You realize that all the Bush bashing is political suicide right now

[Singular73]

Right?

You do realize that anyone that has been affected, or has shown empathy towards the situation in New Orleans doesn't want to hear about how ebul Bush is at the moment, Right?

You do realize there is such a thing as "timing" when it comes to showing who is responsible for what, Right?

You do realize that any criticism of Bush right now will seem partisan and devicive in the face of an unparalleled catastrophe in the Gulf at the moment, right?

You do realize that trying to push the "It's Bush's fault" will ultimately strengthen him right now, right?

Just checkin, folks.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[friesianrider]

2. No.

It's called telling it like it is. If I'm being "political" by saying that Bush has mismanaged this hurricane's relief efforts, so friggin' be it. If it's being "political" to say that his ignorance and incompetance has lead to more people dying from lack of fucking food and water because he couldn't bear to cut his vacation short, then so fucknig be it.

I'm not going to not place criticism where it's due because politically it MAY be bad for us (and I totally disagree with you on that anyway).

[GeorgeGist]

3. Piffle

[liberaliraqvet26]

4. I agree...

I saved my Bush Bashing for DU (the last 3 days), not in public with others.

Bush is doing a great job bashing himself. We will have plenty of time to bash him in 3 weeks.

[Singular73]

7. Exactly.

On this one, trust me, let public opinion form on its own.

[friesianrider]

9. So it's ok to bash in 3 weeks, just not now?

Ummm...ok. :eyes:

[alcibiades_mystery]

94. The ancient Greeks called it kairos

the opportune moment.

we usually call it timing. The OP is correct.

[zanne]

116. Like right after 9/11?

Everybody was so nice, politically correct and respectful towards the president. Even if we had serious questions, we didn't dare ask them. Then the administration turned the catastophe to their advantage and had the Homeland Security act passed. Do you mean you want MORE of that?

[magnetism]

153. A terrorist attack

is not the same as a natural disaster. And why did Shrub LIHOP the hurricane? To officially kill his political career?

[calimary]

169. Welcome to DU. THIS. TOO. IS. HOMELAND. SECURITY.

EVERY BIT as essential to the common good and the protection of the United States of America as is our purported ability to flush out any "terrists."

He let it happen because he's just simply thoughtless, lazy, and doesn't want to have to work for a living. This wouldn't be the first time he's disregarded a warning, you know. Whether from a suicide bomber or a slew of Saudi-funded jihadi hijackers, OR from Mother Nature, the effects, and the devastation, and the misery, and the body blows, are all the same. In fact, in THIS case, it's worse.

And FEMA forecast this. I read earlier this week that FEMA is now two for three. In early 2001 (WHEN bushie-boy WAS in command, and while ON HIS WATCH), FEMA issued a forecast that identified the three catastrophes most likely to hit the US: 1) a terrorist attack in New York, 2) an earthquake in San Francisco, and 3) a hurricane in New Orleans.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html?blog=/politics/war_room/2005/08/31/warnings/index.html

Since bush was president at the time this forecast was delivered (to him and his), he has no excuse. He was told. He just didn't care. Just his nature. HUMAN NATURE. And besides, he's never had to care, before. Inertia, AND denial, are powerful things.

To prove it, consider this, or maybe you've experienced it already. I have in my own life. Do you know any pro-choice women who voted for him who were JUST SO COMPLETELY SURE that Roe v Wade would never be overturned? Did you ever hear any of them sneer at you and shake their heads in almost arrogant confidence and declare - "aww, it'll NEVER happen. Not gonna happen. It's NOT gonna happen" ? I have. I've had this very conversation with some of them. They're sneering out of the other sides of their mouths now, since Sandra Day O'Connor resigned. Now, THIS hurricane is bearing down on their complacent coastline and they can't say they weren't warned.

Or did you ever have a conversation with any of your friends or coworkers or neighbors who, if you suggested gas prices were gonna go way up (my husband was talking about five dollars a gallon, weeks ago and there were still people looking at him as though he had a hole in his head), and if they voted for bush they'd respond with "naaaaaaaaah, not gonna happen" or "aaaaaaahhh, he's not gonna do that. He's too smart for that" or "aw, you're just exaggerating... not gonna happen. He won't let that happen" ? And look where we are now.

Human nature. It's HUMAN NATURE to be the grasshopper instead of the ant. It's HUMAN NATURE to scoff at the Cassandras of the world who are just trying to stir things up and scare people and hey, everything's mellow, you know! Let 'er ride! Have a nice day!

You HAVE TO BE VIGILANT. You HAVE to recognize and brace for the worst. You have to realize and accept that there may even BE a "worst." Funny thing about worst-case scenarios. Sometimes they actually do happen.

[Usrename]

228. where is the thread on "Bush bashing"?

I feel the need to bash.

[Uncle Joe]

196. Yes I remember after 9/11,

while most everyone stood behind "fearless leader", the other side was commenting on "aren't you glad now that Al Gore is not in the White House"?

[Imagevision]

218. Waiy until the body counts come in-then watch the shit hit the fan!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/national/nationalspecial/04police.html?ex=1126497600&en=78d1ab3e2ca00a23&ei=5070&emc=eta1

[Pirate Smile]

16. What we say here isn't necessarily what we say to everyone else,

although it is possible to drop in a few facts without even mentioning Bush. People come to their own conclusions.

[wellstone_democrat]

20. Uh, I'm the public too

So, when can I *display* my opinion? I'm paying attention, l.ived through more than a few hurricanes myself and see some horrific differences in this one from what I ever experienced---its nice to be upper middle class and white let me tell ya...National Guard was always there before things really got going!

"Bashing?" I think people are making specific criticisms not simply "bashing" as you say. The severity of the storm and the vulnerability of the city were understood. The local authorities knew how bad it was when the silly anchormen were on TV saying it was "dodged!" and you know the authorities were calling for help. So, I should shut up about that? Why? Because some DC Democrat might get nervous? Screw that---I'm in Texas where you need a spine to be a Democrat and a hard shell to be a liberal.

But, sport, I'm an American and I'll point out whatever I like whenever I like. I don't *follow* opinion, I form my own and speak out.

[Imalittleteapot]

27. Hey we are the public and full of opinions!

Everything is Bush's fault and I hate him. There.

[OzarkDem]

43. Corporate news media is bashing him

even the GOP bootlicker Aaron Brown on CNN has been critical of Bushco's response.

Seriously, I would question why you would say such a thing.

[jackbourassa]

49. I totally disagree

This is the problem with Democrats, damn it. They are always waiting for opportune moments, and let the moment pass.

We had to "compromise" on court nominations because we were waiting for the Supreme Court vacancy. Then we...well, we gave up on that too.

Talk to people. Even Republicans are pissed at the way Bush has handled this disaster. EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT IT.

So no more DLC talking points, please. No more governing by polls.

WE FIGHT BACK, NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[calimary]

165. I'm with ya.

THIS. TOO. IS. HOMELAND. SECURITY.

It was supposed to be his specialty. It was supposed to be Lord High Protector who was "keeping us safe!"

Well, with this level of mismanagement and shitty leadership and detachment and uninvolvement and more interest in his own vacations than in the interests of those in need in this country, ARE WE REALLY SAFER? You call that "safe"? I call it BULLSHIT.

But it's in the WAY that you do it.

We rant and rave here and vent our outrage with each other. But outside of here, we don't necessarily have to be silent. Just take it down a few dB and do it with a leeeeeetle bit more subtlety.

You CAN INDEED bring it up. EVERYONE IS, INDEED, TALKING ABOUT IT. It's trumped EVERYTHING. Iraq, Social Security, terr, EVERYTHING. You CAN bring it up. Just do it with subtlety. ONE well-chosen, concisely-worded one-liner is all it takes. We all have hashed out enough here that pretty much EVERYONE is informed enough to have a one-liner (or to borrow one from the many, many posts and perspectives being showcased here). Just one casual aside, or maybe two, sprinkled into the conversation. Just ONE little reinforcement, or one little fact, or date, or example of failure or poor leadership or mismanagement, ONE LITTLE MENTION, is all that's needed. Sometimes it's just as simple as using the words "failure" or "poor leadership" or "mismanagement."

Or how 'bout this one: "THIS. TOO. IS. HOMELAND. SECURITY." Or "he said he'd keep us safe." Or "they all promised he was the one who was keeping us safe..."

THAT'S ALL YOU NEED, folks. Like you're a cook. You're stirring a pot. Everything in there's already bubbling and cooking and roiling. But it still needs a pinch of salt.

JUST DO IT. Sometimes the billiard ball needs a tiny little tap to find its way into the corner pocket.

[WyLoochka]

52. Public opinion "forms"

by folks speaking their minds to their family, friends and co workers, by people writing their opinions in blogs, on political discussion forums and letters to the editor, making calls to radio call in shows and cspan, going out into the streets to attend every protest possible etc - it doesn't form in a vacuum.

If people just shut up and keep their opinions to themselves - the opinion will "form" in the media that Bush is doing just great! And the media will pound that into our heads - no one is complaining - must be everyone thinks he's a frigging hero. Then, after they've beat it into everyone's head they'll produce some polls to show us that 92% of us think he's the greatest!

Oh those painful times spent as an 8 percenter. I remember them well. It ain't gonna happen again if we all do our part to prevent it, and the only way we can do that is to shout it from the roof tops - this Global Criminal Syndicate has got to go!

Terrible idea to shut up now. Couldn't be worse advice. I personally know at least 10 people who voted for the creep last November who now absolutely loathe the mere thought of him and most of his wrecking crew. I'm not going to let any of them do an "back sliding."

[me b zola]

63. You mean like the public on the Gulf Coast

whom I have seen interviewed on cnn/msnbc that are *yelling* that this is bush's* fault? They are in the middle of this shit, have lost everything, and they are blaming bush*. I think we should be supportive of them.

[marions ghost]

209. ((((((((((( WE ARE "public opinion" ! ))))))))))))))

Get real--whatever we are saying here on DU cannot possibly hurt the cause of the hurricane victims. Compared to the forces (natural and man-made) that have already brought harm to them, our attempts to disseminate information and opinions and objections at this point are infinitely more positive.

How condescending of you to imply that we are NOT "public opinion" and therefore we should shut up...we should not be critical...we should be afraid to speak until some mythical proper time... You are suggesting that we should craft "correct" oppositional strategies in the face of the most grievous crimes and dereliction of duty and trust by our government. You'd prefer to see little pathetic groupthink strategies that defer expression of outrage until "a better time"-- (!?!) What utter BS.


:wtf:

[CANDO]

223. Meanwhile, Faux and Limpjaw will be deflecting blame elsewhere.

If we remain silent, it will the same old story. If/when we do speak up, they will have already spun it beyond them being responsible. This is why you are wrong on this one. Respectfully.

[FreedomAngel82]

111. So you'd rather people not critize Bush?

He's not King George.

[salin]

225. Don't think that is the point of the post

more talking about the public face of the party seen as taking pot shots - and possibly resulting in a sympathy (for bush) backlash - vs. letting bushco, which is doing such a HORRIBLE JOB on their own, drown themselves a little longer in the court of public opinion. After bushco has taken enough political rope to cause damage - then do the pouncing (in which case the public response - is more one of "You (public dems) really DO give voice to how I feel!"

However - this has nothing to do with private bashing (ala on DU).

At least that is how I read this thread.

[alittlelark]

5. uh, yeah...............

.

[Pirate Smile]

6. Actually, I have felt a growth of outrage and shock at the incompetence

of the Federal and State Governments.

edit to add - it reminds me of after we invaded Iraq and they seemed to have no idea what to do next. No plan while people suffered. Slow reactions.

[PSPS]

I respectfully disagree

Pointing out that Bush is "a day late and a dollar short" is perfectly appropriate if it's the truth. And it certainly is.

A real leader wouldn't wait three days, read a speech from a teleprompter, and scurry off without taking any questions.

[Singular73]

10. Yes, its appropriate. But not now.

Wait a few weeks.

[WyLoochka]

69. I'm sorry - I'm going to be blunt

I think you are grossly lacking in "political instincts" - at least winning ones. Shutting up now is a sure loser strategy. They are being driven toward the ropes - now is definitely not the time let up on them so they can recoup and "stratergize."

We can ultimately win this battle, but to do that we have to keep the pressure on. It's time to escalate - not back down. The incompetent, ruthless, greedy, corrupt assholes have handed us their own butts on a silver platter. Let's broil 'em.

[magnetism]

157. This isn't about politics

Everything is not about politics. This was a natural disaster followed by an engineering disaster fueled by lack of funding followed by the lack of a evacuation plan in place followed by the lack of solutions.

It is a lesson in how NOT to handle a catastrophe, but it is NOT a time to think of PARTY and WINNING ahead of HUMAN SUFFERING.

[chomskysright]

170. I think we escalate on the Republicans, not the Dems..thinking here...

[chomskysright]

171. you have to be a little willing to crawl around Rove's head...thinking aga

[chomskysright]

172. bear in mind Repugs ability to turn a sour situation into a victory...

[chomskysright]

173. we are speaking to a social psychology phenomenon here:

..and its slicker and slimier than you can imagine. It makes you look at things that humans do not particularly like to entertain: racism.
Do you think that Bush would not be rescuing a bunch of white people? , for instance

[Seabiscuit]

193. Blast him now and keep blasting him repeatedly for days, weeks, months,

years about that.

The Repukes learned long ago that repetition has a way of shaping "reality" (for them, public opinion). They don't just tell lies. They repeat those lies so often and for so long that the sheeple believe them without question. Case in point: Iraq.

It's time us Dems learned something from successful Repuke strategy - only we can fight clean - no need for lies - just hammer the world with the truth until it sinks in.

[Douglas Carpenter]

206. Amen

and amen

[FreedomAngel82]

113. LOL

Oh good grief. Bush is *supposed* to be the president. He should fucking act like it! While people are dying he shouldn't be off eating cake with John McCain or strumming a guitar or going golfing in Arizona! He should be freakin doing something! For any president during this type of horrible disaster. People are fucking dying and it is George Bush's fault so get a fucking clue!

[puddycat]

14. Exactly. the pix of Bush playing the guitar says it all -- incompetence

and there is nothing wrong with driving this point home with Bush supporters we know--keep driving it, driving it, driving it. The more they are forced to think about his incompetence, the better.

[chomskysright]

174. Krugman today: Not simple incompetence:

Mr. Krugman:

You stated:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/opinion/02krugman.html

"I don't think this is a simple tale of incompetence. The reason the military wasn't rushed in to help along the Gulf Coast is, I believe, the same reason nothing was done to stop looting after the fall of Baghdad. Flood control was neglected for the same reason our troops in Iraq didn't get adequate armor. ..."

I think what we are mapping out here is what I am calling 'Malevolent Neglect.' It has certain 'constructs' (psychologists map out the 'interior', if you will, of a phenomenon.)

[ret5hd]

8. OMG!!! This is HUGH!!!

why didn't we think of this!

on edit: are we morans?

[Singular73]

17. Doesn't seem that way.

*shrug*

[stillcool]

41. hee-hee-hee...priceless

[Eloriel]

86. I think you're right. n/t

[Coexist]

115. my thoughts exactly!

[Emit]

167. DISAGREE! I have family there. I have friends and family calling

me saying that Bush & Co are lame and inept with their response to this crisis. I am getting tearful calls about this. This is not political bashing of Bush & CO. This is reality. It's lame management no matter whether it's a federal lack of response of a NOLA Dem lack of prepardness. I place more blame on Bush & Co's ineptness and lack of response, personally. We speak the truth--it's not just Bush bashing!

[ArkDem]

194. Hugh who?

[blueraven95]

11. I disagree

Maybe Bush bashing is not right at this moment, as in calling him names, but pointing out how long it took him to respond and how little real relief he has promised is exactly what needs to be done. Particularly considering that there seems to have been little planning done before the hurricane, even though we knew how bad it was likely to be. And also, because he has stretched us so thin in Iraq that we do not even have the National Guard here, who are supposed to be protecting us.

Sorry if this is incoherent, but I am really tired.

[Carni]

12. I DO NOT agree

The people waiting for relief that haven't had water in three days are pissed and half dead--they DO CARE that their government hasn't done shit for them...You underestimate the savvy of the people who are the victims of this mess.

[Griffy]

13. define "bush bashing".. I tell the truth and that is bashing to some...

saying he cut funding is truth and blame at the same time.. is that bashing? ... the war is wrong, am I supporting the enemy? ....

don't fall into that bashing crap.. they M.O. of the repugs is smear the bearers of truth with lies and destortion and decry us if we smear them with truth!

BE the MEDIA!

[Singular73]

15. I understand your point.

By bashing, I guess I don't mean unfounded criticism, but what APPEARS to be partisan criticism.

Consider the source.

[leesa]

31. Be a good little Dem...don't offend the GOP!

[chomskysright]

175. NO, that's not what is being alluded to here I don't think....

I think you have to step back and ask Michele Foucault's question:
WHO IS SPEAKING HERE? re: power and power relations...still thinking...this is brining up provocative material....which is not to say you don't 'do something'.....you do it planfully.
I posit that Harry Reid is allowing the Repugs to dig their own grave and it is tough to stay on course w/ that strategy but quite possibly that is the only thing that will work...still thinking here....

[FreedomAngel82]

117. Give me a fucking break

If you don't like the "bashing" as you state it don't fucking read it! Do you think if a democrat was president people would be giving him (or her) a pass? I doubt it! Face the facts. Bush cut funding when the officials of the state BEGGED HIM not to DO IT! But he did it anyway so more money can go to Iraq! If you don't like the truth then close your damn eyes but don't let other people from knowing the truth!

[w13rd0]

132. Bullshit. I call bullshit.

I voted Republican more often than not up until 2000. I criticize Bush because he deserves to be criticized, not because I'm a "partisan Democrat" or any other such nonsense. Those that self-identify as Independents, by an overwhelming majority, are AS or in many cases MORE angry at Bush than Democrats are. Seems your advice has been embraced by much of the "democratic" leadership though.

[iamjoy]

163. Some Of It Is Valid, Some Partisan

some maybe a little of both.

I think saying Dubya doesn't care about people or wants them to die will be seen as partisan, no matter how true some think it is.

I think saying the federal response to this disaster has been a horrible failure is not partisan and the points need to be made. Why was FEMA so slow to responsd? Why did it take Dubya two days to cut his vacation short before returning to DC to "coordinate efforts"? That was a bad move and makes it appear he does not have a handle on the situation.

I think "excusing" the failures of state and local level by saying they were so overwhelmed by the magnitude, immediacy and proximity of everything demonstrates why a federal response is necessary.

Responsiblity should go up to the highest level, especially when people are dying. If local officials in New Orleans weren't responding properly, state officials needed to come in. If the state wasn't handling it, the federal government needs to do something.

If Dubya was oh so concerned, he should have gotten on the phone with Governor Blanco and said, "Your people are dying. This is unnacceptable, what can I do?"

Protocal? The constitution? People's lives should come first.

[napi21]

18. I disagree with you! It was Shrub who cut funding to programs

that would have strengthened the levies. His Homeland Security had other priorities on Sunday and Nonday AND Tuesday rather than asking for NG and the Navy help there.

I just spoke to a very good friend who used to live in NO, and has relatives there. I asked her about the dead bodies that were folating in the water. Were they dead from the storm or from graves???? She said they were nost likely dead fron the storm beause people are burried in NO in above ground tombs so that doesn't happen!

She is a very strong Shrub supporter, but even she is very upset that the Feds didn't rush to the aid of a very beautiful city. They could have saved it!!!!

Unfortunately, she isn't blaming Shrub!

[magnetism]

160. umm...the tombs got flooded too

yea, those above-ground tombs. The bodies are now floating.

[chomskysright]

176. this is a given: we know this: however, step back and look over...

the landscape. What do you see? This is not paranoia: this is entertaining the strategy that sits behind putting all the chess pieces on the board a la Rove and then waiting for an Act of God to blame...

There's a phenomenon going on here re: lack of federal assistance in N.O. and what took place prior to 9-11. I'm using the phrase (as psychologists are prone to assign something a descriptor as a kind of short-hand) "Malevolent Neglect."

We now have 2 BIG instances of Malevolent Neglect: 9-11 and New Orleans.

Both are associated with information voluminously parlayed to Bush's administration prior to the event. This is established.

Back up: get away from the smoke: what do you see: 2 events with massive warning, should've-been-planning, finger pointing during which nothing goes into the US Cabinet and little impact on the U.S. Congress.

I keep thinking back to Stanley Milgram's experiments; to Zimbardo's prison experiment. There are big archetypal forces being examined in all of these settings: sadism and torture.

There is a social psychology experiment being played out here---either consciously or unconsciously. I think some of both, more conscious than not, with the related parties, particularly Rove I think, working the pieces onto the board and then whistling as he walks away into the dark of the night, knowing that sometime/ somewhere the levee will break, the terrorists will take over the planes, the London Muslims scrambling in their back-packs because they all of a sudden figured out what was up.

[MojoXN]

19. I agree. Even waiting 24 hours can make a world of difference...

when it comes to good taste. The Right is going to call us opportunistic for raising the issue, regardless of when. The thing is, if we wait for a resepctful period, and then voice our concerns, your average American is going to see the "outrage" from the Right for what it is: more propogandistic pro-Bush apologism.

MojoXN

[Cha]

46. rush limbaugh said when this

first happened that Liberals were going to politicize this right after he called hurricane "Katrina" .. "Hurricane Katrina vanden Heuvel" after an editor of "The Nation" magazine..

I could personally give a fuck what limpbaugh spews or the rw fascistheads.

Course, I never did care what they said. Time to stop being so :scared:

[FreedomAngel82]

120. Oh wa wa wa

[madfloridian]

21. Today's RNC talking points...heard all over the AAR today.

Telling us to be nice.

[ret5hd]

23. Exactly exactly exactly...

It seems there is never a right time for some. eh? maybe we should just shut up forever.

[FreedomAngel82]

122. Last night I was reading Al Franken's book

I'm at the part where Franken is talking about Paul Wellington's funeral. He talked about how when Norm Coleman was going around all these shows and he was talking about how he wasn't going to politicize the whole thing and then at the funeral a lot of people showed up from both sides of the isle and then they spinned the story and went around and made false claims of how the democrats were making this political. Harry Reid went on a show and said how Coleman was politicizing the event since he's on the shows proclaiming he isn't. Heh. It's the same thing with this. Facing the facts isn't bashing. :eyes:

[OzarkDem]

44. Along with the other talking points

about how its New Orleans fault for building a city below sea level, its all those people's fault for not evacuating and how the biggest problem is all the evil looters.

One freeper I talked to today blamed people for not taking enough food and clothes with them along with all their cash so they could buy gas and rent a hotel room. Guess they didn't have time to cash in their stocks and bonds.

[Cha]

54. They should be in a fucking

CAT 5 hurricane and then find out what they brought with them..

And, yes, I have been..you feel lucky to be alive. But, we had it good compared to what's happened to New Orleans!

[MojoXN]

79. Miami in '92 perhaps?

I used to live in Miami, and heard stories a plenty about the wrath of Andrew. After hearing of the chaos and destruction time and again, I decided to look for video footage of the damage. Damn... That's all I can say. And from what I've seen of N. O., it's MUCH worse than Miami or anywhere else in the past century, with respect to the U.S., anyway. The tsunami last year in microcosm. I just hope that everyone who is still in New Orleans and the rest of the region can get out safely. They've seen enough suffering for ten lifetimes...

MojoXN

[Cha]

83. Right year, different State.

I was on Kauai on 9/11/92 for hurricane Iniki.


This link says it's a CAT 4..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Iniki

This says it's a CAT 5..
http://theepicenter.com/the_tale.html

Cat 5..
http://www.hawaiian.net/~videohi/iniki.html

Did you know about this one?

[MojoXN]

99. No, I didn't!

I guess that Andrew got all the press back then. Giant storms like these are so far removed from everyday experience that it's hard to comprehend just how utterrly destructive they can be. I just hope that the N.O. area isn't hit again before the season's over. That's the last thing that those poor people need.

MojoXN

[chomskysright]

177. Yes, but WHO to attack: its the Republicans, not the Dems for laying low..

again, I believe that Reid is allowing Bush to dig his own grave.

[chomskysright]

178. Yes, but WHO to attack: its the Republicans, not the Dems for laying low..

again, I believe that Reid is allowing Bush to dig his own grave.

[chomskysright]

179. Yes, but WHO to attack: its the Republicans, not the Dems for laying low..

again, I believe that Reid is allowing Bush to dig his own grave.

[DesEtoiles]

22. ignored

[Rose Siding]

Is it ok for the refugees to bash him?

snip>
Some people at Wednesday's rally were refugees from Hurricane Katrina, and the disaster in the Southeast wasn't far from anyone's minds.

"I think it's important to connect these two things. We should be focused on America right now, not what's happening in Iraq with this natural disaster. It's important to have as many of our National Guard folks back here to support that effort," Sheehan said.

http://www.news8austin.com/content/headlines/?ArID=144593&SecID=2

Or how about the young man on the street in NO who cursed him in an interview with msnbc?

[aquart]

24. Stuff it.

[leesa]

25. You do realize you are completely, hopelessly wrong, right?

[Gman]

26. Bullshit!

This ain't 9/11. It's time to stick this whole thing, Katrina and gas prices right up his ass!

Sorry :spank:

[teach1st]

28. The only thing disrespectful...

...is allowing the drunk driver to continue driving so we don't appear disrespectful.

[NightOwwl]

29. Yeah, let's just wait awhile before we call him on his incompetence...

and lack of leadership. Just ignore it for now...people will catch on to the truth eventually.

Gee, were you on Kerry's campaign staff by any chance?

[Gyre]

30. shrub is in season year round!

Jeebuss! You probably think it would be in bad taste to call him out on Christmas too! I think I'll make that choice myself, thanks anyways.:evilgrin:

Gyre

[la la]

34. I'll bash bush

any time I feel he deserves it. which is 99% of the time.

We're told not to bash him because of his illegal war and now - don't bash him because there's been a natural disaster. Bullshit - he's the reason for the bush bashing season.

[Mad_Dem_X]

103. Agreed - same thing they said after 9/11

Well, pardon my language, but fuck this "being nice" shit. Part of the reason this country is in the situation it's in is because good people were too concerned with "being nice" than being truthful. It's time to take off the kid gloves and start calling this administration on its lies and incompetence. Sometimes, the truth ain't pretty.

[ThoughtCriminal]

32. For boards outside of DU, I'm saving up

waiting for the first freep on the boards I hang out on to blame Clinton, Democrats or liberals for the disaster or gas prices or to praise Bush for his leadership. And them I'm just going to unload.

So far, they are wisely avoiding the subject. These are non-political boards so I'm not going to start a fight, but my flame finger is itching.

[Azathoth]

33. What do you think Rove is doing right now?

He and his staff are sitting up right now in late night strategy sessions trying to figure out how to turn this into 9/11 part 2. They're planning photo ops, vetting survivors to see if they would be convincing in campaign commercials, digging through Clinton-era records to see how the blame can be shifted onto Clinton, etc. Hell, they're probably buying up bullhorns on ebay in preparation for another one of Dubya's heroic "impromptu" speeches to rescue workers. Within days, every GOP politican will be marching in lockstep, praising Bush's heroic response and spewing their talking points on every news show they can get booked on. We have to get out ahead of that. Mindless Bush-bashing won't help our cause, but if we let the inevitable Rove PR blitz go unanswered, Dubya's approval ratings will be back in the sixties by mid September.

[chomskysright]

180. EXCELLENT POINT: Crawl around in Rove's head and what do you see:

how to create victory out of tragedy.

INNOCULATE YOURSELVES, people!
And so with knowledge, power:
So, what is our strategy: To keep up the decibel level of the tragedy. They WILL march in lockstep. We need to keep the media at the level of the tragic so as to counter this.

[hatrack]

35. This is satire, right?

I'll be sure to check in with you so that you can verify when it's OK for me to start expressing my political views on the biggest natural disaster in the last 100 years and the most fucked-up, arrogant, callous and outright incompetent response to that very disaster.

Please, PM me so that you can let me know when it's OK for me to express my partisan political leanings.

Tell me, do you have any useful tips on how to reach out to swing voters and appeal to anti-abortion conservative Christian fundamentalists who might be offended if I were to express my partisan political leanings?

I sure hope that if I restrain myself and don't express any partisan political leanings (and if maybe other DUers and Democrats and candidates do the same), we'll be able to lose Congressional districts in Mississippi, Alabama and Lousiana by a somewhat less overwhelming margin in 2006.

Can't wait!

:eyes:

[TankLV]

60. No - the OP just joined so he could scold dems and warn us about our

etiquette.

Did you advise the Kerry camp regarding the attacks on HIS service and his "correct" and "proper" responses to the swiftboaters, too?

Search his name and you'll see where his loyalties lie.

[Julius Civitatus]

36. BULLCRAP!!!

This disaster has revealed a MASSIVE CRISIS OF LEADERSHIP and a tremendous unpreparedness to face an event of this magnitud.

[Spiffarino]

37. Not when the shoe fits.

He is just like his daddy: Completely disconnected from real people with real problems. He reluctantly cut his 5-week vacation short by two days - but wait! - he still had time to see a ball game and deliver a speech in San Diego!

Criticize away. It will stick, just like it did to his father when he was also slow in responding to the crisis of Hurricane Andrew in South Florida.

Bush is a lazy, spoiled, egotistical snob. Unless he or his handlers do something brilliant to save his ass, he's in deeper trouble than ever.

Furthermore, I'm all about piling on. Nobody deserves it more richly than he.

[LittleClarkie]

38. Why not? The Republicans are saying it. Can't we just blend in with them?

And pretend we're Americans.

Waiting a few weeks means it won't be fresh on people's minds anymore.

[chomskysright]

181. No, you stay at the level of the tragic and u keep the media focused on th

[BrewerJohn]

39. Yeah, don't say anything bad about Bush...

Because he's so popular an' stuff right now.

:eyes:

[Julius Civitatus]

47. Oh yeah! He's such a "popular wartime president"...

Right...

:spray:

[Catchawave]

40. Actually, true facts are bashing Bush right now,

not DUers. For example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2049277

[chomskysright]

182. THAT'S RIGHT! If we can keep the media focused on the facts...

the Repug lock step will wilt.

[librechik]

216. EXACTLY!! The dems don't have any power anyway. Let the Puglies

deal with the uglies. They're awake now.

[OzarkDem]

42. You're joking, right?

If Aaron Brown on CNN thinks its ok to bash him, along with several other journalists in the corporate media, well, I'd say its open season.

[Julius Civitatus]

45. Anderson Cooper said the FEMA coordination has been a mess

and looked very pissed off at the disastrous response and preparation.

He minced no words!

[OzarkDem]

53. The news media are seeing more than they're reporting

I get the impression they're holding back a lot of what is going on for fear of inflaming people. They won't be able to keep a lid on it much longer as the survivors start raising hell.

[chomskysright]

183. YES! keep the media focused on the facts: letters to editors

[TankLV]

48. Same crap "they" told us after 911. FUCK THAT SHIT!

If not now - WHEN?

When was it ever "the right time" to criticize the criminal after 911? According to some we STILL should sit down and shut up!

Well, NO FUCKING WAY!

ATTACK! ATTACK HARD! ATTACK LOUD! ATTACK OFTEN!

but ATTACK!

But we expect you to show up here to bash the democrats here - just like clockwork! Never miss a beat to tell us all what "we" should be doing, especially if it's any criticism of your beloved "leader"!

[electron_blue]

50. sorry, no.

[Lecky]

51. I agree with the OP

I think that some people on here are so angry that they are not thinking straight. I can't think of a worse time to start screaming partisan political rhetoric than right now...

:crazy:

[Julius Civitatus]

56. It's never a good time, apparently

No matter how badly they screw up!

[OzarkDem]

58. Oh really

and what do you think are the consequences of restating the obvious - that Bush is badly mishandling everything?

Do you also criticize the Republicans who are doing the same?

[Lecky]

65. Yes really

Can you tell me how this benefits those in need right now? I'm sure most of them really give a rip about fucking politics at the moment. :sarcasm:

[leesa]

124. It's not about politics. It's about responsibility and doing one's job.

[DancingBear]

55. Hey Lieberman - what'cha doin' on DU? n/t

[tjdee]

57. He cut NO disaster funding by 71 MIL in a year. So no, it's not political

suicide.

The New Orleans' Army Corps of Engineers' budget was slashed by 71 million dollars.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367

One of their projects? Ways to protect the city from a Category 5 hurricane.

This man is a danger to the nation, and obviously has no idea what the hell he's doing.

Or maybe we shouldn't say anything, and wait for the next disaster that we won't be prepared for/respond correctly for because of him?

[flaminbats]

59. my hero!!!

Bush does care, and it makes me feel better..despite long gas lines or five bucks per gallon. I feel so sorry for the excessive burden this puts on his pretty back, we really are expecting too much from him in return for our taxes!! :eyes:

[Singular73]

70. Yeah, I said that.

I forget.

[flaminbats]

75. wow, say it louder next time.

paying taxes and expecting something in return still doesn't give us a right to criticize. Why should anyone expect clean water or public utilities in return for paying bills?

[rniel]

121. Yes

After all he's had his 6 week vacation cut short. Poor guy. We should not have done that to him. He needs his rest and relaxation. Just because we've got a national disaster here. We complain too much. Don't we.

[chomskysright]

188. My sign in neighborhood: GOT NO GAS?JUST KEEP VOTING...

FOR THOSE REPUBLICANS. There's a twisted logic that has to be grasped re: all of this somehow.

[ocd liberal]

61. Don't take away the only joy

that has come from this whole situation!

[Mr_Spock]

62. I'm such a moran!!

Why didn't I think of that. Forgot the SS will be reading this, hate to get thrown in the gulag for criticizing dur furor.

[Dinger]

64. "Wrong" Doesn't Even Come Close

to the evil that is bu$h & co. All I can say, is if your read the Bible, don't read the book of Revelation right now. Also, don't watch the movie "The Seventh Sign." Scary stuff.

[senseandsensibility]

66. No I DO not realize

but thanks for checking, and thanks for the patronizing lecture.

[jenmito]

67. I disagree.

Chris Matthews said, "There are no Repubs. and Dems. today. We are all Americans." BS!!! This is not just a natural catastrophe-Bush cut funding to protect them against this very thing in order to spend more money in IRAQ! Then he had the nerve to remain on vacation, give a speech connecting Iraq to WWII and mention Katrina for the first minute or two, and then have his speech-writers whip him up a speech to give in the Rose Garden. He used his "tough guy/serious face" where he frowns and sticks out his tongue and I was disgusted.

[Singular73]

68. Yeah, you folks are right

It certainly serves our interests to blame Bush for the non-responsiveness and the cut to funding, because its simple for the average person to translate that into blaming Bush for the hurricane (which is, of course, ludicrous).

Now, I know. I HAVE to believe that my side can keep two divergent points of view in their heads at the same time.

Example:

Support the Troops, not the War.

Takes a bit of thinking, right? Not much, but a little. Perhaps too much for some of our Freeper friends.

Same thing here. Yes, Bush fucked up, like usual, on cutting the spending to reinforce the levy, BUT the message you are sending right now is "Blame Bush for the Hurricane".

It has nothing to do with the truth, it has nothing to do with the minutiae of what is happening, and what could have been done to prevent it, but it is, so to speak, blowing the load of what could be used just a little bit later.

[Zenlitened]

78. I haven't seen a post yet that even came close to...

... "blaming Bush for the hurricane."

Everything I've read discussed the situation in terms of preparedness and response time.

Is there another Democratic Underground I'm not aware of?

:shrug:

[RandomKoolzip]

106. You can read, right?

There hasn't been a SINGLE DUer who has "blamed Bush for the Hurricane."

What we are blaming him FOR is cutting FEMA's budget, cutting the funding to programs that could have ameliorated much of the damage this hurricane has wrought, and generally acting like he doesn't give a fuck about the poor people stuck foodless, homeless, jobless, and waterless in New Orleans.

Find me ONE poster who specifically "blames Bush for the hurricane" and maybe you'll have a point.

And frankly, I don't give a FUCK what the right thinks of our dialogue right now. No matter what we say, they'll always hate us and find ways to spin whatever we say (you know, like what YOU'RE doing right now)....so why not actually tell the unvarnished truth?

[marions ghost]

212. Oh puleeze....

--if there are ANY average Americans who believe that lefties "blame Bush for the hurricane" ... we should just write them off as lost souls. I don't believe they are average Americans anyway.

Why should we care about "our freeper friends?" We don't need these delusional people, and never have. We should focus on the fat cats and neo-cons in positions of power who know very WELL what's going on. They must be held accountable. We should not get caught up trying to appease the Sheeple who worship at the neo-con altar, or reacting to their stupid views. Total waste of time.

Your arguments are ridiculous, singular73

---------------------------------------

"The question is not whether we will be extremist but what kind of extremist will we be. Will we be extremists for hate or will we be extremists for love? Will we be extremists for the preservation of injustice-or will we be extremists for the cause of justice? In that dramatic scene on Calvary's hill, three men were crucified for the same crime - the crime of extremism. Two were extremists for immorality, and thus fell below their environment. So, after all, maybe the South, the nation and the world are in dire need of creative extremists."

(MLK--Letter From Birmingham Jail)

[bonzotex]

71. No......Not even...You're kidding? Right?

Hunter at Daily Kos puts it this way:

"A lot of people are going to huff and bluster about making this disaster a political issue. Put bluntly, however, what government does and does not choose to spend money on for the essential safety of its citizens is a political issue, and a very basic one at that. The administration willfully reduced the budget for the protective levees around New Orleans to a level where even maintaining the current levee height was impossible, in order to shift that Corps money into Iraq. I'd say that's a political big deal.

Pouring guns and gold into Iraq while ignoring basic aspects of America's own domestic safety was a risk that the Bush administration was willing to take. Now the neo-cons of the administration and their tubthumping supporters have a vivid demonstration of why pumping money into Iraq combined with deficit-causing tax cuts combined with cutting basic domestic safety programs has results a bit more sanguinary than the careful spreadsheets of either Karl Rove or Grover Norquist might convey.

After 9/11, the administration was eager to put Bush at the top of the "pile", a cheap show of determination in the aftermath of disaster. Somehow, I don't think Bush standing atop one of these shattered levees and speaking through a bullhorn to the citizens of New Orleans would have the same effect right now."

The Bush Administration's lack of preparation and lack of appropriate urgent response on this disaster is a fair issue. Bush's personal actions are fair game. Bashing? Tell the truth and Bushbots feel bashed? Fuck em!

[Singular73]

72. So, you don't ever feel that

...there is EVER a time to wait to put out the Truth?

I understand the disgust some people may have at the notion of waiting for something to be politically viable vs. just screaming the Truth from the rooftops.

I understand that.

But we are trying to win elections here.

[bonzotex]

88. i want to win elections too

Elections are more often than not won for emotional not rational reasons. In the reality based community we wish it were otherwise, but it's not. I think you greatly overestimate how willing people will be to circle the wagons and protect Dubya from the mean old liberals on this issue.

Riding a wave of anti-Bush anger due to Katrina is not a losing proposition. It may be distasteful to many people, but so what? I find it distasteful that thousands of Americans died both in Bush's wars and now in his failure to adequately plan and provide for a foreseeable catastrophe.

There are intelligent ways to do this. We go in with the facts. This disaster was demonstrably worse than it might have been directly because of Republican policies. We don't have to be shrill, but we can't ignore this right now.

Finally, if you wait three of four weeks, Rove and the repug spin machine will manufacture another distraction to take their failures on the Gulf Coast out of the news cycle.

[bonzotex]

89. delete...duplicate n/t

[bonzotex]

91. we do agree that Bush is hanging himself quite well

The difference?

You want to watch.

I want to pull on his legs until he stops kicking.

[chomskysright]

185. WELL SAID: we want to watch Bush hang himself and keep the media...

focused on the facts which include the human tragedy. this sounds very calculating but if you do not move to 'very calculating' you will not lick these bastards.

[WyLoochka]

95. A-Ha I figured it out

You're Al From aren't you? Elections are won by shutting up about the truth - brilliant, Al - simply brilliant.

[bonzotex]

96. that's just mean! n/t

[Frederik]

141. Exactly

People are dying right now because of the POLITICAL PRIORITIES OF THIS ADMINISTRATION. It IS political. Let's not pretend it isn't.

[kentuck]

73. You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows...

People understand. We don't have to tell them?

[Julius Civitatus]

74. Tell that to the editorial board of the NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/opinion/01thu1.html

Ka-boom!!!

[Julius Civitatus]

76. and to the Sun Herald of Biloxi...

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001052870

[Julius Civitatus]

77. or to the conservative Union Leader of New Hampshire...

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001052874

[wli]

80. we can't afford to wait for another catastrophe to strike n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

81. All that and no reference to the 'Democrat' party?

:popcorn:

[Dave Sund]

82. Bush Is Not A Leader

He sat and listened to "My Pet Goat" in the face of 9/11.
He took three days to actually respond to the events of the hurricane, and that response sucked.

Fuck polls.

Let's quit FOLLOWING public opinion and start SHAPING it!

[FogerRox]

84. Breaking NEWS BUSH is inducted

watch the hurricane story vanish

[Theduckno2]

85. Given the ways the Bush Administration handles later criticism,

such as; dismissing as old news or accusing the critics of trying to rewrite history, I respectively disagree Singular73.

Where we may find common ground though is in an analogy about a worker who is always pointing out problems to their superiors (whiner! ). The employee that points out the problems AND provides possible solutions is the appreciated employee.

Pointing out Bush's failures will keep Bushco from writing its own history of Katrina, but solutions to this catastrophe will be what puts this in our (and the nations) win column.

Suggestions: Immediate "strict" enforcement of highway speed limits. Further restrictions on ATV use on federal lands.

Cancelling schools in nearby minimumly affected areas to free up school busses for the evacuation of New Orleans. Transfer of shallow draft boats, including air boats, from federal agencies to assist in the evacuation and patrols to prevent looting.

[chomskysright]

186. bush Bush admins handling of criticism is part of figuring this landscape

out. Get inside Rove's head, I tell you. Like that movie on being John Malkovitch, what do you see?

[chomskysright]

187. On being (John Malkovitch) Karl Rove: what's in his head NOW?

you've seen the movie. So, what does Karl Rove see right now? This is not a zen koan puzzle.....

[Hippo_Tron]

87. The national guard is in Iraq and not in my city, who's fault is that?

I'm not bashing him for stupid shit like photo ops, I have a real legitimate beef.

BTW, my dad's Republican friends that we are staying with right now are questioning whether Bush is going to properly handle this situation.

[Blue_In_AK]

90. We don't have to bash...

He's doing it to himself. Anyone who's paying attention can see that he's not on top of this disaster.

[montana500]

92. thx, Joe Leiberman. nm

nm

[onenote]

93. criticize, but wisely

the problem isn't with people who are levelling informed criticism at Bush. That is appropriate and necessary. It is with those who are just lashing out, attacking indiscriminately anything and everything that Chimpy or the adminsitration does. For example, Bush is criticized for not ending his vactation sooner. But that criticism, while valid on certain levels, has to be made carefully. Why? Well, consider the following: When Hurricane Floyd was threatening the Carolina coast in 1999, President Clinton was in New Zealand for a state visit. To his enormous credit, he accelerated his return so he could be in Washington for the relief effort. However, a transcript of his final press briefing in New Zealand starts (and ends) with him joking with the press about a round of golf he played that day. The storm, which was due to hit Carolina in little more than 24 hours, was mentioned in between discussions of golf. I think the two situations can be distinguished, but the point is that if we make criticisms of Bush and then have to spend time arguing that what Clinton did was different, we're losing the battle. But if we keep the criticisms at the proper level...policy choices, not personal attacks...we've got him nailed.

onenote

[kodi]

97. not if you frame it right.

thus:

"geeze, what a tragedy. i sympathize with those poor folks. we have to be sure it does not happen again. we have to make those levees stronger than ever before. why didn't they hold up in the first place? isn't the government supposed to make sure those sorts of things do not happen? how did it happen? were they not good enough to hold up? why weren't they? didn't anyone know? what? funding was cut to keep them functioning? how did that happen? oh, the president and the congress cut the funding? i guess they had their reasons? what? the corps of engineers told the president and congress it did not have enough funding to keep them operating? why would the president and congress not listen to the experts?"

as to "showing" who is responsible: it is a matter of public record who is responsible; george bush and the republican congress who cut funding to re-allocate funds to the iraq war so they would not have to raise taxes on rich people.

the american people are dumb, but not stupid. they can see right on their television sets those broken levees and know damn right well it is the government's job to secure them. and they can figure out that someone fucked up, bad. and they know that it was not the liberal media's fault that they are now paying a dollar more for a gallon of gas than they did a week ago.

americans awoke this week to the realization that the "rugged individualism" pushed by the busheviks is meaningless in a catastrophe of this magnitude and that the only way to secure their lives and property is to work as a team, and that team is team america.

[Neshanic]

98. Now the DLC has a "night triangulation shift" person on staff.

[CWebster]

100. Is this satire?

If not, the juxtaposition of your political art is true irony.

[renie408]

101. Bullshit...My REPUKE friends are bashing him...

Yesterday the most Republican soccer mom I know was pissed at Bush for his slow response to Katrina and for gas prices. I think all this 'high road' bullshit is what got us in trouble in the last election. I think that we should take one from the Republican playbook and for once, PRESS an advantage.

But since the pussy Dems we have elected are all still to scared of Karl Rove to squeak, I don't think they will.

Oh, and you are STAGGERINGLY wrong about pointing fingers in the face of a disaster. People are always looking for somebody to blame. In this case, 'Blame Bush' sounds good to me.

[sendero]

102. You realize..

.... that you are full of shit, right?

[Lochloosa]

104. I completely DISAGREE

Bash Long and Loud. Make people pay attention to what Bush is doing or not doing right now. In three weeks when you start bashing him then it will be labled as partisan. SPEAK UP NOW...MAKE PEOPLE PAY ATTENTION TO THE ASSHOLE NOW...REMIND THEM HE WAS ON VACATION TILL TUESDAY. REMIND THEM HE WAS SPEAKING ABOUT SS ON MONDAY. REMIND THEM WHERE HE WAS STAYING. MAKE THEM PAY ATTENTION NOW!

[rhett o rick]

105. Are you serious? or pulling our leg? Who are we worried about offending

Those that follow Bush aren't about to thank us for giving Bushy a temporary reprieve. Will he ask his wealthy friends to give up profiting from the War or high gas prices? Not for a second. He is partially responsible for the massive damage in NO. He is completely responsible for the delayed response and the depleted National Guard. If you were kidding, you got me. If you weren't, you obviously don't recognize the extent of trouble this Country is in.

[TheWatcher]

108. This country is in one of the Greatest Crisis' of our HISTORY

We have a man that cannot think, speak, or act coherently running this country, Our Economy and way of life could very well be entering a Death Spiral, We have LOST THE MOST MAJOR PORT CITY in the country, and we are seeing no leadership from Bush or his Cronies.

And you are worried about not offending anyone and winning elections?

Get Bent and Get Lost.

You have no clear understanding of what is unfolding around you.

Edited to add: This is a response to the ORIGINAL POSTER, not rhett o rick.

[rhett o rick]

138. I agree. It is never a bad time to demand a decent leader. We can't wait

for the crisis to be over first. The NO crisis is only a part of the bigger crisis. WHAT NEXT?

[SoCalifer]

107. That is so much BS

You do realize that by criticizing the obvious during the moment, makes the criticism difficult to duck away from and launch counter criticisms, Right?

Not too unlike a Rape victim reporting a Rape immediately as opposed to "waiting" to report it.

[FreedomAngel82]

109. LOL

And you know damn well that if this happened during Clinton he would be blamed too. Grow a damn spine. Bush is to blame. He cut tons of funding that could have helped even more.

[RandomKoolzip]

110. You do realize that this post is hilarious, right?

Okay, lemme get this straight......you come on to a liberal political message board, get registered to post, you post during Bush's lowest approval ratings EVER on a forum called "General Discussion: Politics," and admonish us for talking liberal politics?!

That's Dada for ya.

[robbedvoter]

112. uh, more "disaster immunity" for your boy? The 911 hero that is?

Not criticizing is not enough - let's praise him! I say, NO wouldn't be in the news if it weren't for fearless leader! (Just like he put NYC on the map 4 years ago)

[FreedomAngel82]

114. I notice your signature

Why don't you get a clue from it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

118. Perhaps that is why even far-left elected officials, who usually

pull no punches when it comes to Bush, are not criticizing him.

[Arkana]

119. Nope, sorry.

People are incensed at him right now because he's refused to get off his rich ass and help the country through this.

[derby378]

123. Bush committed political suicide by not returning to DC after Katrina hit

You can't kill what's already dead.

[Bridget Burke]

125. No. And this is above politics.

Bush gutted FEMA & sent the National Guard overseas. And he took his own sweet time to even pretend he cares. People are dying & a city is being destroyed. Bush et al have contributed to the problem & are still contributing.

Why the HELL are you using that graphic while you counsel us to shut up?

[Zodiak]

126. I disagree with the OP

But I defend that person's right to say it and offer an admonition to those who would use condescending, derisive comments to make a counterpoint. If you disagree, just disagree, and refrain from accusing that person of being a GOP mole or an Al From plant.

Being nice and waiting are the instincts of an empathetic person.....it is not the right strategy to go with to win at this point, but it is understandable for a progressive to feel that way in light of all the bruises we have taken for pointing out th truth in the past.

It is time to push Bush out because he is up against the ropes. There is no time to allow the Rove spin machine and the lapdog media to frame these issues for us. There are people dying, and any pressure and embarrassment we can put on Bush now might spur him to actualy get some more help to NO before more people die from neglect (he has been embarrassed into acting before).

It not ALL about politics...there are people's lives at stake and every minute counts.

[Brewman_Jax]

127. Give him another disaster pass?

I don't think so. Remember, the RW didn't stay nice and quiet for Clinton, did they?

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jose Diablo]

129. Hmm, this post reminds me of the time

The 'moderate' Repubs/Dems in the Senate reached a compromise to forestall the nuclear option, and thus allowed 3 of the worst appellate judges to take a seat in the judiciary. And here in DU, we were told that we must 'compromise' or else we will lose.

Then there is the time before the last elections when we were told we must 'compromise' and get behind anybody but Bu$h. Remember this?

And now, it will be really, really bad if we criticize Bu$h at the wrong time, because it will seem to be petty partisan bickering.

Is anybody else growing weary of all this decorum and civility? Seems to me, this party's greatest need is a new spine.

I think now is the time to burn Bu$h a new asshole, while the fire is hot and before KKKarl has time to divert attention.

[nolabels]

130. The time for compromise passed when they shot JFK

Like how many years does it take before people get what's going on?

[chomskysright]

189. YES: quickly burn Bush a new asshole

[DemBones DemBones]

131. Psst! I've been hearing some very unhappy red state Bush* voters

this week. Lots of comments about how we should be looking after our own people instead of being in Iraq.

But if you want to wear the pink tutu, be my guest.

[rman]

133. I thought we were way past "bashing Bush makes us look bad".

The DLC tried that - didn't work, and ever since it turned out that critisism of the Bush administration is quite popular amongst the populace.

[supernova]

134. Hell No, It's Not

And I'll tell you why.

Look, we can rant and rave on DU all we like. None of us are elected officials who set policy. Some of us are; but as a group we are not. While a good percentage of DUers are poltically active, myself included, we are private citizens venting on a private chat board.

Secondly, we have known for quite some time that when the rubber meets the road * wouldn't be able to handle it. We have been clamoring ever since the first bogus inauguration that * is all bluster with little to do execpt, "clear brush."

In short, it is not news to anyone that we on DU will continue to call * out on his hyper, eog-driven need to "be in charge; to take command." Command of what? His vacation plans? His need to wage a useless war to prove he has a dick? His need weak-willed need to outperform his father?

We should continue to hold his feet to the fire until people start seeing the empty shell of a "leader" he really is. And you know what, Katrina just may do us a big fat favor. :popcorn:

So, my point is DO BOTH!

[iconoclastNYC]

135. totally disagree.

You can't attack the man, attack his lack of response....people are literally dying because this man coudln't cut short his vacation.

The NEW YORK TIMES editorial sums it up....LA had to wait for a leader. Clinton would have been back at the White House three days before this storm hit shore.

Why?

Because he cares. He's not a spoiled frat boy neo-con puppet.

America needs a leader, not a puppet of the Right.

[Stockholm]

136. It is never "wrong" to bash * unless you support him and his polices n/t

[nyhuskyfan]

137. It took CRITICISM and public outcry to get him to do anything...

When the Tsunami hit. We are just going with what works.

People need help, people are dying, and he's eating cake and strumming a guitar. I think we're doing the victims a disservice if we don't voice our criticisms now.

[Frederik]

139. Bullshit

What the Hell are you talking about? Bush is reponsible for the scandalous and unprecedented unpreparedness and lack of response we're seeing now. It's Bush bashing time like it has never been before. Tell mayor Nagin that "there is such a thing as timing".

"trying to push the "It's Bush's fault" will ultimately strengthen him right now"

Seriously, that must be a joke?

Jeesus.

[NiteOwll]

140. No way!

People are still dying, it happens NOW!

[Lerkfish]

142. sorry, vehemently disagree -- time is critical. If we can't goad them into

action, then what does that tell you?

[enough already]

143. Screw this

Bush's fucked up environmental policies caused this. He's doing NOTHING to help. I'll be damned if I'm going to keep quiet any longer.

[Usrename]

144. I believe the fratricide is far more damaging right now

I was losing it last night over the Landrieu story. Everyone piling on. Listen, she can take care of herself, of course, but this is not the time for her to start with the 'I told you so' routine. She did a remarkable job with Anderson IMHO, considering the circumstances. He should have been on a feed with a repuke public official. She is Rove's worst, worst nightmare. She has been prophetic on this disaster and they just told her to go to Hell. She is dangerous for the other side. They will cut her from the herd and destroy her. Once she is discredited, she is neutralized. No longer important. Her story is the MOST COMPELLING story of this disaster and Rove knows it. Please check this out.

[Dora]

145. Okay, it's been two days since this was posted...

And is it TIME yet? Can we say what we think yet? Can we point our fingers yet, because let me tell you, I have an unbearable itch in a finger here, and I'm just rarin' to point it at Bush, and I'm ready to point it at you too.

We cannot, and must not, silence ourselves.

[CWebster]

146. Along the lines of DLC orders not to critcize but to line up behind

da chimp. And look where that got us.

[Douglas Carpenter]

147. ya, remember how lining up behind Bush after 9/11 really helped us?

Of course the GOP strategist are already plotting against progressive forces right now wondering how they can us this tragedy to their advantage...but this time we cannot let them do it.

No, I think we have the public with us this time. At the very least we need to remind people that there are real consequences to incompetent government.

[CWebster]

148. and Clinton linking arms and uniting with the incompetents

exactly helps how?

The perception will be that they are all cut from the same cloth---and looky here, clinton supports Bush, so the Democrats all must be...lining up too.

[woo me with science]

149. Are you insane?

I am a moderate Dem and see a LOT of posters criticizing Bush for things that I think are absolutely outside of his range of influence, or things that they would not hesitate to defend if he happened to have a "D" after his name. I worry about partisan nitpickers and tin foil hatters who make Dems look bad.

But THIS situation?????!!!!!!!??????

FEMA has been a disaster. There is CHAOS out there, and there is no acceptable excuse for it. This is INEXCUSABLE for a situation in which there were days of warning about this particular storm and YEARS of warning about the potential for a storm like this. Given the predictions about how disastrous this would be, there is NO EARTHLY EXCUSE for expecting state and local governments to be able to manage this themselves. THE FEDERAL GOVT DROPPED THE BALL.

If there were ever a time in which criticism was justified, this is it.

Not to mention that it is ONLY THROUGH SCREAMING ABOUT THIS that anything WILL get done. I think Bush is trying to spring into action now, because he is finally getting the message that this is serious. Not just to the people down there, but to his own political survival. It's a sad truth but that might be the motivator that finally gets to him.

[belle]

150. And not doing it is murder...

...troll.

[NoPasaran]

151. Fuck Bush and every mealymouthed moron who licks his boots today!

Fuck them all to hell!

[magnetism]

152. I totally agree with you

There is a time and a place and this is neither. Personally, I am disgusted with not only Shrub, but also EVERY politician at this moment. It is during a reflection of this MASSIVE catastrophe that I understand NO government official will save us during a grave disaster. We must stop yelling at each other, roll up our sleeves and SAVE THESE PEOPLE! Every time!

There will be time later to blame ALL of our corrupt government officials.

[Lerkfish]

158. sorry, but the right wing never likes to have fingers pointed when guilty

precisely the time they should be pointed.

do you really think this psyop attack will work?

[chomskysright]

195. LET BUSH DIG HIS GRAVE AND KEEP THE MEDIA FOCUSED

with pictures on the tragedy.

[mdguss]

154. You're Wrong--Bush won't benefit this Time:

With 9-11 it was different because there was somebody to blame. Conservatism is at its best when they have a boogeyman to blame. There's nobody to blame for this other than the President; there was a total lack of planning; we, four years after 9-11, remain totally unprepared for a massive disaster that we all knew was only a matter of time. The "nobody could've foreseen the levee breaking," line that they've already trotted out sounds like BS political spin. It's hard for that line to work when there's a seven year old study that predicted this very thing and dozens of other articles that talk about the same thing.

When Bush himself says things aren't going right, there's no way they can criticize Democrats for saying the same thing.

Bush's approval rating will be down 10 to 20 points next week. The same kind of rudderless leadership happend. But he got himself out of it with a good leadership. That happend because he had somebody to blame and therefore a plan. That's not happening now. And, because of the circumstances, it won't happen.

There's a fine line between criticizing him and calling him names. Call him incompetent. Say this is a national embarassment. Don't call him a fascist dictator. He's merely incompetent.

[IChing]

155. I hope this was sarcasm, but you do realize

if it wasn't
that you are hopelessly wrong

[crispini]

156. I have family in the gulf, and I TOTALLY DISAGREE. nt

[Julius Civitatus]

159. You realize that wearing PINK TUTUS is out of fashion?

Just checking.

[Bonobo]

161. Bullshit.

[zann725]

162. Pleeeze! If not now, when?

I would say welcome Newbie, but this IS a time to complain big-time.

[dogday]

164. WRONG!

Talked to anyone who has suffered through this experience and they will tell you they are looking for someone to blame for not helping them for 4 days. Because of the heat and no water, people are dying within a few days and who would be responsible for that?


Reporter come in and reported the situation, why not the guard. President flew over NO, why not do some drops of water and food if planes could fly over?

I would say Federal response time was squat on this...

[Rude Horner]

166. I think this post was suicide

The ONLY way that we are going to get this administrations ass in gear about this disaster is to put pressure on NOW! Put their feet to the fire! And it's not just us - it's the media too! In these past couple of days I've seen the media screaming about this piss poor effort of a rescue.

Can you imagine how much feet dragging would still be going on if we were all sitting around here, the media included, and saying "well, they're doing the best they can under these circumstances"?

BULLSHIT! This is life and death and this is no time to sit back and do and say nothing.

[Douglas Carpenter]

227. amen

my thoughts exactly

[grumpy old fart]

168. If he's being called out, and the pics are there, and he does nothing....

as he has done...it's gonna kill him. Just look at the freepers. They aren't being critical of the criticism, they are decrying the failings of their chimperor. It's a beautiful thing to see, the scales falling from the eyes of the faithful.

[Don Claybrook]

184. Don't bogart the crack pipe

Is there some angel dust in there with the crack?

[shireen]

190. get real!

Some people have this odd notion that politics can be separated from other aspects of life.

WRONG!

Politics IS life. Every person we elect is put in the position of making life and death decisions on our behalf.

So I'm gonna keep screaming for Bush's impeachment. He's the prez; the buck stops where he stands.

[lucca]

191. I will keep on bashing * !

I am sick of his crap. I have had it.

Political suicide to bash * now?
I disagree.
I don't care about that.
* has destroyed this country.
I will not sit back and wait for the "right time".

I feel sorrow and pain for our fellow Americans that are dying and suffering.
My heart breaks.
I am so angry.

I will not wait.
The moment is now.
We need to take back our country.

[Raster]

192. There has NEVER been a BETTER TIME to tell the simple truth!

The * pResidency has been un unmitigated disaster for our nation and our planet. It is time to stop this nammy-pammy bullshit. Criticize long and loud.

[animuscitizen]

197. Some reason in a sea of irrationality

Bush bashing doesn't solve the problems in NOLA. The lack of adequate response will be properly critiqued--at the appropriate time. In the midst of this disaster and chaos, partisan politics seems like a waste of time and energy.

[CWebster]

198. except the lack is never critiqued at the proper time

whenever that is...Like the war, it just goes on and on and gets worse and worse, and nobody says boo. Wonder what it will take for that appropriate hour to come. Poor dark-skinned Iraqis imprisoned and dying on the street and poor dark-skinned Americans imprisoned and dying on the street, just don't seem important enough to be the appropriate time.

[animuscitizen]

199. Whatever

People in NOLA are dying, starving, and in a state of anarchy. Saving people is important at this moment. I received a text message from a friend two days ago--stuck in an apartment in the Quarter--afraid to walk the streets. This meaningless discussion serves no purpose at this time. I'm sure people stuck in attics, starving, going into diabetic coma, and scared for their lives really want energy to be focused on the blame game in this moment. I am going to return to reading some more useful sources of information. I have missing friends and relatives in that area. If you want to continue expending energy with idle banter, be my guest.

[Don Claybrook]

210. get the fuck down there, then

We're trying to stop what evil we can. If you don't agree with the methodology or the content, and you have friends in trouble, get off your goddamned computer and head south. What in the fuck are you waiting for?

[drdtroit]

200. GOOD BYE!

[sarahlee]

201. Disagree

And I am not the only one. Here is another story on the subject:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/1/21355/98090

[Bridget Burke]

202. Bash Bash Bash

(This has been a driveby bashing!)

Gosh, where did Singular73 go?

[RobertSeattle]

203. Bwa Ha ha

I didn't see this post until today (9/2). In retrospect it is funny because it so so absurd.

[OhioBlue]

204. Republicans are expressing their disgust

at the Federal Government's response. 5 locally elected leaders today expressed their dismay. They didn't directly blame Bush - but they were wondering aloud - are we stretched to thin, what is the hold up, where is the help. This was at a local event discussing tax law changes. 3 state level officials, 2 local level - all republicans. not one defended bush - it was a republican friendly crowd, but they are definitely disgusted at the federal govt's response.

[info being]

205. You can wait three weeks if you want...

But everyone you know will be tired of talking about it by then.

[VOX]

207. You do realize that "devicive" is spelled: d i v i s i v e , right? Right?

Hey, just checkin!

[shayes51]

208. Those who hesitate..........

[Q]

211. Seems to me that now is the time...

...to try something different. Because what we're doing now ISN'T WORKING. Perhaps it's something that the party has done to turn people off or away?

Many Dems seem to forget that the Democratic party held the majority in both houses FOR FORTY YEARS. That's no small feat. We must have been doing something right for people to trust us that long.

The people still trust the old Democratic party...the one they kept around to represent their interests. It's the 'new' Democratic party they're backing away from.

Here's the deal: the New Republican party has transformed the executive branch into a virtual dictatorship...without accountability to the other branches of government or the people. The New Democratic party wants a piece of that action...which is why they're not resisting Bush no matter what he does.

This is why we have to keep the pressure on the Bush administration AND Democratic 'leaders' who appease, enable and cooperate with him. There's no going back now...unless you really do want to live in a Banana Republic.

[mattclearing]

213. "Bush Bashing" is Republican language.

People need to stop using their language. It only reinforces the bullshit they say.

I've been saying that people who aren't directly involved in rescue efforts need to shut up and let the media hammer Bush over it. When Democratic politicians who aren't on the ground in NO do it, it looks opportunistic and stupid.

[artemisia1]

214. No. The only way to aid the people in need is to embarrass the admin.

So far it has been successful and saved hundreds, if not thousands, of lives. Do you think, absent the pressure, that they would have acted?

[liberalitch]

215. That's what they'd like us to think and it lost us midterms in 2002...

AND the whitehouse in 2004.....

I am gonna bash away always.....

[Six Feet Underground]

217. au contraire, mon frere...

they're into it BECAUSE it's politically useful. No one wins by allying themslelves with Bush.

[Q]

219. We can't allow the Bushie Right enough time to frame the debate...

...and establish their talking points that destroy truth and reality.

For once...WE should frame the debate and not let up until justice is done.

[MH1]

220. I agree, mostly.

Just to clarify (in response to a post above) that people who have been directly affected by the incompetence of the response are in a good position to rightly bash whoever they feel is responsible.

And probably Landrieu was dead on when she said Bush shouldn't be blaming it on the state and local people.

But for politicians like Dean, Kerry, Kennedy, Boxer to come off looking too partisan here could just have the effect of changing the subject from the disaster and the incompetence, to "the awful partisanship the Democrats are showing."

The time will come soon though - like when Congress is back in session and the investigations begin. Then the gloves should come off - and I bet that they will.

[political_invader]

221. Bring this Mass MURDERER to Justice !

What the President has done with is lack of leadership is exactly that " Mass Murder ". It has passed the point of political ties at this point, it is OUR duty as americans to keep the pressure on Congress to begin its investigation NOW not in 6months or a year. The fact is there have been hundreds and possibly thousands of deaths now in this country and abrade that have been due to one Giant lie.

By sitting back now and saying nothing is also criminal as well, I refuse to not talk about this and demand answers.

For crying out loud I'm so tired of the TRUTH getting fought by a pack of lies and the truth losing out, Rise UP demand Justice. We have entrusted this Administration through due process to protect us first and it has failed. By not saying anything is allowing this to continue to take place you are strengthening those who have let AMERICA down.

SPEAK UP NOW !!!!

[Pallas180]

222. absolute bull. there is one person at fault at the top. Bush-

so what the hell are you talking about.

this is dereliction of duty , an impeachable offense...and THE TIME IS NOW.

[Zhade]

224. I don't think you're living in reality.

When even hardcore neoconservatives I know are furious with b*s* over the response...well, let's just say I, and most Americans it seems, completely disagree with you.

So, I'll ignore your, er, sage advice, thanks.

[snappyturtle]

226. Criticism.....

weeks, months or years down the line won't work....look where we are in the "debate" over the war and 9/11. I think I can prove the point:Bush declared the emergency three days before the hurricane hit. He has EVERYTHING at his disposal to prepare and rescue. We all know he waited days.....why? because Gov. Blanco didn't lick his boots and beg. She certainly operated under the illusion that the Feds would be there for the people, as did Mayor Nagin and Sen. Mary L. But that didn't work. But what did work was the SCREAMING BY REPORTERS, SOME VERY UNLIKELY OPPONENTS TO THE ADMINSTRATION (SHEPARD AND RIVERO) et. al AND THE VICTIMS ON CAMERA. We can't wait until the next crisis to start the debate over this one. The attention of the American public is very short---strike while the iron is hot!! Civility doesn't work with this administration. You watch what they do with the "spoils" from the hurricane..........they're probably already licking their chops!!!:mad:

[acmavm]

229. I do realize that you're posting on the wrong website.

.

[WinkyDink]

230. Nice try,

Karl.

(I checked "My Preferences". I should see avatars, yet I don't. ??)

[Skittles]

231. BULLSHIT

BULLSHIT

[Union Thug]

232. Oh Bull! Strike while he is vulnerable...and do so RELENTLESSLY

These attacks have to saturate the public communications channels. The republicans learned a long time ago that a message repeated is a message believed. We need to learn this fact, as well. The greater the saturation, the more the damage.

Keep it coming and don't let up.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

233. you do realize that you sound like a freep?

[wishlist]

234. Just like criticism of him seems partisan when we are at war in Iraq?

I am tired of all the glossing over and covering up for all of the Bush miscalculations, policy failures and errors of judgment.

I am tired of hearing how it is unpatriotic and unproductive to criticize the exaggeration and deceptions and incompetence shown by Bush & Co in the Iraq invasion and occupation, since we are there now and should just concentrate on how to make the mission a success, not look back.

Democrats need to take a strong stand criticizing the incompetence and failed policies and misguided priorities shown by the Bush Administration, and providing suggestions on how things can be done better.

[Slit Skirt]

235. wrong the time is now

we have just witnessed our federal government turning away from the poorest, the most needy and allow thousands of them to die. They held back supplies, turned away help from doctors, help from Chicago, and help from other nations. You witnessed people screaming for help, journalists screaming for help for them.

this is not about politics! fuck politics!
this is about human beings suffering, slow death...starvation, no medicine, living in urine and defecation...

and you are talking POLITICS???

how different is this than the torture, rape and sodomy of our infamous prison over in Iraq....NONE

THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT PEOPLE
PRESIDENT BUSH DOESN'T LIKE BLACK PEOPLE
IF THEY WERE WHITE AND AFFLUENT WE WOULD NOT BE EVEN TALKING ABOUT THIS

GET ANGRY, GET PISSED, BLAME THIS ADMINISTRATION AND DON'T EVER FORGET IT

[gokar]

236. Bush bashing for New Orleans fiasco will back fire -BIG TIME,

here is why:

All I hear from my friends here is that the people left behind
in New Orleans are the "undesirables" and "good riddance"! Even
my democrat friends don't seem perturbed over the loss of life in
New Orleans.

These racist comments have both outraged and disappointed me.
No matter how poor, no matter how uneducated, no matter how
black they are, THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS.

Bushit is a slime ball literally and figuratively. Nothing sticks
to this critter.

[spacelady]

239. Why are these people your "friends" & what do you say to them? n/t

[spacelady]

237. How many American citizens have to die before it is OK to call BS on BuSh?

[ima_sinnic]

238. um, it was sort of obvious the day after the hurricane that * couldn't

care less and that people were suffering and dying needlessly because of HIM

I will bash him when, where, and how I want, 24/7/365