Do THEM apples not understand English?

[aion]

I went to school to learn how to spell and write. I am certainly no expert, but I thought there were rules as to the conjugation of verbs, tenses, pre/propositions, etc. Why do I get the feeling that the people in power haven't this knowledge? I didn't go to any fancy-pants Yale or Harvard, but at Indiana University they did teach us these things. Do they teach language differently in the south? Or do they gutter it all up?

A priori seems to have vanished completely -- replaced with hunches and vendetta.

[fiveleafclover]

1. huh?

[aion]

2. Those apples. It was intentional

[fiveleafclover]

3. "Them apples" is a saying that comes

from the punchline of an old joke. I don't know if that's what you're asking.

[aion]

5. I know the joke

And that is why I made it the subject. I also understand the genetic issues involved, as well as the southern mindset (if it can be called such).

[fiveleafclover]

8. Hey, easy now

No need to put down the south. Some of us live here, you know.

[aion]

10. An exchange from another forum

Someone in the vote.com forum suggested:

Quote:
"well un-fortunately we let the south back in the union, but enough about the first civil war."

answer from Swamp Fox:

Quote:
"LET" the South back in? The South didn't WANT back in, Skippy. The North forced it back in at the point of a bayonet. Invasion, destruction, and 100 years of red-headed-step-child status. Now the South runs the country. Ain't karma grand?

[fiveleafclover]

12. That's not my south!

Bush isn't southern anyway, and for that I'm thankful. It's all Connecticut's fault.

[trotsky]

4. Ain't just in the south.

As a Systems Administrator and Computer Support geek, I am constantly called on to help with everything from e-mail delivery issues to Word spell check problems. I see how these highly educated businesspeople write, and it's alarming! All the grade school errors - than vs. then, its vs. it's, "could of" vs. "could have", arrrgh!

[aion]

6. None are

I hate that one.

[fiveleafclover]

7. Misplaced apostrophes

drive me nuts. Or should I say "drive me nut's".

[aion]

9. I'm 'on' Deligate and search the rubbles

I'm 'on' Deligate!

Did you hear the chimp say that one? Or the RubbleS of Trent Lott's house...

[fiveleafclover]

11. He needs to be 'on' trial

[aion]

13. If he is the idiot he seems to be

...then I am not certain he knows that he is stupidly autistic.

Something is seriously wrong in that gene pool, or he was beaten into something fierce.

[laugle]

14. What's up with the word "wuddent" Bush is always

saying I wuddent there! And Laura Bush uses it too. It sounds horrible, but I noticed alot of people are beginning to use it. Also, Nuc u lar. English and grammar don't matter with the Bush's, that's obvious.

[aion]

15. wudu

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=wood

wood (n.)
O.E. wudu, earlier widu "tree, trees collectively, the substance of which trees are made," from P.Gmc. *widuz (cf. O.N. viðr, Dan., Swed. ved "tree, wood," O.H.G. witu "wood"), perhaps from PIE *widhu- "tree, wood" (cf. Welsh gwydd "trees," Gael. fiodh- "wood, timber," O.Ir. fid "tree, wood"). Wooden in the fig. sense of "expressionless and dull" is from 1566. Woodcut first recorded 1662; woodlouse is from 1611, so called from being found in old wood. Woodpecker is from 1530; woodsy is from 1860; woodwind is first recorded 1876. Woodshed is attested from 1844. Woodwork "article made of wood" is first recorded 1650. Out of the woods "safe" is from 1792.

wood (adj.)
"violently insane" (now obsolete), from O.E. wod "mad, frenzied," from P.Gmc. *woth- (cf. Goth. woþs "possessed, mad," O.H.G. wuot "mad, madness," Ger. wut "rage, fury"), from PIE *wat-, source of L. vates "seer, poet," O.Ir. faith "poet;" "with a common element of mental excitement." Cf. O.E. woþ "sound, melody, song," and O.N. oðr "poetry," and the god-name Odin.

[laugle]

22. Interesting ....but it's WUD which rhymes with FUD,

as in Elmer FUD--- hence...WUD DENT---as used in place of wasn't. I don't get the connection with wood, am I missing something?

Their contractions are all screwed up! Coulda, woulda, shoulda.....

[aion]

29. Excuse me?

The vowels do not have the same sound elsewhere in the uni-verse.

[Skittles]

43. you're forgetting IDN'T AND DUDN'T

lord I hate that piece of shit bush

[LittleClarkie]

16. Y'all gotta problem with the way we talk

I used to be Virginian... once....

[Igel]

17. Dialectal differens abound in American English.

And some are increasing (esp. differences in past tense/perfect verbs, pronunciation). Some features are patently non-normative; others nobody cares about. Sometimes it's the rules we taught that make the difference, even though the rules I was taught were just the normal speech patterns for some other people, in most cases. (Not in all cases: I was taught in the late '60s and early '70s when some truly bizarre 18th century rules based on Latin usage were still common.)

Some of the standards of usage for standard American English are in freefall. I've noticed in a few languages that syntax seems to not be a big deal; people get upset about pronunciation and irregular noun/verb forms. I'm the opposite, screw the pronunciation and morphology, I get hung up on syntax. If people don't use the present subjunctive when I think they should, I honestly have no idea what they mean and the coversation veers off into never-never land for a while. And the shifting standards for negation + quantifier, and for the use of 'any', irk me to no end, and confuse me.

One problem is that irregular verbs in English have been doing this funny dance for the last 800 years. For every 2-4 that move into the 'regular' column, one scoots over into the 'irregular' column. "Clamb" sounds stupid, so does "rided", but both are historical forms, where people made 'mistakes' that got accepted as standard 'climbed' and 'rode'. Then there was vowel shortening in closed syllables, giving us the wonderful set of verbs like sleep/slept ... dream/dreamt and light/lit (usually 'dreamed, lighted' these days). A student's research project I graded surveyed friends/family (all from NE, white, middle/upper-middle class, college students or graduates) and turned up a hodgepodge of bizarre forms. For fun, ask friends and family for the past tense and perfect forms of 'waken' and 'awaken'. One's clear, but the other you can usually make into a muddle quickly, even if they start off with decided judgments.

I taught my ling students that they had to write in standard English, and limit their non-standard spoken English. But not because it was ungrammatical, but because it differed from the acknowledged 'prestige dialect.' That kind of thing is a social fact. There's a big, completely accessible, and completely mind-numbing literature on what makes a 'standard language'.

"How about them apples?" is apparently Appalachian (although my dialect, from SE of Baltimore, had it, but only in that expression). I think it's an archaism, but it's a guess on my part: the old dative form for 'those' was 'tham' (with a long /a:/).

[aion]

20. Skip to the chase.

Do you not believe that cognitive dissonance is a real phenomena? Do you not believe cacodemonomania is an actual disorder?

Languages must have a syntax. If that underlying framework is fallacious and full of ambiguities, you will find yourself proving constantly that UP=DOWN. If that seems proper to you, then fine. You must believe reason a damn whore.

[Usrename]

39. Dupe

No, not dope.

[Usrename]

40. Cognitive dissonance - sure, absolutely.

Federal Government = bad
United States of America = good

I can't twist by brain around it, but I recognize it. I'm not so sure that this specific example is so difficult to expel from the public mindset.

wooden stake

I hate what these people are doing. It's horrible. A nightmare. As for cacodemonomania, only while I'm reading "The Exorcist". Most of what I see is readily explained by xenophobia. Wasn't this stuff studied after the big one? You know, never again.

[Clark2008]

42. In my neck of the woods - East Tennessee - our accent

is derived from the Irish.

If you listen close to the Appalachian cadence, you'll hear the soft cadance of the Irish. This is why Liam Neeson does such a good job playing a Southern Appalachian man in all those movies.

[Usrename]

18. I understand that in Russian a double-negative stays negative,

but there realy isn't a double-positve that makes a negative.

Yeah, right.

[aion]

19. In logic, you cannot proceed from a false premise

[LittleClarkie]

21. As much fun as it would be to play grammar Nazi with you

Don't we have bigger fish to fry?

[laugle]

23. Oh come on LittleClarke, it's a nice change of

pace. Now take a "Kerry" brake, you no you need one once in awhile...

[LittleClarkie]

24. If only it hadn't started as a Southerner rant up top there.

I'm a transplanted Virginian, doncha know. Howdy y'all der hey.

[laugle]

25. That's okay will forgive you...something I always

wanted to ask you....who is your back-up candidate if Kerry doesn't run? Seriously, I do admire your commitment, but It's good to have a back-up. Come on, I know you have one??

[LittleClarkie]

27. More acceptable alternatives than "backups"

Gore would be alright. Clark would work.

Those I'd prefer not to have: Warner, Bayh, Clinton and Biden.

And if the "chosen one" could see fit to find a spot for Sen. Kerry in their cabinet, I'd be much obliged.

[laugle]

31. You crack me up, you do have a thing for

previous candidates, i.e., Kerry/Gore. Do you think Gore would run? I'd vote for Gore, I think he got cheated out of the presidency, and would have been a great president.

Why don't you like Hillary? I would love to see both of them in the White House again. Of course it might be a long shot. Not because she isn't highly qualified, but because she is a woman, and women don't seem to like her.

[LittleClarkie]

32. Maybe it's that video game crusade she was on

I just feel a certain disingenuousness from her. But if she became our nominee, I'd start researching her the way I did Kerry, and probably find that a good half of what I think I know about her is Right Wing-based.

Biden is just a pander monkey near as I can tell.

You know what I love the most about Gore? It's how he's changed since his loss. He seems to have shed the ambitions of his parents and become himself. I was so proud of him this weekend, rescuing folks with his planes.

Yeah, Kerry was my first, politically. I'll probably always have a soft spot for the big lug.

[laugle]

33. Yes Biden is not what he used to be,

many years ago, when I worked for a non'profit organization I met him. He was quite handsome and had hair then. It was at a fundraiser in San francisco, Fairmont Hotel.

Our organization was crusading for abortion rights and we had these little cards to mail out to our reps. I sent one to Biden, and my boss asked me why, since he was not my rep. I told her "because he's cute" she was not too pleased.

But anyway, he sent me a really nice letter, I guess he was shocked to get a card from California, and with his actual signature. I still have the letter.

So that's my little story and why I used to like him. Silly, I know...

I'll bet you have met Kerry and maybe worked on his campaign, anyone as committed as you are must have unless you are related? LOL

[LittleClarkie]

34. To tell you the truth, I think he reminds me of my dad

Navy. Strong and honest, but with a temper.

But I think it was a picture of him in the Butler biography, right after he tossed his medals, where he is crying and being comforted by his fiance, that really tore my heart out and put it back in sideways.

I only ever got to shake his hand.

I just researched the heck out of the guy, you know? So that I could better campaign for him. I didn't like him at all at first. I liked Clark, but only because Clark had said something that had been in rattling around in my head for a while.

His was the very first campaign I'd ever worked on properly. It was a powerful experience. I still can be found bursting into tears when I think about the hope I had and lost on Nov. 3.

[laugle]

36. Well I think Clark has a better chance at the

nomination than Kerry. But if you want Kerry you need to focus on making some converts. Flame wars go nowhere. The minute an argument starts people tune out. Kind of like husbands.LOL

You once thought I hated Kerry, the truth is I remember the old Kerry during the Vietnam war. The man that stood up to the congress and helped to end the war. Although, he is a good man, he like many others, is entrenched in the Washington establishment.

It's my hope that we will have someone outside of Washington politics. Another Bill Clinton type maybe.

[laugle]

37. BTW, I forgot to tell you, we all felt that way

of Nov. 3rd!!

It was such a build up, I stayed up till 3:00am. I even saved fireworks from the 4th of July. I was soooo sure he would win.

The next morning he had conceeded. He never should have. I have no doubt Bush would have fought if Kerry won.

But, that's past, and we are fucked!!!

Time to say goodnight...it was fun.....just don't want to see you disappointed again...glad to know you are contemplating other candidates.

[aion]

26. One first proceeds

...to identify the problem. One then proceeds to inform others. Then, and only then, do the fishes face frying.

I understand what happened to the idiots in Germany. And that doesn't imply that I think it was proper or even necessary. But when a greedy and temporally challenged idiot is steering the ship of state, is it not proper to expose that family secret? Or do we fool ourselves, and call it a beautiful mutation?

[LittleClarkie]

28. "Do they teach language differently in the south?Or do they gutter it all"

Take down the Chimperor if you like, but I don't think you need to take the entire South with you, necessarily.

That is the problem I identified with your post.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, what ARE you talking about? Idiots in Germany? Beautiful mutations? Family secrets.

Speaka da Inglish.

[aion]

30. Are there people in the south who are still sore about the war

When your syntax doesn't maintain temporality, your reasoning doesn't maintain temporality. Everything becomes præposterous.

I don't believe that the problem is with all Southerners. Nor do I believe I ever wrote as much. The snip-it that I pasted from the right-winger indicated that KARMA was causing a vendetta. Are there people in the south who are still sore about the war? How many? What percentage? I don't claim to know these answers, and have not claimed to know. I am fairly certain, however, that I know exactly what is wrong with that freakish aberration in the WH.

[LittleClarkie]

35. Fucked if I know, dear

I'm a Wisconsinite now, der hey.

[Brightmore]

38. Do you like apples?

How do you like THEM apples?

[Clark2008]

41. It has NOTHING to do with the South.

Geez - there is bad language and the improper use of the language all over the country.

Bush - if that's to whom you refer in your post - muddies up HIS language to try to SOUND like the Southwestern "everyman." It's a ploy.

Yes, we have a different slang down here, but it's no better or no worse than slang throughout the rest of the country.

Get over the stupid prejudices you have regarding the South.

Now, how 'bout them apples? :eyes:

[Moderator]

44. I'm locking this thread

inflammatory region bashing