Fight lies w/ Truth; Spin w/ Facts - Dems should set up Indep Investig

[WePurrsevere]

Since Republicans are going against what the majority of Americans WANT in blocking an Independent Investigation of the Katrina disaster; Since Republicans want to control the investigation so they can white wash it... I think the Democrats and any Dem leaning Independents, etc should set up a TRULY *Independent* Investigation in contrast and hold hearing much as Conyers with the DSM.

If the DU also made this an activist project as it has the DSM it might even get heard and in the media. IMO all Dems (and others desiring a "REAL" and independent investigation) should loudly proclaim that if the Republicans have nothing to fear they shouldn't have a problem with a REAL, open, non-partisan/independent investigation.

The ONLY way American's stand a chance of getting the TRUTH is if there is a truly independent investigation... similar but even better then the 9-11 commission.

What happened shouldn't have. Americans deserve better then BS excuses, pass the buck mentality, more lies and more spin. We deserve and demand the WHOLE and REAL truth.

[craigolemiss]

1. The problem with any unilateral commission

Is that the country is so divided that even if a Democratic investigation is set up no Republican will ever see the result---even simple facs (2+2=4) will be repudiated as partisan and lies by Republicans. So its one of those save the money and pick the right battles sort of things---I don't know if the resolution had been introduced by someone other than Sen. Clinton as has been suggested that it would have fared any better.

It was going to be a party line vote, and it was. The only thing I can see changing is if there is enough public outrage over the subject of a commission and Bush feels the heat. If tonights forray into the mind of Bush is a complete flop, then there may besome defections over the issue. If tonight is good or even spinnable to good then kiss any sort of realistic investigation goodbye.

If Dems DO regain the house in '06 or the White House in '08, I however would like to see an investigation begun into this entire fiasco, and hopefully there will still be a statute of limitations running on some of the crimes that have been committed in Washington in the bast 2 weeks.

[WePurrsevere]

4. There is no way to please both political parties completely if...

the one part in party refuses to have a REAL investigation. I agree that a Dem set up independent investigation won't please everyone anymore then we can ever realistically believe that BushCo will have 100% of the country stop drinking the grape Flavor-Aid. However IF the Dems and Independents, heck even REpublicans that really DO want to know (not necessarily Fed politicians only) get as non-partisan an investigation set up as possible, using as non-partisan experts as possible, witnesses, etc it may at least get the ball rolling while the trail is still fresh.

I'm just tired of the Dems rolling over and playing dead, if nothing else we need to keep asking "if nothing was done wrong, then what do you have to fear from a REAL investigation?" Hopefully most Americans will see this Republican power play as the cover up it is and it is because they're scared. Americans deserve an independent investigation and if the Republican politicians in power won't give them one then Dems and everyone else who really wants the truth needa to figure out a way to do so WITHOUT all the political dancing BS.

As for control of the house in '06 and White House in '08 we can but hope but first and foremost we need to get working harder on verifiable ballots and which from partisan owned voting machines. There are other electronic voting machines available that, much like ATMs, keep a log of everything that happens to the machine and will give a paper receipt of the vote... there is no excuse for not using this type of machine.

As for "statute limitations" I don't believe there is one for treason and murder.

[FormerDittoHead]

2. Got to read George Lakoff if you think "facts" will do the job...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1931498717/qid=1126808034/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-8464257-4519017?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Forward by Howard Dean, if you have any respect for him...

Exerpt:
http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/research/lakoff/howtorespond

"The facts unframed will not set you free. You cannot win just by stating the true facts and showing that they contradict your opponent’s claims. Frames trump facts."

[WePurrsevere]

3. Framed facts are still facts, So far I think I can agree with...

agree w/ much of what I skimmed on your second link so far, I'll be reading it more indepth when I have a bit more quiet and time and the book looks like one I should definately pick up when we have the funds. :) It so far looks like it suggests using basic psychology and good debating skills. If so I agree.. IME attacking people only puts them on the defensive, the way a good debater "wins" is by staying cool and the way to get someone's attention, much like the old commercial said, is to "whisper".

So how would you suggest Dems get an Independent Investigation if the Republicans are doing everything they can to block it?