Howard Dean: champion of the grassroots?

[welshTerrier2]

i just received the "2005 GRASSROOTS Survey of 'Democratic Leaders'" ... i am apparently a "Democratic Leader" ...

well, whether i am a leader or not, i am a Democrat and i consider ALL Democrats who are not elected Democrats or "inner circle" Democrats as part of the Party's GRASSROOTS ...

so, like ALL Democrats, I have a set of issues I consider to be the most important issues for the Party to focus on ... and I consider these issues to be widely supported by many Democrats ...

what are these issues? before i expound on my views on these issues, i'll just list them: Iraq, global warming, corporate infestation of our government ... as an aside, please note that the "2005 GRASSROOTS Survey" was developed before the New Orleans catastrophe so neither it, nor i, made reference to it ...

did the GRASSROOTS survey even mention any of these issues? yes, actually it did ... there was one question of "environmental laws" that talked about global warming ... i was glad to see that ...

but no mention, not a single word, on Iraq ... if 75% of Americans want the US out of Iraq in less than a year, and one might guess that that number would be higher among Democrats than the general population, what the hell kind of GRASSROOTS representation is it to not even mention the issue ????? Iraq may very well be the primary issue on the minds of Americans and it isn't even mentioned !!!

and how many members of the Democratic Party's GRASSROOTS are concerned with the excessive influence of corporations in our government? how many believe that corporate lobbyists wield an inappropriate degree of influence over our government's policies? is this some kind of extremist view? as mega-corporations gain more and more control in Washington, we are losing our democracy ... this is a MAJOR CONCERN to the GRASSROOTS !!!

and the GRASSROOTS survey? not a word on Iraq ... not a word on corporate interference in our government ...

the survey was signed by Democratic Party Chairman, Howard Dean ... Dr. Dean is reputed to be a champion for the GRASSROOTS ... if this survey is any indication, it's hard to see why ... I supported Dr. Dean for DNC Chair ... i haven't given up on him yet but this is NOT a very good sign ...

OK Deanies ... your turn to whine and attack ... but at least do so in a responsive way ... and while you're at it, please let me know whether you agree that Iraq and excessive corporate influence in our government are major concerns of the Party's GRASSROOTS and whether they should have been part of the "2005 GRASSROOTS Survey of 'Democratic Leaders'" ...

[Eloriel]

1. That's disappointing but I have to ask if he even saw that

My experience with those "surveys" is that they're really only fundraising gimmicks. And put together by some fundraising outfits. I think it's possible Howard has never seen it.

HOWEVER, why don't you call or write the DNC and tell them of your displeasure. You might ask them about my theory while you're at it.

[welshTerrier2]

2. excellent idea ...

i call them often and will definitely follow-up on this ..

you're probably right that this was part of a campaign developed primarily for fund-raising ... but, first, Dean is ultimately responsible for what gets sent out and shouldn't sign it if he doesn't agree with it ... and second, survey or no survey, it's not at all clear to me how Dr. Dean is giving the GRASSROOTS a greater voice on these key issues within the Party ...

i'll let you know what the DNC has to say about the issues I've raised ... i suppose that will probably have to wait until Tuesday ...

[wli]

3. my grassroots proposal

1. Put ALL the neocons, in elected office or the private sector, on trial in the Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
2. Completely rewrite the system of elections for total fairness, proportional representation in the legislature, elimination of the electoral college, and
3. Revoke corporate personhood.
4. Seize financial and material assets of companies and persons involved in unfair labor practices and monetary political influence a.k.a. lobbying. Also imprison their owners for crimes against humanity.
5. Shut down oligopolistic companies, seizing their assets and imprisoning their owners for crimes against humanity.
6. Declare the Republican Party a terrorist organization.
7. Abolish the CIA, NSA, all secret agencies, and end all covert actions.
8. Release all secret records to the public.
9. End the war on drugs.
10. Legalize all drugs.
11. Release all nonviolent prisoners.
12. End felon disenfranchisement.
13. Repeal all laws passed since the fraudulent 2000 elections.

[welshTerrier2]

5. great list !!! guess how many of your items appeared in the survey?

i'll bet anyone who could compile a list like yours guessed ZERO ...

not one of these issues appeared in the GRASSROOTS survey ...

this means you are a left-wing extremist who is way outside the mainstream of what the Democratic Party cares about ... what kind of radical nonsense is it to care about fair elections? and all this corporate personhood drivel? aren't those just code words for socialism and communism? well, Mr. Marx, we won't be having any of that ...

please send lots of money, work hard for the Party, and keep your extremist views to yourself ... the Democratic Party is not interested in the issues you raised ...

[wli]

8. Are our Dems clueless or do they just not care? n/t

[welshTerrier2]

10. i had hopes that Dean would change the "process"

Dean, as Chair, can't define the Party's platform ... but he should define the Party's process ...

how many Democrats in this country believe they have a real opportunity to influence the Party's platform? instead of sending out a list of pre-scripted issues that "they" decided, why not start with a comprehensive list of issues and let each and every Democrat have a chance to decide which issues are of the greatest concern ...

why mail a survey like this to "Democratic Leaders"? why not mail it to each and every Democrat? after all, isn't that what a GRASSROOTS survey should be all about? sending a GRASSROOTS survey only to "Democratic LEADERS" is just a little contradictory, isn't it ??

[melissinha]

4. I agree whole-heartedly

Although many of the party's stances are very essential to our democracy... the ones you states are the BIG ONES.

Environmental laws, the Iraq scam and corporate influence over politics are the true threats to our economic and physical survival.

Unfortunately some of our leaders can't sever their bad corporate ties...

[welshTerrier2]

6. i support all the other issues raised in the survey ...

but you're right, omitting the ones they did was inexcusable !!!

i believe the survey had something like 15 questions ... would it have killed them to add 2 or 3 more to save our democracy and life on the planet ???

if the most important issues are not even on the Party's radar, how are we going to ever make progress on them ??? if the Party wants my support, I want their support ...

[MercutioATC]

7. Do we need ANOTHER poll asking Dems how they feel about Iraq?

I do see your point and I DO think the question should have still be asked but, c'mon...isn't that a rhetorical question at this point?

[welshTerrier2]

9. do we need another one on Social Security, education or abortion?

and just how rhetorical is it when 75% of the American people want the US out of Iraq in less than a year and Dean, Kerry, Clark, Clinton, Bayh, Warner and probably many others refuse to represent the position of the GRASSROOTS ?????

their failure to even include the word "Iraq" in the survey sends a message that they really don't have any interest in representing the majority view in the Party ... they know they are way out of touch with the GRASSROOTS and the last thing they wanted to do in a fundraising letter was highlight that fact ...

once again, the GRASSROOTS position on what may be the most important issue in the next election is not something they are even willing to discuss ... just sweep it under the rug and pretend the majority of us don't even exist ...

[wli]

11. How many Americans want the US out of Iraq in the next 24 hrs?

Oh, I forgot. They need to narrow the range of discussion so that's not discussed. :puke:

[welshTerrier2]

12. i just wish the Party was more "democratic" ...

there is no REAL DISCUSSION going on ... the Party sends out these phony fundraiser surveys that have nothing to do with defining the platform ...

whether we withdraw from Iraq immediately or not, lacking a democratic process to let ALL Democrats decide on the Party's position is totally unacceptable ...

if those at the top are free to do whatever the hell they want with impunity, nothing will ever change ...

[Adelante]

13. That survey's been circulating for months

Is that the return on the survey, wT2, or a survey you filled out? I wrote in the Iraq War and Election Reform to mine. I think it was in June. There were some threads about it at the time.

[welshTerrier2]

14. not sure if they're the same ...

this post was made in response to a new survey i just received yesterday as a "Democratic Leader" ... it was, of course, attached to a fundraising appeal ...

i also received a phony fundraiser survey from Hillary a couple of months ago ... as i recall, it was very similar to this one; perhaps the same ...

at a minimum, they changed the title ... i thought her's was called something like the "2005 National Issues" survey ... Mrs. Clinton apparently did not consider Iraq to be a critical national issue either ...

here's a link to the post I made about Hillary's survey: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1961981

i don't think the two are identical (not sure though) but how disturbing is it that neither one thought it was important enough to respect the GRASSROOTS and even give us all a chance to ask the Party to get us the hell out of Iraq ... it's easy to get the answers you want when you have total un-democratic control over the questions ...

Dean better find a better way to give a meaningful voice to the GRASSROOTS ... what's been done so far is not going to make for good results in the mid-terms ...

[JNelson6563]

15. Dean's focus on grass roots

has been good. He's going to states with no party structure and changing that. I see his hand in many of the changes in my own state party which is big and strong compared to many.

Here are a few changes: We have a monthly conferece call now, they started soon after Dean took the chair. We have rule changes we're implementing (which BTW some of the old guard really hate). One of those is letting everyone who's a member of state party for 30 or more vote at state convention. This is an excellent way to involve folks who are disaffected at the county level.

There are other on-the-ground, meaningful changes happening here and more importantly in much weaker areas of the country. If you want grassroots action it isn't oing to come from a survey through the DNC, it's going to come from people joining state and local parties, getting active and acing effectively. The DNC can provide templates, funding and staff. After that it's up to the people that constitute the grassroots themselves.

That's not to say we shouldn't make our voices heard to our leadership. Let our state chairs know how we feel about the war, corporate influence in our governement and anything else. Scream bloody murder about it even so that when they speak on our behalf, they know our views.

I'd hardly say this fundraising mailing is a reflection of Dean's leadership of the DNC.

Julie

[welshTerrier2]

16. "I see his hand"

it's great to hear that you're seeing positive changes in your own state Party ... you indicated you see Dean's hand in these changes but really didn't provide specifics as to why you give him credit for them ...

i see no such positive changes in my state ... in fact, at our recent Democratic State convention, things got very, very ugly as people who didn't want to "just go along with the script" were shouted down from the Chair ...

you stated: "If you want grassroots action it isn't going to come from a survey through the DNC, it's going to come from people joining state and local parties, getting active and acting effectively." ... i couldn't agree more on the importance to organize and gain real power inside the Party ... but that is essentially the point of my post ...

i had hoped that Dean would facilitate changes to internal party processes to enable more voices to have a forum to be heard ... and i had hoped that he would criticize or at least observe a situation, publically or privately, where Democratic leaders are as badly out of touch with the GRASSROOTS as they are on Iraq ... and i agree that a fundraising survey may not be the be-all and end-all of Dr. Dean's position on the GRASSROOTS, but it is nevertheless disturbingly symbolic ...

when the GRASSROOTS feels it doesn't have a real voice, sending out surveys that ignore the will of more than 75% of us is just not the right signal to send ... this was not just a careless oversight; this was pretending the issue, and our differences on it, do not even exist ... ignoring Iraq is not just bad policy; it's bad politics too ...

[JNelson6563]

18. I cited two changes after Dean took chair

read that post again. (Conference calls and non-precinct delegates voting at convention)

Seems to me that the "old guard" has a strong hold on your state, that is not a dead end though. Here is my unsolicited advice that you are free to disregard:

Start networking. I don't mean your neighborhood or precinct, I mean your state, at least your Congressioanl District. Talk to as many county chairs as possible and find out where they are in this struggle. Talk to folks from around the state also and find as many disaffected people as you can find. Trust me if you talk to enough people and phrase your questions right, you will find lots of allies.

Once you get some allies, get busy. Get as many elected to precinct delegate spots as possible. That is generally who elects the county board as well as the District. Once you get some of your own onto county boards and work like hell to get a decent District chair, you will find things will change.

I know, I did just what I have suggested to you. It worked. It cost me a lot of time and some high phone bills but I saw it as a small price to pay to affect positive change.

I'd be glad to further discuss strategy that may help you via PM or e-mail. Just don't give up. Also, don't waste time worrying about surveys, I get them all the time. Recently got one from Hillary and one from Feingold. They really are a fundraising gimmick. To really voice your opinion letters and phone calls are most effective (note I didn't say e-mail).

Julie

[Adelante]

17. You're right, I remember now.

It was the "National Issues Survey." Hillary wouldn't have written that up. It came from the DNC to Dem leaders, national and state, who were expected to distribute them to their constituencies. Mine came from my local chapter of Democrats Abroad, but it went to all members of DA in Mexico, not just "Democratic Leaders." Nobody asked for money with it. As I remember, it was supposed to be analyzed and then released around the end of summer and that's why I asked. I know people were wondering about it at a meeting two weeks ago. If this one doesn't have Iraq and Election Reform on it, it could be the same one.