When people say of Katrina victims "They should have left"

[LittleClarkie]

I was thinking about where I live, in a fairly tornado-ridden area. And the weather service now announces a tornado warning if there is even a funnel cloud in the area, and they announce it for the entire county. They then tell you city by city as the tornado reaches that area.

Point being, I'd bet most folks in my area don't beat feet to the basement unless they are damned sure there is a tornado in the area, and sometimes that will be too late.

So if you've never lived in an area where you've survived hurricanes before, how can you say that these people, even the ones who had no cars, should have started walking or something when it was clear that the hurricane was coming and it was going to be a big one.

I've heard, among other things:
"Well, that's what happens when you depend on the governement, any government."

"How long would it take for you to get inland if you lived near Lake Michigan."

It seems they are playing the twenty/twenty hindsight thing. But they've never experienced anything like this themselves. And as I said, I wager they'd not take immediate precautions against our brand of disaster either.

I asked one of my Conservative friends, one of the folks making comments like this, what he thought of right wing radio saying it was the fault of the victims, or that local government was more to blame than federal, or what he thought of yahoo.com making the distinction between found and looted. On that last one he snapped and accused me of attacking him. I commented that I didn't realize that yahoo.com was Republican owned or that he had anything to do with it, so why would he feel attacked.

Amazing how sensitive Conservatives are to being attacked.

I also commented that I was just discussing with him what RW radio was saying. He fairly screamed at me that I should call them and ask them.

He's quick enough to spout their talking points when it suits him. But all of a sudden I should make the distinction between him and the voices on his side.

But he was also quoting to me about what the Democratic Mayor should have done and how the victims should have left.

So he can spout the line, but if I call him on it, I'm attacking him.

Conservatives are a bit touchy at the moment, aren't they.

(sorry for the ramble.)

[Teaser]

1. When people say this, you HIT them.

It's really very simple. Soon they will stop saying it.

[CottonBear]

4. That is the Mary Landrueiu (sp?) approach. I like it. n/t

[NoFederales]

22. Tell them how toxically ignorant they sound when they spew such venom!

It takes a moment to register with most, but it's a conversation ender.

NoFederales

[Totally Committed]

2. Great ramble...

Recommended!

TC

[corkhead]

3. I say, you're right, they should have gotten better jobs

so they could afford cars to drive away.

Don't believe in Evolution, but I do believe in Social Darwinism

:sarcasm:

[Debi]

19. That is exactly what Bill O'Reilly said!

x( Sorry about that.

But he said on Sunday's program that we should not rely on the government to help us (you know, the government for the people, by the people and of the people) and that this was not a race issue but a class issue, and that poor people should get jobs, work hard and then they would not need the government's help....

I know I shouldn't watch, but I was going crazy between CNN/MSNBC and FAUX thinking I was watching three different tragedies!

:crazy:

[Wabbajack]

23. Which is the least bad?

[Hello_Kitty]

5. Hardcore Bushies share that characteristic with their leader

That's why they gravitate to him. It's all about their egos and they can never be wrong. Great job on your part remaining steadfast while questioning your con friend. It's time to stop coddling them.

[mikita]

18. your brief post just gave me a lightbulb moment...

I have never been able to pinpoint WHY my pretty intelligent brother could support Shrub, and you pointed it out:

It's all about their egos and they can never be wrong.

Thanks for your thoughts. It now makes more sense, although it does not take away my heartache.


edited for :not

[SomewhereOutThere424]

6. I recently stopped talking to someone

Who had the audacity to make jokes about the whole thing and make it sound like it was just a big 'people are complaining about racism' thing. I think some people are just incapable of seeing past themselves, and that a disaster to this magnitude will really show us what some people truly are deep down.

It's ridiculous to say that it's their fault for not leaving. Blaming the people who lived there, when the government was first founded they sold land in NO dirt cheap to stimulate growth there. Many of them never knew the levee could break so easily, many of them were too poor to even leave. Many of them didn't want to leave their pets and would have been given hassle to take them.

I heard they received a 'notice', no man power to evacuate them, just a piece of paper. I consider myself an intelligent person, and I don't think a slip of paper saying 'evacuate, danger' would do it for me to want to leave my own home either. Had it been a person urging me the levees above the city could be destroyed and there was potential imminent danger, I'd have been gone. The government hadn't taken it seriously starting with the evacuation processes and through what they did, and who's to blame someone for not listening to a half assed enthusiastic evacuation notice? It certainly didn't merit the disaster which followed, atleast in my opinion.

[renie408]

7. Ahhh...those compassionate Conservatives...

gotta love'em.

Or not.

This is the sort of comment that really makes me want to smack the snot out of somebody.

I also heard someone say this past weekend that, really, it was nobodies fault that the levees failed because they were only built to withstand a level 3 hurricane. When I tried to explain that, well then, it was probably bad planning to weaken them further by reducing the funding to the Army Corp of Engineers in LA, I got this patronizing head shaking. Boy, that makes me angry.

[LittleClarkie]

10. This is the same person who tried to tell me the Dem Party was racist

because we don't put minority Dems in high places.

I got sarcastic and belligerent and started spouting off about dem damn nigrahs and we wish they'd just go away. Yessir you always here Democrats talking about what a pain those damn darkies are.

I wonder how the drive to get more minorities to vote Republican is going. Not so good now, I would reckon.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. three items: Wheel chairs, nursing homes, elderly

A friend of mine was doing triage north of NOLA. According to her patient, all of the attendents took off to save themselves. Apparently, the residents all are gone.

[LittleClarkie]

11. I was just about in hysterics when I heard the story of that guy's mom

in the nursing home, calling every day asking when she would be rescued. Monday... Tuesday... surely Wednesday... Thursday... drowned.

My dad spent four years in a nursing home, so that hit me kinda hard.

[oneighty]

9. So easy for people to say

shoulda woulda coulda. Having experienced hurricanes when living in South Carolina I can tell them. Horseshit.

The last time there we were. Tricia and our two children and me. A hurricane is on the way. My 15,000 dollar boat is tied up at the seafood dock. The boat is our only source of income. The payments are five hundred dollars a month. There is no insurance protection. Our car is adequate for local use. Our cash on hand is slim to none. There is a major forest with dirt roads leading inland to where? If we get trapped in the forest there is no help. If we stay in our concrete block house we seem to maybe have a chance. So we stay and we escape another one. We are lucky.

180

180

[LittleClarkie]

14. I wonder if there would have been complaints of overreacting

if they'd have cleared the place only to have nothing happen. Woulda shoulda coulda indeed.

[iamjoy]

20. That's What I Thought

And imagine if Nagin had commandeered buses and moved all those poor people out of New Orleans and then the storm had turned and NOLA had no worse damage than a few trees and signs down. And storms do turn at the last minute.

Can you imagine the same Freepers, etc who criticize the mayor for not using the buses to evacuate the poor screaming at the waste of money had my scenario occurred.

[LittleClarkie]

21. In other words

The problem is not how he reacted, though I'm sure there are some things he could have done better.

The problem is he's a Democrat. Same problem they had with Clinton. Democrat= bad. Republican=good.

[gratuitous]

12. They DO get touchy, don't they?

As soon as you scratch the surface of their self-comforting talking point, the smarter ones can see pretty easily where you're going with it, and squeal that you're "attacking" them for being elitist bigots.

Well, not for being elitist bigots, but they can see that's where the tracks for that particular train of thought are leading.

[renie408]

13. I NEVER attack them for being elitist bigots...

I always attack them for being self-centered fucking idiots.

It always baffles me that theoretically intelligent people cannot see that the best way to take care of yourself is to take care of other people. Even if you are only driven by self-interest, it would stand to reason that a society's health is dependent on the well-being of ALL of its members, not just a few.

I really hate stupid people. That is my one prejudice.

That and the Dutch.

[Z_I_Peevey]

15. nice one n/t

[Laelth]

24. Ah ... but there's the rub!

It always baffles me that theoretically intelligent people cannot see that the best way to take care of yourself is to take care of other people. Even if you are only driven by self-interest, it would stand to reason that a society's health is dependent on the well-being of ALL of its members, not just a few.

It seems that, for the men in the bunch at least, their little dangly parts shrivel up when they are forced to admit that they actually depend on others. We are beset with a very unhealthy myth of self-reliance in this country, one that is only rarely exposed for the myth that it is. Oh, but when it's exposed, it's a very painful experience for those who rely on the myth for their sense of self-worth. That's what we're seeing now--mass exposure of the myth. We, indeed, do rely on water, electricity, sanitation, and transportation systems ... all of which, heaven forbid, are supplied by the government. Or, as Katrina demonstrates, are not well-supplied when the "starve the beast" party is in office. Katrina has been a rude awakening for a lot of people. Let's hope they make the best of the experience and actually vote in their own best interests next time.

As for the women in the bunch, frankly, I've never understood how a woman could vote for a Republican. Still, it happens sometimes. I think it makes some women uncomfortable to watch the men in their lives humbled, weakened, and humiliated (as they get when their dangly parts start to shrivel), and sometimes these women vote against their own best interests because they think they're making a noble sacrifice for the benefit of their men.

But what do I know? Nice post. :)

-Laelth

[McCamy Taylor]

16. Kerith Olbermann debunked this one on day two. WTG Keith.

[LittleClarkie]

17. What did he say? I need ammo

And it's hard to look things up when the board is crippled like this.

I'd like to be able to debunk the one about the N.O. Mayor not allowing help into the city early on. Didn't know he had that power. Maybe they meant the Gov. or some other prominent Dem.

No sir, not the time to play politics, unless you can blame a Dem, of course.