Sorry Howard, Second is not a victory... What do you make of a Second?

[mb7588a]

I don't mean this as flamebait, at all. Just an observation.

I heard one of the Hardball folks say a Dean second is a victory... Only a REAL underdog like Clinton can make that kind of claim.

Dean had double digit leads in New Hampshire... Second place is an upset.


After edit:
I apologize. I posted this without acknowledging a few things. My intent was not to make Kerry people look bad or to upset/rub the face of Dean folks. I was merely reacting, without reflection, to something I heard on the Television that I disagreed with. My sincerest apologies. I am not anti-Dean, nor have I ever done anything to come off that way here on this board.

I also now realize that upset is too strong of a word - perhaps disappointment? Let's talk about what a second place would mean for Dean... That was the intent of my post.

also edited title.

[La_Serpiente]

1. please, we don't need this on a night like this

on top of that, the full results are not even in. Trust me, you do not want it biting it back at you in the butt.

[frank frankly]

2. erase this post

you make Kerry look bad

delete it

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. Wow the first nasty pithy thread of the night

Guess first place isn't always an acknowledgement.

[arcos]

4. whatever....

:eyes:

If Dean comes out in first place, I hope you remember this thread.

[blm]

5. The real problem is Dean spent two years in NH. Spent millions of dollars.

That should have been his BEST showing.

His problem now is before Iowa his unfavorables were 34%...now they are at 43% and noone can compete with unfavorables that high.

[frank frankly]

12. we know that

just be gracious, blm

I love Howard Dean.

[flpoljunkie]

29. Remember Jan 11, Dean was at 36% and Kerry was at 10% in the ARG poll...

This was Kerry's low point.

[creativelcro]

56. BS: most independents in NH (they make up 37% of all voters)

are people who moved there from MA. Kerry has name recognition there...

[MercutioATC]

6. 2nd is most definitely a win...

...not in the sense that it'd be more meaningful than Kerry's first place finish, but in the sense that it would show that his freefall after Iowa has stopped and he's gaining support again.

To go from last week's "dead" campaign to a 2nd place finish ahead of Edwards would be huge.

[youngred]

well, Edwards never had much chance in NH

but the rest of your post I agree with

[Terwilliger]

7. this is nothing but flamebait

maybe you could talk about your candidate instead of slamming someone else

[jpgray]

44. Yes. Especially considering this spawned the other thread.

[youngred]

8. No need to throw water on the parade

its an admirable showing for someone who has been beaten pretty hard in the past week and a half.

[Ripley]

20. I just don't get it. Dean had to concede he was a LOSER in

Iowa because he came in third and now he supposed to again concede he is a LOSER if he comes in second. Gee how are the other 5 candidates supposed to feel. Drop out and crown Kerry after ONE primary?

Blech post (original one that is). :puke:

[THUNDER HANDS]

9. I agree with you

but this is still in poor taste and makes Kerry supporters look like they're gloating.

[mopinko]

10. i started to flame there.

but i caught myself. but really, we don't need this. it doesn't add anything to the debate/analysis at all.

[calimary]

57. You're right. It DOESN'T. DAMMIT.

How'd you like it if we Dean people started stickin' it to you before the primary's even an hour past?

Here's a hint for ya, okay?

I'd HIGHLY recommend you go easier on those who are not, or maybe not yet Kerry supporters. There are some who are wavering, especially as they see their candidate not doing so great and possibly facing "eviction." That could be Lieberman and Kucinich people, too, you know. Do you think for one instant that this kind of crap is an inducement for ANY of them to consider your guy? You're far more likely to alienate potential voters you and all of us are going to NEED, badly, to defeat bush in the fall. Is gloating - or even an appearance of gloating - worth that?

And fine, go ahead and flame me for over-reacting. You can tell me all night long that you were just stating a fact or some such. You could also have just as easily been misinterpreted to be rubbing it in. Especially if someone is already feeling stung by the results. Try and be a little more considerate, okay?

Sorry - I'm just a little sensitive about this right now, AS A DEAN SUPPORTER, OKAY?

And I must tell you, from personal experience, I myself am one of those wavering people, who realizes I might have to consider supporting John Kerry instead of the candidate I prefer and have already spent months supporting, attenting meetups for and sending money to. I'm ALREADY having enough of a struggle finding a way to do that - just looking at his voting record and the many ways he's caved to bush, and told people like me to "get over it" about the stolen election - without you "helping" me.

[LizW]

11. Would it be too much to ask

that you be happy for your candidate tonight and leave the rest of us the hell alone?

You don't want to say stuff you'll have to eat next week in South Carolina.

[youngred]

21. Very true

we'll see how all the handicappers whine and moan and obsfucate as more and more primaries begin

[WillyT]

13. You Do YOUR Candidate NO FAVORS HERE !!!

Wise up, please!!!

:grr::nuke::mad:

[Uzybone]

14. This is flamebait

lets not rub it in shall we. Rise above the riff raff.

[HuckleB]

15. This is total flamebait, regardless of your denial.

After the media hullabaloo of the last week, for Dean to make NH close is a victory. Deny it if it makes you feel better, but Dean is in this for the long haul, and Kerry has just begun to feel the heat of his backdoor negativity, among other criticisms. The only upset is how close Dean may have made it.

[Duncan Grant]

16. So much for civility...wtf?

Well, you know what they say about opinions...

[incapsulated]

17. Gah!

*smashes thread*

[AP]

18. Worse for Dean, if he finishes with 25% after saying he was within 3

of Kerry all day, it will be seen as a bigger loss.

[MsUnderstood]

19. Wait a minute

Dean was in the lead before the voting in Iowa. Once the vote in Iowa was revealed, Dean lost his position--not because of his speech but because people are voting for the most viable candidate. There is some kind of term for this effect--when past actions have an effect on future items-is it the hawthorne effect?


Too many people are swayed by what is popular rather than what they want.

We keep asking "who will beat Bush" and "Who is in the lead in the polls". Before Iowa, where was Kerry? He wins Iowa and now we are posting "who is Kerry's VP"?

As a Californian, and member of the 6th largest economy in the world I am alittle put off that my vote DOESNT EVEN MATTER in the primaries. Even if it did, so many Californians will be swayed by who is in the lead that the candidate that fits California's needs may not even be an option.

[Paragon]

22. Oh, you classy, classy Kerry people.

:eyes:

[La_Serpiente]

28. Hey

there are many Kerry supporters who don't agree with this thread.

I myself, Frank Frankley, and others.

Not to mention I've never seen this Kerry supporter before.

[youngred]

31. there have been several kerry posters denouncing this

don't paint with the broad brush that the thread starter is using

[blm]

32. Shh...we're "dead"... we're "toast"....

Don't worry. There isn't going to be much poppin' off tonight. The OP is still pretty mild.

[LostInTheMaise]

34. This last week of Kerry class has pushed me to Dean

I will now send it all to Dean and hope kerry retires into obscurity. I trust Dean and have lost all trust in Kerry and his tactics.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

35. Hey..I'm a classy (kinda) Kerry person...SO THERE!!

[Terwilliger]

41. you don't post "nyah nyah nayh" threads either

maybe you should reign in your Kerry supporting friends

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

45. Oh yeah..like I have any authority around here

:D

[Ripley]

46. Not what I heard.

I heard you had lots of leashes! ;-)

[Terwilliger]

51. you're a pretty persuasive chick

I'm sure you'll do well :hi:

[stuzzy]

23. you post stuff like this

and expect me to vote for your frankenstein look-alike if he wins?

[Cheswick2.0]

24. sure it is... it's a huge win

After what was thrown at him. Just watch,Dean will still be the story.

[lastknowngood]

25. if you don't mean it as flame bait then don't say it

[Tummler]

2nd wasn't a victory for Clinton in 1992, either

Say, whatever happened to that Clinton guy? He just faded into obscurity after Tsongas steamrolled to the nomination in '92.

(Disclaimer: I'm a Clark supporter who doesn't have a high opinion of gloat-threads, esp. premature ones.)

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. Sorry, that's rude.

:(

[LostInTheMaise]

27. I'll take Dean over Clinton ANYDAY

I respect Howard Dean and his wife. They beat the Clintons by miles.

[not systems]

30. At least he can take a punch...

what about Kerry his trial by fire is coming.

[Paragon]

33. No replies from the original poster? Nice cowardly dive bomb.

:mad:

[Duncan Grant]

37. Almost predictable isn't it?

It's the DU equivalent of "ring and run".

[mb7588a]

43. Sorry sorry! I can't say sorry enough.

I will watch myself forever more. It was a shortsighted observation made without reflection.... so.... prove me wrong! What is a second place?

I got up and went back to TV, hoping to come back to a debate about the meaning of a second. I didn't post anything that indicated that was my intent. I've edited now.

[Ripley]

39. Well, we could hijack it and talk about the Panthers!

Go Carolina....kick Patriot ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My bloodline is from NC...parents living near Wilmington. I'm so happy for Dad!

:toast:

[Duncan Grant]

48. What a great idea!

Ah-h-h, a voice from the wilderness! :7

[Ripley]

50. Cointainly.

Wait a minute wilderness...? You mean me? Not sure how to take that. :dunce:

[Duncan Grant]

53. I promise...

I mean it in the most complimentary way possible!

[Ripley]

54. Well, alrighty then!

Let's continue the hijacking. Altho I see the original poster is blubbering something about his innocent remarks!

I'm making muffalettas for the game in honor of Carolina's Cajun QB! How about you?

[frank frankly]

40. exactly

piece of shit disrupting post

[gardenista]

36. Wow. nt

.

[mzmolly]

38. So says you. I disagree.

:hi:

[La_Serpiente]

42. Why don't you delete it and save it for another day?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

47. Why don't you just get this thread locked and start over then

even your title is a cold cock to Dean's supporters.

[MidwestMomma]

49. Yes it is when a week ago the pundits called you DOA

Gives me hope for Clark.

GO Wes. Go Dean.

[tishaLA]

52. Congratulations Dean supporters!

I'm really glad about your candidate's comeback! Good luck in the future.

[Duncan Grant]

55. A first class post! Thank you! n/t

[mb7588a]

58. Please lock. I started a new thread with my original real intent.