Conservatives have lost their way.

[bluedawg12]

They used to make some sense.

Less taxes.

Family sensibilities.

Smaller government.

Fiscal responsibility.

No nation building.

Strong national defense.

What has happened to the conservative party? They have certainly lost their way.

Perhaps, having thrown self interest out the window in favor of non-existent cultural wars prefabricated by those who would that we rule in a monopolar world, they have lost their way.

Reduced to shrill name calling, fill in the blank___liberals, not too clever either, and silly slogans like Taxachuessettes, the “war and spend conservatives” have now awkwardly adopted the mantle of social consciousness about as naturally as a pig flies a helicopter, that is to say, it’s a sight to behold.

I’m not counting them out yet- because fear is a strong glue that binds tight, and they do have some fears that are lulu’s. But, still, having seen them lose their way I miss the clear vision, even if it was tunneled, and am saddened to see a dogged adversary reduced to high school cheerleader stunts, and nasty fat boy geek pushes up his glasses on his pink nose speeches by once feared strategist.

They are as voices crying in the wilderness, crying like little girls. Once we sorted out the facts from the lies, now we merely sort through the lies.

Get well soon enemy mine.

Are any strong and smart liberals here saddened?

[orwell]

1. All is Circus

and deception. We have all lost our way. That is the tax of empire.

And as this world crumbles, another rises.

[ladylibertee]

2. Hey Liberals!Let's do something good .Here is my sugestion...

Let's help evacuate all the Conservatives from the RIGHT, put them on MODERATE METRO BUSES, and make a LEFT at the stop sign. HA HA HA
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :kick: Bu bye Bush Bu Bye

[bluedawg12]

3. it's time we started defining the cons for a change. heh n/t

[ladylibertee]

4. I'm thinking of that boy on the SIMPSON's Not Bart, the one who

always goes around saying HA HA ....

[bluedawg12]

5. HAAA HAAA that one?

I know him beats up on Bart always.

[ladylibertee]

7. Yeah....I wish we could send a postor to the White House

[Der Blaue Engel]

6. Nelson

:)

[ladylibertee]

8. Yeah....HAAAA HAAAAAAA

[hippiechick]

15. That's Nelson

:hi:

[MojoXN]

16. Nelson Muntz

Ha... Huh?

MojoXN

[applegrove]

9. Someone once pointed out that the Rove plan for 30 year reign

involved smashing the political truths and rebuilding based on a coalition from the moderates.

That is why lefties are always painted as "anarchists" and far rights are encouraged in their growth by the like of Anne Coulter.

I don't think it is going very well.

At 37% - seems the only group Rove has are the far rights.

[TheStates]

30. That plan already failed miserably-

Time for Plan B: Diebold.

That's what got them through 2004 in the first place, a Diebold election.

[DarkTirade]

10. It's because conservatives now

aren't really conservatives anymore. Sure there are a few left that actually believe in such things, but for the most part, people who vote republican now are not fiscally or governmentally conservative at all. They vote for 'morals' and religion. (I always find it ironic that you would vote for a politician based on 'morals'. Anybody else see the irony there, or is it just me?)

[mrcheerful]

11. Just when was that?

Sorry but for as long as i can remember conseritives have always stood for pandoring to the rich. The cons always had this holier then thou give to the rich take from the poor attitude. They have always thought that it was ''their' tax dollars and they are the only ones who are being taxed. The only difference is today they pandor to the religious fundemental terrorists calling themselves chirstens.

[Telly Savalas]

12. Can we quit romanticizing conservatism?

For fuck's sake, this is a progressive message board, not PatBuchanan.org.

If anybody really wants to get back to the Golden Age of Conservatism, maybe we should start by reinstating the House Committee on Unamerican Activities. Or perhaps bring back separate water fountains for "Whites" and "Coloreds". Bush may be an asshole, but so were Herbert Hoover, Joseph McCarthy, and Archie Bunker.

What makes sense about less taxes and smaller government? The point of liberalism is that an activist government funded by a progressive tax system addresses social problems. Fuck.

[bluedawg12]

17. Uh this is romaniticizing their tunnel vision?

I am trying to give them a dose of their own medicine, maybe my irony sucks, but they ain't glorified.

Unless, you think that pointing out how they have totally been taken over by far right wing extremist neocon radicals masquerading as conservatives is somehow romantic.

The other thing I am trying to do, and will continue to do, is to give them a heaping does of their own medicine. I have sat here for years listening to right wingers and repukes define us..me!

I am tired of them telling me, loudly over the bullhorn of multiple media outlets, ala Horse-face-Coulter-RW-Harpie, Fats Limpbags, Sean Insannity, etc...about what it means to be part of the left wing, liberal, bi-coastal, tax spending, godless, fruity..well, you know the smears. They have been defining us, they talk about US more than they talk about themsleves, so this is just a way to point out that they are hypocrites--and dumb enough to have been duped by the, "war and spend" right wing elite, conservative- multinational corporate business complex.

And Buchanan is useful, because we can throw his paleo-con position right back at the neocons and play up that division between the con factions.

Besides, Buchanan is such an dufus he still thinks Nixon was robbed.

[Telly Savalas]

19. Claiming the conservative movement has been taken over by extremists

implies they weren't extremists to begin with. This is romanticizing their cause.

There is no major difference between the conservatism of the Bush Administration and that of Reagan 25 years ago or Joseph McCarthy 50 years ago.

[bluedawg12]

20. Telly- well, this may simply be that I have

come to pay more attention to this crap at long last and the light has gone on.

And, that I have been confused about the division between neocons and paleocons and find that it is a useful wedge.


peace.

[Telly Savalas]

21. I'll grant that it's a useful wedge.

I just see way too many people here showing excessive sympathy for the paleocons, and am a bit hypersensitive to it. So sorry if I came across as too harsh.

Cheers.

[DarkTirade]

25. There have always been moderate conservatives...

I.E., those who don't want their government money wasted on things that don't seem to help society, but don't mind the basics that are needed to keep society running.
Unfortunately, that viewpoint really isn't represented anywhere, so they just end up voting Republican.

[Telly Savalas]

26. Whoah.

So if conservatives are people who don't want government money wasted on things that don't help society, what does that make liberals?

[DarkTirade]

29. People who have a more open idea

of what helps society. :)

[Lochloosa]

13. Conservatives are not running our country right now.

Fascist are!

http://www.americanfascistmovement.com/platform.htm

Corporatism and the Corporate State - Fascism recgonizes the nation as an organism with a purpose, a life and means of action transcending those of the individuals of which it is composed. To limit such an organism to a purpose within itself, to the mere service of its constituent parts, would be a denial of the whole philosophic concept of the corporate state. People of worth will sacrifice their immediate welfare to the needs of their careers. Similarly, the Corporate state must not be considered soley as a means of good government. It is also the means of self-expression of the nation as a corporate whole in the attainment of its national destiny.

[Bassic]

14. There's a big difference between

traditional conservatives and neo-cons. Unfortunately, the former have not yet rebelled at the distortion of their beliefs by the latter.

[Skittles]

18. they haven't "lost their way"

people are finally figuring out what those bastards are really all about

[bluedawg12]

22. There is a divide we can exploit

I'm working through this thinking process myself..so I am throwing these ideas out there.



be patient brothers and sisters some good may yet come of this.

This is a good read:
http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showpost.php?p=72641&postcount=1

Why Paleo-Conservatives and the American Right Fail

"In contrast to such a weltanschauung, what is commonly described as paleo-conservatism in the states instead bemoans the destruction of the old order without out ever considering the inherent, systemic contradictions which left it vulnerable to subversion. This fixation upon idealizing bygone eras has left the paleos with little of substance to promote other then an adherence to the institutional norms of the Jeffersonian era, the Antebellum South or the ‘50s. Almost never do paleos dedicate any serious effort to explain why the salad days of their favorite era collapsed into the current crapulence with so little resistance. Rather, they speak of the rise of the "managerial" or "nanny" state, the evil of some Supreme Court ruling/bit of legislation, the corrupting impact of the Federal Reserve or the "lose of the nation's moral compass" almost never suspecting the old order they revere had it's own limitations long surpassed or even that it held the seeds of it's own demise.

A consequence of this populist nostalgia is an infatuation with the notion that adherence to constitutionalism will somehow "turn back the clock" and end the cultural Bolshevism that defines the post-American present. Of course the notion that the legal institutions born of the liberalism of the late 1700s can somehow make a comeback without the societal conditions that gave rise to them is seen as farcical to anyone familiar with the decline of Traditionalism as a consequence the undisciplined rise of technology as described by Heidegger & Weber in detail and briefly by Dr. Pierce. Legal doctrines and social institutions can't outlast the society that created them and institutions/doctrines that promote atomistic individualism have as a logical consequence the opportunity for societal discord and the devolution of Traditionalism. "

The right is divided, it seems:

http://www.amconmag.com/12_16/review6.html
The Paleo Persuasion

"As the neoconservatives emerged into prominence, most paleos more or less welcomed them, believing their contributions were largely positive and that if they could move no further to the right then, they might do so in time. Certainly that was Mel Bradford’s view before he enjoyed the benefit of their malicious attentions. By the late 1980s, however, no informed paleo harbored any such illusions any longer. Critics of paleoconservatives who raise an eyebrow at the bitterness and sheer hatred that paleo polemics with neocons sometimes display will find in Scotchie’s book a good deal of explanation for such passions.

The second reaction that elicited the emergence of paleoconservatism was what most paleos began to grasp as the intellectual, moral, and political collapse of the mainstream conservative movement itself. Not only did such stalwarts of the mainstream Right as National Review and various Washington think tanks begin to welcome neoconservatives as allies and allow them to displace older conservatives, but the older conservatives themselves (as well as the much vaunted “New Right”) began to adopt the essentially liberal rhetoric and values to which neoconservatives appealed."

and this bit:

"Have the paleos indeed failed, and if they have, is the neocon stab-in-the-back theory the only reason? Are there perhaps either large historical trends or even mere personality differences among the paleos that made their own crack-up eventually inevitable, and can such trends or conflicts be overcome? Or are the paleos really only dinosaurs, whining nostalgically for a world they have lost and unable or cantankerously unwilling to adapt to the Shining Imperial City on the Hill the neoconservatives claim to be constructing?"

[fishnfla]

23. I'll lament with ya' bluedawg....

They've only themselves to blame. When shills like Limbaugh et al became their standard bearer, the decline was inevitable. Politics as a whole broke down to name-calling, as you point out, and visceral fear mongering. Talking heads spewing talking points. I mean, sometimes I long to hear from Wm F Buckley again.

Not much room for reality based truth anywhere, anymore.

[bluedawg12]

24. They have been duped not twice but thrice

Conservative voters expected a con-man, and got a neo con.

And now, he has flip flopped and as of last nights speech has tried to assume the mantle of FDR and the echo's of WPA-style programs.

Come on guys- how awakward was it for us to hear him talk about race and poverty? How phoney baloney?

Now, the cons are sweating like the pig that knows it's dinner.

From right --> to far right extermist--> to the left???

We can make hay with this. If it were us Horse Faced faux blond Canned-elite -right wing Culture would be all over us and Fats Limpbag would be flatulating the air waves for weeks.

[opihimoimoi]

32. Fool me once shame on me, twice, shame on you,.. 3times??? I iz a glutton

for shit and will pay to eat it....

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. You know

some conservs have made the same exact obsrvation. I can only hope for an RNC breakup and nasty civil war.



:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: Took extra, anyone else want some?

[bluedawg12]

28. This may be our wegde issue for them!

They are folding like a cheap pair of pantyhose...or some mixed metaphore like that. :)

[TheStates]

31. Paleo-conservatives vs Neo-conservatives......

......And their imperial masters.

The paleoconservatives are becoming irrelevant. Its time to exploit that divide between the paleoconservatives and neoconservatives.....

The paleoconservatives, as wrong as they are, have been consistently stabbed in the back by the neoconservatives......Until there is no blood left to spill. Its time for the civil war in that party to begin......

[RONSTOO]

33. perhaps they have to be

outrageuosly masculine and testosterine afflicted because the Dem partys balls have shrunk to the size of chickpeas???

[mrcheerful]

34. Not really..........

the repukicans are very good at poker, they bluff their way into power by telling people exactly what they want to hear and focus on that. How many times has repukicans ever went in the direction they told america they were going in? Its all lies and bluff, with lots of fear thrown in to get reactions.