Larry Johnson tries to correct MSNBC via phone...they don't want to hear.

[madfloridian]

Larry Johnson's diary at Booman Tribune says that he called in to the Coast to Coast show to tell them an analyst was making false statements. A booker in charge of the program did not choose to correct the issue. This is totally alarming to me. Most of you are familiar with Johnson through his testimony on the DSM.

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2005/9/7/142737/2117

SOME IN THE MEDIA IGNORING FACTS
by Larry Johnson
Wed Sep 7th, 2005 at 02:27:37 PM EDT

by Larry C. Johnson
While watching the MSNBC program, CONNECTED, COAST TO COAST with Ron Reagan, a man from the Evergreen Foundation was on air spinning the myth that the President had to "beg" the Governor of Louisiana to take action.

Having been on this show several times I called one of the bookers, Susan Durrwatcher, to alert her to the fact that this man was misrepresenting what happened. I offered Susan the following objective, documented facts (see timeline below).

Susan thanked me for my "opinion" and said "we just have a different perspective."

Stunned, I asked her by what standard of journalism that an objective fact was mere opinion? I asked her to simply look at the documents and correct the record. She declined. I asked her to remove me from the MSNBC list of contacts. I'm sure MSNBC won't miss me and I am certain I will have a happy life without having to subject myself to their unprofessional approach to journalism."

A sign of an honest man is refusing to take part in catapulting the propaganda. Thanks to Larry Johnson for this. Susan Durrwatcher of MSNBC, hang your head in shame.

[melissinha]

1. an active approach

to partisan reporting... nice job MSNBC, nice job.

The man works/ed? at the State Department and worked in the CIA.... he knows INTELLIGENCE!

[madfloridian]

3. Susan Durrwatcher "declined" to review or correct the report.

A booker makes decisions which affect what will go out to the nation. It is unbelievable, it is unreal.

I think he is retired from CIA now.

[bribri16]

20. The governor should correct the record herself every chance she gets.

And she should go public with her own account of what actually happened and what can be DOCUMENTED and WITNESSED!!! Her silence and butt kissing is not going to do her any good...they (the admin) are going hang her out to dangle no matter what! She may as well go down taking a few with her. Dems need to learn to fight back!

[Andromeda]

67. Yeah, I agree.

Sometimes taking the high road is not the best thing to do. Blanco needs to fight back, effectively, and not ignore or apologize about her role in the NOLA disaster. Maybe she just feels overwhelmed right now and I can understand that but she needs to come out swinging sooner or later or else the Bushies will bury her.

[FormerRepublican]

2. Anyone have an email addy for Susan Durrwatcher?

We can bombard her with email to let her know our disgust at the perpetuation of government propaganda.

[Ce qui la baise]

6. Agreed, but it should be on their site. Or just email them anywhere, they

will get it to her.

[chalky]

4. Fifth vote and kicking.

n/t

[madfloridian]

5. Timeline he gives MSNBC, which is ignored.

TIMELINE

Friday, 26 August 2005, Governor of Louisiana declares state of emergency

Saturday morning, 27 August 2005, Governor of Louisiana asks President Bush to declare a state of emergency and requests Federal Assistance "to save lives and property". Note, the letter was published on 27 August 2005 on Lexis Nexis but was dated 28 August 2005. Bush received the letter on Saturday and responded on the same day by declaring a State of Emergency. Note, per the NRP, William Lokey was designated as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in Louisiana.

Sunday, 28 August 2005, Mayor of New Orleans orders Mandatory Evacuation.

Note: In Governor Blanco's request on the 27th, there is a specific request for help with evacuation and a specific request for help to "save lives and protect property".

Monday, 29 August 2005, FEMA Director Brown requests DHS Secretary Chertoff's help in getting 1000 DHS employees ready to deploy to the disaster within 48 hours.

Under the National Response Plane (see p. 93, Figure 11), once the President declares a State of Emergency the Department of Homeland Security is supposed to implement the Plan. Initially, DHS is supposed to deploy an Emergency Response Team to the State to provide expertise in assessing needs and determining appropriate courses of action. Moreover, on p. 52 of the NRP the President may act proactively under the Stafford Act.

Folks, these are not OPINIONS. These are cold, objective facts. However, MSNBC and other members of the mainstream media (MSM) are confused about what is a fact and what is opinion.

Larry C. Johnson

[gratuitous]

7. "We just have a different perspective"

See, facts don't matter when we're defending the president's incompetence or blaming the victims of the hurricane. It's just a matter of perspective, see?

[renate]

29. WE just have a different perspective?

The administration's perspective = MSNBC's?
WTH?

[Hidden Stillness]

8. The Media is Making False Statements?? No!

This was probably--(although I missed both telecasts, the strange organization name is the same; whatever the hell the "Evergreen Foundation" is)--the same liar who was just on "Lou Dobbs" with lies about how "nothing was Bush's fault," blah blah. This coordinated media propaganda is not "accidental," and it is not a "mistake." They will never correct it, and if you ask again, they will attack you--all at once now--for playing "the blame game." Soon, no one will be able to remember anything that happened here, as with everything else...WMDs, Plame, outsourcing, Swift Boat, Diebold, Cindy Sheehan, New Orleans, Biloxi...all just a dream...

[Pirate Smile]

9. They are giving in to Rove. This has to be fought. Big Time!

[Mairead]

10. Mail Olbermann about it (nt)

[krkaufman]

44. Exactly. Mail Keith Olbermann, to see if he'll look into Johnson's info

Countdown: [e-mail]

Keith: [e-mail]

[ProudDad]

11. FYI - Evergreen Freedom Foundation

http://www.effwa.org/main/page.php

Here are the probable liars being mentioned...


Yet another bullshit right-wing "think" tank...

[underpants]

24. Evergreen- HUGE military MAC flight profiteers

My last flight out of Germany was on a plane with a big tree on the back. I asked what airline it was and the "Stewardess" told me Evergreen. They never mentioned the name of the company during the flight.

WEIRD!

About two months or so after I got home I was watching 20/20 or some show like that and they were reporting on government waste. The owner of Evergreen is/was a huge Repub contributor and fundraiser. He was charging 4 times the normal price for normal flights to the DoD for MAC flights.

Look it up.

[ClintonTyree]

34. From their mission statement........

"Our mission is to advance individual liberty, free enterprise, and limited and accountable government". :eyes:

Oh REALLY? Accountable government, you say? :wtf: I think they mean accountable DEMOCRATIC government, you know, like Bill Clinton getting a hummer. Now THAT must be held accountable! Death, misery and a Republican led government that doesn't know shit from shinola....FREE PASS!

Another Conservative (I know, oxymoron) THINK TANK that exists for the sole purpose of propping up our illegal dictator. :grr:

[holboz]

38. Maybe they meant "limited accountability government" eom

edit: spelling

[ProudDad]

12. I sent evergreen an email

just for grins:

Subject: Lies and the lying liars who tell them

Text:

You should really try to get your facts straight regarding your "party line" about Katrina.

By the by, do you have Karl Rove's phone number or does he just have yours?



In case you missed it, here's the true timeline...

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2005/9/7/142737/2117

[BigBearJohn]

13. Come on DUers!!!!!! LET'S EMAIL MSNBC (((BIG TIME)))

[Pirate Smile]

14. E-Mail the rest of the media too. It needs to get out to others so they

can report what is going on in the Media.

E-mail Olberman - can he report it?

[Helga Scow Stern]

15. Olbermann is having a segment tonight about local accountability...

so perhaps they got to him as well.

[Captain Hilts]

16. Local accountability is an important issue too. (nt)

[ReadTomPaine]

17. Do you think the locals are to blame, then?

[Captain Hilts]

18. Yes, the mayor and governor deserve some blame.

Like President Bush, they're in charge and bad stuff happened on their watches.

But the Feds get the most blame for being slackers. No doubt about that.

[ReadTomPaine]

22. Look at the national disaster plan - the Fed are almost 100% to blame.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4668155

Blanco made all the appropriate requests at the appropriate times. Naglin pushed just as hard. "The victims are to blame" is a GOP talking point.

About the only local people who have to answer questions here are those LE who abused their authority as outlined in another thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4674328

[gkhouston]

54. unlikely. If he's having a segment about it,

I expect whatever blame is assigned to local authorities will be appropriate. More likely, the purpose of the segment is to de-bunk the bullshit coming from elsewhere. Actually, it's a shame Johnson has taken himself of the MSNBC contact list, since that presumably means he won't appear on Countdown anymore, either.

[JugDack]

19. BTTT!

[kimchi]

21. Just when I think I can't feel more outrage.

Thanks.

[Darkhawk32]

23. You think Larry Johnson will continue to vote Republican?

:shrug: :evilgrin:

[madfloridian]

25. He is far more honest in some ways...

than some Democrats I know who pretend to be what they are not. Hawks in Doves' clothing.

[madfloridian]

26. Contact info for MSNBC

For the Coast to Coast show.
[e-mail]

Viewer Services
[e-mail]

Or General comments
[e-mail]

[MidnightWind]

28. The President of MSNBC News:

Rick Kaplan.
Email addy?
[e-mail].

Make his day. Fill his email with emails to let him know we want real reporting, not SPIN.

[Orion The Hunter]

45. Done - eom

[bostonbabs]

39. done n/t

[ProudDad]

27. Here's my exchange with Evergreen so far - Wanna join in on the fun?

<<Thread starts in the bottom>>

I'm sure that one could make an argument that the Governor and Mayor could not conceive the inconceivable -- how bad it was going to be, since there is no precident for how bad it was. Neither did they have the resources available to handle the catastrophe. Until gutted by bush/cheney, FEMA did. Now they have neither the leadership nor the resources to help.

Bush STILL hasn't responded as he was legally bound to do.

You tell me who deserves more of the blame.

----------------------------------------------------


TIMELINE

Friday, 26 August 2005, Governor of Louisiana declares state of emergency

Saturday morning, 27 August 2005, Governor of Louisiana asks President Bush to declare a state of emergency and requests Federal Assistance "to save lives and property". Note, the letter was published on 27 August 2005 on Lexis Nexis but was dated 28 August 2005. Bush received the letter on Saturday and responded on the same day by declaring a State of Emergency. Note, per the NRP, William Lokey was designated as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in Louisiana.

Sunday, 28 August 2005, Mayor of New Orleans orders Mandatory Evacuation.

Note: In Governor Blanco's request on the 27th, there is a specific request for help with evacuation and a specific request for help to "save lives and protect property".

Monday, 29 August 2005, FEMA Director Brown requests DHS Secretary Chertoff's help in getting 1000 DHS employees ready to deploy to the disaster within 48 hours.

Under the National Response Plane (see p. 93, Figure 11), once the President declares a State of Emergency the Department of Homeland Security is supposed to implement the Plan. Initially, DHS is supposed to deploy an Emergency Response Team to the State to provide expertise in assessing needs and determining appropriate courses of action. Moreover, on p. 52 of the NRP the President may act proactively under the Stafford Act.

Folks, these are not OPINIONS. These are cold, objective facts. However, MSNBC and other members of the mainstream media (MSM) are confused about what is a fact and what is opinion.

----------------------------------------------


Bob Williams wrote:

><<proud dad>>,
>Sorry your "facts" are not the facts.
>
>The real facts show the a failure of the governor and mayor of New
>Orleans to implement the written contingency plans. As a result
>thousands of people needlessly died.
>
>No, I don't have Karl Rove's phone number and I am sure he never heard
>of me.
>bob
>
>------------------------------------------------
>...because freedom matters!
>Bob Williams, President
>Evergreen Freedom Foundation
>PO Box 552, Olympia, WA 98507
>[phone] F:[phone]
>[e-mail] www.effwa.org
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: <<proud dad>>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:57 PM
>To: Bob Williams
>Subject: Lies and the lying liars who tell them
>
>You should really try to get your facts straight regarding your "party
>line" about Katrina.
>
>By the by, do you have Karl Rove's phone number or does he just have
>yours?
>
>
>
>In case you missed it, here's the true timeline...
>
>http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2005/9/7/142737/2117
>
>
>

[ClintonTyree]

35. Why didn't he provide you with the "real facts" then?

Just a..... "Sorry your "facts" are not the facts."
Well, ProudDad, I guess that settles it then. Your timeline is obviously wrong and you don't have the "real facts". Obviously Mr. Williams is keeping the "real facts" a tightly held secret so as not to embarrass local authorities, right? :sarcasm:
I think Mr. Williams has set a course full speed ahead for bush damage control. Too bad he doesn't have the "real facts" on his side to PROVE that.
Disgusting, bush apologists are the most disgusting people on the face of the earth. They never let facts get in the way of a good story, that's for sure.

[ProudDad]

30. Un-Fucking Believable

And this is the MSNBC SOURCE???

My latest exchange with Boob Williams of Evergreen:

------------------------------------

CAN'T YOU READ????

Saturday morning, 27 August 2005 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), Governor of Louisiana asks President Bush to declare a state of emergency and requests Federal Assistance "to save lives and property". Note, the letter was published on 27 August 2005 on Lexis Nexis but was dated 28 August 2005. Bush received the letter on Saturday and responded on the same day by declaring a State of Emergency. Note, per the NRP, William Lokey was designated as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in Louisiana.

Amazing!!!!

---------------------------- to respond to his...


Bob Williams wrote:

> No one can make that argument. The contingency plan described 80% of New Orleans flooded and in some areas up to 20 feet. It called for the evacuation of 1 million people of which 300,000 would need transportation. The New Orleans plan said the Mayor would supervise the evacuation and would use the transit and school buses WHICH HE DID NOT DO. Those buses were not even moved to higher elevated and as a result they were flooded. The buses were within one mile of the convention center and Superdome.
>
>
>
> The exercise 13 months ago predicted a storm of a category 4 which would flood 80% of New Orleans and over 300,000 people would have to be evacuated. The plan revealed some significant problems which were not corrected.
>
>
>
> Hurricane Ivan one year ago caused the Mayor to evacuate the city. However, once again, he did not use the school or transit buses and the people without transportation were not evacuated. Luckily Ivan changed course and did not hit New Orleans.
>
>
>
> In any Hurricane the key timing is the 72 hours prior to the storm. The National Hurricane Service and the President urged the Mayor and Governor to order a mandatory evacuation. The Mayor delayed until he had less than 24 hours (not the 72 hours as called for in the plan). He then did not use the buses and thousands of the poor were stranded and many died.
>
>
>
> FEMA and the President cannot respond without the Governor’s request for assistance. We still have a U.S. Constitution and we still have federal laws which prohibit what you advocate.
>
>
>
> bob
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> ...because freedom matters!
>
> Bob Williams, President
>
> Evergreen Freedom Foundation
>
> PO Box 552, Olympia, WA 98507
>
> [phone] F:[phone]
>
> [e-mail] www.effwa.org
>

[LSK]

41. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE send him this:

The Governor of Louisiana did request help on August 28 (http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf)
in accordance with the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and
Emergency Assistance Act (http://www.fema.gov/library/stafact.shtm ). This act gives the President authority to act to save lives:

"§ 5192. Federal emergency assistance {Sec. 502}

1. Specified

In any emergency, the President may--

1. direct any Federal agency, with or without reimbursement,
to utilize its authorities and the resources granted to it
under Federal law (including

personnel, equipment, supplies, facilities, and managerial,
technical and advisory services) in support of State and
local emergency assistance efforts to

save lives, protect property and public health and safety,
and lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe;

2. coordinate all disaster relief assistance (including
voluntary assistance) provided by Federal agencies, private
organizations, and State and local

governments;

3. provide technical and advisory assistance to affected
State and local governments for--

1. the performance of essential community services;
2. issuance of warnings of risks or hazards;
3. public health and safety information, including
dissemination of such information;
4. provision of health and safety measures; and
5. management, control, and reduction of immediate threats to
public health and safety;

4. provide emergency assistance through Federal agencies;

5. remove debris in accordance with the terms and conditions
of section 407

6. provide assistance in accordance with section 408

7. assist State and local governments in the distribution of
medicine, food, and other consumable supplies, and emergency
assistance. "

[ProudDad]

31. Latest Exchange with Wacko bob at Evergreen

Ok, maybe I'm trying to communicate from the wrong direction.

Do deficiencies in the local response to a devastating incident (while living through it) absolve the bush admin. of their deadly incompetence after the fact?

You seem to be arguing that point -- the locals should have taken care of everything.

That's silly.



Bob Williams wrote:

> <<Proud Dad>>, READ. Don't jump to conclusions. Why is it that you refuse to
> look at the inactions of the governor and mayor in the 72 hours prior to
> the Hurricane striking New Orleans and their failure to implement their
> own written plans.
> bob
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> ...because freedom matters!
> Bob Williams, President
> Evergreen Freedom Foundation
> PO Box 552, Olympia, WA 98507
> [phone] F:[phone]
> [e-mail] www.effwa.org


:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[ProudDad]

32. My last exchange with Bonzo Bobby

at least I hope so. His ignorance is astounding. It's exactly what I'd expect from a "free market", libertarian asshole such as that.

-------------------------------------------------

(me)

I guess what you're saying is all true in the new republican "non-reality based" world within which we now suffer.

In the reality based, compassionate world I was born into, we took care of our neighbors. We were all in this society together. We weren't taught your "I've got mine, Jack, so fuck you" philosophy but actually believed, with a great deal of justification, that a major function of government was to help "care for the least among us".

Alas, that compassionate, Christian America is gone. It's been replaced by your laize-faire, robber baron capitalism.

Your parsing of the situation in N.O. is further proof of how far we've devolved as a country. Face it, you're another devotee of Grover Norquist who famously said that his goal was to shrink the (domestic) Federal Government down so small that he "could drown it in a bathtub". Fema first, I suppose.

What a shame...

-------------------------------------------

Bob Williams wrote:

><<Proud>>,
>I never said that. I said that had the Governor and Mayor of New
>Orleans done their job prior to the Hurricane hitting New Orleans and
>ordered a mandatory evacuation thousand of lives would have been saved.
>
>Had they followed their written plan after the Hurricane hit, hundreds
>(maybe thousands) of additional lives would have been saved.
>
>Does FEMA have a responsibility. Yes.
>Had the federal government responded. Yes.
>Was the response too slow. Yes, but a large part of the problem was the
>failure of the governor to have a clue about what was occurring and to
>operate the state emergency operations center. She is in charge and she
>should have had good communication with the Mayor and FEMA. She didn't
>
>When the Mayor didn't use the buses for evacuation, she should have. If
>she needed additional buses she had the authority to request them from
>other school districts and transit agencies and the feds. She didn't
>
>When she saw the people (essentially in a lock-down) in the convention
>center and Superdome she should have used the National Guard or state
>vehicles to provide food and water and security. She didn't
>
>Yes I think FEMA acted too slow, but the primary responsibility for
>responding to emergencies is local and state government.
>
>bob
>
>------------------------------------------------
>...because freedom matters!
>Bob Williams, President
>Evergreen Freedom Foundation
>PO Box 552, Olympia, WA 98507
>[phone] F:[phone]
>[e-mail] www.effwa.org
>


BUT HE FUCKING DID SAY THAT!!!

[madfloridian]

33. That guy refuses to hear or read or think.

He has a mindset, and he refuses to give it up in the face of facts.

That is whatthe years of hate right wing radio have done...they have brainwashed.

[ClintonTyree]

36. He really is a stoopid bushbot, isn't he?

It's rather hard to communicate with ANYONE when the entire communications system has been shredded by a force 4 hurricane. I seem to remember that Mayor Nagin DID order a mandatory evacuation, or was that just a figment of my imagination? FEMA had ALREADY been contacted, but they weren't going to respond for another 48 hours.

There's no talking to these people, they live in an alternate reality where everybody to the left of David Duke is considered a flaming liberal. Stop trying to talk sense to the idiot, he's clearly not interested in facts.

[Chemical Bill]

43. He means the mayor should have driven the busses too. n/t

[0rganism]

53. "the primary responsibility for responding to emergencies"

Apparently this dipshit doesn't know the difference between a "problem" and a "DISASTER".

The local government makes sure that fire engines and ambulences can get to his sorry ass when he has a stroke or his house is on fire.

But when there's a million people evacuating in the face of a Cat-5 hurricane 400 miles wide, it's not a local problem anymore.

[Lasher]

37. Fox's Hume, Wilson repeat unfounded claim

You know the drill: The corporate news media picks up Karl Rove's lies from conservative blogs, and reports same. This particular lie has been picked up and exposed by Media Matters.

***

Fox's Hume, Wilson take cue from conservative blogs, repeat unfounded claim that Bush "pleaded" with New Orleans mayor to evacuate city

On the September 5 edition of Fox News' Special Report, host Brit Hume claimed that New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin had ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city on August 28 after President Bush "pleaded" with him. But while numerous conservative weblogs had earlier made nearly identical claims, news reports indicate that Bush called Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco -- not Nagin -- on the morning of August 28 to ensure that such precautions would be taken. Moreover, Blanco stated that Bush called "just before" she and Nagin held a press conference to announce the mandatory evacuation, casting doubt over Hume and Wilson's suggestion that Bush's phone call triggered the decision to evacuate.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509060011

[ElsewheresDaughter]

40. kick

[young_at_heart]

42. Rove's plan, to blame local and state......at work all around us!

I wonder how many blind supporters have repeated this mantra now as "The Truth" and are convincing others to buy into it? I've read LTTE that say "You people are Bush-haters and blame him for everything because you are so narrow-minded". They, of course, never have facts to back up their accusations. One said, "Its' always Bush's fault".....maybe it's always his fault because it IS his fault (over and over). They can't look at the truth...probably because they'd have to admit they're wrong and that would be unacceptable in their world!

[norml]

46. Too bad they don't want to look at the timeline.

Too bad they air such lies with no corrections.

[lanche07]

47. Show me!!

I want anyone to show me where Blanco specifically requested for help from the Feds for evacuations.

I cannot find it anywhere and it sure would be helpful to have that info.

Thanks

[ProudDad]

63. Hi, Bob

Bye Bob...

[lanche07]

48. Show Me Please!!!

Show me where Blanco specifically requested evacuation assistance from the feds.

That info would be very usefull to have but I cannot find where or when it took place.

Thanks

[madfloridian]

49. I have posted it today here again. Here is the timeline.

http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline
Here is just a portion with links embedded to documentation.

KATRINA TIMELINE
Comment on the timeline here.

Friday, August 26
GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA:

GULF COAST STATES REQUEST TROOP ASSISTANCE FROM PENTAGON: At a 9/1 press conference, Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré, commander, Joint Task Force Katrina, said that the Gulf States began the process of requesting additional forces on Friday, 8/26.

Saturday, August 27
5AM — KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: “I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.”

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: “Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.”

Sunday, August 28
2AM – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE

7AM – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE

MORNING — LOUISIANA NEWSPAPER SIGNALS LEVEES MAY GIVE: “Forecasters Fear Levees Won’t Hold Katrina”: “Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow.”

9:30 AM — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES FIRST EVER MANDATORY EVACUATION OF NEW ORLEANS: “We’re facing the storm most of us have feared,” said Nagin. “This is going to be an unprecedented event.”

4PM – NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUES SPECIAL HURRICANE WARNING: In the event of a category 4 or 5 hit, “Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. … At least one-half of well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed. … Power outages will last for weeks. … Water shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards.”

AFTERNOON — BUSH, BROWN, CHERTOFF WARNED OF LEVEE FAILURE BY NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER DIRECTOR: Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: “‘We were briefing them way before landfall. … It’s not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped.’”

[young_at_heart]

50. Read this info from the Talking Points Memo web site

"Anyone who's been involved in a disaster response episode will tell you the first few days are characterized by absolute chaos. Basic logistics are fouled up; communications systems are paralyzed; a thousand urgent needs must be triaged; a vast welter of well-meaning but tunnel-visioned federal, state and local agencies, plus private charitable organizations and volunteers, rush in; local elected officials are forced in front of cameras to inform and reassure the affected population. Somebody has to be in charge of the chaos, and that's FEMA's job." This is just one of the many reasons why the White House"s main excuse---that the locals didn't tell us what to do---is such a grim joke.

Your "show me" request is unbelievably disgusting!!!

[lanche07]

51. What kind of response is that??

Unbelievably disgusting?????? How do you really feel? I mean talk about not understanding how our government works.

This is a country of laws and protocols and they are created so that the exact conditions of confusion and chaos(that you describe above)that are associated with disasters can be best dealt with. These laws are created by the legislators, Republican and Democrat, based mostly on past experience.

These protocols, as inconvenient as they are to your position, are a reality and must be followed in order to minimize the very confusion you detail. And as much as you want to discard the facts, the main responsibility lies with the locals. In this case, Mayor & Gov. They are required via the NRP and the State equivelant to specifically request and itemize the assistance they need. I mean if you think logically about this, how the hell can the feds be expected to know exact conditions on the local level. It is up to the local government to let the feds know what they need help with. Don't get me wrong, there was plenty of delay with the federal response but the ball starts rolling on the local level.

I have read Larry Johnson's post and have reviewed all documents associated with it. Including the request letter sent by Blanco to Bush on the 27th. I cannot find anywhere nor can anyone tell me where she asked for evacuation assistance.

Many people have been talking about how Blanco specifically requested evacuation help from Bush but nobody can show me where that happened.

I am not a Bush supporter just intellectually honest. If we really want to look honestly at what happened you must think logically about it and leave your politics at the door. Otherwise you will never fix the problem.

Show me!!!!

[young_at_heart]

55. So, if a protocol isn't followed, then drowning is fine with you?

Is this what you'd say, "Sorry sir, I can't help you escape because the protocol wasn't followed"? My position, as you call it, is the "human" position. Decent people, in an major emergency, do the right thing....they don't sit on their ***! I can't understand your position....that protocols HAVE to be followed in a major disaster. I sure hope this underhanded tactic of Rove's to excuse the Bush Administration backfires!

[Hidden Stillness]

56. Try Reading the Evidence This Time

Well, now you know how long it takes for someone from the "Evergreen Foundation" to go from having exchanges with you, to actually jumping on the thread to try to destroy it. CLUE: they do not read and respond to the evidence provided, but instead only attack the other people on the thread, with Republican phraseology. Get off the pseudo-intellectualizing jargon and your weird viciousness to other posters, "3 Posts." It is called the FEDERAL Emergency Management Agency, and that is who organizes disaster response on this grand scale--or did, when James Lee Witt was there, before Horsey Boy.

Brilliant framing: "I am not a Bush supporter." (By the way, Al Franken just referred yesterday to Gov. Blanco's request to Bush this past Monday I believe, to Federalize the Louisiana Guard, putting all control of the disaster operation under Bush/FEMA, God help us, and Bush replied the same day, confirming; I believe the story was from the New York Times originally. Whatever happened after that was Bush's FEMA's fault. Blanco had already declared a State of Emergency on Sunday--that is an automatic request for disaster assistance and for the Federal Government to take over.)

[Hidden Stillness]

60. Correction on Dates--A WEEK Ago

God, this living nightmare is so disorienting, going on so long, it is making me lose all track of time. It was not this past Sunday and Monday that these things happened; it was A WEEK AGO last Sunday and Monday. Gov. Blanco declared the State of Emergency for the State of Louisiana BEFORE the hurricane hit, and begged for resources, while Bush and FEMA (and Halliburton, lurking behind everything) did nothing.

[scarletwoman]

57. I'll parse this with you, let's take a good look...

Here's Governor Blanco's request for Federal assistance:

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976

Here is where she requests evacuation assistance:

ENCLOSURE A TO EMERGENCY REQUEST

Estimated requirements for other Federal agency programs:
• Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
• Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
• Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters. Costs estimated to range from $250,000-$500,000 to support (6) Shelter generator operations.
• Louisiana State Police (LSP): Costs to support evacuations - $300,000 for a non-direct landfall.
• Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Costs to support evacuations - $200,000 for a non-direct landfall.
• Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Costs to support evacuations - $2,000,000 for a non-direct landfall.


Totals: $ 9,000,000

Estimated Requirements for assistance under the Stafford Act:

Coordination: $0
Technical and advisory assistance: $0
Debris removal: $0
Emergency protective measures: $ 9,000,000
Individuals and Households Program (IHP): $0
Distribution of emergency supplies: $0
Other (specify): $0

It appears to me that evacuations fall under the category of "emergency protective measures". In paragraph 3 of the same document, the request for federal assistance uses the specific wording "emergency protective measures":

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures...

You will also note that at the very end of this document, a "Mr. Art Jones" is designated "as the State Coordinating Officer for this request. He will work with the Federal Emergency Management Agency in damage assessments and may provide further information or justification on my behalf." -- which, imho, begs the question: Did FEMA ever contact Mr. Jones for "further information"?

sw

[lanche07]

64. Thank You

Scarlet,

Thanks for responding with actual logical thought instead of blasting me with namecalling and other non-sensical blather. Why people actually take the time to reveal their lack of intellect is beyond me. It took five responses to get someone that put their brain to good use and actually responded with usable info.

I have a different document dated the 28th and is signed by the Governor that does not contain some of the language you reference.

Specifically -- "Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures..."

It looks to me that you have a valid point for the document you reference. Although I think the cost associations are strictly that...requests for supplemental funding to assist with the specified items as opposed to actual physical help. There is no question about the feds ability to throw money at a situation and I belive the feds moved quickly to provide the cash.

The obvious question I keep hearing is why did it take so long for the feds to show up in enough force to take control. The protocol stipulates that the feds can't move in without the Governor's written, specific request (The current NRP obviously needs some serious scrutiny to remove some serious bureaucratic nonsense but there was no way the feds were going to stray from the strict outline it describes for this very event.) If the Governor specified in her written request that they were going to be overwhelmed with the necessary evacuation procedure as described in their own emergency plan then there was a definite failure on the Bush administration to act in time to help save lives. That is why I searched for the actual evidence of the request and found Larry's blog and read his claim that he had proof that the Gov specifically requested evacuation help on the 27th or 28th, depending on which document you have. My document, the one that Mr. Johnson references when he claims Blanco specifically requested help with evacuation, does not contain the paragraph noted above. I can see where that paragraph can be interpreted to be requesting evacuation assistance.

Would you not agree though, that if someone is going specifically request assistance with "debris removal" that they would not specifically request "evacuation assistance". Does it not make sense that the physical removal of humans from emminent danger would demand more attention than debris removal and therefore a direct request for such, as opposed to ambiguously placing it under "emergency protective measures"?

Just my opinion based on the info I've been able to obtain and review.

I'm curious why there are 2 different documents that appear to be for the same purpose from the same office, any ideas?

Thanks again.

Seriously though - there are some really irrational people on this board.

[tkmorris]

66. You seem to be focusing on evacuations.

To me, FEMA's largest failings had little or nothing to do with evacuations. Evacuating an entire city in 24 hours or less is an impossible task IMHO, whether the Feds gets involved or not.

No, FEMA's job was to be there when the storm passed, providing food, water, and assisting in all ways to deal with the remaining population. There will always be those who couldn't, or for whatever reason didn't, evacuate. FEMA failed in that duty, and continued to fail for days. When they did manifest a larger presence on the scene they primarily got in everyone's way. They stonewalled requests, refused to airdrop food or water for absurd reasons, interfered with local police and rescue operations, and generally failed to do anything helpful at all.

To this very day their primary duty seems to be acting as the PR arm of the Bush admin. The vast majority of the actual rescues, feeding of the newly minted homeless, providing medical care and transport, and so on is being provided by either the National Guard, local agencies, or the very same groups who descended on the city in midweek last week only to find FEMA doing everything in it's power to prevent them from assisting.

I would humbly submit to you that when a disaster of this magnitude occurs the bureaucrats who argue over who submitted what document when should just shut up. Americans across this country, after seeing the reality on their TV sets that Monday and Tuesday, streamed to New Orleans and the gulf coast to help. They didn't file paperwork, they didn't make certain they would be reimbursed, they just went. Because they understand something the Bush admin does not. When there are people who desperately need help, you help them. All the normal noise just doesn't matter anymore. If they need water, you give them water, if they need food you feed them, and if they need to just escape you find whatever navigable craft you can find and you go get them. And you don't hold a press conference afterward, let alone before you have lifted a finger.

FEMA failed. Miserably. And no matter how reasonable you try to sound, you aren't fooling anyone. You have a job to do. It isn't based on facts. You don't care about finding out the truth. You are trying desperately to put a finger in the dyke that holds back public disapproval. Perhaps a little bit of preventive maintenance would have been more effective than trying to tell us now that 10,000 plus dead Americans is a good score.

[scarletwoman]

68. You're welcome. However, I totally agree with tkmorris' reply to you:

why are you focussing on evacuations?

By Monday, August 29, thousands of people who had been unable to evacuate had made their way to the supposed safety of higher ground -- the Superdome, the Convention Center, and various freeway overpasses.

The real question is, why were rescue and relief efforts being actively impeded by FEMA? Along with the fact that FEMA itself was doing nothing to provide any sort of life-supporting material to the strandees, much less attempting to evacuate them.

Here's another relevant document, btw, from the White House itself, wherein FEMA is given the charge to "coordinate all disaster relief efforts":

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
August 27, 2005

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana

The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of... (list of parishes follows)

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.

From Saturday, August 27 on, FEMA was authorized to "to save lives, protect property and public health and safety". In the 6 days following that authorization, by any rational measure, FEMA failed utterly to fulfill this mandate to "provide appropriate assistance".

In regard to the Governor's Aug. 27 disaster declaration not enumerating specific evacuation needs; bear in mind that on Saturday the 27th, the precise conditions that would ensue after Katrina's landfall on Monday, August 29, could only be guessed at. That there would be debris to remove was a safe assumption. Whatever other specific "public health and safety" conditions requiring federal assistance would not be known until after landfall, but would be assumed to be covered under the broader language of "emergency protective measures".

As to the differences between the August 27 and the August 28 documents, I have no comment to make, as I have not studied the August 28 document. Since the White House response to the August 27 request for assistance was itself dated August 27, it would seem to me that the Governor's August 27 declaration ought logically to be considered the primary document.

sw

[lanche07]

69. Bits and Pieces

I agree that FEMA has major issues, and Bush picking one of his buddies with no experience to run it was propbably a contributing factor. I think the fact that it was put under Homeland Security just added to the BS red tape for that department and thus slowed down a process that was cumbersome to begin with.

As for the evacuations, I was trying to find the facts that would explain why the State apparently gave up on their Emergency Plan that calls for utilizing local resources to evacuate those that cannot. And I stumbled upon Larry's blog...you know the rest.

I also heard that the Red Cross had food and water waiting for the evacuees @ the Superdome and the Convention Center but that the Homeland Security Department would not let them distribute to the people because they did not want to "create a magnet". I haven't been able to find the story though, so who knows if thats true. If it were true then that is a huge problem that may have cost lives.

[scarletwoman]

70. It's true. Quick google search produced the following:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050909-07070700-bc-us-katrina-redcross.xml

Logistics kept Red Cross from New Orleans

BATON ROUGE, La., Sept. 9 (UPI) -- Red Cross requests to enter New Orleans with relief supplies last week were rejected because of logistical concerns, officials say.

Consequently, the American Red Cross never launched its relief effort in the hurricane-battered city, CNN said Friday.

Marsha Evans, the national Red Cross president, first made the request to open its relief effort on Sept. 1, three days after Katrina struck, officials say.

"We had adequate supplies, the people and the vehicles," said Vic Howell, chief executive officer of the agency's Louisiana Capital Area Chapter. "It was the middle of a military rescue operation trying to save lives. We were asked not to go in and we abided by that recommendation."

Col. Jay Mayeaux, the deputy director of the Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness, said he had asked the Red Cross to wait 24 hours for conditions to be "set" for the operation. But by then a large scale evacuation was under way.

sw

[ProudDad]

62. Hi, Bob

Now that you've joined D.U., maybe you can learn something...

It must be lonely staring at your monitor out there in the woods in Olympia, WA...

[drduffy]

52. goodluck, goodluck

I wrote MSNBC too. But I am coming to the grim conclusion that nothing every again will make a difference until a revolution or global war and the defeat that is sure to follow occurs and then the revolution.... that will leave the corporatists and repuke sob's vulnerable enough to be 'back-spaced'. Maybe. Unfortunately, millions upon untold millions will die before that time all because of these subhumans and their drive for power and control over their fellow humans. Christ and God have left in disgust.

[Minnesota_Lib]

58. By way of comparision, let's look at Florida 2004:

From http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000246.htm

* Hurricane Charley in August 2004 saw FEMA, National Guard troops, relief supplies and President Bush on stand-by before the storm even made landfall. As the St. Petersburg Times reported on August 17th, 2004, "Governor Jeb Bush sought federal help Friday while Charley was still in the Gulf of Mexico. President Bush approved the aid about an hour after the hurricane made landfall." Cargo planes flew FEMA supplies supplies from a Georgia Air Force base to a staging area in Lakeland, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers had stockpiled 11 truckloads of water and 14 truckloads of ice. Guy Daines, the former Pinellas County director of emergency services, was pleased and impressed with the rapid response of the National Guard and the delivery of pre-positioned supplies, stating "It amazed me how they got over 4,000 National Guard troops in there that quick. Rather than sit there and react, they are trying to get a jump-start on everything."

* FEMA again prepositioned personnel, supplies, and equipment for the Frances, which struck in the first week of September. A FEMA press release offered a laundry list descriptio of preparations for Frances. 30,000 tarps, 100 truckloads of water and 100 truckloads of ice were already in place. Emergency medical teams and four urban search and rescue teams were already in place. By September 6, 900,000 Meals Ready to Eat (MRE's) were stockpiled in Jacksonville. President Bush himself got into the act, distributing ice to Florida hurricane victims with brother Jeb.

* This performance was repeated for Ivan and Jeanne, which hit two and three weeks later, respectively. Again, FEMA was in place with food, ice, water, and financial aid in advance of the arrival of the storms. By September 29, FEMA was providing detailed daily updates on its relief eforts, including over $360 million in aid to individuals. This assistance was augmented by the IRS, which granted tax relief for Florida hurricane victims.

* Large and timely federal recovery funding was never an issue for the Florida Four. Congress passed $13 billion in recovery spending for the 2004 hurricanes, the bulk of which went to Florida. By August of 2005, $5.6 billion had been spent.

Whether that money had been spent wisely by FEMA director Michael Brown is another subject altogether. On May 18, 2005, the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs held hearings about waste and corruption in the Florida programs. In a session titled, "FEMA’s Response to the 2004 Florida Hurricanes: A Disaster for Taxpayers?," Senators Collins, Nelson and others grilled Michael Brown over his agency's largesse to residents of Florida. Florida Senator Nelson detailed numerous frauds perpetrated by Brown at FEMA. This featured over $31 million in payouts, including paying for home and car repairs, in Miami-Dade County, which had been virtually unaffected by the storms. More morose, FEMA managed to pay the costs of over 300 funerals statewide, even though medical examiners attributed only 123 to the hurricanes.
__________________________________________________

So Mr. Boob Williams, at what date between 2004 and late August 2005 did FEMA's mission change?

[WeirdHoward]

59. 2 + 2 = 4 is an opinion. EOM

[OzarkDem]

61. File A Complaint W/ FCC Against MSNBC

I'm not an attorney, but it wouldn't hurt if the FCC began getting lots of reports about these problems regarding fairness and accuracy in the news media.

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumers.html

[PinkyisBlue]

65. Fairness and Accuracy

e-mail sent.