There's no such thing as a "good" Republican

[Zenlitened]

The Republican party leadership wants to destroy the American people. That's plain to see, to anyone who is willing to evaluate the facts. And anyone who tells you "Oh, there are good Republicans" is just living in a fantasy-land.

If you are a Republican, you are part of the problem. Whether you're a senator, a mayor or simply a registered voter, if you are willing to say "I'm a Republican" then you are part and parcel of enabling those who have shown -- again and again -- that they do not have the best interests of America at heart. That in fact, they seek only to profit on the ruin of our once-great nation.

If there are "good" people out there who still identify with the Republican party, the time has come: Step away from it. Reject it. Get out. History will examine this moment and judge -- harshly -- those who fail to see what that party has become, who refuse to swallow their pride and admit that the party they once believed in simply is no more.

[bertha katzenengel]

1. You're doing two things here, both wastes of time:

Either you're preaching to the choir, or you're pissing off people who know and love good Republicans. Because I disagree with your premise, I fall into the latter category.

I know several good Republicans, and I can tell you they're not going to abandon their party just because the leadership is screwing the country, any more than you're going to abandon the Democratic party for any reason.

[comsymp]

4. "I know several good Republicans, and I can tell you..."

they're not going to abandon their party just because the leadership is screwing the country world, any more than you're going to abandon the Democratic party US for any reason.

There, that's better.

ON EDIT:



/knows several good Republicans, too.

[Zenlitened]

12. If they insist on supporting the Republican party, they can no longer...

... be regarded as "good." They've relinquished that right by being enablers.

Sorry if that impinges on your comfort zone, but the truth often is harsh.

And if you can't see a distinction between the Republican Party and the Democratic Party, then I'm afraid you haven't been paying attention to the issues.

[bertha katzenengel]

21. Gee.

It's all so clear to me now.

[Zenlitened]

26. I'm glad you understand now.

[BillZBubb]

2. The truth is sometimes hard--you speak the truth.

No one who is decent can support anything the Repug party has done in the past 25 years.

Anyone who defends any Repug is in denial. The Repugs are a mean spirited and selfish crowd--with NO EXCEPTIONS.

[xultar]

3. WELP then there are no "good" Democrats.

WTF is up with this stoopid thread?

[Zenlitened]

10. Are the Democrats actively engaged in dismantling America? No.

[xultar]

15. I was being sarcastic and trying to prove a point. Seems most got it.

Do I have to put the smiley in every time or can some people get shit without pictures around here?

[Zenlitened]

16. Went right over my head, then. Even now that you've pointed out...

... you were being sarcastic, I still don't understand the point you were trying to make.

:shrug:

[xultar]

17. Are all black people thieves? ARe all white men child molesters?

We can't paint people with broad brushes. There are some good Republicans just like there are some bad Democrats.

What, you don't get that?

[Zenlitened]

18. Black, white -- we don't decide our skin color. My point is that...

... people who choose to say "I am a Republican" have given up the right to be considered good people. If they truly are good people, they will step away from what the Republican party has become.

And again, trying to flip the question on hits head by inserting "Democrat" in place of "Republican" just doesn't work, because Democrats are not the ones who are tearing America to shreds.

[xultar]

22. OH MY FUCKIN GOD!!!! OH MY FUCKIN GOD!!!! OH MY FUCKIN GOD!!!!

[StayOutTheBushes]

36. Actually, people shouldn't be painted at all. It's terrible for

the epidermis.

[MadHound]

30. Sure the Dems are

Let's go back to those "glorious" days of yore, when Clinton and his corporatistas ruled the roost. Yes, those wonderful compassionate people who loved us so much that they shipped a great many of our well paying manufacturing jobs overseas, and turned the Tex-Mex border into a toxic waste dump via NAFTA. And while those who were still reeling in unemployment from Clinton's NAFTA move, Clinton yanked the social safety net out from underneath them with his wonderful welfare "reform". And when we went to speak out, well, we found our public voice silenced by the '96 Telecom Act, which concentrated the media into the hands of the very few, and excluded the rest of us.

And that's only the obvious shit that Clinton and the corporate whore Dems did.

Sorry friend, but your premise doesn't fly. You shouldn't be trying to demonize the everyday, ordinary person, Dem or 'Pug. Who is at fault is Corporate America, who bipartisanly hijacked our government and are using it for their own greedy ends.

Quite frankly, at this point in my life I would rather see a Goldwater 'Pug in office than a DLC Dem. Both are equally odious, but at least the Goldwater 'Pug is up front about it, while the DLC Dem will try to hide his true corporate allegiance.

Frankly, it is time to ditch both parties and start anew, with publicly financed elections and instant runoff voting.

And if you contribute to the Dem or the 'Pugs, you are contributing to your own doom, and the rise of corporate America uber alles.

Besides, is your post really the smartest thing to do? After all, alienating people is not the brightest way to win them over to your POV, and we're going to need some of those moderate 'Pug votes come '06 and '08.

[Zenlitened]

31. Ah, the "ditch both parties" argument. I was saving that to post on...

thirdpartyunderground.com

[MadHound]

32. Why, not thinking for yourself lately?

So, can you factually refute my arguement, or just launch ad hominems in the hope that I will be blinded by your wit and intelligence:eyes:

[Zenlitened]

35. Where to begin? With references to the prosperity of the Clinton era?

The declining poverty rates? The reputation our contry enjoyed during those years. In any event, I'd have an easier time of it if you could separate your hostility toward the Democratic Party from your list of complaints. And some mention of Republican control of congress would be helpful, too.

How about your "courting republican voters" argument? Yeah, that's worked out well. Maybe courting non-voters is a better alternative for the Democratic Party? Hard to say for sure, though it's a certainty that a third party would be a tremendous long-shot to win any high office at this point in time.

But go ahead, cry "ad hominem!" if that comforts you.
Though, encouraging Democrats to abandon the Democratic Party -- and doing so on a Democratic website -- would seem a bit of a logical fallacy itself, no?

:shrug:

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zenlitened]

38. Please, go ahead and finish the sentence. You've spewed so much...

... vitriol already, why stop now!

Seriously, do you believe half the stuff you say? Just because Chomsky and Zinn say so? Do you only read sources who fuel your anger at the Democratic party?

Congratulations. Your post conjures up all the worst stereotypes of the left in a single throw. Histrionics, hysteria, outright shrieking. Wild accusations of Clinton-worship.

Coupled with a "get along to get along" cop-out when it suits you.

:wow:

[Verve]

5. Republicans polarize issues and people. Good, Bad, Evil, Compassionate,etc

That's just what you are doing here. People are complex. Most Democrats understand this.

Please rethink your opinion, you don't want to stoop to Bush's simple view of the world.

[ecdab]

6. The GOP has become a

caricature of itself. I disagree with the idea that there are no good Republicans, but only because there are quite a few good Republicans that are just clueless as to what is happening around them. So, perhaps we could say that there are plenty of good Republicans that simply need to be wakened from their slumber in order to help bring balance back to a nation that has become horribly tipped in one direction. Balance in all things - words to live by.

[Zenlitened]

8. I would say they are good people who need to stop identifying as Repub

That's the distinction. If they refuse to step away from what their party has become, then they've relinquished the right to be considered "good" people.

[Lindacooks]

7. You're right. 'Good' Repukes are becoming like 'Good' Germans.

Enabling a mass murderer, whether out of willful ignorance or just plain stupidity, makes you BAD, automatically.

[Zenlitened]

9. Bingo. Thanks for seeing the point.

:)

[no name no slogan]

11. Wow, Godwin's law in less than 10 posts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

That didn't take long.

[Zenlitened]

14. Maybe it's less a function of Wikipedia entries...

... and more a matter of troubling similarities?

The pattern described by Godwin's law didn't arise by chance. People make comparisons to Hitler and Nazism so often, because so often the comparison is entirely apt.

[no name no slogan]

19. um, no

It's called irrational and dehumanizing behavior by OUR SIDE. IOW, becoming like that which you most despise.

We gain nothing by dehumanizing/demonizing our opponents, and lose so much more in exchange.

Sorry, but Republicans ARE NOT Nazis. They do not have a plan for mass-extermination of an entire race of people.

And calling them is a disservice to both Republican voters AND to the survivors of Nazi attrocities.

[Zenlitened]

20. Um, what?

Enablers have responsibility too. Enablers share culpability with the enactors.

And take note, if you can, of the word "comparison." Look up, if Wikipedia has entries, writing techniques such as simile and metaphor, or the general concept of using analogies and shared language and experiences to illustrate a point.

Or, continue to squawk "Godwin's Law! Godwin's Law!" as if you actually have anything of substance to say. :eyes:

[no name no slogan]

24. I'm quite aware of simile and metaphor

such as, "comparing Republicans to Nazis is like comparing a nick from shaving to a decapitation".

Your comparisons are not only inept, but reckless. You do nothing for your argument by trotting out the tired "__________ are Nazis" comparison-- possibly the weakest, most desperate argument one can make against ones opponent. If anything, you make it harder for those of us who would believe that there's better ways to win arguments than resorting to knee-jerk demagoguery.

[Zenlitened]

29. Nuance seems to elude you. Perhaps it's your knee-jerk reaction...

... to references to Nazi Germany, but it doesn't appear you understand the notion of comparison at all:

You do nothing for your argument by trotting out the tired "__________ are Nazis" comparison

See, someone making a comparison would say are LIKE Nazis. They wouldn't says ARE. They would say ARE LIKE, in order to describe parallels between behavior today, and behaviors back then. To illustrate a point.

But you go flying off the handle at the merest suggestion of parallels, so the nuance is entirely lost on you. Which makes your own argument sort of desperate and weak.

And which, given your protestations, might be an example of irony.

Hilarious.

[ReadTomPaine]

25. He's more Il Duce and less Mr. Mustache

Right down to his lower jaw-jutting posturing. Add a dash of Franco, cook inside Texas politics for a few years, and bingo - Bush the Lesser.

[no name no slogan]

28. I tend to agree

he's not nearly enough intelligent to be a Hitler. He's more of the completely average lackey who stumbles into "greatness".

Dubya reminds me of Franco, or Augusto Pinochet-- mediocre minds who are willing tools of the oligarchy, who may not have set out to be evil men, but who have a knack for being the sockpuppets of the powerful. They don't have any brilliant ideas in their own right, but are more than willing to serve as tools for their masters.

[personman]

44. Kind of a dumb law...

The longer an internet discussion goes on, the greater the probability
that ANYTHING will be brought up... So this is personman's law, and since my new law also accounts for their law as well other similar phenomena, their law is obsolete and mine should replace it, IMO.

-personman

[wmills551]

45. There is nothing dumb about Goodwin's law.

Personman's law needs a little polishing before it is ready!

[personman]

13. I'm seriously sick of...

the whole "Democrats and Republicans are just two different sides of the same coin", "I know decent republicans", "It's just two different views, neither is more right or wrong."

That's just crap, and I'm going to tell you why.

Democrats stand for tolerance, compassion, charity, truth, integrity, justice, etc. Democrats want a fair government for everyone.

Republicans on the other hand are the opposite of all of that. These are people who consider equality a serious threat, and they fight against it. How insane is it to fight against civil rights? How anyone can even attempt to justify or hear a justification for this with a straight face is beyond me. The only reason I see at all is greed "You mean I'd have to work as hard as a <insert minority here> for the same wages?!? FORGET ABOUT IT!". Where liberals are by definition open minded, conservatives are by definition narrow-minded. Where democrats want a fair government for everyone, republicans only worry about themselves. Corporations over people, money over lives.

Also, these are people who, the majority of them, have let Bush do pretty much whatever he wants when it is up to them, and to this day don't regret it.

Now you might know a Democrat who THINKS they are a Republican, that is a kind caring person, (probably because of the media misleading them or their own ignorance about the issues) but to knowingly support the policies the Republicans push you simply CANNOT BE a kind, caring person IMO.

Just because a Republican might be polite, and might smile or say "hi" when they pass you, while the policies they fight for are killing poor children several thousand miles away, DOES NOT make them kind and caring people.

Selflessness and selfishness ARE NOT "competing values", one is simply inherently better then the other, and if you need to be told that, your moral compass needs calibrating.

-personman

/rant off

[ReadTomPaine]

23. There's no such thing as a republican anymore.

This current Bush political machine may be many things, but they aren't republicans in any real sense.

Not that I care for republicans either...

[BamaLefty]

27. Sure Isn't

Damn them all.

[Gloria]

33. My grandfather said the only good one was a dead one...

and he himself has been dead for 32 year!!

[IntravenousDemilo]

34. But of course there are good Republicans!

Richard Nixon, Strom Thurmond, William Howard Taft, Warren Harding, Herbert Hoover, lots of them.

Quick, though -- what else do these people have in common other than their Republicanism? Anyone?

[StayOutTheBushes]

39. They hang out with Wellstone?

[IntravenousDemilo]

40. DINGDINGDINGDINGDING!!!!!

We have a winner!

[ladylibertee]

41. DITTO THAT !!!!!!!

This whole fake Religious kick that they are on is driving me crazy too. They act like there is no such thing as a Christian Democrat. Well,let me just say,there are a lot of Christian Democrats and the difference between the Republican Christians and the Democratic Christians is that Democrats know the difference between the Church and the White House,the steeple and the flag,paying tithes and paying taxes; the Pastor and the President....need I say more?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

42. A very sweet, elderly lady from his Ward...

used to say, "One on one, Republicans are some of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. But you get two or three of them together and they want to take over the god damned world."

[texpatriot2004]

46. LOL n/t

[Lecky]

43. Simple minded bullshit

Why the hell do you waste time with this crap, we are all Democrats and we oppose the Republican party regardless of whether or not we think they are "good" on a personal level.