Bill Clinton sucks

[montana500]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050917/wl_uk_afp/usbritainblairbbc_050917223538

"
The former US president, who held his conference to coincide with the United Nations summit in New York, agreed that the BBC's coverage was lacking.

While the BBC's reports on the hurricane were factually accurate, its presentation was "stacked up" to criticize President George W Bush's handling of the disaster, Clinton said."

[Melodybe]

1. Yes he does and as soon as democrats can just fess up to it the better

off we'll all be.

Damn ya'll, Clinton is not playing the game and if he is he is not on our team. If he were making sure that our votes were going to count in 2008, then I could forgive him. But no, what does he do? He defends the most vile man alive.

WAKE UP!

[Dogmudgeon]

2. Once again, we've turned 180° to fire

There are so many Republican conservatives and religious fanatics to choose from, but we're still throwing tantrums over Big Bad Bill.

On our team? Fine. NOT on our team? Forget him. I'm not convinced Bill is The Enemy, but if he doesn't want to fight along side of me, he can sit the battle out.

Incidentally, Clinton wasn't reacting to the way Bush mishandled the Katrina crisis. He was reacting to the petty, gloating way many of the BBC newsreaders handled the news. Gloating over dead people isn't exactly a core belief of mine. Most of those people, when they were alive, also opposed Bush, and don't deserve to be used as "ammunition" in the mirror-image of Bush's sneering mockeries.

We can find fault with literally EVERY Democrat in elected office, and I've been seeing it since I was first able to vote, way back in 1976. That's really not the point. There's only one way to win a war, and that is to lock, load, and advance.

The truly great leaders end up following the people anyway. I'd prefer to have Bill with us, but if/when he isn't, someone else will take his place. The same history that will eventually bury Bush and his fellow-thinkers will leave the regressives among us behind.

I don't intend to trouble myself looking back and hope you won't, either.

--p!

[Syncronaut Seven]

8. It's not a matter of finding fault, It's about selling out.

And don't worry, they'll be plenty more dead people Bill. You and Chelsea will probably be safe, however about 5.5B of the rest of us are slated for the full New Orleans treatment.

What have they got on you Bill? They'll destroy your legacy regardless, Or was the price offered for your soul too high to refuse?

You want to be helpful Bill? Spill what you know about the Bush crime family, I bet you know quite a bit more than your telling.

Thanks for nothing Bill.

[papau]

25. Catch Clinton on today's Meet the Press and you will be back to

praising him

:toast:

:-)

[Syncronaut Seven]

38. Cable-less here

What did Bill have to say on MTP? Are transcripts online? I would So like to believe that my paranoia is unfounded.

I can accept that I'm wrong any day of the week, but if we don't divert this flaming train wreck known as the Bush administration soon, it all becomes moot.

[Pepperbelly]

36. WTF are you talking about?

This is spitting fucking nonsense. Clinton bashing is at another site, bud.

[Syncronaut Seven]

37. Sorry man, something about chumming up to the beast

That just freaks me out, can you explain it? Carter doesn't want anything to do with these soul-less freaks, why does BC? Does he have a plan?

Something stinks bub, I have tried to make sense of this newfound spirit of co-operation between Bill and the Bushes. So far the only scenario that makes sense is that the whole Monica gate thing was just a circus to keep us distracted from , oh let me see,

Poverty
Peak Oil
Global warming
Economic disparity
Overpopulation
Manipulation of the markets
The true cost of the WOD
The shocking power of the prison industrial complex

The only other possibility that I can realistically entertain is that they have either threatened him or his family or (in the true spirit of J. Edgar) they have some real dirt on him. Poppy was head of the CIA you know, they do shit like that.

Am I way off base? Please, PLEASE, clue me in.

[Pepperbelly]

39. I think that might be paranoid ideation...

You are connecting A to B based on X.

Maybe BC sees something you don't. Perhaps he sees that the utter failure of Bush would be even more catastrophic for America. How much suffering would be justified in allowing Bush to utterly fail just for political reasons?

In Iraq, Bush screwed the pooch big time. Could it be that his utter failure there, a failure even deeper than that which he has thus far created, could be mortally catastrophic to our nation?

Is it possible to step away from political repercussions to stop our slide to oblivion?

[Syncronaut Seven]

40. paranoid ideation

Funny, That's the exact term my psyciatrist uses too. :-) Peace.

[Pepperbelly]

41. The question, I must truthfully admit ...

may not be whether you are paranoid but if you are paranoid enough. I know that Cameron wrote that but it is still one of the possibly valid outlooks.

[greyl]

3. that's irrelevant nt

:)

[SHRED]

4. Hey Blair!

There is a lot to hate about this Bu$h regime...quit yer whining ya big wuss.

[RoyGBiv]

5. You're misreading that ...

You're also apparently ignoring the fact the story is essentially about Rupert Murdoch's reaction to independent European news coverage. This is important for many reasons, not the least of which is that Murdoch has been in a running battle with European journalists who aren't as willing to forego their professional integrity to answer the call of financial gain. He's trying to invade every continent with his trash, and this story is really nothing more than a salvo in that war.

To Murdoch, journalism is a business and nothing more. Bad press about America is bad for his business, and he does everything he can to stop it.

That said, the "stacked up" quote has no context, and the sentence's construction is misleading at best. Is "stacked up" quoted because it's a form of expression or is it a direct quote. If the latter, why were only those words quoted with the rest filled in to let us know what Clinton supposedly really meant?

The actual Clinton quote, not included in the OP, refers to the news coverage overall and makes no reference to Bush at all. It does point out that the European response focused on the lack of a federal response and failed to focus any at all on what was taking place locally. That is, there were many local events taking place that were miraculous that the European press didn't mention.

"There is nothing factually inaccurate. But ... it was designed to be almost exclusively a hit on the federal response, without showing what anybody at any level was doing that was also miraculous, going on simultaneously in a positive way," Clinton said."

I would like to know what the ellipsis substitutes, but I'll live.

At any rate, I must say I am growing increasingly fed up with the pack hound mentality that seeks to find every perceived indiscretion of every Democrat in existence who doesn't blithely follow the political dogma that some claim they should follow. Clinton may not be the ideal Democrat to a lot of people, but here's the thing. On his worst day he adheres to core Democratic principles better than Shrub on his best day and better than damn near any Republican in any office in this country. Given that, why there are so many Clinton bashing threads in a *Democratic* forum is beyond me.

[OneTwentyoNine]

6. Clinton is a pawn,but the bigger story is Murdoch and Blair....

"Tony Blair -- perhaps I shouldn't repeat this conversation -- told me yesterday that he was in Delhi last week. And he turned on the BBC world service to see what was happening in New Orleans," Murdoch was quoted as saying in a transcript posted on the Clinton Global Initiative website. And he said it was just full of hate of America and gloating about our troubles. And that was his government. Well, his government-owned thing," he said of the publicly owned broadcaster.Murdoch went on to say that anti-American bias was prevalent throughout Europe."

I'd bet that Murdoch was PLEASED every time the British press pounded Clinton over the ML scandal--right proper reporting then,right Mr. Murdoch? Murdoch HELPED the Swift Boat idiots TRASH a decorated VN veteran,where was your concern about improper reporting then Murdoch?

This story doesn't sound like an "outrage" piece over shoddy reporting,it sound like Blair and Murdoch want suppression of the press when it makes Bush look bad.

And..Clintons remark that the press were "stacked" against Bush. My GOD Clinton,have you forgotten what they did to you for EIGHT FUCKING YEARS? Clinton wants SO badly for his wife to have a shot at the Presidency that he'll say or do nearly anything at this point.

[Gyre]

33. Bill Clinton is Blair's bitch for some reason.

Qui bono? Blair. The same criminal that had Kelly "suicided" right before he was going to give BBC the goods on the false claims Blair's govt was using to support the chimp's "war". After that Blair assaulted BBC with gusto saying "where's your proof"? and made them apologize to him and the British people. It was a very big deal for centrist media outlets who dared to challenge their governments. BBC has not been the same since.

Clinton is a "tool" with the morals of an alley cat. DUers who still love him might think about this before they volunteer to have Bill's next love-child.

Gyre

[orpupilofnature57]

7. Bill Clinton is ,was, and will be One most Brilliant men that has ever led

this country, Pragmatic thinking made our country a better place to live in the 90's. What will pointing out the obvious do?The MSM are the assholes that enabled Shrub and dogged Kerry, so once again Bill's a scumbag, sorry not in my book.Bill Clinton is not tim( Evil Elf ) russert, small type intended.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. wow.

So that failed healthcare initiative was 'brilliant'? His presiding over the dot com boom was fortune not brilliance. He also presided over the political demise of the Democratic Party as the majority party at the national level. Was that brilliant? Was his having an affair with an intern while under multiple concurrent investigations by the rightwing attack machine brilliant? I'm still looking for the brilliant part. Iluminate me.

I guess some of us expect that the leaders of the Democratic Party ought to LEAD THE OPPOSITION, rather than mouth right wing talking points. Clinton, of all people, victim of one of the nastiest political vendettas in American history, ought to know where he stands.

[orpupilofnature57]

15. First,under the pressure of an all republican house, his Fight for his..

Health care Program was equivalent to Ben Franklin's taking on Parliament .Trying to bring Democracy to China was brilliant, the democratic party was absent during all of this, remember Newt ruled the day?Having a heart attack during the 2004 elections and having an affair personal are issues, or should he have to explain to you and tim about that.Like I said BRILLIANT.

[moodforaday]

19. Good list. I would add

Clinton's signing of the Communications Decency Act, clearly unconstitutional and thrown out as such by the Supreme Court a year or so later. Another act of brilliance that was.

[Guava Jelly]

9. Clinton is a politician

they are 98% full of crap.
but to paraphrase michael moore
Bill clinton is the best republican president we ever had.

I saw the man speak live in kansas with bob Dole.
the man is a brilliant orator and a smart man when he speaks you actually believe he cares..I honestly think he does..

[PATRICK]

10. Clinton talks too much

and is bound with his conciliatory pro-American positiveness to put his foot in their territory. It is a weird morality play when the ex-President whose legacy has been gutted and destroyed along with the myths he still preaches lets Poppy hide behind him where Bush is hiding behind Poppy and Babs and not cynical hint of derision ever creeps into his words.

No, instead we get the Third Way Gospel thrown into this comedy mined desperately for help by the devils of our times.

Even as they go about the business of scapegoating and using the Clintons to mine the world.

One does not expect nor should one find such invincible innocence and ignorance bloviating past its term of office.

I'm Bill Clinton and I'm a GOP abuse victim. Start the speech that way every time and I'll listen.

[orpupilofnature57]

17. You never mentioned MSM, where are they in your comedy?

[Dogmudgeon]

11. Perhaps I was wrong

Perhaps it really is more important to have a good catharsis of anger than it is to advance progress in the world.

First, purge the "capitalist roaders" and "lickspittle lackeys"; then, progress. Yep; history is sure on the side of that idea. </sarcasm>.

Well, I suppose it doesn't matter much. Within a century, the world will be half desert, half tundra, and the population will consist of maybe 10 million people who won't even be able to read the decaying books by Hitchens and Cockburn and company that bitch themselves blue in the face about the evil Bill Clinton.

--p!

[TreasonousBastard]

12. It's easy to throw potshots, isnt it...

when our "heroes" don't live up to what we think are our own ideals.

And it's a real cheap shot when two sentences are pulled from an article to make him look bad. Isn't that what we complain about the other side doing? Clinton picks his words extremely carefully, and that comment wasn't meant for us, but was in the context of deals he was making at his conference.

HIS conference. The Clinton Global Initiative was mentioned in that article. Who else bothered to find out more about that? More grist for the mill if you hate the corporatists, but Clinton seems to be aiming at being one of our greatest ex-Presidents with this initiative, and if making deals with the devil are necessary, he seems to think they are OK.

Let's see how it works out before throwing stones.

[Frustratedlady]

14. I agree.

I believe Clinton is in a new phase of his life where conflict cannot enter. Heart patients often come away from their episode with a much different approach to people and life in general. They can't afford battles, so they mellow out. Been there, done that.

I think Bill is trying to bring people together. You have to to accomplish anything. Otherwise, the opposing side will make progress impossible.

Look at what he's doing with this conference, AIDS, fundraising, etc. He's making progress while we're sitting back, bitching. He's a leader and we've become too accustomed to battling, because that's where Bush has brought us. We are letting Rove and Bush cause us to use our time with armchair quarterbacking, to give us something to do so we don't get in their way. Bitchers are onlookers, not doers. Been there, done that, too!

[orpupilofnature57]

16. He's a J.F.K. American willing to sacrifice, people are missing the bigger

picture!How do you take the power from Kkkarl, do what Bill is doing, unlike Shrub ,he Earned it with brains and imagination.

[Autonomy]

18. Clinton is still doing a superb job. I'd vote for him again. nt

[mtnsnake]

20. I suppose he sucks because he cares so much for poor people or how

he's publicly suggesting that this fucked up country should stop giving people like him obscene tax cuts. Or maybe he sucks because he's so concerned with global warming or he sucks because he's simply a good person, period.

What a rotten thing to say about a man like Bill Clinton who's a Democratic icon and hero.

Maybe you didn't listen to him speak on Meet the Press this morning. Maybe you didn't listen to one of the most intelligent past presidents ever give Tim Russert his fine suggestions on helping humanity and setting things straight with the out-of-control deficit. Words flow from this man. They don't come out in half-ass stuttering fragments of sentences like they do with our present bumbling moron currently in the white house.

It's hard to believe what a pounding Clinton takes just because he's only 98% perfect. Pathetic.

[liberalitch]

21. Best president of my life time.....

I have always been "political" but I know many people who weren't "turned on" until he came along.

[montana500]

24. explanation

Don't get me wrong - I am glad Clinton was president. And I am glad I voted for him, and yes he did alot of great things for this country, especially on the side of conservation.But what my post was, was an honest reaction to some of the things he has been saying lately. The Dems have a hard enough time right now without Bill Clinton repeating Karl Rove talking points.

[mtnsnake]

28. If that's the way you feel, then why such a blanket statement like

"Bill Clinton Sucks"?

Sure, I'm having the same reaction as you and others when it comes to SOME of the things he's said lately and SOME of the people he's hanging with, like Poppy Asshole, but I also balance it with knowing that Bill Clinton is overall one of the FEW people who are sincerely trying to help OUR cause, the Democratic cause, by trying to work together with people of varying philosophical differences around the world to solve problems that are common to most of us. Whenever I get disgusted at seeing him with Poppy, I try to temper my feelings by thinking about all the other reasons why I like him so much. Nobody can be perfect in each and every way we think they should be.

If only everyone cared as much about humanity and the environment in general as Clinton does.

One other thing. How many rich people of his stature do you know who've recently gotten up and advocated tax cuts for themselves like he has done so often? This man is selfless.

[Totally Committed]

22. Mass started this thread yesterday, and it got little attention, but...

the article linked in the OP and the discussion dove-tail with this conversation well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2096524

TC

[Peace Patriot]

23. Far be it from me to defend Clinton (I voted for the man, but I WAS GIVEN

NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER!!!!!), but I'd like to know a lot more about what he ACTUALLY said, and about this Global Initiative on peace and development that he held, before I'd jump to the conclusion that "Clinton sucks."

That a DLC Democrat and NAFTA-signer "sucks" is a given--in general terms. What he might be up to, right now, in these most dire circumstances of an extremely weak president with Darth Vader lurking in his bunker, and god knows what-all going on behind the scenes with Treasongate (a frightened, divided regime, some of whom want to nuke Iran and Syria and invade Venezuela), is quite another matter, in my view.

The statements by Clinton in this article are paraphrased, and nearly incoherent (he seems to be saying that there was something miraculous about the federal response, which makes no sense at all). And, if there is one thing that Clinton is not, it is incoherent. So I'm withholding any judgment on this.

(Yes, I have a little theory about it all--why Bush Jr. seemed to be without a spin machine in the first part of Katrina, why the whole regime seemed to be AWOL during Katrina, leaving idiot son Bush out there on his own, and why Daddy Bush and Clinton appeared with him--standing behind him, in that strange photo op--early on. What was happening, I think, was negotiations for Treasongate pardons--very ugly negotiations in which ratting on Bush Jr. was one of the chips, and the looting of Gulf coast disaster funds was one of the payoffs. Cheney and Rove, mostly. We're reduced to reading entrails, trying to figure out what's going on with these people--but I think this is a pretty good guess.)

[Peace Patriot]

26. P.S. The answer to the stink in Washington DC is...

Paper ballots hand-counted at the precinct level (--Canada does it in one day, although speed should not even be a consideration, just accuracy and verifiability)

or, at the least...

Paper ballot (not "paper trail") backup of all electronic voting, a 10% automatic recount, very strict security, and NO SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code! (...Lord God preserve us!).

Just sayin.

[QC]

27. How predictable,

and how very boring.

You know, if we spent as much time attacking Republicans around here as we piss away attacking Democrats, we might make some changes in this country.

[montana500]

46. and how...

...can we effectively confront Republicans when our last dem president is kissing their ass?

2+2 does not = 10.

[Pepperbelly]

29. what the fuck ever.

Jebus I am TIRED of the fucking Clinton haters. Compare your own ass with him and what he has done and tell me he sucks. Have you ever helped a thousanth of a percent of the good he has done for people just since he left office?

[montana500]

44. I don't hate Clinton, I like him

But he is not making things easier for the Dems lately. The truth is uncomfortable.

[Cosmocat]

30. Give me a freakin break ...

I have caught as much of the big dog as I could the last few days ...

GOD, to have the man in charge again !!! SO darn smart, SO darn politicaly savvy ... REAL concern for PEOPLE ...

[mtnsnake]

31. and isn't it just a pleasure listening to someone speak so eloquently

like Clinton does, as opposed to listening to a bumbling fucking moron like Bush stutter out his juvenile-sounding incomprehensible phrases?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

35. like music to my ears.

Sentences, fully thought out ideas, real answers and not one childish cliche.
the difference is so striking, that it is scary.

It again makes me think that Bush is ailing.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

32. you got that right.

He would be a great president in times of trouble. He would be there, no SS, no bodyguards, and he would be in the face of local burrocrats who were NOT doing the job.

what he said about Chertoff was right on point. His comparison with FEMA then and now is perfect.

Remember, there is an unwritten rule that past presidents do NOT criticize current ones. EVER.
Don't blame big dog for playing with honor. Your wishes and expectations are interfering with reality if you blame him for simply holding his tongue.
Actually, he is offering a great amount of insight, advice and experience.
Just the right touch, with a wonderful opportunity to compare a shrub and a talented, caring leader.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[montana500]

45. sometimes the truth is uncofmortable.

That's all there is too it. It hurts the dems mroe than helps when our last president is opining Rove talking points. Jimmy Carter has more balls.

[magnolia]

42. Here's my post...

...from the "we love you Bill...." thread:

Some times he pisses me off. Sometimes I don't agree with him at all. But I always respect and admire his good heart, incredible intelligence and leadership. No one has more reason to be angry, hate and seek revenge. But he doesn't and that shows true character. He's a modern day Will Rogers who has never met a man he didn't like. If he were capable of rabid hatred, if he spewed vemon...he wouldn't be who he is. It's too bad that so many Democrats follow the black and white, "you're either for us or against us" way of thinking. So anyone who doesn't stick to the left wing talking points or isn't attacking the other side at every turn, must be one of THEM! One of the reasons I'm a democrat is because we are diversified, open minded and free thinkers. I respect a person who thinks for themselves even if I don't agree with them.

George Bush's approval rating is at an all-time low...and he is sinking fast. This didn't happen because our democratic leaders were constantly calling him an incompetent idiot. This happened because Bush PROVED HIMSELF to be an incompetent idiot. Our dem leaders need to get their act together on issues and policies and prepare for the big 2006 take over. Let Bush bury himself and take his cronies with him. Our people don't need to get their hands dirty. Certainly someone with Bill Clinton's class and statemanship doesn't need to get down into the filthy mess that is the Bush Administration.

"The love of one's country is a splendid thing. But why should love stop at the border?" - Pablo Casals

[Q]

43. Yes...we certainly don't want Democrats 'getting their hands dirty'...

...upholding the law, equal justice and protecting and defending the Constitution.

[pinto]

47. Some more info from the article cited.

The Yahoo headline, right now,

Blair calls BBC coverage 'full of hate of America': Murdoch

nothing about Clinton, right?

Farther down, the Clinton quote -

While the BBC's reports on the hurricane were factually accurate, its presentation was "stacked up" to criticize President George W Bush's handling of the disaster, Clinton said.

"There is nothing factually inaccurate. But ... it was designed to be almost exclusively a hit on the federal response, without showing what anybody at any level was doing that was also miraculous, going on simultaneously in a positive way," Clinton said.

seems to be a statement of support for the local response as well as a criticism of the BBC coverage.

The article seems more about the BBC than Mr. Clinton.

Your original post left that out. Just my 2 cents.

[MojoXN]

48. You must be confused...

It was Monica who sucked.
:evilgrin:

MojoXN

[DuaneBidoux]

49. Democrats do turn on their own easier than Rethugs.

Of course this is a trait that is characteristic of critically thinking and intelligent people: we apply to our own leaders the same standards that we apply to the opposition.

It is sad that it costs us so many elections but it is a noble character trait.

[DuaneBidoux]

50. Give me the good ol' Clinton days: Monica went down stocks went up.

Was he perfect? Hell no. But I consider him to be in the top of the crop of American history, along with the other (virtually 100%) democratic Presidents.