Can ANYONE please name one single major Dem politician who is far left??

[Douglas Carpenter]

And MOST IMPORTANTLY state specifically what specific policies that politician is advocating that makes them far left or ultra-liberal and thus out of the mainstream.

We have all heard that GOP talking point. We have all heard some Dems repeat that talking point as if it were true, even here on DU.

If you think Howard Dean is far left. Please state what specific policies he advocates that are in any way, shape or form far left or ultra-liberal.

I would grant that Dennis Kucinich can be fairly called left by U.S. standards. If you consider him far left. Please state what policies he advocates that are far left or out of the mainstream.

We have all heard it said that Dukakis and Mondale lost because they were ultra liberal or even far left. Could anyone state clearly what specific policies Mondale or Dukakis advocated that were in any way, shape or form ultra liberal or far left or out of the mainstream??

[XanaDUer]

1. Do you consider Bernie Sanders far left?

His site is in your sig.

[Mass]

3. He is not democrat

[Totally Committed]

15. I think that's where Douglas is going with this....

I could be wrong, though. ;)

TC

[Douglas Carpenter]

9. certainly not and neither do the people of staunchly conservative rural

counties of his district who vote for him by landslide proportions.

And as someone else pointed out, he is not a Democrat.

[XanaDUer]

13. OOps. Me bad.

Not enuf coffee yet.

[radwriter0555]

89. Perhaps Barbara Boxer escaped your sights? She's the most radical liberal

elected official in office, in the USA today.

She's brilliant.

[FloridaPat]

2. I always thought communism was far left and I don't know any US

politician currently in office that far left.

[joanne]

8. Only a handful of Liberal Democrats

Kennedy, Feingold, Schumer, Boxer, Waters, Conyers, Waxman, Kucinich

Cant name one I would call "far left".

[BL611]

65. If you include the house

There are many (probably near or in three digits) who would meet your apparent standard oh "liberal democrat". In the Sente if Schumer makes the grade you could include at least Durbin,Obama,Dayton,Levin,and Leahy just off the top of my head....

[KoKo]

4. Jim McDermott for one...n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

12. respectfully, please state what policies Mr. McDermott supports that would

designate him as far left. I agree that he is quite liberal and perhaps even left. Far left?

[KoKo]

25. Here is link to his website and what he supports from Project Vote Smart.

A Google Search will show that he's considered Far Left by those writing articles about him, and he's also considered far fringe left by the Right Wing Pundits and Bloggers.

If anyone wants to take the time to go through McDermott's answers to Project Vote Smart's issues questionaire you will see that he's very liberal on the Left.

http://www.house.gov/mcdermott/

and here's what he supports from Project Vote Smart...

http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=H4211103


SOME GOOGLE LINKS:

Sound Politics: Sen. Ed Murray?
Other than that, we're certain to have a super far-left Democrat. ... have to
fail before Jim McDermott figures out that Socialism does not work. ...
www.soundpolitics.com/archives/005030.html - 14k - Cached - Similar pages

Sound Politics: Connelly on Congress's Ethics
... when he worries about his beloved Democratic Party going too far left. ...
Jim McDermott suggests that Americans and the people who lead them are Nazis. ...
www.soundpolitics.com/archives/003719.html - 15k - Cached - Similar pages

OpinionJournal - Best of the Web Today
But the far left today, though it styles itself "progressive," has no ...
Jim McDermott of Washington state actually seems to approve of the Iraqi dictator. ...
www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110002362 - 67k - Cached - Similar pages

Winds of Change.NET: Reminder: Left-Liberals, Post 9/11
Jim McDermott on there. Then there's Patty Murray repeating (ad nauseum in what
... Aside from Michael Moore, who is far-left and doesn't speak for liberals ...
www.windsofchange.net/archives/007059.php - 107k - Cached - Similar pages

May 2004, Part 1 - Jim Miller on Politics
But sometimes, in their thorough way, the Germans may go too far. ... for life"
Jim McDermott omitted "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance, ...
www.seanet.com/~jimxc/Politics/May2004_1.html - 59k - Cached - Similar pages

[Douglas Carpenter]

27. thank you for the links, I agree that he is quite liberal (makes me feel

good about the $100 I sent him last year)

[KoKo]

28. I'm very fond of Jim McDermott...Wish we had more like him. n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. If you take the "far" off, the list doesn't get much longer. nt

[Mairead]

17. And isn't THAT an indictment! (nt)

[pretzel4gore]

32. damn right...70 percent of the people are left

regardless of how the electorate votes, the 'left/right' demographic is heavily stacked against the right if only because workers outnumber bosses..in america moreso as popular culture familiarises the poor young disabled and poorly paid with what's available to those with cash.....there have been essays written about 'a natural' or real division of where a populations interests lie, and the point is that especially when times are bad economically, the population is predominantly left, by reason of common sense.....yet in this society it's as if left or liberal are somehow unusual or on the margins! Ever since the french revolution, when, overnight, an entire country revealed that it was leftwing from top to bottom (most of the left's leaders are upper class twits) the lying liars of bushevikism have been scratching their asses trying to figger out how to overcome this drawback (the people are liberal/left) and they finally decided just to disenfranchise the left by ignoring it totally via mediawhoring...
now they've seem to have dug themselves a grave.....lol

[Mass]

6. far left compared to whom?

Compared to Bush, they are all far left. Compared to the European left, none is, not even DK who would appear center left there.

[1932]

7. Several CBC Democrats are very liberal.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

10. Far Left?

I don't think anyone running on a far left platform (i.e. Communism) has ever been elected to national office.

Now, if there is another definition of far left than Communism, then my premise is wrong.

[emanymton]

11. Given How Far To The Right The GOP Is....

all reasonable humans are left. Thank goodness.



Bush Lied. People Died. Media Cheered.

[indepat]

14. Who of the far left are as extreme as W's supporters are to the right?

[Mairead]

16. You're not going to get anywhere with your question

The people who whine "far left", "fringe left", "out of the mainstream" are either wilfully ignorant, or barely-disguised rightwingers.

It's not in their interest to be put on the spot and made to defend their whining, so they simply ignore such requests. They didn't try to support their claims in the latest DK thread, and they won't do it here. They can't undermine specific issue threads, such as healthcare, but you can be sure they'll hurry to insert their poisonous, whining sneers into every opinion thread.

And I'd bet $100 cash money that if those of us genuinely in favor of social and economic democracy were to make a list of who those people are, our lists would be nearly identical. They're not subtle in their empty attacks and nay-saying.

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. you are probably right..Personally I think the whole term is a GOP hoax.

If a few Dems agree with it. They should state what specific policies a given Dem politcian is supporting that a reasonable person would have to call far left and out of the mainstream. I have asked this question before on other threads. So far it seems to be just a feeling not rooted at all in reality. Unfortunatley, this hoax is spread by some Dems throughout the mainstream media causing great harm to our party.

[bluedawg12]

18. No, but I can name manyRepugs far right enough to nudge fascism and racism

Google the far right dim bulbs.

[leesa]

20. I am confused by 'far left', whatever that means, and 'out of MSM'.

Everything progressive in the least is out of MSM, even true centrist points are not in the MSM, so I'm not sure what you are asking for?

[Dob Bole]

21. Several House members....

Cynthia McKinney from Georgia, Raul Grivalja from...New Mexico, I think? Dennis Kucinich of Ohio.

Some of the most liberal Senate members would be Barbara Boxer (CA), Robert Byrd (WV) and Lincoln Chafee, who voted against the Iraq war and "tax cuts," but is a Republican.

[Douglas Carpenter]

29. I agree that there are some left house members .. far left???

Do they hold left positions completely out of the mainstream? I don't know of any. If someone can state what specific policies these alleged far leftist hold that a reasonable person could deem far left, I would like to know what they are.

I cannot think of anyone in the Senate who could reasonably be called left --(perhaps Sen. Feingold)- although there certainly are a few liberals. I do not think
Robert Byrd and Lincoln Chafee are not among them. Although, Sen. Byrd is far to the left of where he started in his early days.

[rocktivity]

22. EVERYONE looks far left when you're far right.

The only difference I can see between moderate and far leftists is that far leftists are successful in embarassing the far right!

:evilgrin:
rocknation

[tx_dem41]

23. Since a small portion of people consider themselves FAR left...

and they usually don't live in the same area...it only makes sense that there are few far left politicians.

[welshTerrier2]

24. none ... done ...

is it far left to point out that Big Oil is driving our foreign policy? is it far left to point out that global warming could destroy all life on the earth sometime soon? is it far left to point out that the US is the number one arm's merchant in the world? is it far left to point out the the US is destablizing the entire globe? it it far left to point out that powerful corporations are controlling all government policies against the best interests of the American people?

i don't think it is at all ... i think conservatives, moderates, liberals and the far left should all be pushing to restore our democracy ... i think all political persuasions should look at the role the US is playing in the world and demand change ... i doubt there would be many conservatives, if presented with the facts (and that's been the problem), who would NOT be concerned about global warming or the government's catering to "special interests" or any of the other issues listed above ...

does anyone really believe that their conservative neighbors are glad Big Oil is able to buy politicians? it's not their values that are the problem; it's a lack of knowledge ...

i don't see any far left Democratic "leaders" ... i'm not sure i even see any on the left ... you want a definition? take my views ... i'm for capping wealth in this country because i believe that too much wealth inevitably leads to an inappropriate degree of influence or control over the government ... it leads to a government that seeks to benefit a few at the expense of the many ... and i would nationalize any industry, specifically Big Oil and Big Pharma, that provides critically needed products or services when those industries refuse to put American citizens ahead of their stockholders ...

to me, these are "far left" views ... when i look at the Democratic Party, i find no candidates who represent these views ....

[Lorien]

52. I agree completely

I no longer feel like I have any representation in Washington whatsoever.Every politician has shifted rightwards, and continues to do so.

Great post WelshTerrier2!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. Rather than responding we need to start calling them the reckless right

There's plenty of policy to nail them with

[OneBlueSky]

30. it's not a matter of Left or Right . . . it's who will tell the Truth . .

the whole Left/Right dichotomy is something created by those in power to keep us from addressing the REAL dichotomy -- the ruling elite who control all of the money and resources versus the rest of us . . .

what we need are people who are willing to stand up and tell the Truth . . . and, generally speaking, we're not going to find them among elected politicians . . . they have too much invested in the system of corporate governance and therefore too much to lose . . .

How about a consortium for Truth?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4809833

Who are the Truth Tellers?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4808950&mesg_id=4808950

[mattclearing]

31. Ultra-liberal and out of the mainstream are relative terms.

They don't actually mean anything, which I guess is the point of your post.

I think Dukakis and Mondale were hurt by the perception of being establishment Democrats who were vulnerable to charges of tax and spend, another meaningless term (Last I checked, every single president in history has both taxed and spent).

The important thing is that we continue challenging Republicans on their rhetoric. If we keep exposing their bullshit language, like "flip-flopping," "tax and spend," "ultra-liberal," that will give them less ability to define the debate.

These catch phrases are mostly meaningless, and often apply to Republicans every bit as much in their own way, some even moreso than the Democrats (Tax and spend? They are just spend and spend).

That's why I like Dean...he sees the way Republicans use language to their advantage, understands it, and changes strategy accordingly. I get the impression that a lot of Dems are still ignorant about the extent to which Republicans use language and marketing to their advantage.

[Douglas Carpenter]

33. agree with you 100% - What is really awful is how is how some

inside the belt way Dems will mumble these GOP talking points to and on the mainstream media. I first heard that Gov. Dean was an unelectable-- out of the mainstream leftist on the BBC sitting in my hotel room while traveling abroad. Their source for this nonsense was inside the beltway Dems.

We should expect the GOP to use this talking point. But could you imagine major inside the beltway Republicans saying that about Bush and the Republican Party?

[McCamy Taylor]

34. Far left = socialist , so no.

[Lochloosa]

35. They all have died in plane crashes...

[Douglas Carpenter]

36. and even those. Did they hold ANY position that were out or the

mainstream and divorced from the reality of ordinary Americans? Quite the contrary, I think?

[MsAnthropy]

75. I was going to say the same thing

WAY too many "coincidences"

[JNelson6563]

37. Conyers and Kucinich are pretty left

but probably not good enough for a purist.

[Douglas Carpenter]

38. probably not and I don't know of any policy positions held by Mr. Conyers

or Mr. Kucinich that put them out of what the mainstream opinion a very large portions of Nascar dads and soccer moms would believe.

[KoKo]

39. I live in Nascar land and believe me neither Conyers nor Kucinich

would be considered "mainstream" here. There are more Football Moms than Soccer Moms and Religious Fanatics rule. But,Kucinich and Conyers are Left Wing Whako's to the people I know. Actually any Democrat is a Left Wing Whako to them.
:shrug:

[Douglas Carpenter]

40. they may be perceived that way by many

but, I would suggest that this is based on the fear of a straw man. Does Kucinich or Conyers actually promote positions and advocate policies that are in anyway shape or form out of the mainstream? Or have they just been labeled that?

Some of the greatest harm in this "propagada war" comes from certain fellow Dems who get on the mainstream and agree with this GOP hoax.

The reason Sanders is able to win by landslide proportions even staunch conservative rural counties running openly as a socialist is that he is able to get past the whole hoax and get across to people what he actually is saying.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

43. Exactly!

Most people are further to the left than they think. Universal health-care is something a large majority of Americans want, but the right wing pundits say this is a far left position. The key is being able to get people to see past the BS and spin put forth by the Republicans.

[KoKo]

45. Both Kucinich and Conyers get their message across to their own voters

though...in their states like Bernie Sanders does in Vermont. Most Americans don't know who any of the three of them are. Only progressives in my Nascar state know who Kucinich is because he actually won a county in NC and was active here in campaigning. I was a Kucinich supporter who worked for Kerry. Gave money to both...but walked the streets and put signs out for Kerry once he was the nominee.

Still, no one I know here knows who Kucinich was except our little band of Green Dogs and Progressive Dems... :shrug:

The Repugs here think all Dems are Wacko. So much so that we had a hard time getting some Registered Dems to put signs for Kerry in their yard. They didn't want to lose clients who didn't know they were Democrats.

I feel sad for the two we talked into putting those Kerry signs out. Because they probably suffered for it. :-(

What I'm saying is that the Limbaugh's and Fox News have made most ordinary Nascar Repugs think of all Democrats as Wacko...they don't seen any deference between DLC/New Democrat/Progressive Dem. We are all lumped together as something to be opposed.

That's just the way it is.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

41. No far left

I would say there are several solidly left Democratic leaders, though and that would include: Boxer, Kennedy, Kerry, Conyers, McKinney, Feingold, McDermott, etc.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

42. Dupe. (nt)

[renie408]

44. Bingo! You are on the right track...

I live in SC. I have many Republican friends. They are very confused by me. I have two kids, I own a farm and stay home with the kids, my husband is a truck driving construction worker, I bake cookies every year for the PTA, we have been married FOREVER and are high school sweethearts, both kids are A students in the Gifted and Talented Program, neither of us smoke or drink and we have never done any drugs and don't condone the use of any of the above for our children, we are some of the strictest parents we know and our kids are nearly obsessively monitored (I think we are probably screwing them up, but we are paranoid)...and we are atheist Democrats. I sometimes get the feeling that our GOP friends are waiting for us to start slaughtering the chickens and paint signs on the house with their blood. Like our mild mannered appearance is merely a veneer.

Many Republicans are scared of liberals because the GOP has spent years convincing them that 'liberal' is synonomous with sexual promiscuity, depravity and...I dunno, BAD THINGS.
So they point at a politician and scream "LIBERAL!!" "LEFTIST!!" like it is something scary.

[Zhade]

46. Great post.

I always look for an answer to that question, rarely get one.

Thanks for this thread!

[seabeyond]

47. you would have to have a community with majority in far left to

elect someone in far left. since the far left is a minority i would assume we wouldnt have any democrat as far left

[TankLV]

48. Nope.

All of our dems are at most left of center with only a few more liberal than that.

There is NO ONE who is as extreme left as the right wing assholes are extremem right.

NONE.

[Douglas Carpenter]

49. I couldn't agree more

[ElsewheresDaughter]

50. Sanders, kucinich, boxer, durbin,

[Douglas Carpenter]

55. do Sanders(who is not a Dem), Kucinich, Boxer or Durbin or any other

Dem politician of any significance whatsoever support ANY policies that are in any way shape or form out of the mainstream?

Both Sanders and Kucinich support single payer universal health care and oppose trade agreements that weaken the rights of working people.
It's hard to get more mainstream than that.

[Marleyb]

56. Kucinich is not 'far left', he speaks for the majority

When he ran for president he was labeled unelectable(by whom I wonder??) and yet his platform was the only one supported by the majority in this country...

yes, the clear majority want universal health care and jobs to stay in this country.

but also, the majority are against the patriot act-he is the only one that read it and lead the effort against it.

52% of the American people want out of Iraq NOW- he is the only one that had a plan to get out. Even Howard Dean says that is up to Bush to decide. We are supposed to wait for the idiot dictator who started a war of agression to make his buddies rich to decide when to go?? Everyday Bush's cronies make more money in Iraq, I don't think he's planning on leaving any time soon. Kerry wanted to add 40,000 troops. Hillary now wants to add 80,000 troops. When will these democratic 'leaders' speak for the majority?

Dennis wants to end the drug war. I bet if we had a poll, the majority would be for that as well.

The only issue the fundies get excited about is abortion, and Dennis is the one that could reach across party lines to help them understand the meaning of democracy and free will. See, Dennis is against abortions himself, but he is pro-choice. Someone needs to explain to these people that if you are against abortions-you don't have one...simple! You do not have the right to make that choice for other people.

[Mass]

74. I would not consider Boxer and Durbin as far left.

They are certainly part of the liberal wing of the Senate, but I dont think anybody in the Senate can be considered far left.

[Lorien]

51. Nope. Compared to the Democrats I observed in the '70s

most Dems today seem like Reagan dems-some even seem like Reagan republicans. Most are centrist, center right or center left. I wouldn't have called any of them "liberals" if they had been in office 30 years ago. The entire field has shifted to the far right.

[mestup]

53. I would so much like to like John Edwards...

...I saw him on a talking head program shortly after Katrina. He was advocating an FDR New Deal for the devastated areas. But I was disappointed in the way he overlooked an opportunity to Bush-bash over suspension of the Davis-Bacon Act, Crony Contracts, etc. We don't need a program to create jobs in the Gulf Coast. Katrina already did that. Here was a golden opportunity to call out Repub exploitation of labor.

He just seemed so waterbed-salesman to me. No different than watching "MD" Frist climbing over Katrina's corpses to launch his campaign.

There is no left, left.

[tkmorris]

54. I disagree with your Edwards assessment

You say that he "overlooked an opportunity to Bush-bash" and you apparently feel that's a character flaw. I humbly disagree.

This is just who Edwards is. He is a nice guy who will when called upon tell you exactly what he thinks is wrong with Bush and friends but he won't go out of his way to trash anyone. If he had he might be president right now, but I don't think he regrets it. He offers solutions, hope, ideas, and a positive tone. He believes that is the way to inspire people, and I happen to agree with him. I personally can't resist the urge to bash Bush, I despise the man, but that doesn't make Edwards a bad guy.

[mestup]

57. Sorry, didn't mean to suggest it was a character flaw.

I'm sure Edwards IS a nice guy. But when you offer solutions without identifying the problems, how can voters be sure you won't repeat the same? It comes off sounding like just more campaigning.

Someone posted John Kerry's speech at Brown University here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4819246

I'm sure Kerry's a nice guy, too. But it didn't stop him from identifying the current problems as he sees them.

[genius]

58. I consider him more centrist but he's to the left of the DLCers

Kucinich is standing up for workers's rights (who wants those?), the environment (who wants to breath or to live?) and for peace (who wants that?). The fact that some see him as left is a sign of how completely out of touch those people are.

[Douglas Carpenter]

59. certainly in terms of the positions held by either Dennis Kucinich or

Bernie Sanders--they are very much in the mainstream. I personally wouldn't argue if someone wanted to call either of them left. But when the media, the GOP and certain anti-Democratic Party propagandist like Al From paint progressives as "far left" or "out of the mainstream" that's just plane nutty.

[never cry wolf]

60. I'll bet if you asked the mirror image question in freeperville

they would have a similar reaction that there are no far right major repube pols. Whereas we see 95% of the pukes as non moderate right and maybe 25% far right I also be they feel the same about us. (um, maybe not, they are wingnuts so anyone to the left of frist as a lefty, but...)

The fact is that if anyone on either side is viewed as too extreme they won't convince a majority of their constituents to vote for them. This is a sad but inevitible effect of the 2 party system. Privately I'll bet there are many Dems that talk just like us here on DU.

[Douglas Carpenter]

61. that may be. however, there is more than enough data to show that the

positions advocated by say Dennis Kucinich for example are well with in the mainstream. This would not be the case with the Republican Party. When presented with there actual positions -- very few Americans agree.

Also, western democracy does have certain norms. By western democratic standards (those of every other Western democracy) Dennis Kucinich would be considered no more than center-left at most. While almost every Republican of the current Republican Party would be considered extremist. In fact almost everyone in almost every country on earth who follows American politics would concur.

The point I am trying to make of course, is that when certain "Democrats" label other Democrats as far left. They are doing so without any basis in reality whatsoever. Even Howard Dean was labeled by many inside the beltway Democrats as being "far left" in spite of the fact that he neither held nor advocated any positions whatsoever that ordinary Americans would describe as ultra-liberal or far left. But, he did however hold some positions that most Americans would consider conservative

[never cry wolf]

63. Agreed

In fact the center right party in Germany is far left of our Dems. The Americans are just too ignorant as to what a government shoud and could be and the benefits of such a system. It really is more efficient and cost effective in the long run but we are so short shighted and greedy (most of the voters anyway) that someone espousing those views wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting elected, unfortunately.

[Douglas Carpenter]

71. well, I lived in Germany many years ago, and I realized the same thing

As far as the American range of discussion, I think there has been a great deal of effort made to keep it very limited.

Dennis Kucinich actually represents a district with a lot of Republicans -- many of whom end up voting for him.

Bernie Sanders who is the only socialist in the U.S. Congress wins rural conservative Republican counties by landslide proportions.

In both these cases, they have been able to transcend the name-calling and propaganda and get it across to their districts what it is they are actually saying. It's amazing how many people who might consider themselves conservative are won over when that happens.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

62. Definitely bush, after that speech I mean.

:evilgrin:

[BSDRebel]

64. like how Far left?

Kim Jong Il far left?

Hugo Chavez far left?

Fidel Castro far left?

Stalinist, anarchist, communist, socialist, what is far left?

[Douglas Carpenter]

67. let's give it a very broad definition

do any leading Democrats hold or advocate leftist positions that are out of the general mainstream of ordinary opinion. If an opinion is a minority opinion, I would not say that is far left. Support for gay marriage is a minority opinion - but well within the range of common opinion. Support for single-payer universal health care in actually a majority opinion. So, it could not possibly qualify.

I am unaware of any positions held by any leading Democrats that are out of the mainstream of commonly held opinion.

[Douglas Carpenter]

84. I would also add -- far left by the standards of modern western democracy

In every other Western democracy -- Dennis Kucinich would at most be considered center-left. Howard Dean would be a staunch conservative.

[barb162]

66. Barnie Franks, Conyers, Ted Kennedy

[Douglas Carpenter]

68. what positons advocated by any of these three Gentleman would you

consider "far left"?

[barb162]

69. gay rights, national health insurance, etc.

[barb162]

70. Oops, maybe you want to define what YOU mean by far left

[Douglas Carpenter]

72. let's give it a very broad definition

do any leading Democrats hold or advocate leftist positions that are out of the general mainstream of ordinary opinion. If an opinion is a minority opinion, I would not say that is far left. Support for gay marriage is a minority opinion - but well within the range of common opinion. Support for single-payer universal health care in actually a majority opinion.

I am unaware of any positions held by any leading Democrats that are out of the mainstream of commonly held opinion.

[barb162]

73. Support for gay marriage is a minority opinion

I agree with you here. Where it gets dicey is things like expanding social security or medicare benefits, etc. because I don't know if that's a minority opinion as I don't recall seeing polls on it. Is zero or negative population growth a far left position? A few decades back it was "left" but not necessarily "far" left. I don't know what it is now. It gets dicey, doesn't it, to define far left.

[Douglas Carpenter]

76. my biggest complaint is not that the GOP calls Dems far left -I suppose

that's to be expected. What gets to me is when some "Dems" seem to back them up and give the GOP a great propaganda boost.

[rman]

77. For some, choosing a party is merely a career choice,

not so much a matter of political ideology.
A career as a political-corporate operative perhaps. If one would want to infiltrate and undermine a political party - or any organization for that matter - i'd not be very hard. It worked with the Unions. Just be covert about it, and patient. Plan long-term and have near endless funds coming from those who benefit. You don't do that on your own of course, you need your old-boys network.

[closeupready]

78. Why is being left assumed to be wrong?

That's not the problem. In fact, just the opposite. Dems have caved in to GOP demands, compromising the interests of the core Dem base, while seeking to attract the unreliable swing voter.

[barb162]

83. because Democrats allow the GOP to define what's center

and everything else

[Armstead]

79. Evan Bayh

[Disturbed]

80. Far Left meaning Socialists?

I feel that Socialists had direct influence in the 20s to 40s for bringing about the following. The RW are attemting to destroy all of the progress.

Liberal Accomplishments


Social Security;

Medicare-Medicaid;

PeaceCorps;

unemployment insurance;

welfare (for the poor andcorporate);

civil rights;

student grant and loan programs;

safety laws (OSHA);

environmental laws;

prevailing wagelaws;

right to collective bargaining (which brought about

paid medical insurance, paid vacations, pensions, etc.);

workers' compensation;

Marshall Plan;

flood-disasterinsurance;

School Lunch Program;

women's rights.

Fair Labor Standards Act, which
established a minimum wage, instituted child labor laws,
and set up time-and-a-half pay for over a 40-hour week.

FHA-HUD with its public housing, urban
renewal and 44 million residential homes (before WWII
almost 70 percent of our nation were renters; by the 1970s
this had been reversed).

farm-conservation
subsidies -- USDA programs,

Farmers Home Administration (the
bankers didn't want to make rural loans),

small flood-control lakes (more than 3,000 in Oklahoma alone),
rural water districts, rural electricity (REA).

The GI Bill was passed, which the Republicans at the
time bitterly opposed.

FDIC and FSLIC, insuring their deposits, and
saved Wall Street with the establishment of the Securities
Exchange Commission.

[AntiCoup2K4]

81. You forgot the "sarcasm" tag

Or at least I hope you did :scared:

[FrenchieCat]

92. Okey-Dokey!

Now, that's funny!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[TumorSupressor]

82. I like Thom Hartmanns take

He calls himself, and I consider my self, a member of the "radical middle". Far Left is communisism. Progressivisim is more middle or mainstream than people realize. Facisim is far right and the group at the top of your goverment are pretty much there I'm convinced.
Facisim: "A system of government which excercises dictatorship of the extreme right. Typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalisism" -The American Heritage Dictionary.
Sound familiar?

[EndElectoral]

85. Ted Kennedy, ...Barbara Boxer

[Douglas Carpenter]

86. what positions do Ted Kennedy or Barbara Boxer hold that are in any

way, shape or form far left?

Defining far left as leftist opinion outside the mainstream of ordinary opinion. A minority opinion is not necessarily hard left. The example I gave above is gay marriage is a minority opinion, but well within the range of common opinion. Single-payer universal health care is actually a majority opinion.

Also, one might define hard left as leftist opinion that is outside the norms of modern western democracy.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Douglas Carpenter]

88. first of all, welcome to DU

Al Sharpton may very well call himself a socialist. I didn't know that. But I will take your word for it. Remember Tony Blair also calls himself a socialist. The word means a lot of different things from Tony Blair to Maoist guerrillas.

Here is the website for Al Sharpton's positions on the issues. I think most people would define it as very liberal and very populist.

http://www.issues2000.org/Al_Sharpton.htm

[TheDonkey]

90. KERRY!! OMG He's a SOCIALIST LIBRUL

but seriously I guess I would say Kucinich is pretty left, perhaps Boxer in the Senate (but she's not that far left), perhaps Kennedy.

[FrenchieCat]

91. N-o!

[Douglas Carpenter]

93. THE WHOLE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE WITH THIS POST

What the right (including the right within the Democratic Party) is scared to death of are campaigns based on issues. They will always be better at campaigns based on BASELESS name-calling.

If someone says Howard Dean is "far left" insist that they explain what positions Gov. Dean advocates that are "far left". If they insist that Dennis Kucinich is "far left" insist that they explain what positions Mr. Kucinich holds that are "far left".

[Raksha]

94. "Far left" is Republican-speak for ANY Democratic candidate,

especially a candidate for President, but basically any Democrat who makes headlines, regardless of his/her actual positions. ALL of them with the possible exception of Joe Lieberman come from "the far left wing of the Democratic Party" according to the Repukes. It's just Rove-speak and doesn't mean anything.

[Douglas Carpenter]

97. indeed it its and it's unfortunate when some Dems echo these GOP talking

points

[applegrove]

95. I'll say it again. When the far left in Canada gets into power - they

follow middle liberal economic policies because they don't have their own. But they shine in innovative and forward - looking social policies and have given us much in that way.

Again - when in power - far left governs exactly like moderates. Economically they are the same. Of course they are for more regulation of corporations. But so are liberals.

[rman]

96. Ok so there's a dissonance between *real* public opinion,

and public opinion as portrayed by the main stream media.

If one listens to the MSM one would not know that 70% of US citizens is in favor of single-payer universal health care and opposed to Free Trade Agreements that weaken workers rights (NAFTA, CAFTA etc). The MSM would have it that those positions are far-left, while in fact those positions are mainstream.

That is what Noam Chomsky calls "manufactured consent" - a term that was introduced into political thinking in the 1920's by a political writer who figured the media can be used to manufacture consent, thus enabling better 'management' of democracy.

So much for democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Herman%20/Manufac_Consent_Prop_Model.html

www.chomsky.info

[WatchWhatISay]

98. The term is way overused.

Extreme PETAs, a few others, but pretty rare really.