My God! Wolf is really trying to screw Clark!

[Bonobo]

Has this man no shame? Does he have any idea of what journalistic objectivity is supposed to mean? Does he not understand that it is unfair of him to rig the election this way?

I mean, shit. He asked Clark 3X "Are you going to say how you feel about when life begins?"

Oh, hate. hate, hate, hate..... Someone hold me back!!!! Grrrrr......

[Cleita]

1. I think Clark should have told him that even

scientists don't have an answer that question, so how could he?

[burythehatchet]

2. I aint gonna hold ya back

have at it - rip that little puke's beard of his face

[kayleybeth]

3. Yeah, I caught that

Wolf is such a whore. I thought Clark handled the interview well though.

[Democrats unite]

4. Wolf's are prone to rabies.

eom

[cally]

5. Did you catch Wolfie's comment that Clinton did not keep

the country safe. Wolfie is the worst whore. He was horrible with Kucinich and now with Clark.

[lancdem]

35. That's a really stupid remark by Wolf

9/11 happened when Bush was president, dumbass.

[TexasSissy]

6. Actually, that IS answered in the law.

Life begins when a fetus can live outside the womb, which is medically decided to be about six months. Abortions after that date are illegal, I thought, for that very reason.

ALL the candidates should know this, surely?

[Toucano]

19. I'm not sure that's 100% clear.

As I understand it, if the mother's health or life is endangered and the procedure to save her would harm the fetus, it is legal for her and her doctor to decide to abort the fetus.

I imagine that as medical technology has improved, this would seldom come up because the doctors could likely save the premature cesarian born baby prior to applying the treatment to save the mother. If they were unable to save the baby, it would not be a crime to treat the mother under Roe v. Wade as modified by Planned Parenthood v. Casey.

http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/505us833.htm
"1. Consideration of the fundamental constitutional question resolved by Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113, principles of institutional integrity, and the rule of stare decisis require that Roe's essential holding be retained <505 U.S. 834> and reaffirmed as to each of its three parts: (1) a recognition of a woman's right to choose to have an abortion before fetal viability and to obtain it without undue interference from the State, whose pre-viability interests are not strong enough to support an abortion prohibition or the imposition of substantial obstacles to the woman's effective right to elect the procedure; (2) a confirmation of the State's power to restrict abortions after viability, if the law contains exceptions for pregnancies endangering a woman's life or health; and (3) the principle that the State has legitimate interests from the outset of the pregnancy in protecting the health of the woman and the life of the fetus that may become a child. Pp. 844-869."



But the distinction is still in the law and Clark is technically correct. He's probably too smart to be president.

[Bonobo]

22. Wolf specifically ask his PERSONAL belief, not what the law said.

In fact, Clark kept his response limited to answering that he would uphold Roe V Wade. He did not want to, nor did he think it appropriate, to answer the question of his personal beliefs. THAT was the point!

[Basurero]

7. AWOL Bush

and 9-11 Bush knew.

Go figure.

Eh Wolfie?

[Indiana Democrat]

8. He refuses to answer the question...

...and it's a fair question. If he's so strongly Pro-Choice, why won't he answer a DIRECT question?

I have my suspicions, but I'll wait for General Clark to answer anyway.

[Democrats unite]

13. He did answer the question.

were you not listening?

[Indiana Democrat]

14. No...I didn't see this interview, but I saw him the other day...

...and he didn't answer.

What did he say today?

Specifically, what did he say to: "When do you believe life begins"?

[Skwmom]

18. He would be playing right into their hands.

They are trying to minimize the number of Republican crossovers for Clark.

[Indiana Democrat]

21. So he should lie, or refuse to take a stand (Almost the same thing)...

...in order to get puke votes?

How about some simple honesty and a display of conviction?

[Bonobo]

23. See above post #22!

[Indiana Democrat]

28. I would uphold Roe V Wade...

...but that has NOTHING to do with my personal belief.

I believe I can take that stand, but I don't believe that someone who wants to be a leader can. Especially not president.

Personally, I think he hold my personal belief that abortion is the killing of an unborn baby and is afraid to admit it...And I don't respect that.

[Bonobo]

36. Two things:

1. Realistically speaking, if he was anti-choice, then he would not say so because it would be a no-starter for becoming a DP candidate. If he is pro-choice (like he says he is) than he would answer that he will enforce the current law -this is what he said.

2. The question given to him (an unanswerable one in my opinion) was: "When does life begin?". Now seriously here, can YOU answer the question based on anything other than "Faith"? I mean, really, the question isn't even correct. It shouldn't be "When does life begin?" That is a theological question. It should not enter into it. It's called separation of church and state. Clark doesn't strike me as a guy who likes wishy, washy issues. He wants to deal in facts and law. In this case, both are clear.

[Indiana Democrat]

44. I know this much...

That thing inside any woman is not a tumor or a toenail. Outside of a tragedy, if left to grow, it will become a person just like you and me.

Personally, I just wish the issue would go away. It's ugly and makes me uncomfortable.

[pinkpops]

52. It's not a fair question,

it's a trick question. From a biological point of view, it would be hard to refute that once the egg is fertilized by the sperm, something neither egg nor sperm comes into being. Is it human? Well I can tell you this, it is not frog or chicken. From a legal point of view (that which the government should be concerned about) so long as the fertilized egg is not viable (i.e. able to exist outside the womb) it is not a human life. People who are pro-choice prefer to leave it at that. Individuals may wrestle with the implications for their own life, but the government's role is to not interfere. Since all the Demos are pro-choice, there is no reason to single Clark out on this. But Wolfie is on an agenda (as are you, I suppose). He wants to play a game of "there, I made you say it", or to portray Clark as a hypocrite, as if he himself was not one. Wolfie is a teeny-tiny-itsy-bitsy micro-worm.

[ronnykmarshall]

9. I'd to respond to Wolf:

No, but I'm about to tell you when your's is gonna end!

[henslee]

10. Saw it. Clark handled himself well.

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. Clark should have said

It's none of your damn business what MY PERSONAL beliefs are. I am running for president to enforce the laws of the land. What an asshole! Wes should have asked him what HIS personal beliefs are. I have had it with the media! :grr:

[spooky3]

15. or, "I refuse to discuss this with a muskrat."

[ewagner]

17. Damn Right!

That's the correct answer and Wolf damned well knows it.

I almost threw my iced tea glass at the TV I was so mad!

[Bonobo]

24. Exactly correct!

[Indiana Democrat]

29. Would we accept that answer from a repuke candidate?

A candidate for the Supreme Court?

I wouldn't.

[Toucano]

31. If the candidate is a man

who will never have to make the decision to have an abortion or not, his belief on when life begins isn't relevent.

He said it's a decision for a woman to make with her doctor, which it is.

[Indiana Democrat]

33. Cop-out answer.

[Bonobo]

39. Hell no it is not a cop-out answer! It is a WOMAN'S issue first and

foremost!

Try telling my daughter she must have the baby of a rapist or at a time in her life which will ruin her life... Go ahead. There is no length to which I will not go to uphold the liberty of a woman in making this decision. Any attempt to control that aspect of a woman's life would be met by this guy with EXTREME resistance.

[Indiana Democrat]

41. What did the unborn baby do to deserve death?

Even if he or she was conceived through rape?

This is an issue that is WAAAAY too deep for a discussion here, or really, for a discussion anywhere, but I can't get that basic question out of my head when pondering the situation.

That being said, I am Pro-Choice, but when I'm honest with myself, I can't answer that question. It basically comes down to...

The lesser of two evils.

Unfortunately,.

[BootinUp]

40. Pardon me, but I don't think you really get it

The only two real positions on abortions in politics today are:

1. You believe in a womens right to choose, subject to Roe v Wade, other court decisions.

2. You wish to impose your beliefs on others.

So the answer for Clark is 1. I didn't see the interview, but it sounds like he handled it correctly.

[Indiana Democrat]

42. Or option number 3...

3) You look at an unborn baby in the EXACT same light as a 10 year old child.

[BootinUp]

45. No thats option 2

[Indiana Democrat]

46. Thus the endless debate.

Thanks for the calm discussion though. :)


Now onto more important (And fun) stuff...

SCREW BUSH!!!

[Toucano]

47. I'm confused by your posts.

Were you hoping Clark would say he's anti-choice and you criticize his answer because he's pro-choice?

[Indiana Democrat]

48. I don't like his cop-out.

I can afford to be wishy-washy. I can afford to be Pro-Choice because it's the easy thing to be.

He can't...He wants to be my leader. He NEEDS to answer the basic question of when he believes life begins.

[Bonobo]

49. It's not basic and it IS personal...

Besides it's a woman's issue more than a man's one because it involves their lives as well as the life of the baby. They are inextricably intrtwined in a way that man cannot appreciate. They are literally connected. I say: keep your hands off the reproductive rights of women. It's none of your business what a woman does with her own body.

Have a child if you want. But allow others the right to make their own decisions. That is the ONLY point.

[Indiana Democrat]

50. I believe it's my right...

...to not want a woman to kill my baby.

[Bonobo]

51. That's right. YOUR baby.

And the word "kill", in this case, is rather inflammatory. I thought we were having a reasonable, relatively calm discussion. However, sir, you shall NOT have the last word.

[Indiana Democrat]

53. It's my baby.

I'll use any word I want.

[Bonobo]

54. You missed my main point. That was:

That you don't HAVE to kill your baby. No one is putting your baby's life at risk.

We are talking about a WOMAN's right to choose what to allow to happen with her body. An Anti-choice position is a serious, serious, serious infringement on a woman's rights. Do you not understand that.

By the way, my children are the very center of my life. I have 3: 9, 6 and 3 months.

[Indiana Democrat]

56. The beautiful 3 month old...

Now think of that child 9 short months ago.

That's what bothers me concerning this issue.

[Bonobo]

58. Look, I understand that it bothers you. It bothers me too dammit!

That's why I didn't "kill" any babies of mine as you put it. But listen, I was dumb enough to get a girl preggers when I was 17. A baby would have ruined our lives, both of us AND the kid.

Also, it would have meant that my current family would not exist because of the direction my life would have taken. Economically and otherwise.

Think about that.

[Indiana Democrat]

60. You don't KNOW the baby would have "Ruined your life"...

when you were 17...That is simple fact.

It could have very well ending-up defining your life.

[Indiana Democrat]

62. Off to cheer for Kerry!

Enjoyed the dialog. :)

[Bonobo]

64. Me too. And I got the last word.

It's all about liberty.

[Indiana Democrat]

65. OK, you got the last word.

Good for you.

[Toucano]

55. But you can't HAVE a baby!

Thus, you can't make the decision.

When you can HAVE a baby, then no woman can make you kill your baby. That's the thing about the 14th ammendment. It protects the privacy of the individual, not the couple or society or the state.

The woman decides when life begins when she decides to carry the fetus to term. What you believe and what Wesley Clark believes is irrelevent to the issue.

[Indiana Democrat]

57. I can make one...

..And care for one.

[LandOLincoln]

59. Indiana Democrat, sir, you've moved me to quote

Gloria Steinem:

"If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."

As a woman it's my firm belief that men should simply have no say in this matter unless it affects them personally...only if your wife or S.O. is pregnant with your child.

[Indiana Democrat]

61. If Gloria was a man...

...I would accept her speaking for men.

But I do agree with, and like very much, your belief. Unfortunately, many would deny me that "Say".

[LandOLincoln]

63. Thank you, but make no mistake

the final "say" is still the woman's.

[xchrom]

12. stop watching cnn

and tell them why.
many have -- sooner or later they'll get the message.

[Lefta Dissenter]

16. I had to turn off CNN

every last one of them is petrified of Clark, and they are more focused on tearing him down than they are on reporting the damned news! :mad:

This is just unbelievable. I didn't expect Clark to come in first today, but I sure as hell didn't expect him to be slaughtered by the damned MEDIA!

We're getting together with a bunch of Clark supporters to watch the returns tonight - I'm going to do my best to avoid CNN, though. Disgusting.

(I'm trying MSNBC now - we'll see if they're any better...)


edited to add the text of my note to CNN

I am shocked at the poor coverage of the NH election. Before the polls are closed, SEVERAL of your staff are declaring that Clark's campaign is dead in the water. It is your job to REPORT on the news, not to make your best attempts to KILL a campaign. I am absolutely disgusted that you have sunk so low that you are no longer a source of news. You now rank with FOX as a channel completely lacking in integrity, and, as such, your channel is now and forever blocked from my televesions.

[GiovanniC]

20. FYI

They're not.

"Dean will die a slow death, Clark will die a fast death, and Kerry will run until daylight."

Just a moment ago.

[LiberalTexan]

25. Did Clark every answer the Planned Parenthood questionnaire?

I seem to believe this is what brought on the question from Wolfe (though I didn't see the interview). Apparently Clark wouldn't answer the questions that PP had about if he was pro-choice or not. That turned me off. I don't need another Dennis Kucinich on this issue.

[burrowowl]

26. He tried to put Dennis in a

corner earlier, but Dennis didn't let him and put Wolfie in the corner.
Wolie is an anus (we don't want to insult donkeys). Too bad his name insults wolves.

[economic justice]

27. Sure would hate

I sure would hate to see a candidate for president be pressed on an issue that he has muddled up. Frankly, I like it when Wolf (or anybody else) is hard on the candidates. If they want to cook in the kitchen - let 'em feel the heat! Wolf did NOTHING wrong by pressing him on that. Don't let these guys get away with their scripted crap. In fact, I wish MORE journalists would be confrontational. With ALL the candidates.

[asjr]

30. Sure

Like they confronted Shrub when he was running. HA! CNN is scared to death of Clark and they are trying to win one for the Shrubber.

[economic justice]

34. That's just ridiculous

YES! CNN was thought to be the "Al Gore Network"!!! They weren't of course, but that's what was said. Every candidates supporters think they're being screwed by the media.

[artr2]

32. Don't worry

wolf's a repukkk - his penis probably doesn't even clear his pants

[joanski01]

37. Wolfie, et al

Are these people supposed to be TV news broadcasters or RNC operatives?

And Crossfire was so shitty that I felt that, along with everything else on TV, politics has become entertainment.

[Torgo4]

38. When Does Human Life End? We determine That every day!

Then apply the reverse standard to human life's beginning!

The answer may suprise you.

:think:

[Toucano]

43. That's rather simplistic.

Since people don't usually die while physically connected to -and inside of - another human being, you're comparing apples and oranges.