put what they know is wrong with their lives in historical context. Either that or their ignorant, too self-consumed or just plain old ordinary assholish to "get" what's going on. Assholes.

[omega minimo]

6. If you grew up inside the Reagan bubble

the brainwashing had already begun.

It was done to people. This is no accident:

"Because despite, in some cases, their multiple post-graduate degrees, they have no sense of history and no understanding of what we've already lost. It doesn't hurt them. Also, they're not able to put what they know is wrong with their lives in historical context. "

You've hit on a key point in the mind(lessness) control that allows "Bush's ascencion."

[aquart]

8. I was never fooled by Reagan. Or Nixon.

I was fooled by Democrats. I thought they'd fight for me. When Clinton and Schumer voted to give Bush his war I felt like I'd been hit by a brick. I knew Bush was lying. It was obvious to a blind man. WHY DIDN'T THEY?

This didn't start with Reagan. It's been an ongoing reaction to the shame of Nixon. The Republicans took note: the media, the House, the judiciary...exposed Nixon and his criminal administration. And the Republicans set out to make sure it could never happen again. They learned from their mistakes. Not to be honest, trustworthy, and straightforward, but how to get away with being treasonous.

Bunch of Slytherins.

[craigolemiss]

10. this is what I will always wonder

Why didn't they fight for me? What happened--I remember the insane runup to the Iraq war and how it was obvious that we were being lied to and the only people that didn't vote for it were some of the (and I apologize in advance) nutsos that werent going to vote for it anyway.

What happened to the rest of the Democratic party--yeah everyone or almost everyone knows it now, but why didn't some of the Democrats vote against it.

We all understand that Afghanistan was a completely different circumstance, yet even that war has been F-ed up beyond all measure. We should have been out of there and done with it months, (years) ago. and now its going to be a case of having the army both there and in Iraq til at "least" 2009? WTF?

[aquart]

12. Iraq and Afghanistan make sense if...

One is stupid enough to consider invading Iran. So. Who do we know who's that stupid?

[bvar22]

15. There were plenty of Democrats who voted AGAINST the IWR.

I don't have my list handy, but will post the list later today.
Surely you don't mean to call Party leaders like Kucinich, Wellstone, and Pelosi "nutsos"!


This mistake ("none of the Democrats fought for me") is understandable.
The Democrats who voted FOR the IRW have strong ties to Corporate Money, and as such, they get all the Face Time on the CorpoMedia. Anyone who gets their news from the CorpoMedia would get the impression that the Democratic Party as a whole voted FOR the IWR. The TRUTH is that only the Republican Wing (DLC) of the Democratic Party actively supported bush* and dragged the rest of the Party into this disaster.




The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[BlueIris]

9. I was lucky to have Reagan-hating parents, I guess.

Who maintain their hate to this day.

[omega minimo]

16. They gave you a gift

Reagan was hateworthy. Bush Jr. is merely pathetic. I don't understand why anyone (on DU) thinks W. is actually In Charge.

If President Cheney was the face of this regime, do you think anything would change?

:kick:

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/24/diy_bullshit_protect.html

DIY "bullshit protector" earpieces, like Bill Moyer's
Amid sez, "A 73-year-old veteran, Bill Moyer, made the ultimate fashion statement at Bush's speech in Idaho Utah yesterday: he wore a 'bullshit protector' over his ears. The photo made the AP and is all over the net now. Inspired by Moyer, Wiseass.org has created a do-it-yourself PDF version of the earpiece." I wish that the wiseass.org ones were a more faithful repro of Moyer's lovely statement, though. Link (Thanks, Amid!)

Update: A Boing Boing reader has produced "a Bullshit Protector PDF that looks as close to the original photo as I could make it. And, yes, it really does say "cooties"."

[BlueIris]

36. That's how I feel sometimes.

Both that they gave me a gift (ironic, considering the other things they took away from me through the abuse) AND that Bush Jr. is worse than Reagan. I especially feel that the place Reagan took the nation during his terms represents a bigger loss to our future than what W. has done. Also, Reagan (and Nixon)'s administrations seem--as much as this counts, from an anklebiter--collectively worse to me than the present administration.

[omega minimo]

42. Reagan paved the wave and groomed the complacency

He designed the catapult Bush uses to deliver the propaganda. :puke:

That's why the question on the timeline runs back over the period that this flood of disassembled democracy has been rising.

[DemInDistress]

7. and to effect the safe return of all hostages.

H'm.Did Poppy Bush,William Casey and someone else go to Paris in October 1980 and meet with Iranians behind the back of Jimmy Carter's attempts at negotiating terms in order to free the hostages.Poppy Bush IMO in a heart beat sneak behind the President's back and promise
better things to the Iranians if they promised to hold the hostages until after the election is over...Prescott Bush GHWB pop was no stranger with trading with the enemy,how much looted Jewish "booty"passed Prescott banks...

[Mythsaje]

11. I've been eyeing the government suspiciously

since I was old enough to "get it." I was about seventeen when the Iran/Contra scandal broke and I was highly suspicious of what I heard coming out of THAT administration.

What I did was pay attention, and point out to everyone who would listen the flaws in voodoo economics and the idea of allowing the RW everything it wanted.

I also opposed anything that smacked of authoritarianism from the left as well, since I am, by nature and nurture, opposed to that sort of thing from the outset.

I honed my debating skills and worked on my writing in general. And voted against the Republicans every time I got the chance.

[omega minimo]

17. Very important

"What I did was pay attention, and point out to everyone who would listen the flaws in voodoo economics and the idea of allowing the RW everything it wanted."

Not sure how this would potentially manifest itself...

"I also opposed anything that smacked of authoritarianism from the left as well..." but the Democrats and the citizens went along with all the chippin' away at civil liberties-- didn't blink or whimper-- that really cranked up in the Nineties (BIGTIME Writing On The Wall) that led us directly, and predictably, to this predicament.

Not to mention the decades-long march of corporate power into every aspect of life. Has everybody been :boring:?

[Mythsaje]

18. I would say so...yes...

I blame EVERYONE for this mess we're in...except those of us who were trying to get the message across while it was being ignored.

My best friend still thinks we would have had to go into Iraq eventually. And he's pretty politically savvy...just a little to the right of me.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

13. Here's what I did...I told you all so! I warned everybody! But, nobody

listened. What a surprise. Arise, America, Awake, for Shrubbery into the peaceful night has thrown the international insult that sets the world alight.

[omega minimo]

19. And thank you for that

:hi: You are a true :patriot: who somewhere/when got the concept that democracy depends on the individual.

As for the "nobody listened" part-- that's what this thread is about and the repsonses are fantastic. On DU we tend to point the finger at Dem politicians (valid too). What about us? When do we discuss the responsibility (those of us old enough) we have for due diligence?

That topic often devolves into generational squabbles, which isn't the point. The PERSPECTIVE and outlook of different age groups is relevant though. IMHO it would be very tough to grow up after the Raygun presidency and not succumb to the bamboozlement, unless one had aware adults to learn from.

[OneTwentyoNine]

14. Didn't take a genius,just victims of the Reagan era to see this coming..

Both my dad and myself saw this disaster coming in the summer of 2000. We'd both been victims of Reagan and his "tinkle down" economics. My dad lost his job to downsizing in 1985 when he was 63. Luckily the company he worked for PPG,did right by him and he retired with full benifits. Today that company or other large ones would probably tell you "later days" and that would be the end of it.

Being self-employed I damn near lost our house by the summer of 1982 because of that bafoons economic plans. The housing market dried up and millions were already laid off especially in the Wichita aircraft industry. We cut back to the bare bone for the next 1-2 YEARS and luckly didn't have any kids so we were able to keep the house.

I'll never forget those years or that asshole as long as I live.....

[omega minimo]

20. They turned the public will into goo

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2042295&mesg_id=2042551

[omega minimo]

21. If you vote, please comment! We wanna hear from you

Let's unravel the mess by figgering out how it got tangled.......

[political_invader]

22. New World Order

The first time i heard the Bush- nics talking about the 1 new world order i knew they were no good!!

[omega minimo]

23. There's more talk tonight on DU like this was INEVITABLE or sumthin!!!!!!!

Give us ONE GOOD REASON we let this happen:

[kodi]

24. '97, when i saw a NY times columnist pimp bush as a GOP savior

never forgot it. i turned to a buddy and said, bush runs and wins in 2000. he thought i was crazy.

[omega minimo]

25. Good call!

Iran/Contra hearings, they called Ollie North a "hero." I thought THEY were crazy.

:kick:

[omega minimo]

26. Beginning of the End, People!

...and Americans crazy for goin along with it. That was another Prezdent Bush.

And the Big Lie got bigger and bigger and BIGGER AND :nuke:

[prairierose]

27. I saw what was coming & worked in....

political campaigns. I was always taught that citizens have a responsibility to be educated on the issues and participate. Both of my parents were active politically and it is a family tradition that goes back before the days of the territory. I grew up taking supper to my mother most every election night because she was serving on an election board.

I watched Nixon and knew he was a man who did NOT have the people's interests at heart. I watched Reagan begin to dismantle the education system of this country (ignorant people believe bullshit much faster than educated, thinking people) as well as the system of law that protected the PEOPLE and the COMMONS.

I spent over 20 years teaching & trying to teach my students to THINK rather than just accept what they were told.

I have spent over 30 years working and speaking out for environmental issues. Recycling and trying to save energy every day of most of my life.

I have spoken for women's rights for most of my life as well as the rights of minorities.

I have NEVER bought into the consumer society and never will.

Activism is an every day activity for me. My beliefs inform my every day life and I will NOT change. I will continue to speak out and write about the things I see but for now, I am concentrating on protecting and providing for my family in what is to come. WE as a nation will pay a heavy price for the "leadership" we have allowed through ignorance and apathy for the past 25 years.

[omega minimo]

32. This is the answer to "what can ya do?" beautiful, simple, profound

"I was always taught that citizens have a responsibility to be educated on the issues and participate.
...I watched Nixon and knew he was a man who did NOT have the people's interests at heart.
...I watched Reagan begin to dismantle the education system of this country
(ignorant people believe bullshit much faster than educated, thinking people)
as well as the system of law that protected the PEOPLE and the COMMONS."

("the PEOPLE and the COMMONS"? What's THAT? :shrug: :rofl:)

"I spent over 20 years teaching & trying to teach my students to THINK rather than just accept what they were told.
I have spent over 30 years working and speaking out for environmental issues.
Recycling and trying to save energy every day of most of my life.
I have spoken for women's rights for most of my life as well as the rights of minorities.
I have NEVER bought into the consumer society and never will.
Activism is an every day activity for me.
My beliefs inform my every day life and I will NOT change.
I will continue to speak out and write about the things I see but for now,
I am concentrating on protecting and providing for my family in what is to come."

You have provided a CHECKLIST for how individuals can be empowered and powerful in private life, KNOWING that they DO make a difference (I'll bet you VOTE too).

You speak beautifully for a certain segment of the (DU) population, born in a certain time; a segment of people who ingested the winds of change and the personal is political and were stamped indelibly with "my beliefs inform my every day life and I will NOT change."

"MY BELIEFS INFORM MY EVERY DAY LIFE AND I WILL NOT CHANGE." :patriot:

And you capped it off with the point, the reason I keep asking this quesion-- and I am so grateful that there are such excellent comments in response this time-- because we share responsibility for the state of our dis-union....

"WE as a nation will pay a heavy price for the "leadership" we have allowed through ignorance and apathy for the past 25 years."

The message you have sent is what I wish could be broadcast amongst those who seem resigned to the inevitability of a horrid future-- who accept powerlessness and seem willing to "bring it on" as if a magic bullet will save them at the last... I don't get it. If enough of us were paying attention, it seems that the DISASSEMBLING of our nation would not have been possible.

Thank you.

[prairierose]

35. Thanks for your thanks...

at least one person read my diatribe.

But most people think I'm :freak:

;)

[omega minimo]

41. "Most people" have gone along with this charade for decades

which is why I asked the question (again) :evilgrin:

[tom_paine]

28. The things during the reign of Reagan (1980-83)/Poppy Augustus (1984-1992)

(you think Reagan had ANYTHING to say about ANYTHING once his Alzheimer's set it, he probably didn't have that much say in things even before that)

that were truly dangerous to America mostly occurred under the surface, like the end of the Fairness Doctrine, the savaging of the courts and the incessant probing for weakness in the System of Checks and balances, the test-firing of the Bushevik Party-Loyal Sub-Media & the effective death of the FCC etc.

I am of the opinion that Reagan's conservative ideals, even if they were wrong-headed (not all of them were, though, and I am prepared for the flaming of a lifetime), were not what got us where we are today.

It was the OTHER THINGS, which took place out of sight, that were the REAL problem. And most of us were as caught by surprise at a direct assault on the Constitutional Foundations of America as our leaders (who, damn them, were PAID to notice stuff like that!).

I was too young to notice anything but the surface things, which seemed bad enough but which simply dwarfed the "termiting down below" that was so successful.

Even NOW, if only we had a trustworthy voting system and Free Press, we could right this wrong.

But we have NOTHING left but a pale shadow of what was. That, and Der Fuhrer's Will are the "Constitution" of Imperial Amerika.

[omega minimo]

33. Reagan was a doddering old buzzard (Alzheimer's?)

until the first debate with Mondale in '84, prior to his second term. He performed SO badly-- he was totally addled and cluelss-- that the handlers took and replaced Ol' Ronnie with a spiffier model. His earpiece preceded the W's. He was a different person/a after that.

Perhaps I'm aphasic (sp?) (see "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat" Dr. Oliver Sacks) but I never bought the Reagan mystique for a second.


"The things that were truly dangerous to America mostly occurred under the surface, like ... the test-firing of the Bushevik Party-Loyal Sub-Media & the effective death of the FCC etc."

Key-- the media takeover (and see HS excellent comments below on media, art, commerce, music...) which enableD the swallowing whole of "Reagan's conservative ideals."

"And most of us were as caught by surprise at a direct assault on the Constitutional Foundations of America as our leaders (who, damn them, were PAID to notice stuff like that!)."

Very good point. That was and still IS their JOB. My other question that has been a previous sleeper :boring: on DU is WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF? Are they not representing us because they are in fear of.......?

"Even NOW, if only we had a trustworthy voting system and Free Press, we could right this wrong."

Good place to START.

[BlueIris]

39. They're afraid of provoking the still-kicking far right.

Into another staged terrorist attack. Those kids can be diffused in the not-so-long term, but no single sitting Democratic politician is in a position to do it alone, especially not while the right still has the media and a good 40%-50% of the public willing to believe they're "not that bad." I don't particularly want any of our top Dems especially to, quite frankly, be shot and killed, if a convenient airplane/car crash or two won't do it. That's not going to solve anything, particularly if those taken out are the few left with solid presidential prospects.

[omega minimo]

40. Well, there it is then

Summed up aptly, BI. Thank you. Have to say, when I have talked to non-progressive folks who do understand what's going on, those memories of JFK RFK MLK are always in the awareness of what we're talking about... at the bottom line along with "follow the money."

This morning I hope that the scales are falling from the People's eyes as the complete disconnect from reality of this pResident is glaring from the TV screens....

We'll see.

[dajoki]

29. i never thought it could get any worse than raygun...

I WAS WRONG!!

[Hidden Stillness]

30. It Took a While Before You Realized What it all Was

It took a little while to respond to this thread, as I have been busy with a few things, (not Hurricane-related), and this is a complicated topic. I voted "Noticed but what can ya do?," an unhappy response, but I have come to believe, accurate here.

The first alarming sign I got about Reagan was when Jimmy Carter was on the (morning) Phil Donahue show, just after losing the 1980 election, and the subject turned to the new President, Ray-Gun. Carter described the briefing session, as the outgoing Administration gives the new Administration all the Top Secret, Background etc. information it needs to know. Carter was very famous as one of the smartest people ever in the White House, even understanding the problems at Three Mile Island as that was happening, and told Donahue how Reagan appeared totally uninterested in the whole discussion, never took a single note, and even at one point expressed admiration for the way the murderous dictator Pol Pot was able to get political opponents drafted into the armed forces at war, and killed. It was unbelievably chilling, and I knew Reagan was going to be a nightmare. I just never suspected that the media would be totally turned over to this same group, and now become complicit itself--but they did.

Once the media started consolidating with the new Reagan-'80s law changes, everything that came out of it started to change, and it was not like an expression of the society or the country anymore--now it just had the cut-off effect of corporate coordination, like having your boss pumping propaganda over the loudspeakers into your place of work, and all the peons unable to respond. Movies, programs on TV, etc., none of it felt like a cultural expression anymore, as if it came from us, and I stopped being able to relate to it. Unlike earlier eras, where new trends were eventually covered or examined by the media, all feminist, anti-corporate, liberal, etc. opinion was now completely censored, like they were all dead, and I felt a dislocated sense, like I couldn't tell what era it was anymore, or what my society was even like. There was no natural feedback anymore, as everything became archconservative/corporate propaganda. Rock and roll lost its sense of being spontaneous and local, and instead took on the same dead feel of the rest of the corporate world. Talentless people (DuranDuran, etc.) became famous for visual, corporate-produced videos, not music, and it was as if a whole new level of business executives existed just to keep people from getting famous, unless visual and bland.

They started saying things on TV, unchallenged, that I had never heard before: "cutting taxes stimulates the economy," "cutting taxes creates jobs"--total bullshit of a type easily shot down, now suddenly went unanswered, and it was scary to me. The local TV news used to have "guest editorials," where anybody, if you had a valid point, could go on TV and answer something in the news. After the Reagan killing of the Fairness Doctrine, that and all other avenues of public expression for the non-corporate was gone. Moderate things were now called "lunatic liberal" and there was no one there to answer this creepiness, these coordinated lies. One corporatist at one point said, "politically correct," (meaning liberal), and suddenly, for years and years, it was everywhere, attacking everything, all of them as if under orders that they must say it, over and over.

Well, I could go on and on with random examples, but this is the idea. The first sense I got that things were really different, corporate rather than societal anymore, cut off and preached at us rather than actually coming out of us as a people and a culture, managed/censored rather than going its natural way, was at this time. After all, this is the group that conducts endless psychological studies on focus groups, to determine the effects of colors and filtered sound, holding a camera shot one-tenth of a second longer or cutting away, this word and vocal inflection rather than that, etc., etc. This group is totally fucking talentless as writers, but pays all attention to psychological manipulation for the purpose of total commercial control, not caring what the social and personal effects are, and we are now on one whole generation raised on this horror, never having known what it is to be not hyper-self-conscious and hyper-aware of what the corporate pimp thinks.

Generally, this was what I first noticed: the "news" media didn't investigate Republicans anymore, the entertainment world was now corporate, and not made up of the people, all commentary seemed like it was coming from only one very small, extremist group, and it all now went unanswered, no matter how outrageous it was. The entire media was a corporate mouthpiece, and we were shut out of our own country. It would be many years before all the other horrors started following, though, but we are there now.

[omega minimo]

34. The Me Me Media

"Jimmy Carter ... told Donahue how Reagan appeared totally uninterested in the whole discussion, never took a single note" -- like Richard Clarke's descriptions of *.

"Once the media started consolidating with the new Reagan-'80s law changes, everything that came out of it started to change, and it was not like an expression of the society or the country anymore--now it just had the cut-off effect of corporate coordination, like having your boss pumping propaganda over the loudspeakers into your place of work, and all the peons unable to respond."

That's a great capsulization of where we live now. Is the majority of, say DU, aware of how important that media process was to leading us to this point? Many who grew up in the bubble, at best, think they're too savvy to be suckered, but THEY INGEST THE CRAP ANYWAY. Minds are wallpapered, willing or not.

HS, this is brilliant:

"The first sense I got that things were really different,
corporate rather than societal anymore,
cut off and preached at us rather than actually coming out of us as a people and a culture,
managed/censored rather than going its natural way, was at this time."

Doesn't that suggest that undoing the mindfucking means turning that process inside out and backwards, REFUTING the "managed/censored" control? This IS "1984."

"This group is totally fucking talentless as writers, but pays all attention to psychological manipulation for the purpose of total commercial control, not caring what the social and personal effects are, and we are now on one whole generation raised on this horror, never having known what it is to be not hyper-self-conscious and hyper-aware of what the corporate pimp thinks."

And you can see that self-consciousness in (young) people, that hyper-awareness and sense they have to be always ON and simultaneously paranoid-- they don't know where the camera is... and sometimes, there ISN'T one. Minds are wallpapered.

"The entire media was a corporate mouthpiece, and we were shut out of our own country."

Now, that's just CRAZY talk! :hi: :rofl:

"It would be many years before all the other horrors started following, though, but we are there now."

I would add that the ever-so-obvious 1980's disassembling of the previous decade's Youth Movement and culture was A BIG FUCKING CLUE AS TO WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

Where is it now? It doesn't exist. Not in the sense, as before, as you said, of a common cultural experience.

"it was not like an expression of the society or the country anymore--now it just had the cut-off effect of corporate coordination, like having your boss pumping propaganda over the loudspeakers into your place of work, and all the peons unable to respond."

AND "Unlike earlier eras, where new trends were eventually covered or examined by the media, all feminist, anti-corporate, liberal, etc. opinion was now completely censored, like they were all dead, and I felt a dislocated sense, like I couldn't tell what era it was anymore, or what my society was even like. "

This is the good stuff, the important stuff. I think it is underrated (here for example). Folks may look at the fact of media change, but the underexamined subtle effects are a big part of what brought us here and a big part of what to do about it.

Always enlightening, HS.

[BamaLefty]

31. I Was Born During The Reagan Years

Christmas Eve of 1987

Although, at that time I probably knew more about what was going on than most Bushbots. :eyes:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

37. Said it before, I'll say it again.

When Peggy Noonan "spun" Reagan's Altzheimer's Moment (PCH Ramble) into a victory...I saw the impending doom.

"This man cannot possibly be elected" turned into a trend.

[omega minimo]

43. Touche

--"This man cannot possibly be elected" turned into a trend.--

:applause:

The suspended sense of disbelief being stretched ever and ever further is the REAL Reagan Legacy-- and the reason for the sheepleness.

[Hippo_Tron]

38. Clinton was supposed to bring the Reagan era to an end

But he failed to do that and we are still living in it, largely un-interrupted. I think that the election of Clinton made it harder to see what the future would be like.

[omega minimo]

44. "The best Republican president we ever had"

Clinton, that is.

(Is that a Malloy-ism?)

:hi:

[Hippo_Tron]

45. I don't consider Clinton a Republican

Especially, considering what the modern day Republicans are. Clinton was certainly better than Reagan, Bush I, and Shrub. But he was certainly NOT a Democrat in the way that FDR, Truman, JFK, Lyndon Johnson, and Jimmy Carter were Democrats.

[omega minimo]

46. Clinton continued the Republican agenda of corporatization of the nation

gave away the public airwaves, streamlined consolidation of all media, perpetrated NAFTA and "ended welfare as we know it."

And what happened to that health care promise?

[Hippo_Tron]

47. Hence, he didn't end the Reagan era

In certain ways he slowed it down a little bit, but all in all things stayed the same. Clinton basically accepted that the Reagan era was simply the new way of life and that was it.

The difference between Clinton and Reagan, Bush I, and Shurb, though, is that Clinton didn't have the total disregard for human life that the three of those guys did. For that, I wouldn't consider him to be a Republican, but he was certainly NOT as good of a Democrat as any of the Democratic Presidents that preceeded him since FDR.

[omega minimo]

48. Agreed

...and I would not call him a Repugnican or even a Republican....

Yet (not to sound like "Yeah but" cuz I'm with ya HT) the effects of NAFTA, the 1996 Telecommunications and the Welfare bill all are major dots in the connected fucked-up picture we are living in. Not least of the connections and the contributions Clinton added to the Reagan decline, is the brainwashing, the cognitive dissonance, the complacency, the zombie children............

[Hidden Stillness]

49. I HATE Those Damn Zombie Children!

Clinton was not a Republican, (I guess), but those were the two puzzle pieces that fit together, and made the most extreme Republican/corporate/non-social perspective seem, suddenly, not totally unbalanced as it really was, but as if "complete" and "logical" all by itself, because these people, "D"LC and Republican corporatists, agreed with and supported each other. This was now presented as the "complete" spectrum of opinion--there was for the first time, no non-corporate explanation for anything that happened, becoming a closed loop of mind-controlling propaganda, and not a public forum--and so all of their totally commercial perspectives on things were made to seem "moderate," and as if "proved." This was the real start of the shift in people's minds to the idea that there is only a "corporate-weal," not a commonweal: the media telling us that people were opposed to corporate takeovers and unregulated monopoly, not because of the loss of our society with laws and government, etc., but because "prices may go up," or "competitors complain that they can't get shelf space," etc. Like a cult, we were to think of only their concerns, not ours anymore, and Clinton's approach only furthered it. Remember that the great Harry Truman was presented with GATT as a proposal, and vowed that shit would never pass. Clinton passed it.

Clinton and etc. gave us the start of the nightmare that we still live with, and that is--no opposition. It is one thing to fight and lose; it is quite another to pretend there IS no other side to the story.

[omega minimo]

50. Cognitive dissonance sounds politer than the more salient "mindfucking"

"I HATE Those Damn Zombie Children!"

--:rofl: ....well, ya know, they are malnourished and over-mediaed; grown up in the shockandawe of post-Columbine USA (the nation didn't consider that a wake-up call-- just an opportunity to terrorize students in their high security schools); they're trying to cope by pretending that they're not THERE.....

"This was now presented as the "complete" spectrum of opinion--there was for the first time, no non-corporate explanation for anything that happened, becoming a closed loop of mind-controlling propaganda, and not a public forum--and so all of their totally commercial perspectives on things were made to seem "moderate," and as if "proved." "

-- Consolidated corporate media sure helps that, don't it? Tom Frank wrote about this throughout the 90's in the Baffler and One Nation Under God, etc. up through What's The Matter With Kansas.

"This was the real start of the shift in people's minds to the idea that there is only a "corporate-weal," not a commonweal: the media telling us that people were opposed to corporate takeovers and unregulated monopoly, not because of the loss of our society with laws and government, etc., but because "prices may go up," or "competitors complain that they can't get shelf space," etc."

-- "The era of big government is over" and they had people conveniently not learn or remember WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT.

"Like a cult, we were to think of only their concerns, not ours anymore, and Clinton's approach only furthered it."

-- Not our common concerns, not each other's individual concerns (that affect our own) (for example: education that produces generations of ZOMBIE CHILDREN WITH NO PROBLEM- SOLVING, LANGUAGE OR SOCIAL SKILLS).
:wow:

"Clinton and etc. gave us the start of the nightmare that we still live with, and that is--no opposition. It is one thing to fight and lose; it is quite another to pretend there IS no other side to the story."

-- And there it is. The long, slow slide since 1980..... why do some folks act like they just woke up one day and W. was the problem? He's not even the president. SO HOW DID WE GET HERE. WHY DID PEOPLE LET IT HAPPEN?

On the day BD signed the bill to End Welfare As We Know It, Congress dedicated a monument to FDR in DC.

Mindfucking.