Question. Why didn't we have the NG mobilized before the hurricane?

[Sean Reynolds]

I mean why weren't they ready to help right as the storm cleared? Why didn't we prepare knowing very well it could be this devastating? It seems to me someone dropped the ball big time and it hurt A LOT of people. Why weren't the NG in New Orleans helping getting people out before the hurricane? Why weren't they there helping right after the storm? Isn't that why we have a national guard?

Does anyone remember how quickly they reacted to Hurricane Andrew?

[Freddie Stubbs]

1. You will have to ask Governor Blanco

[Sean Reynolds]

3. Not just the LA NG....

But the National Guard as a whole. Clearly their numbers are depleted because of the war in Iraq, so you'd think that someone would have sent extra units from other states, right? Who does that? The governor of other states? Does the president have the power to do so?

[Freddie Stubbs]

6. Gov. Vilsack: Announces Iowa National Guard service members mobilized

Gov. Vilsack: Announces Iowa National Guard service members mobilized for Hurricane Katrina relief efforts
8/31/2005

For More Information: Matt Paul or Jennifer Mullin
(515)-281-0173

Iowa Public Health Response Team also deployed to Louisiana to offer medical and environmental health services

DES MOINES – Governor Tom Vilsack detailed today the state of Iowa’s efforts in assisting the disaster relief operations in the region struck by Hurricane Katrina. In addition to the two senior staff from the Iowa Department of Homeland Security and Emergency Management deployed to Louisiana last weekend to organize response and recovery efforts, the Iowa National Guard and Iowa Department of Public Health will send equipment and personnel to the region.

Approximately 65 members of the Iowa Air and Army National Guard are preparing for duty in Louisiana and Mississippi and will depart from Iowa within the next 48 hours. The equipment support package is comprised primarily of power generators, medium trucks, and trailers. Guard resources will be used primarily to supply transportation support and to supply electric power to disaster recovery and medical operations.

“Iowans know first-hand from the floods of 1993 how long recovery from such a disaster may take,” Vilsack said. “We learned a lot from that experience and are glad we have the opportunity to help others that are now in need. I have asked my team to make whatever resources available as quickly as possible to the citizens of Louisiana, Mississippi, & Alabama.”

more: http://www.iowapolitics.com/index.iml?Article=43441

[Sean Reynolds]

7. Ok.

But can the president call up state national guard members and ship them out to LA? Or can that only be done by governors?

[Toots]

10. What about Governor Barbour?

or Governors from Alabama and Texas and Florida. No one could be bother to take preventative measures or even just Being Prepared. It isn't all just Louisiana's fault.

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. Very good point

[Kingofalldems]

12. They were called as early as Sunday,

maybe earlier. Paperwork was delayed in Washington. Too bad, as hard as you try you can't blame this on Dems.

[formernaderite]

18. whoa....she doesn't need to ask DC for her own state guard...

She does have to make formal requests and respond to other states offers via the national guard offices in DC. It's still unclear whether she did that in a timely fashion. Michigan offered guard service, Haley barbour gave them an answer on Tuesday...apparently Blanco waited until Wednesday night to give an answer. Seems like her team of advisors who should have understood the procedure dropped the ball. Why Bush and fema fucked up so badly with supplies is another story.

[Name removed]

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[1932]

21. On Monday night, it looked like N.O. survived the storm. When the levee

broke after the storm passed, this thing quickly turned into something that was way beyond the power of any municipality or state to deal with.

Whatever stopped FEMA from getting its ass in gear is the real story here.

[Name removed]

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[1932]

24. OK, I have a couple problems with that reply:

(1) Looters? Don't change the subject. If there had been an immediate rescue plan, people wouldn't have been looting to survive.

(2) FEMA is just bureacrats? They're the people we rely upon to cordinate relief during major disasters, LIKE THIS ONE. James Lee Witt would not have let FEMA behave like bureaucrats.

This thing was way bigger than ANY municipality could have handled when the levee broke. Sitting by the sidelnes for days was the problem.

My only criticism of the local government was that there should have been warnings that this wasn't just a hurricane and that levees potentially breaking was an issue (which I didn't hear once on the media). But even then, they wouldn't have had the resources to deal with the consequencees of that, and it should have been that the feds were ready to go.

Again, this wasn't just a hurricane, so the NC examples don't help. Say there was a big damn aove the triangle that gave way and put all those cities under 6 feet of water in less than hour, then you can start comparing what NC could have done on its own versus what the mayor and governor did in LA.

This is literally the biggest disaster in America ever, and you're saying the state and city should have dealt with it without expecting help from the Feds. Right.

[Name removed]

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[1932]

28. I do expect FEMA to have plans to deal with disasters in every city.

The Pentagon has war plans for every country in the world, no matter how unlikely war is with that country. I expect FEMA to do the domestic equivalent. In fact, I suspect they do, since they told Bush years ago that this kind of disaster in N.O. was one of three most likely to happen in the US.

Again, no disaster in the US has been as big as this one. This is why we have FEMA. No state alone could have dealt with this.

The disaster here wasn't that someone had broken into someone's house. It was that a large american city at the mouth of one of the most important commercial routes in America was innundated by a flood caused by the breach of man-made infrastructure, leaving thousands of peopel stranded for days who could EASILY have been evacuated immediately by resources that ONLY the federal government has under its control (who is moving people today? Local police? No the navy, air force, army, cost guard).

And the state did ask Bush for help on the 28th. http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[1932]

22. If it had been simply a hurricane, without levy breaking, they probably

would have had access to their normal emergency supplies.

The levee bursting, flooding the city much more rapidly than rain could have, took this thing to a level that wa beyond anything NC has ever experienced. This was like the Johstown Floods times 1000. And then it was like the Feds sitting on the sidelines and watching the aftermath for a few days before they decided to help any of the survivors.

[Name removed]

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[1932]

30. I hope we also think hard about why so many people

who were alive on Tuesday afternoon might not survive through Sunday, and why so many people have had to suffer so much misery because of the absense of Federal help until yesterday.

And I also hope we think very hard about the society we've created which has resulted in vastly different outcomes for this crises for people with few resources compared to people who had the resources to leave.

[Lindacooks]

38. You're wrong.

The ultimate blame is going to fall on Bush and his cruel minions who decimated FEMA and this country's ability to respond to a natural disaster.

[Name removed]

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[Lindacooks]

41. Don't give me that crap.

This 'blind partisan hatred' is coming from the right, NOT me. I'm furious that our government has been decimated by a bunch of thieves - oh, why am I getting into a pissing match with a m****?

[Lindacooks]

37. You know, her state was just devastated. WHY are you blaming her?

It's like blaming an injured accident victim for not getting up and walking away from a crash - or better yet, like blaming an injured accident victim from not assisting others involved in the crash.

[4_Legs_Good]

2. No! We have a National Guard to fight aggressive wars in foreign nations!!

Guh!

I agree, though. When you know days in advance that you're going to have a problem, you should start preparations then.

david

[kenny blankenship]

4. On Sunday, Katrina was a Category 5 storm headed straight at New Orleans

you make the call.
Even if it weakens, even if it swerves it's still going to plow into populated areas. That's what happened. No one at FEMA or the White House has a right to claim they didn't have information about a serious threat. That's what they're doing though.
Bush should be removed by Congress with the briefest possible observance of legal formalities.
He is grossly UNFIT to be President. But we have to demand Congress act.

[Dr Fate]

5. Bush was busy eating cake and strumming country & western tunes.

But dont expect the TV media or any Democrats to call him on it.

[KansDem]

8. Can't the state NG be federalized?

Didn't Kennedy do this with National Guard troops in Alabama when Gov. Wallace refused to allow black students to enter the University of Alabama in 1963?

It seems if the National Guard(s) is stretched thin due to Iraq, and there seems to be confusion at the state level, Bush could've federalized NG troops across the country to send to LA.

[Sean Reynolds]

9. I think you're right.

That's why I'm asking though, because I'm not 100% sure.

If this is the case, one must wonder why Bush didn't bring in the NG from other states to help with the disaster before it happened and the hours after the storm had passed.

[Lone_Wolf]

13. Many of them are in Iraq and Afghanistan...

Occupying other countries requires troops.

[Emit]

14. FEMA says they were ready to go---

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4602266

All the press releases on their site says they were prepared and waiting--what happened? Did the governor fill out the forms incorrectly? Were they just waiting for Bush to meet up with them for the photo op? I just don't understand. Looks like FEMA was standing down waiting for state officials, but as I understand from examining their website, when things are so catastrophic, tag, they're 'it'! What the hell happened? Why were the news reporters there and FEMA or NG not? Someone on C-SPAN said Harry Connick Jr. was there--he could make it in but ground crew can't? Some of those helicopter rescuers were NG, I think, but some were coast guard.

[snippy]

15. Compare what Bush did in advance of Katrina with what he did

in advance of two of the hurricanes which hit Florida last year. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2056837&mesg_id=2057880

[blondeatlast]

16. This isn't specific for your question, but it might offer insight

into how badly this was fucked up considering the powers FEMA has in an emergency.

There sure as hell was no excuse for the transportation problems:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2056985

[Javaman]

17. The question is: where exactly were they before Katrina...

It seems odd that all the upper levels of gov't were either on vacation or out of town.

Why did it take so long to move in the NG? Those near the troops, talk to them, ask them questions. Where are they being pulled from??

[Name removed]

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[1932]

26. This is the biggest natural disaster in the history of the US. This is why

we have a Federal government. No state and certainly no city iin America has the resources to deal with something like this on their own.

This is why we have FEMA.

[Name removed]

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[lynne]

32. Thank you -

- as that has been my thought, too. Had the numerous school and city busses been put into place for the mandatory evacuation, there would have been far fewer people in NO to rescue and far fewer deaths.

The city and state are the first line of defense in any and all disasters. The city and state failed the good people of NO.

[Name removed]

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[Catrina]

36. I disagree

totally. The Federal Government was aware that this was not a state issue alone in this case.

25% of the country's oil supplies will be affected by any catastrophy that occurs in the Gulf. That makes it a national issue.

On Sunday, I saw ordinary citizens online gravely concerned about this very issue, and warning that the Fed. Govt. needed to be prepared to step in immediately after the storm passed.

Even if the state had the most imcompent leaders at ALL levels, in fact if that was the case, it was even MORE incumbent on the Fed. Govt. to take over, considering that they had days of warnings of a catastrophic event about to strike one of the most important areas of the country, in terms of National Security. The entire country will be affected adversely by this event.

That's what made this uniguely, more than a state issue. That and the advance knowledge the Federal Government had of its potential to be worse than any terrorist attack. That should have caused a leader with any thought processes at all, not to leave it in the hands of state officials. What was Homeland Security, a $41 billion dollar a year Fed. agency created for, if it wasn't created for this??

If ordinary citizens were aware of and deeply concerned about the advancing hurricane several days before it happened, why was the 'Leader of the Free World' so uninvolved until two days AFTER it happened?

While local officials may share some blame, this was a national security issue with advance knowledge and the blame falls overwhelmingly on the Federal Government and this president.

[Name removed]

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[lynne]

42. You don't agree -

- that the numerous school and city busses could have been utilized in the evacuation and saved countless lives; thus making rescue and recovery much easier and more successful????

Disaster prevention, planning, public evacuation and implemention of such plans all BEGINS at the local and state level. When those plans are inadequate or are not successful, then the Federal government comes into play.

[Emit]

33. Well, here's the LA state plan that shows the procedure

Let me know when you've figured out who was responsible:

Here's the state emergency plan:
If you can follow it. Oh, the bureacracy. There has to be an easier way to dispatch the guard! I think the poster above who said something about sending the wrong form to the wrong person or something might really be right. New Orleans is drowning and they're expected to do all this to ask for help?:

Found somehwere here: http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/plansindex.htm

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/frp2003.pdf
<<snip>>
d. Requests for military support at the Disaster Field Office (DFO) are processed through the DCO, the military official specifically designated to orchestrate DOD support. To ensure a coordinated and consistent DOD disaster response, the DCO is the single point of contact (POC) in the field for coordinating and validating the use of DOD resources (excluding those provided by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) when operating as the primary agency for ESF #3 — Public Works and Engineering, and those of the National Guard forces operating under State control).

<<snip>>

Specific responsibilities of the DCO (subject to modification based on the situ-ation) include validating requirements for military support (i.e., determining if the military could and should support the request); forwarding mission assign-ments to the appropriate military organization(s); and assigning military liaison officers to provide technical assistance to applicable activated ESFs. The DCO, through appropriate military channels, refers problematic/contentious military support issues to DOMS. DOMS facilitates resolution of issues at the national level.

e. Based on the magnitude and type of disaster and the anticipated level of resource involvement, DOD may establish a Joint Task Force (JTF) or Response Task Force (RTF) to consolidate and manage supporting operational military activities. Both task forces are temporary, multiservice organizations created to provide a consequence management response to a major natural or manmade disaster or emergency. The JTF responds to major disasters such as hurricanes or floods.

<<snip>>

4. Federal Law Enforcement Assistance
a. In a disaster or emergency, each State has primary responsibility for law enforce-ment, using State and local resources, including the National Guard (to the extent that the National Guard remains under State authority and has not been called into Federal service or ordered to active duty). Accordingly, the FRP makes no provision for direct Federal support of law enforcement functions in a disaster or emergency.
b. If a State government should experience a law enforcement emergency (including one in connection with a disaster or emergency) in which it could not provide an adequate response to protect the lives and property of citizens, the State (on behalf of itself or a local unit of government) might submit an application in writing from the Governor to the Attorney General of the United States to request emergency Federal law enforcement assistance under the Justice Assistance Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10501-10513) as prescribed in 28 CFR 65. The Attorney General will approve or disapprove the application no later than 10 days after receipt. If the application is approved, Federal law enforcement assistance may be provided including equipment, training, intelligence, and personnel.
c. In the event that State and local police forces (including the National Guard operating under State control) are unable to adequately respond to a civil disturb-ance or other serious law enforcement emergency, a Governor may request, through the Attorney General, Federal military assistance under 10 U.S.C. 15. Pursuant to 10 U.S.C. 331-333, the President will ultimately determine whether to use the Armed Forces to respond to a law enforcement emergency. Under Title 10 authority, the President may federalize and deploy all or part of any State’s National Guard.
<<snip>>

[zann725]

43. One reason could be Halliburton's no-bid contract on rebuilding the area?

...as of a 2004 signed agreement re: any "natural disaster" occuring in Louisiana, Mississippi. Isn't it ironic?

Shrubco already had his developer friends working the Wetlands for a couple years. With all the residents gone now, and "relocated" to Texas and yonder...my guess is the Neo-Cons definitely plan to buy up all the (abandoned) land...conveniently near oil-rich territory...and build it their way.

If resources had arrived sooner to "save" many of the citizens who owned and lived on land there, this of course would've complicated "things."

These are cruel, cruel people in charge here. Far more than we ever thought.