Tom Vilsack: FEMA has become a "turkey farm."

[wyldwolf]

All too often, conservative ideologues who now honeycomb the halls of our great public buildings in Washington have promoted the idea that government is an alien institution that illegitimately confiscates and redistributes resources to no great purpose other than sustaining our armed forces at the absolute minimum of effectiveness. These ideologues have viewed government, even the federal government they control from top to bottom, as a necessary evil to be tolerated, an obstacle to be overcome and undermined, a "beast:" to be starved. And worse yet, when their plans to dismantle government are thwarted, they tend, not surprisingly, to view federal agencies as little more than a vast patronage opportunity for fellow-partisans who don't much believe in the missions they are supposedly pledged to perform.

This ideology explains how a vital public entity like FEMA, a model of responsive government just a few years ago, became what insiders call a "turkey farm," a holding pen for political operatives needing employment between campaigns.

And this ideology explains why the administration's opposition to retaining some civil service protections in the Department of Homeland Security -- an opposition couched in claims that Democrats were risking our national security -- appears to have been motivated in part by a desire to accommodate political appointees with few qualifications.

If this mix of hostility and indifference towards government's positive role in our national community had brought us a cheaper and leaner federal government, it might have served some positive purpose. But as we all know, the federal government has become fatter and meaner instead. We are learning every day that there really is something worse than a big, debt-ridden government that tries to do too much and fails. It's a big, debt-ridden government that tries to do too little, and succeeds.

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=137&subid=900109&contentid=253530

[Frances]

1. I agree with this article

Can someone explain to me why so many on DU hate the DLC more than they hate Bush?

[spaniard]

2. It's an odd "fan boy" type situation.

I'll explain.

"fanboys" are the types who stand in line for weeks for the latest starwars - star trek - lord of the rings movies and such.

They live and breathe it.

They reach a point where they feel they can do a better job with the characters in starwars/trek/rings (etc.) than the creators or the current stewards.

Now, of course, politics are much more important than these movie franchises but the principle is the same.

The fanboys see the DLC as standing in their way of controlling things and running things their way.

I'd not heard of the DLC until I came to DU. But since then I've studied that organization and found they are not the beast they're made out to be. They have been successful, which has limited the success of those who are further left.

Just my take.

[calimary]

4. Welcome to DU!

Fan boys or no, DLC or no, we still have to work on IMPEACHMENT!

Here's hoping you can help a little!

[Frances]

7. Thanks for the explanation

nt

[spaniard]

3. Yes, Vilsack brings it!

[Ignacio Upton]

5. I'm glad that Vilsack is pulling punches in his speech

But if the DLC doesn't get their act together and shed their accomodationist policy, then I don't see them becoming even more irrelevent than they already are.

[spaniard]

6. I'm interested in knowing

...why you believe they're irrelevent?

[wyldwolf]

8. well, in reality they're not

Five of the top seven Democratic choices for the nominee in 2008 are DLC. Rounding out the top seven is one guy often "accused" by the left of being DLC and another guy often accused by the left of being a Republican (and who got one of his major campaign 2004 platforms from the DLC.)

Not to mention another DLCer not on the public's radar yet but getting globs or press as a potential Presidential candidate.

Some on the left demand Lieberman's ouster yet they wouldn't back an opposition candidate so he dropped out.

DLC governors and Senators are highly popular in their states and would easily survive a challenge from the left.

So when you hear someone say the DLC is irrelevant, what they're actually saying is that the DLC is irrelevant to those who don't like them.

[OzarkDem]

10. 2008 is a long way off

I'd suggest you take a look at the long history of low rankings of Dems in Congress. Dems in Congress have been following the DLC formula and it hasn't helped them at all.

Law of Diminishing Returns.

[wyldwolf]

12. 2008 is a long way off.

So perhaps you're saying the DLC MIGHT be irrelevant in 2008? Because right now, they're not.

Actually, I've been looking at the HIGH ranking of DLC and DLC-like Dems in Congress.

Clinton - 69%
Bayh - 63%
Biden - 64%
Conrad - 69%
Lieberman - 68%

Can you show me some the history of the low ranking of DLC dems in congress?

[spaniard]

13. thanks, wyldwolf - you're one of the few who actually bring facts

..to the table in these discussions.

Some may not always like the facts, but they're facts just the same.

And I, too, would like to see the history of low rankings for DLC democrats the other poster speaks of. Is there some trend? Is there some evidence the DLC model led to low rankings?

[OzarkDem]

9. Because they no longer put out good policy.

They've been eclipsed in that department by groups such as Center for American Progress, who does a much better job.

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/c.biJRJ8OVF/b.8473/

[spaniard]

11. After reading the DLC's website, I'm quite impressed ...

...with some of their policies

on taxes...

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=125&subid=163&conte...

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=125&subid=163&conte...

..and energy:

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=116&subid=155&conte...


But I'll read your link, too.

[OzarkDem]

14. I know you are, spaniard

you and wyldwolf play this little game regularly.

You keep playing piano in the DLC house of ill repute, but not many have gone upstairs yet.

[SaveElmer]

15. More than one third of the Senate Democrats...

Have "gone upstairs."

[OzarkDem]

18. But none of the electorate

Actually the 1/3 of Senate Dems are the ones "working" upstairs.

[SaveElmer]

22. Really...?

So the electorate that put these people in office, and continue to give them high ratings are just being duped than I guess?

[annabanana]

16. hee hee . . . . . . n/t

[wyldwolf]

17. what game is that?

two people converse on a topic? That's a game?

But sometimes a feel like it's game with you.

So when do we get a look at that "long history of low rankings of Dems in Congress... following the DLC formula?" Surely you have the stats handy.

[OzarkDem]

19. Here ya go

http://www.pollingreport.com/congjob.htm#Democrats

[wyldwolf]

20. That's Democrats in Congress as a whole - doesn't prove your point at all

Remember, you said, "the long history of low rankings of Dems in Congress... following the DLC formula and it hasn't helped them at all.

That link shows rankings of Democrats in Congress as a whole, and most certainly doesn't show any distinction between those "following the DLC formula" and those who are not. So those low rankings would also include Ted Kennedy, Dennis Kucinich, Cynthis McKinney, Barbara Boxer, etc.

The link also doesn't show a particularly long history.

In fact - and just considering the Senate and not the House -


Byron Dorgan - 70% approval
Thomas Carper - 66% approval
Joe Lieberman - 68% approval
Kent Conrad - 69% approval
Tim Johnson - 67% approval

Five of the top 10 highest rated Senators (Dem and Rep combined) are DLC Democrats.

In comparison, Barbara Boxer (for example) has a 49% approval rating.

Still waiting for proof that following the DLC formula has somehow contributed to low Congressional approval ratings...

[SaveElmer]

21. You won't get it Wyldwolf...

The stats do not exist...these DLC bashing threads contain nothing but the same tired rants everytime with no stats to back them up. Of course when stats are presented that refute their arguments, the rants start to include the gatherers of the statistics.

Did you know that the ADA is actually a right wing front organization?

[Totally Committed]

23. A complete lack of statistics, rankings, or concrete data...

I have tried to stay out of this thread (1) Because I thought my head would explode after reading a couple of posts in it last evening, but also (2) Because I felt I had nothing constructive to say. I had my own say the other day about the DLC ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2089229 ) and felt DLC proponents had a right to make their case unhindered by me. I felt it was a respect thing.

But, I would like to respond to what I read here this morning, and then be done: My (read: mine, personally) "Anti-DLC" feelings and posts, are for the most part, definitely not based on statistics, rankings, or concrete data. I have read a lot about the DLC since discovering my aversion to some of the people and policies associated with it, but I try not to be too specific with data and such when I write about them because I want to convey how personally disturbing I find most things about this group. Their policies, again for the most part, offend the part of me that is so committed to social and economic justice for all people, not just the ones who have Stock Portfolios. I am not saying there is no feeling for social justice in the DLC, as a whole, but I have just seen so little.

Hurricane Katrina, for me, brought home the fact that I can no longer wait for my Party to do right by the desperately poor, and people of color. I thought, at one point, all I had to do was support any Democrat, and surely, eventually, this Party would nominate the right candidate, and begin to do the right thing. The last election cycle proved to me just what pie-in-the-sky bullshit that was. A new "me" was born the minute I saw Kerry walk away from that microphone after conceding. The piece of me that was able to support every element of this Party unconditionally died right then and there. I was done.

But, still, I wrestled with how best to support the only Party I felt could or would ever even consider policies that could even approximate the social, moral, and economic justice needed to restore the America I saw the Bushies killing in front of my eyes. I felt it needed to be torn down, and rebuilt from the ground up. I had paid dear attention to the last campaign and I took names and was prepared to kick ass, but still working to repare and replace was surely the way to go. Third Party was out, because no Third Party can win as long as the Electoral College is in place.

Anyway, to make a long story short....... my opposition to the DLC is no less real because it is overwhelmingly visceral. I can no longer continue to allow this arm of this Party to provide the candidates, the advisors, or the policies that represent it simply because it has more power and corporate money behind it. THEY LOSE NATIONAL ELECTIONS. It would be like saying I felt it was okay for the biggest bully to walk away with my lunch money just because he can. Watching the aftermath of Katrina has made that impossible. Anyone who can watch a child look into a tv camera and beg... BEG!!!!... for food or for help finding his or her parents and not be changed forever is made of different stuff than I.

We cannot govern if we cannot win. It is time to start winning, and providing for the least among us. We cannot allow the Republicans to wipe out whole races and classes of people just because they are not affluent or white. And, we owe it to every person who suffered, or died, or was displaced by this administration to fight with our bare knuckles, getting down and dirty if we must, with any entity (even one in our own Party) that cannot provide what this country needs to survive, intact, and for all. I want my Party up and off its knees and ready to do battle, and I simply to not see any willing warriors in the DLC. I do not see any policies based on social justice in the DLC. I see collusion, I see go-along-to-get-along, I see play nice, I see voting with the Republicans way too often, and my soul screams ENOUGH!

That's why I cannot support the DLC. No facts or figures, no graphs or ranking, no smoke and mirrors, no effing bullshit! We are either the Democratic Party or we are not. We are either the Party of PEOPLE first, or we are not. We are either the Party of PEACE or we are not. I haven't got the time for bullshit anymore. America hasn't got time for bullshit anymore. And the poorest people in this country, and people of color, who have trusted us for years, when we have promised to deliver justice and equality and The American Dream for them, are not going to be shafted by this Party again on my watch without a fight.

TC

[KoKo]

24. Thanks for saying this. Well Said!

So many of us have reached your conclusion after long experience with the DLC's policies and three failed elections offering candidates that offer little difference from the Repugs, except they are "kinder and gentler" one is supposed to assume. Candidates outside the DLC mold are pushed to the sidelines and not defended by the DLC heirarchy. DLC can be as rigid as the Repug Machine in only supporting those who tow their line.

Anyway, thanks.

[Totally Committed]

25. Thanks, KoKo, and

I ain't just saying it, I'm meaning it.

Enough is effing enough!

The "Bottom Line" should have nothing to do with bank statements post-Katrina. The Bush lack-of-response was a declaration of war on the poor and people of color. We are either ready, willing, and able to fight for them and ALL WE HAVE PROMISED THEM IN THE PAST, or we need to sit down and shut up forever, because our abandonment of those people will be, at that point, as criminial and pre-meditated as the Bushies'.

TC

[OzarkDem]

26. Good post

As someone who has managed many Dem campaigns, (many in conservative districts) and a former member of the DLC, I feel very strongly that its time to develop a new strategy for winning races.

At one time, I thought the DLC formula (and there is one, BTW) was a winner. It looked good on paper. But after seeing it fail time and again, I knew it was time to give it up. Its a cookie cutter approach that works in very few elections and fails in many. (Shall we list all the DLC candidates who've lost races in the last few years?)

No one is more disappointed than I am that DLC dropped the ball and retreated to unimaginative ideas and policy instead of trying to come up with a new strategy. It was even more disappointing that, instead of trying to adjust the formula, they chose to blame other Dems for their own failures. They have a chance to redeem themselves, if they can come up with some truly innovative ideas again, but it doesn't seem likely at this point.

[wyldwolf]

29. are you going to hide behind that post?

At least Totally Committed says his feelings about the DLC aren't based on any statistics, rankings, or concrete data. But you tend to present "facts" that turn out to be NOT facts.

So I'll ask again --- prove that following the DLC formula has somehow contributed to low Congressional approval ratings. And, based on your most recent reply, show us how the DLC formula has failed "time and time again" in comparison to, say, whatever formula other Democrats use.

I do find it interesting that you have worked "many Dem campaigns" and I don't doubt you for a second. But campaigns are run, won, and lost, in part, on research and statistics. So surely you have some of that on hand to make your points.

Per Spaniard's post above, I happen to believe that the DLC's policies are very innovative.

on taxes...

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=125&subid=163&conte ...

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=125&subid=163&conte ...

..and energy:

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=116&subid=155&conte ...

What are some of the "truly innovative" policies that more progressive organizations have developed on those topics?

[Totally Committed]

32. Not to nitpick, but, I am proudly a SHE...

Second time today, though. I must be coming off macho or something.

TC

[wyldwolf]

27. ya know, everytime I get into a discussion with a rightwinger...

...that's essentially the same response I get. "Facts? We don't need no stinkin' facts!"

I'm not at all saying or implying you're a rightwinger, but it is the same technique.

Anyway - at least you're honest about it.

[Totally Committed]

30. Can't we just agree to disagree?

Nowhere in my post did I call you names or get personal. If you want to go tit for tat, RW-ers usually reply by calling their opponents names. So, I guess, using your logic, that makes us even.

The DLC is not my thing. If I took the time to do a treatise on it, I assure you I could come up with facts figures, graphs, links and everything you'd like, but the fact is, I am going to use my energy otherwise. I have stated that my reaction to the DLC is very gut-level and emotional. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

TC

[wyldwolf]

31. hey, Totally Committed - you're right

My response to you was really more of a response to OzarkDem, who keeps throwing out facts then retreating from them.

Yeah, we can agree to disagree on this - at least until Bush and his gang are history. :)

[Totally Committed]

33. Thank you! That is so nice of you to say...

You are a class act, wyldwolf!

TC

[cranston36]

28. HHS Is a Turkey Farm Too

The H5N1 avian flu virus has killed more than 60 people in Asia and if it gains the ability to pass between humans the way it passes between birds the deadly virus could be spread around the world within 24 to 48 hours.
H5N1 was believed to have originated in southeast Asia. It has impacted domestic chicken and duck flocks in Vietnam, Thailand and southeastern China’s countryside.
Newspaper readers and television viewers are told, the victims have mostly been poor.
The reason for the poor bird farmers dying is that unlike people with expendable income they figured they had the normal flu and stayed home to sweat it out.
In fact, the United States has millions of poor people and hundreds of thousands of them are employed in jobs that have direct contact with domestic flocks of chickens, ducks, turkeys and other birds.
Among this group of Americans are the legions of illegal aliens employed by companies like Tyson. These unfortunate workers are notorious for avoiding contact with doctors or government representatives as they fear being deported.
No effort has been made to contact these people about this very real threat and companies like Tyson have continued their operations without apparent thought to the safety of their workers or their nation.
The best defense that can be hoped for is that a stockpile of Tamiflu can be assembled before H5N1 mutates into a form contagious in humans.
In absence of that the alternative is crossing our fingers, praying and waiting.