DU MYTH: Top Democrats are not allowed access to TV interview shows.

[Dr Fate]

That is the only conclusion I can come to after trying to get answers all day long on these two threads below.

Please, if you cant answer the specific questions in the two threads below, then dont ever give me that BS excuse again when I ask why Dean, Kerry,Obama, Hilary, etc cant go on TV interview shows and talk about the DSM, Gannon, Swiftboat lies, WMDs, specific Katrina lies, etc, etc.

Whenever I ask why they are not on TV shows fighting back- everyone says "They cant get on those shows- they are not allowed, you cant ask to be on- you have to be invited..." It's all unconfirmed crap.

If no one can answer the questions in the threads posted below, then we have to admit that this is nothing but a DU myth- a desperate excuse for silence.

I'm going to save these links for anyone who tells me "you dont know how the media works" crap again. It's apparent that no one else does either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4696949

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4702058

[shockingelk]

1. the observation

People get upset when news shows - for whatever reason - have three times the conservative guests as liberal.

If nobody's yet pointed to it, MexdiaMatters has kept track during the Dem and Repub conventions.

[Dr Fate]

4. Did you read my specific questions?

I am specificaly talking about access to TV interview & deabate shows.

The question is not how hard it is to debate Sean Hannity and his clones (It is not as hard as DUers make it out to be either)- the question is about access to those shows in the first place.

No one is saying that there is no bias- there is. People are specificaly saying that Kerry, Dean, Hilary etc are "not allowed" or "they have to be invited" to go on shows to talk about the DSM, or whatever.

What does Media Matters say about Top Democrats being turned down when their PR people try to get them booked on shows? Or am I out of line- do these PR people even exist?

Those were some of the actual questions I asked.

[shockingelk]

47. read your questions

Not saying it's right, just that in reality, there's less dems. It's undeniable.

And people get angry.

[applegrove]

50. Dems don't need to talk. Let the people talk it out. They are traumatized.

They need some healing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4704036

[brainshrub]

2. "A desperate excuse for silence."

Yup.

[Autonomy]

3. I just read half the first thread...

can I have the last 10 minutes of my life back please?

[Dr Fate]

5. Hey- its DU, its an internal debate.

You either have an answer or not. All I have is more questions, I guess.

Do you have an opinion- myth or no?

[Autonomy]

17. You're asking for opinions now?

Okay, then, my opinion is there is no hard & fast policy that makes a pol have to wait for an invite. Look at movie stars and authors who have something to plug. They are certainly not waiting for a call; that's what they have agents for. Similar thing for pols. It's a mixed scenario, though. Not everyone who wants to get on a show gets on, and some of the people who are on a show were asked to be on.

But I think you're asking the wrong question anyway.

[Dr Fate]

22. Well, since none of us can document a damn thing, I'll take it.

I agree with you- that is my instinct as well.

[papau]

58. read "The Republican Noise Machine." n/t

n/t

[meppie-meppie not]

62. great book! have it and read it and it lays it all out going back to the

60's when they started. Another one of those things that keep me up in the small hours of the night staring at the ceiling, along with thinking about what professional athletes make versus what I make!

[Dr Fate]

74. Where does it say Kerry & Hill cant get on TV shows?

Where does that book say that they dont have booking agents who often call shows and request air-time?

I did read Blinded By the Right and loved it, so I should read Brock's book.

Even still, If it confirnms what you say about Hillary not getting on TV, I think you would have cited the examples it by now.

You are blowing smoke up my ass and not giving out any actual examples.

[papau]

76. One last time - there can be no specific examples given - not because they

do not exist -

they indeed do exist

But they can not be listed because motivation of a non-appearance can not be proved, and admitting you made yourself available and were rejected is political suicide as you have admitted you are "weak"

blowing smoke up the ass is in the pretending that you do not understand the above - and that all you want is a list - otherwise media bias is a DU myth.

yea - right - media bias is a DU myth.

As I said before, you and I define proof of right wing media bias somewhat differently -

I can only suggest you spend some time reading the archive at Media Matters - and if after that study you still believe the right wing media bias is a DU myth, I will be glad to forward your resume to Roger Alies for a job at Fox Cable News - however in his last email to me Roger did swear a bit and did convey the idea that those that do not love the rich and corporate were scum - but I suspect you can handle that attitude.

[Dr Fate]

78. Perhaps you struggle to provide a single example because it is a MYTH.

And stop distorting my position- I know damn well the media is biased- what I dont know is this theory that Kerry, Hillary & Dean are being denied chances to go on TV interview shows and make strong staements against Bush.

I also find it hard to believe that the "have to be invited on" in every instance- I'll bet they do have PR men.

[papau]

80. On this thread Du'er itcfish has stated that Conyers,Baraba Lee and Biden

have made the claim that they cannot get the air time. Most Dem's I know are afraid of making the claim - but Hell - there are 3 names for you.

And thanks itcfish for posting

"itcfish (410 posts) Fri Sep-09-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
77. I Have
Heard Democrats say they cannot get the air time. I supposed that means they do not have a soap box. I heard Conyers,Baraba Lee and Biden, make this claim."

[Dr Fate]

84. I believe it that is possible. My post says "Top" Democrats.

And I cant wait for the link to see what they said.

Kerry, Hillary, Dean & Obama can get on shows that low level congressmen and other DEMs who no one has heard of cannot.

That has been my point in about 20 threads- that no one is stopping "top", "star" DEMs like Kerry, Hill, Obama or Dean from going on TV and talking about the DSM, Bush lies, etc.

[meppie-meppie not]

61. mine too

[Old and In the Way]

6. It's all unconfirmed crap.

So, you have good confirmable evidence to support your opinion?

The only Democrats I see getting the majority of face time on TV are Biden and Lieberman. Is that because all other Democrats have no opinions they'd like to share or because the MSM wants to have "reasonable" Democrats that won't counter the Republican talking points?

[Dr Fate]

7. Do DEMs like Hill, Kerry & Dean have PR people?

And if so, do those PR people try to get Dean, Hillary & Kerry on TV?

If they are being turned down, then why have they not made an issue of it?

If they are being turned down, then you have a damn good case- but first we have to establish that they are. Are they?

I dont know the answers- since no one else can provide any documentation, I'll assume for now that they are allowed on those shows- since I've seen them on those very shows with my own lying eyes.

[OzarkDem]

11. Good observation

I don't have the answer, but I suspect many of our Dems don't bother to try any longer to get coverage on national news shows.

I'm sure its difficult, but not impossible. They really need to work harder and make a concerted effort. If not, we need to find Dems who can get the job done.

[jpgray]

12. Who coordinates Dem spokespeople? I have no idea

Is it totally a free-for-all and Biden/Lieberman et al just get out there more because they work for it, or is it that there is a careful organization of message somewhere and these guys are the chosen representatives of it? I don't know, myself.

[Old and In the Way]

14. I agree, if they are turned down, they should bitch about it.

But, then again, where is the media forum to do that?

I don't know...maybe you are correct, they don't want to oppose Republicans in public. Maybe anthrax and Wellstone has taken the fight out of them. But I find it very odd that people who have a natural tendency to want coverage and face time with the audience, aren't interested in participating in this media.

Certainly the DNC should be tracking the rejections of our Reps and Senators on access to broadcast media. They ought to make that public on their website. It would be interesting to see if there is a systematic suppression of our messengers....and that info could be ammo to push it from a grassroots level.

[Dr Fate]

23. They could expose the fact in mass emails, AAR or the Daily Show.

At least the base would know it is really happening. It would be a start.

[papau]

39. Maybe the base could pay attention to the world revealed by Media Matters?

or is that too much work?

[Dr Fate]

45. I follow Brock on a weekly basis. Show me where Brock claims...

that certain elected DEMs are being banned from shows.

Show me where he confirms that DEMs have asked to be on, only to be turned down.

[papau]

53. Do you not understand English? - A person can not say they made

themselves available and were turned down because that makes the situation worse.

A person can not attritbute motive to the turn down - only a confession by the media person counts.

You are asking for bull shit - "elected DEMs are being banned from shows" is a statement that appears valid because Dems that are outspoken do not get on, because like yesterday on CNN with Pelosi the media person runs through a sheet of phrases that are fed them by the GOP, because the invite back folks are Lieberman and Bidden, because people have noted these facts, and indeed because Media Matters has video of lies told by media types available on their site.

There is no defense available to the media - except for bull shit like yours.

If the problem were WIMP Dems I'd be marching along with you - and indeed since the problem is often WIMP Dems I do march with you to get them to try to find their spine.

But I refuse to pretend I do not see what my eyes see as to the media's right wing bias.

[Dr Fate]

67. I'm not defending the media- I'm asking DEMs to defend themselves.

Instead of having DUers feeding me "Kerry is not allowed on TV to talk about the DSM" conspiracy theories with ZERO documentation.

[sendero]

56. I think it is very simple..

.... people who have some kind of high-profile position (say cabinet member or senator) can get on TV if they want to. Just like an author promoting a book, they have a publicist do the leg work, contacting each show and offering their presence.

Why are our guys not on these shows? Because they don't ask to be.

[Nederland]

60. Agreed

Whether or not you can get on TV depends more on who you are than what party you belong to. Hillary can get on TV any damn time she wants to. So can Bill Frist. But Dennis Kucinich?

Not so much.

[jpgray]

8. We don't have centralized leadership, or a concentrated message

I can guarantee you--absolutely guarantee you--everything you're asking for has been said by a Democrat in office, in Congress. But how are spokespeople chosen? Who decides what their talking points are? Is there a master strategy for all TV appearances by Democrats? Those are the questions that need answering before you can declare the Democrats are "silent" on purpose. Because what needs to be said is almost always being said, it just gets zero exposure.

[Lindsay]

9. No, we don't know how the media works.

Since you're not getting the answers here, because we don't have them, could you try calling some of the producers of the talking head shows and asking? I'm serious about this - I think it would be a great service to all of us to find out the truth.

I would call myself except that one of the symptoms of my anxiety disorder is that I have an extremely difficult time making phone calls.

[Zodiak]

24. you poor girl

Anxiety is awful.....I have a touch of it, myself, and the last week has definitely given me an "episode". May we both get beyond it.

[Lindsay]

34. Thanks, Zodiak Ironfist.

And a belated welcome to DU.

At least I don't have a fear of the internet!

[papau]

10. You saw CNN (Wolf) say many times to the Dem De Jure"We are not discussing

that today"

Indeed that line has been used on NBC from talking heads to the Today show.

I share your frustration - and agree they should keep trying to talk about the real issues. So far only Hillary has been able to tell the interviewer that she was not about to be led off her topic and then still get invited back.

As to your two questions - Can STAR DEMS get on TV to say what they want - the answer is currently no. When "the TV media actually has repeated Pelosi's "hot" comments" it is spun into what ever frame the GOP has given the media - in this case the frame was Pelosi was making political hay out of a situation that demanded solutions and not a blame game - and "making political hay out of a situation that demanded solutions and not a blame game" is a ringing successful phrasing to deflect any "hot comment" that can only be avoided if we have a fair media - and we do not have a fair media.

And your second question "Do Democrats have PR men who contact Cable & network TV show producers and ask for air time?" the answer is of course "yes". Any person that depends on public image has such. Again air time is a gift from the media - and my personal observation is that not following the media's script as to topic or tone reduces the number of times you get that gift offered to you.

To pretend Dem screaming will get positive or neutral spin in the media is IMHO nuts - the GOP controlled media will spin the message out of what is shown and all that will come across is "screaming Dem that can't get along and won't work to solve problems because they are controlled by those special interests"

Funny how you never get the media talking heads to spin a GOP statement into "those GOPer's controlled by the rich and corporate are trying to screw the middle class - again". But you do hear the media's Dem variation every week as unions and feminists and gays and whatever are blamed for the "stupid" things those Dems say.

Airlines are in trouble and CNBC was trying to say busting the unions needed to be done - until the analyst noted that a unionized airline had the lowest cost structure and the non-union one the highest cost structure. It was rather fun for 30 seconds - but of course the fellow was shut down and we went on to other topics.

So to summarize my response to your post - To say "It's all unconfirmed crap." is crap.

[Dr Fate]

13. So are they being turned down when they ask to be on?

Of course the media will spin everything- but they already do that.

Are we saying that we should not even try? And I never said they needed to "scream" at all.

Answer to Wolf: "Well, when can I come back and discuss it? I am available tomorrow."

[papau]

16. I wish our Dems would say something on air - but Wolf usually says

"we will of course discuss your topic at a later time" as he kills and indeed usually talks over the point the Dem was trying to make.

Of course there is never then a Wolf series of shows on what is Fu'ked up by Bush this week.

The Rove trained media call any critical comment about Bush a "scream" that helps the enemy and does not solve the "problem" - for 5 years I have waited for this to change - but any critical comment on any topic gets the same treatment.

As to "So are they being turned down when they ask to be on?" - the answer appears to be "yes" based on the fact that political types love face time, and the fact that there is a lack of really critical of Bush Dems that are showing up on TV.

But if you are asking for a booking schedule that was attempted and that showed zero results, no public person would admit to such as it would expose weakness in their control of the media - and therefore mark them as weak.

It appears a no win game until the media changes or we own our own media to offset the corporate whores.

[Dr Fate]

20. I've never heard Dean, Kerry, etc make that charge.

If they are being banned from shows, the first step might be to send an email tot he faitful saying this is happening, or say it on AAR or the Daily Show.

Not to be obtuse, but if they really are being turned down or "banned" from shows, I cant take your word for it- I need to hear them make that charge.

I dont think telling the truth and exposing the media bias makes us weak at all- I think it would help. I'm not so sure that is right- but could be.

[papau]

27. Again - no one can allow PR that shows them too weak to control the

media.

You will just have to watch the media and reach your own conclusion.

[Dr Fate]

31. No, The Right Wing cried "bias" for years- it never hurt them.

Do you have a model to back that up?

On edit: I mean a model to back up the assertion that DEMs calling on media bias would make them look weak.

[papau]

37. A model ? - how about a history instead - what bull shit

good night.

[Dr Fate]

40. The right wing called the media biased for 20 years- it never hurt them.

So there is your history and your model right there- and it does not help your argument.

[papau]

52. The media is "called" many things - but the media treats as legitimate

only the right wing comments -

I wonder why?

nope -

but I do wonder why you can't find time to watch the media or to go to media matters.

[Dr Fate]

68. Spent an hour at Media Matters when DU went out last night.

And I follow Brock on Franken every week.

I've never heard him say that Kerry cant get on interview shows.

Never heard Kerry say it either. Heard you say it, whoever you are.

[bluedawg12]

15. By- pass the corporate media, press conferences, PR tactics

Pundit shows are all about business and ratings and not news and information.

By-pass the conservative corporate media. Stage events such as press conferences.

Give speeches to firemen and concerned groups. Partner with more visible people like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton.

But get more exciting people on than...well, just get people who are easy on the eyes and easy on the ears.

Try some reverse psychology. And have them try to get on right wing shows. They may be welcomed as bait- but can still be heard.

BTW- has anyone contacted our elected leaders to see why they are absent from Mathews, King, Scarborough, Olberman, Blitzer, etc. ?

The pols are pro’s, they should know.

Or get media and PR consultant on the job.

[Dr Fate]

18. Well, now they really DO censor press conferences.

Kerry had plenty of them that were never shown on TV.

That is why I'm saying just go straight to the interview shows and say it into the cameras- but folks tell me you cant do that- you "have to be invited".

I'm supposed to beleive that when their PR people ask, they are turned down.

[papau]

19. when their PR people ask, they are turned down - ? - no - but if they

appear and try to get a point across that was not "on topic" or hit Bush directly - then future requests to be on will indeed get turned down.

Indeed I can not recall a Wolf "off topic" guest that was invited back.

[Dr Fate]

21. Would Wolf do that to a Dean, a Hillary, a Kerry or an Obama?

Which off topic guests are you talking about?

Which off topic guests are saying that they tried to get back on, and have been refused access? Are these big names, or the no-name pundits & low level people? Remember- I'm qualifing all this- I'm talking about "star" DEMs.

You will have to forgive me, but I cant just take your word for it- I need to hear the "victim" say it happened.

[papau]

26. Star Dems do not go on Wolf - so your point may well be true - the STARS

need to fight back because they do not get pushed around so easily.

As I noted earlier - Hillary seems immune to being talked over and pushed around.

And you are correct - the folks I recall from Wolf's pretend interviews have been "low name recognition" Dems. The NBC / GE treatment is to treat STAR Dems with very little extra care. Again Hillary seems to force good behavior - but the males seem to have no balls.

The morning/evening "news" report shows just ignore Dems - Star or not.

As to your "I need to hear the "victim" say it happened." - as I said before you will not hear anyone admit to having so little ability to control the message/media - to being so "weak"

Afraid you will need to just watch the media and come to your own conclusion.

Good luck

:-)

[Dr Fate]

28. I've never heard David Brock talk about "off topic" DEMs not returning.

I'm no saying it did not happen, but I have no details or documantation.

I dont buy the excuse for not exposing the media- I dont see how calling the media "biased" and listing actual examples of censorship will hurt- the GOP did it for years- it never hurt them.

[papau]

32. They just do not return - and how do you prove it was because of

trying to be critical of Bush (as in off-topic)?

The rich and corporate controlled media sold the GOP's "media biased" by silly things like word counts that dropped the mention of what or how they had measured, or on op-in survey's that asked are you in the media - doing what - and you feel whatever - and then called responses 1 to 3 for a feeling a left bias - stupid stuff -

but they then focused on "Studies have shown media bias to the left"

[Dr Fate]

36. How is the Iraq War or the Hurricane off topic?

Can you give me some specific examples of these "off topic" statements that allegedly resulted in the banning of an elected Democrat? We need to send it to Media matters, if Brock did not already document it. Did he?

And show me an elected Democrat- who says they were denied access to an interview show at all-one way or the other- whether they think it was for being "off topic" the first time or not.

Do you have a model for calling media bias making a party look weak? The GOP did it for years- it did NOT make them weak.

As of now, it is still all unconfirmed message board myths.

[papau]

54. It is at Media Matters as to the talk over and the topic control - as to

motive and invite backs I'll let you find an example of a Dem spokesperson that was talked over and/or told the topic today was not what they were commenting on - and was subsequently invited back.

[Dr Fate]

30. One more thing- How is the Iraq War or The Hurricane "off topic?"

Could you be more specific?

[papau]

33. If the topic is "Bush increases Budget to aid victims" saying Bush cut

New Orleans levee funding beginning in 2001 is off topic.

We need your opinion - Mr Guest - on whether or not you favor this wonderful idea that Bush has to provide aid to victims - and we will discuss your other points in a later show.

Christ - the above is just about a direct quote that is used over and over on CNN - so why or what are we discussing here on DU?

Is this a media discussion for those that do not watch the media?

[Dr Fate]

38. Is this a hypothetical, or did this example you give me really happen?

I've seen no documentation of any direct quotes yet- I'm just taking your word for it- you have not provided the guest name, the topic, the context, nothing.

[papau]

41. Indeed you will get nothing from me as your sourse should be

Media Matters or your personal observation.

And you have exposed yourself as not caring about what is on the current record - and indeed you just demand more - and apparently demand that you be allowed to pretend the current record does not exist.

Do your own research.

These "I have seen no facts" posts are pointless after you have been told where to look and refuse to look there.

[Dr Fate]

43. I care what is on the record- you have yet to show me that record.

I've done the research- I follow Brock on a weekly basis.

I've never heard Brock make the claim that "off topic" DEMs are not invited back. I've never heard him talk about Wolf saying that to an elected Democrat either.

Show me what you are talking about- set the record straight.

[papau]

51. You do not watch the media or media matters

n/t

[Dr Fate]

69. Do you have a camera in my house or somthing?

You cant site anything to answer any of my specific questions.

You are a terrible debater.

[Dr Fate]

75. I also wathced Conyer's media hearings too.

They did not adress how "Star" DEMs like Dean, Kerry, Hill, etc are being denied access to interview shows either. Brock was there.

[LittleClarkie]

25. Not terribly illuminating

You don't know. Neither do they. Result: we still don't know. Conclusion: some folks are likely talking out their butts without real knowledge.

Does that disprove their claim. No. Just means we need to look elsewhere for the yes, no answer.

But then, that's the internets for ya. People talk out their butts all the time. The myth is that you can come to a messageboard of any kind and take what they say as gospel unless they can document what they are saying.

The big question is still up in the air until we find an insider to cough up some info. (reminds me of the election investigation.)

[Dr Fate]

29. It's likely a myth and a conspiracy theory.

Of course DEMs have PR men and of course they ask to be booked on shows. How could they not? I mean, really.

If they are being banned from shows, then they can say so. Until they do, its an unconfirmed message board myth.

[papau]

35. Bull Shit - being banned from shows is not a myth - personal observation

can verify the effect -

If you want Dems to commit political suicide by saying they are weak and have no control of the media - then I suggest some place other than DU is the place to post that desire.

[Dr Fate]

42. The GOP made the accusation of media bias for years-did it weaken them?

I dont see how saying the media is biased, and then bringing up actual examples is political suicide.

The right wing did it for years, and never even had too many real examples.

So far, nothing you have said has been backed up.

I'm still looking for answers here- I dont really know either- but I cant buy a lot of what you say until I get some solid examples.

[papau]

55. If your following Media Matters for a few years does not convince you of

right wing media bias, then the only conclusion I have is that we have different standards for what is media bias.

[Dr Fate]

71. I am 100% convinced of media bias. I am NOT convinced...

...that Kerry, Hillary, Obama, etc are being banned from TV shows or that they cant have their PR call and request to be on TV.

No one has proved that yet- that is still a message board myth at this point.

[renie408]

44. Aren't you doing the exact same thing you are accusing others of?

Where's YOUR proof?

Prove that the reason they aren't on talk shows is because they are chicken shit or passive or whatever the reason you think they are silent.


Personally, I think they don't go on those shows because it is their belief that the camera will steal their souls.

Prove me wrong.

[Dr Fate]

46. No. But I admit that I "dont know how media works"

Instead of pretending I do, and not backing it up with examples.

You are right, I cant prove that Hillary is being banned from shows when she asks to be on- but I have seen her with my own lying eyes on them. I wish she could have gone on and talked about the DSM too. When I suggested that on DU, I was told she was "not invited" and "not allowed."

I also dont know 100% for sure whether she has hired PR people who try to book her-like actors and other stars do-what is your guess on that?

[renie408]

59. NO clue

See, I don't know how the media works and am not ashamed to admit it. If you need to get stalls at a horse show or a good deal on used tack, I can help you with that. But media relations?...I got nothing.

[rhett o rick]

94. The Point is that IF Democracts wanted on TV, they could get on. nt

[ladylibertee]

48. PATIENCE PEOPLE, PATIENCE....We

will start seeing and hearing more Dems in the very near future. The Retardicans have screwed up royally this time and dems are stepping up.Before, they were just playing nice. I think the Dems have finally realized that the only language the Republicans understand is " PLAY DIRTY " and now it's on.So, hold on, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

[Dr Fate]

72. That is my feeling too...

...this thread is more about clearing up this undocumented myth people keep handing out.

[applegrove]

49. They are letting this horrid story unfold by itself. It is so horrid, it

needs no kick from them. When they speak up - Bush makes himself their victim. If they don't speak up, Bush has to make the victims the victims.

The more Bush has to defend himself & spin, without using the Dems or attacking - the more he hangs himself.

Why should the Dems speak up? People are writing and talking about it. And they will be for months.

[Dr Fate]

86. I have no problem with that view point.

I'm just trying to clear up what I believe to be a myth- that Kerry, Dean & Hillary are being banned from TV appearances.

If they are "playing rope a dope" or some other failed strategy from the past 3 elections- fine- just dont tell me thay "would be calling Bush a liar, if only Larry King would let them on."

[blondeatlast]

57. I implore you, Dr. Fate, to read "The Republican Noise Machine."

It's a complicated process, but there is a systemic method to deny our best and brightest air time.

If nothing else, the book points out that organizations such as the Heritage foundation have BOOKING AGENTS on staff to get the RW's message out about nearly any subject.

I suspect mo one will be able to convince you, though, your mind is clearly made up.

[Dr Fate]

64. I've read Blinded By the Right and follow Brock on Franken & his site.

My mind is not made up- I just have a feeling that Dean, Kerry, Hill, etc have PR people who do ask producers for them to be on shows- it seems to make sense.

[blm]

63. You can't say it's crap. Tweety's producer during 2000 went on to a WH job

when Bush took office.

Bookers from MSNBC who called for Will Pitt to do an appearance as an analyst, cancelled him when he offered a different analysis on the preIraq war events than their preferred debate. Pitt wrote about it here at DU.

[Dr Fate]

66. I'm sure they did sand bag DUer, Will Pitt. What about Kerry, Hill, Dean ?

Since when is Pitt an elected Democrat that millions of people have heard of and gurantees ratings?

It is still a myth that top DEMs like Kerry, Dean etc are being refused access to interview shows- Will Pitt is a blogger, not a top, "Star" Democrat-

[blm]

97. My point was that the INNER workings of the production team assure that

on a daily basis the voices heard fit into the storyline they are pushing. I do believe that the DNC needs to get an AGGRESSIVE team of publicists who CAN outmaneuver and muscle their way into getting solid Dem voices heard from both the Senate and Congress.

Maybe you can ask Lieberman, Bayh and Biden and ask them how THEY get on tv so easily. Obviously Hillary can but chooses not to. Maybe she doesn't want to get overexposed and come off as shrill. I dunno.

All I do know is that the media has been manhandling the Dems since Clinton took office. They have been the bad guys for the last decade complicit with the Republicans. Do you think any working man would vote Republican if the media even told HALF the truth about Bush and his CRAFTED image as a leader?

I'm down with Media Matters....they know the score even when it isn't apparent or recorded in a document.

[FourStarDemocrat]

82. That also happened to Wesley Clark--banned from Lou Dobbs..

-In early 2003 for refusing to be 'gung ho pro war" as a CNN military analyst.

More recently (a few months ago), Wes Clark was hired by Fox News as a Military and Foreign Policy analyst. Faux put him on a few times with Bill O'reilly and Sean Hannity's show where they were completely overrun by Clarks arguments. And seeing how he doesn't swallow the right wing bait and gives a REAL analysis which takes Bushco to task, they rarely have him appear anymore.

So, the point is that Censorship of preogressive and progressive viewpoints is indeed taking place.

[McCamy Taylor]

65. "Repetition, my boy, repetition" Top dems dont have a gazillion

little media toadies and minor league Dems getting close to 24 hour TV news media air play repeating the Talking Points du Jour, the "Blame Game" of the Week and the Chocolate Coated Sound Bite.

Sure, Obama, Dean, Clinton x 2 are welcome on any talk show. They have their say, and their words are said and forgotten. But when Rove speaks, his words get echoed. And echoed. And echoed. Until they resonate in the hearts and minds of every American unfortunate enough to have his or her television set tuned to CNN or FOX (or once upon a time, MSNBC before the high price of oil started cuttting into GE profits).

So, anyone who says that top dems cant get on TV is full of it. Anyone who says that the messages of top dems doesnt get treated the same way that the messages of top GOPers (or even minor league GOPers) is right on the money.

[Dr Fate]

70. Now All that is true.

But they CAN get on the shows.

That means that we do have a chance to increase the "echo"- if we go on MORE. That is one of my points.- so thank you.

[McCamy Taylor]

73. You are welcome.

:)

[papau]

79. a chance to increase the "echo"- if we go on MORE - a great idea that I

endorse -

I just do not expect our current media to give our view much air time -

so those Dem's that do get on will be not as left in their views as the party - and indeed they will not change the topic and will only say that on today's topic they disagree with their good friends on the right.

See that on ABC's "This Week," with George Stephanopooulos on Sunday will get an interview with Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) in his first Sunday morning show appearance this year - but then we get a round-table panel of George Will, Newt Gingrich, and Fareed Zakaria - where Fareed will try to speak truth as the others spin - and there will be no counter spin from anyone on the left.

But Obama will get his first of the year Sunday talk show interview -

guess we should be pleased.....

[Dr Fate]

81. How about that? Obama will indeed be on TV again this week.

He was on Larry King earlier. I wonder if his PR booking agent has anything to do with these appearances- or did he sit around and wait to be invited? I dont know.

And the media "allowed" him to go on too.

Wonders never cease, do they?

[papau]

85. Do you understand the 3 to 1 ratio of Dem/Left airtime to GOP/right?

Indeed some folks get on - we are talking about bias - we are not talking about banning.

[Dr Fate]

87. I do understand and agree that that is an issue.

But people on DU tell me that "Kerry & Hilary would talk about the DMS, but they cant get on those shows- they have to be invited- they have been turned down before..."

Which no one can prove.

And there are shows that do one-on one interviews as well.

Personaly, I argue with 3 republicans at once all the time back in Georgia, it is not all that hard to refute Hannity talking points with a few blunt facts- but we digress- that is not the question or issue I bring up.

[papau]

89. Damn - we are agreeing after all these posts! Have a great

weekend!

:-)

[itcfish]

77. I Have

Heard Democrats say they cannot get the air time. I supposed that means they do not have a soap box. I heard Conyers,Baraba Lee and Biden, make this claim.


:dem:

[Dr Fate]

83. Now we are getting somewhere- link? Transcript?

Are we talking about press conferences & "releases"- or TV interview show appearances?

And I would not find it hard to belive that they turn down Conyers and other not-so-famous people for shows. But do they turn down guaranteed ratings draws like Hilary, Kerry or Dean? I doubt it. And that has been my exact argument since the DSM came out.

And if they can come out and admit this, then this is just what we need to make the case-as opposed to DU posts that say it. So show me that link.

I see Biden on TV interview shows a good bit- but show me what he said- this is great stuff if true.

I still dont think Kerry, Dean , Hillary & Obama have this problem- which is why I said "top" Democrats.

If certain DEMs or pundits cant get on, there are still "star" DEMs like Kerry, Hillary, Obama, etc who can. And that is exactly what my argument has been on about 20 threads.

[papau]

88. Good Grief - if that is the only point we agree - star Dems can get on

most likely but at the cost of overexposure and media put downs of the appearances - killing the star quality.

We can not get lesser Dem folk and God forbid on the left "experts" on to counter the flood of GOP "think tank" BS'ers, and the constant, right of Attila, GOP lesser lights that get on.

I do not know what media concept says just do Hillary 24/7/365 and we will get our point across, she will survive and do even better , and those at DU will be happy getting our point across because we all agree she speaks for us exactly as we would have our thoughts presented.

I wish it were that easy.

But I agree that at the present time, if Hillary were to offer herself up to the media on a daily basis, she would have a better than 20% chance of getting on (program directors and editors still want change from week to week)

[Dr Fate]

91. We must just like to argue.

Becuase it appears we basicaly agree- the only difference is that I demand DEMs openly make the charge it is happening as opposed to taking your word for it.

We cant fix it until they start talking about it, like the GOP did when they cried bias for 20 years.

Even still, the poster has yet to provide the link so we can see exactly what charge these low-level, non-house-hold name DEMs made.

[papau]

96. :-) sigh - Is there a 12 step program for "just like to argue"?

:-)

[Mass]

90. Biden? He is the only one who gets airtime.\nt

[Dr Fate]

92. I know- that is why I requested a link or transcript.

n/t

[rhett o rick]

93. I agree. There is more than one way to get on tv. Call a press conference.

[ClassWarrior]

95. Okay, point granted. Now tell us why they're not going on these shows.

You've lead the debate where you want it to go. Now take us the rest of the way... What's the conclusion you're going for?

NGU.

[LittleClarkie]

98. I keep saying that he's asking the wrong people

he's not going to get a definitive answer from us. And the fact that we can't give him an answer doesn't prove or disprove the point.

The only conclusion that I come up with is that most of these news shows lean to the right, and most Dems might now like the idea of being made to look bad by CNN or Fox or MSNBC. Perhaps they've learned that they don't get a fair shake from these people. We've all seen it -- hardball for the Dem, softball for the Republican, panels stacked in favor of Conservative.

Not making excuses, just trying to see possible reasons for the phenomenon.

Even PBS, which could be counted on to be fairly objective and informative, is in danger of becoming more conservative.

Damn, we need a news station that is more interested in reporting the news and less into playing these "point/counterpoint" games where even the most wacko point of view gets an airing because "well, we have to present both sides."

[Dr Fate]

99. They are "playing rope a dope?"

"Moving Chess pieces?"

"Being Nuanced?"

"Waiting for the right moment?"

"Frightened that Sean Hannity will compare them Micheal Moore & Moveon?"

"Being careful no to offend swing voters?"

I have no clue why the strategists who lost the 3 elections are telling them not to go on TV and talk about the DSM, for instance.

I do know , or at least I'm fairly sure, that it is NOT because they have been banned or do not have an avenue for access.

[ClassWarrior]

100. C'mon Doc... I asked for a straight answer to a specific question.

You've led us all down the primrose path. Now swing wide the garden gate for us! To what conclusion does all this sound and fury lead us? Go on... you know you're dying to tell us.

NGU.

[Dr Fate]

101. Why did they refuse to go on TV and talk about the DSM, for instance?

Just a guess:

They did not WANT to.

I cant prove it- but I'm pretty darn sure they could have gone on TV and talked about the DSM, Election Fraud, various Bush lies (and they could have used that word) if they had wanted to.

Either that or they were afraid that "Karl Rove would send them Anthrax." Right?

The only ones leading people down a primsrose path are the people giving BS excuses for why certain DEMs are not speaking up ON TV about issues the base cares about.

You can be sure to see hundreds more "DEMs need to go on TV and speak up about this..." type posts from me.

Just as sure, you will see people claim "Since when can Kerry or Dean go on TV?- they would love to highlight that issue on TV- but Larry King wont let them...blah blah blah."

[ClassWarrior]

103. I didn't ask for "guesses" Doc - I asked for a straight answer...

...to a specific question. C'mon. What's the reason?

NGU.

[Dr Fate]

102. Dig it- Howard Dean coming up on CNN:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4714706

[LittleClarkie]

104. A better thread

longer and more descriptive.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4714313&mesg_id=4714313