CLARK Walks AND Chews Gum - Attacks BUSH on IRAQ, TERRORISM, & KATRINA

[FrenchieCat]

Article published Sep 15, 2005
Clark criticizes Bush on security

Retired Gen. Wesley Clark lambasted President Bush's administration on Wednesday for its handling of homeland security in the four years after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and its response to Hurricane Katrina, calling that response "fumbling, inefficient and dangerous."

Speaking to a crowd of a few hundred people on Wednesday at the O'Connell Center, Clark drew on his 34 years of military experience to outline a new strategy for American security that focused mostly on waging a war of ideas.

"You can't win a war of ideas by killing people," Clark said. "I'm not saying you can't use military force. But the relatives of the people you killed, mostly, they don't like you after that. They bear real grudges, and these people have big families over there."
snip
Clark said whether President Bush heeds his advice or not, he needs to find a new course of action in Iraq.
snip
Clark spoke for a full hour, then answered several questions from students on topics ranging from genocide in Africa to his favorite philosophers.
MORE......
http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050915/LOCAL/50915003/1078/news

Clark was actually speaking to a crowd of approx 1,000.....but we know how the media counts, don't we? :eyes:

[FrenchieCat]

1. More on that in another article.....

Clark warns of weak U.S. foreign policy
By ELIZABETH HILLAKER
Alligator Contributing Writer

Gen. Wesley Clark said America's foreign policy has been mostly ineffective in a speech on Wednesday night commemorating the fourth anniversary of Sept. 11, 2001. He took hard stances on economic, military and diplomatic issues.

"You don't win a war by killing people, you win it by changing people's ideas," Clark told an audience of about 1,000 at the Stephen C. O'Connell Center. The speech was sponsored by Accent, Student Government speaker's bureau.

He also commented on the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, saying he would have been on the ground in New Orleans from day one.

However, foreign policy was a larger theme of the general's speech. While the United States has not been hit by another terrorist attack since Sept. 11, 2001, the number of terrorist attacks worldwide has increased, he said.

He advocated reducing the government's overreliance on the military and instead empowering ideological arguments against those who use religion for murder.

"If you want to win, you start going on the offensive with ideas," Clark said.
More.....
http://www.alligator.org/pt2/050915clark.php

[PunkPop]

2. I understand the point he's making.

Violence is not effective because it just begets more violence.

However, this kind of made me cringe:

"They bear real grudges, and these people have big families over there."

Maybe he was just trying to be 'folksy' but it strikes me as rather simplistic. I think there are a plenty of good reasons for not relying on violence without resorting to stereotypes.

[FrenchieCat]

3. I think that he was making the point that killing only begets

more enemies, not friends.

BTW, I don't believe that there is a stereotype out there that Arabs Muslims have large families. I know that has been said about other minority groups, but I don't remember this one for Muslims.

As far as I'm concerned, sometimes it's a simplistic phrase like that one that makes absolutely clear an imagery to support the concept. When you kill one, you make 10 enemies.

Clark's said this in many different ways in the past.....

I think that he made himself crystal clear......

[dogman]

13. This point has been made before.

There are tribal alliances that come to bear but there are also cross tribal alliances due to marriage. You may think you can ally yourself with one group, as we saw this administration attempt in having Kurds and Shiites attack Sunni Fallujah, but due to intermarriage among these groups there are family ties that may cause that strategy to fail. Clark is aware of the cultural as well as the religious ties in Iraq. The neo-cons are either unaware or just as likely could care less.

[liberalitch]

16. Muslims see everyone in their communities as a vital part of the...

whole.... like family, that makes it a BIG family.

[faithnotgreed]

21. not to mention that whether one bears a grudge or not

is not the most important reason not to use violence/terrorism which is what this military and various govt arms are being used (by the cabal) to do

i like wes - he has a good heart and is intelligent and speaks plainly

it is unfortunate that military is so emphasized however
not only am i anti war (my opinion) but it is this govt that has directly caused or supported or been the originator of most of the terrorism that the masses think only comes from other nations

[FrenchieCat]

22. I understand what you are saying.....

and I agree that this country has played a large part in the history of why the state of affairs in various parts of this world are as they are....violent, ruthless and full of evil.

However, it would not be a recommended move for any leader to all of the sudden take the military option totally off the table.(plus that person wouldn't win an election anyways)

Progressing with the right type of intellectually honest diplomacy, and approaching those who are considered our enemies (while making an earnest attempt in understanding who they are and why they hate us) would go a long way in making the occurence of using weapons to settle differences less and less required eventually.

I know that you know, that America is not the only country in the world ran by non-benevolent leaders.

So no, I don't want a leader that is as naive as to think that soon the world will be singing Kumbaya holding hands across the world. That ain't gonna happen, so we need a leader grounded in the realities of the now, while moving forward to the "what ifs".

There is a reasoned and pragmatic position to be found between the true peaceniks "make love not war", and the Warmongerers....and this is what Wes Clark represents.

PLUS, to be honest, I don't really hear any other Dems with his strong credentials discussing to any depth greater than his the use of "talking", "reasoning" and attempting to "understand" our enemies (and in the real world, we DO have them....regardless of how it happened).

I'm anti-War too....

Read what Clark would have done about 9/11 to get a better perspective as to Wes Clark's approach....even 3 days after 9/11. He may not be who you think he is......
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=122187&mesg_id=122187

[Clark2008]

34. It wasn't a far stretch of a stereotype.

My ex-husband is Muslim and Arabic and they are taught to have many, many children. Just like we Catholics have been taught for years and years and years.

Just saying..

[Freedomfried]

45. Arab families are huge and very close knit....

family ties are unbreakable......


(ask the Bin Ladens)

[Totally Committed]

4. I found this a bit terrifying...

"If you think Katrina was bad, wait until you see a terror event here if we don't fix what was wrong during Katrina," Clark said.

I have thought a lot about that since Katrina. The Bush response was very scary inthat our President and Vice President were both on vacation, and did not head home, or show any concern for a disaster that was happening even as they enjoying themselves on those vacations. And, it was disgusting because the people who suffered and died and lost everything were the poorest of the poor, and (I still feel this was a factor) overwhelmingly Black.

Would they have responded the same if this had been a terrorist attack instead of a natural disaster? If so, we need to consider that the victims of a dirty bomb or a suicide bomber will have no time to evacuate, and (probably) will not know what to do or where to go. Will our "leadership" abandon us then, as well?

This is something that needs to be hammered home during the next election cycles... the Republicans are NOT the Party of National Security. They are NOT the Party that will keep America and Americans safe.

Speaking as Clark Supporter, this part was good, though:

Clark spoke for a full hour, then answered several questions from students on topics ranging from genocide in Africa to his favorite philosophers.

A student who led his question by saying he'd love to see Clark's name on the presidential ballot in 2008 drew wild applause from the audience. Though Clark only smiled in response, he said during a news conference earlier in the day it's an idea he hadn't ruled out.

TC

[FrenchieCat]

6. I understand that he spoke about Darfur quite a bit.....

as well as economics!

Guess he was Walking, Chewing and spitting all at the same time.

I am gonna recommend that his campaign song (if there is to be such a thing) should be the Black Eye Peas' "Where is the Love".....perfect for what he's preaching!

[Totally Committed]

11. Wes would speak about Darfur there...

He has spoken often about this tragedy. I think we all know that if it were up to Wes, we would NOT be in Iraq, and Darfur would be an American priority.

TC

[EC]

32. He was a professor of economics at

West Point (I believe).

[Adelante]

9. Amen, sister

"This is something that needs to be hammered home during the next election cycles... the Republicans are NOT the Party of National Security. They are NOT the Party that will keep America nd Americans safe."

[AX10]

14. Historically, Democrats have been the National Security...

party. Been that way since the 1790's. Vietnam changed all of that. I want Wes for President and I want the Democrats to take back the ribbon of "The Party Of National Security".

[TwilightZone]

5. Wow, a politician that actually realizes that all culture is not American.

And that American ideals and beliefs cannot be applied wholesale to other cultures, particularly during a fricking war!!!

Sorry, got a little excited there.

In other speeches, Clark has also made the point that when you kill the WRONG people, you REALLY piss people off.

It's simplistic, but it's the utter truth. Too bad that no one in our current administration can even begin to fathom that concept.

Hmm, simplistic. It seems that the general also understands what it takes to get points across to the average American. ;)

[FrenchieCat]

7. Yep.....keeping it simple for the 40-42% Stoopids

That don't quite get it.

KISS works much better on them!

[Pithy Cherub]

8. Clark is an ardent advocate for the people!

He gives actual examples, ramifications and ties everything to the future implications. Most importantly, Clark imbues the listener with a sense of hope in bleak times. The exceptional credentials to speak on all parts of the discussion are remarkable.

The Katrina comment is frightening along with the fact that many people can not grasp how a terror attack of massive proportions would devastate this nation. Clark speaking out is what is exactly needed right now. But, it is scary and even more terrifying because Clark has exceptional intuition and experienced insight.

[Adelante]

10. Not to mention expertise

In emergency preparedness and management. :scared: He knows precisely the shape we're in and it ain't good.

[vikegirl]

12. "lambasted"

I love it....when was the last time you heard a Dem do that to * and crew?

[xkenx]

15. Wes Clark is The Real Deal

Not since Bobby Kennedy have I been so inspired by a public figure.
Dems who do not yet know what we have in this national treasure should start doing their homework (see www.securingamerica.com for positions, etc) and spreadin' the word.

[Gregorian]

26. Yep. Same here.

And that's coming from someone who has a REAL problem with uniforms. Even my older parents who are also total pascifists loved Clark. We all voted for him. Damn, how we long for someone bright.

Clark is the adult in charge that we needed. Can't say enough good things about him.

[CarolNYC]

42. Bobby Kennedy...

I can relate to this feeling....Although I didn't even know Bobby Kennedy existed until well after he was gone, once I discovered him, I became totally fascinated with him and I've since read just about everything I can find about him. It's one of the deep regrets of my life that I'll never be able to see him live, to maybe shake his hand and tell him how much he's inspired me.

Being involved with the Clark campaign lessened that regret just a little because I think that maybe that's what it would have felt like had I been alive for Bobby....I remember discussing that with someone (who had been around for Bobby) on the very early days of the Clark blog....Like you, Wes inspires me like no one since RFK....

[xkenx]

44. JFK was

a Patrician who cared for all the people, but RFK was truly "Of the people." That is why he was even more loved than Jack. RFK Jr. has a lot of his father in him, doing wonderful environmental work.

[Iris]

17. I hope he runs again.

[MN ChimpH8R]

18. Is there any other prominent pol out there who thinks things through

as well as Clark does? He understands short and long-term considerations, that actions have consequences, not all of which can be predicted, and that an intelligent, thoughtul leader takes all of these things into account before acting.

I haven't seen this kind of systemic intelligence applied to political issues since Gary Hart in the mid-1980s.

Clark has my vote and active support if he runs in 08.

[phylla]

38. i agree, Hart was my candidate then and it is CLARK all day every day now!

[CarolNYC]

41. Gary Hart

There are apparently a number of Hart supporters that are in with the General now...some who worked for the Hart campaign.

I wasn't enough into politics when he was running to pay enough attention but I now have a great deal of respect for the man and it warms my heart to hear Hart folks liking the General....

[FrenchieCat]

19. Dem Mantra #1 that Clark is hammerin and needs to be repeated......

over and over again -- as stated by a poster above
the Republicans are NOT the Party of National Security. They are NOT the Party that will keep America and Americans safe."

Dem Mantra #2.....
"We are creating more enemies than we are killing"

Dem Mantra #3....
The military alone cannot solve our foreign policy problems"

Where Is The Love
by Black Eyed Peas

What's wrong with the world mama?
People living like aint got no mamas
I think the whole worlds addicted to the drama
Only attracted to the things that bring you trauma
Overseas yeah we tryin to stop terrorism
But we still got terrorists here livin
In the USA the big CIA the Bloodz the Crips and the KKK
But if you only have love for your own race
Then you only leave space to discriminate
And to discriminate only generates hate
And if you hatin you're bound to get irate
Yeah madness is what you demonstrate
And that's exactly how anger works and operates
You gotta have love just to set it straight
Take control of your mind and meditate
Let your soul gravitate to the love y'all

People killing people dying
Children hurtin you hear them crying
Can you practice what you preach
Would you turn the other cheek?
Father Father Father help us
Send some guidance from above
Cause people got me got me questioning
Where is the love? (where is the lovex3) (the love2x)

It just ain't the same all ways have changed
New days are strange is the world the insane?
If love and peace so strong
Why are there pieces of love that don't belong
Nations dropping bombs
Chemical gases filling lungs of little ones
With ongoing suffering
As the youth die young
So ask yourself is the loving really strong?
So I can ask myself really what is going wrong
With this world that we living in
People keep on giving in
Makin wrong decisions
Only visions of them livin and
Not respecting each other
Deny thy brother
The wars' going on but the reasons' undercover
The truth is kept secret
Swept under the rug
If you never know truth
Then you never know love
Where's the love y'all? (I don't know)
Where's the truth y'all? (I don't know)
Where's the love y'all?

People killing people dying
Children hurtin you hear them crying
Can practice what you preach
Would you turn the other cheek?
Father father father help us
Send some guidance from above
Cause people got me got me questioning
Where is the love? (where is the lovex3) (the lovex2)

I feel the weight of the world on my shoulder
As I'm getting older y'all people get colder
Most of us only care about money makin
Selfishness got us followin the wrong direction
Wrong information always shown by the media
Negative images is the main criteria
Infecting their young minds faster than bacteria
Kids wanna act like what the see in the cinema
Whatever happened to the values of humanity
Whatever happened to the fairness and equality
Instead of spreading love, we're spreading anomosity
Lack of understanding, leading us away from unity
That's the reason why sometimes I'm feeling under
That's the reason why sometimes I'm feeling down
It's no wonder why sometimes I'm feeling under
I gotta keep my faith alive, until love is found

People killing people dying
Children hurtin you hear them crying
Can you practice what you preach
Would you turn the other cheek?
Father Father Father help us
Send some guidance from above
Cause people got me got me questioning
Where is the love? (fade)

[GRLMGC]

20. He's great

I'm glad to have someone really strong on our side.

[cwydro]

23. Terrific

glad he's speaking up. A military guy opens up some ears that wouldn't listen to other reasonable voices.

[BlueJac]

24. Clark in 2008

[HoosierClarkie]

25. He has always had a way with words!

:applause:

[mopinko]

27. i was suspicious of clark

the way he came into the race stunk. and he seemed to good to be true. but the only guy i would prefer would be al gore. and a gore/clark ticket would be a strong progressive match made in heaven.

[Nothing Without Hope]

28. We need to ask Clark what to do about the PRE-EMPTIVE NUCLEAR STRIKE

policy that is nearing approval - Rumsfeld will surely sign it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1770759
LBN Forum thread title: Pentagon Revises Nuclear Strike Plan

What can we do to stop this insane step toward nuclear World War III? If nothing is done, they will nuke Iran and Syria.

For anyone who can reach and communicate with Clark, WE MUST KNOW HOW WE CAN FIGHT THIS DEVELOPMENT!!!!!

I plan to post a new, updated thread on this vitally, centrally important issue of the approaching pre-emptive nuclear strike policy and will post the link here when I do.

[FrenchieCat]

39. I'll pass it on....

but you should also go to securingamerica.com, sign up with the community, as you automatically get your own blog, and blog this story.

Clark will be talking to us some more very soon!
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/583#new

[Clarkie1]

29. fumbling, inefficient, and DANGEROUS

Don't hear dems use that strong of language often, but it's very true.

[CarolNYC]

31. Yeah, that line stuck out for me, too...

Good for Clark, once again, telling it like it is...

Nancy Pelosi called him dangerous, too, didn't she? And took a lot of shit for it...

[Nothing Without Hope]

30. Hello all you freepers who keep saying that the 2008 nomination is

"Hillary Clinton's to lose." YOU WISH!!!!

[Dinger]

33. "You Can't Win A War Of Ideas By Killing People"

Ahhh, my guy Wes is so . . . . . REAL! Bless him:loveya:

[bluedawg12]

35. He's a smart man and a leader! n/t

[adigal]

36. I want Gore or Clark for our next president

Republican-lite Hillary can go pound salt.

[Totally Committed]

47. "Republican-lite Hillary can go pound salt"...

Amen to that.

I have said before and I will say again: We cannot govern if we cannot WIN. The Republican-lites have had their day in the sun. Katrina changed everything. We can no longer allow on part of this Party to keep us from competing with the Republicans in a way that will bring us victory. The poorest of this country AND the people of Color deserve better from us. We have been promising them social and moral equity and justice for decades, and have yet to deliver. Well, TIME TO DELIVER FOR THEM AND FOR OURSELVES! It's peddle to the metal time for this Party. We either ARE who we have said we are, or WE ARE NOT.

I, personally, do not believe Hillary can win. But, if all that kissing up to the Bushies by Bill and Newt by her did, in some way "fix" her win, the poorest and those of color will be no better off after her win than before. The DLC will have won, the poor will still be poor, the people of color will still be being strung along, and we will have failed to rebuild this country as one equal for ALL.

I believe that sincerely, and with all my heart. I truly believe 2008's election is NOW OR NEVER time for us and this Party.

TC

[Maccagirl]

37. Please America!

Wake up, get some common sense and listen to this man!

[autorank]

40. Great one, Mlle Frenchie! Walks, chews gum, and thinks too!

:spank: the chimp!

[AuntiBush]

43. Amazing, isn't it.

Kidding, because this is what a leader does, and some.

Not napping, biking, reading pet-goat books, robbing an entire nation of it's literal breathe, and stay the course of remaining "balanced."

[Donna Zen]

46. No matter the subject:

What always shines through in Clark's words is a love of this country, and a belief in its ideals. When I listen to the average political, the overly hedged, cynically crafted message is not about this country, it is about love for their own political hides. Telling the truth, loving the country, believing in small "d" democracy, is of the greatest importance to our future. That is what Clark has always brought to podium, and that is what will "change the course."

Thanks for this thread. And yes, since this speech was given in a packed gymnasium, with people up to the rafters, I would think that a "few hundred" is the continuation of the art of republican counting procedures.