Dean needs to come down South!

[Melodybe]

People here are mad that Kerry keeps stealing Dean's material.

Dean has been saying every thing that Kerry is saying now 6 months ago. I even heard him say wind energy not to long ago. Dean has been saying that to begin with!

The only thing that Kerry is not fessing up is the war and that was WRONG. Kerry was more concerned about his image than the fact that he was doing the wrong thing.


I am not sad anout this victory, I am angry about it. They are writting us off. You can not forget the South. People here are poor, they are tired, and they are opening up. things have changed here! We are being written off like a bunch of stupid rednecks and we are not.

Everyone has cable or satilite, every watches shows like Friends, Will and Grace, Sex in the city, we do not all spend our time being ignorant!

Dean and Edwards are well liked here.

People are starting to pay attention and the race for delegetes has begun.

[w13rd0]

1. In all fairness...

...both Kerry and Dean have spoken about renewable energy from the start. That's why way back in yesteryear, Kerry was #2 for me. I don't think he sells the concept as well as Dean though.

[cavebat2000]

2. No I agree with him

Kerry has copied and copied Dean. I have watched every single debate, and I have watched Kerry form his campaign from Deans. It's really made me sick. Im tired of it. Come to Ohio Kerry. You will get your @$$ kicked.

[EllieDem]

3. Thank God Kerry hasn't copied Dean

in his huge gaffes like saying "I will wait to hold judgment on Bin Laden's guilt"...........geez, I'm sorry but Dean blew it right there. And Kerry called him on it - and Kerry went up in the polls right after that.

[blm]

7. Get real. Kerry has been an environmental ACTIVIST for over 30 years.

He knows the science inside and out and has the highest rating of ALL the candidates.

Dean couldn't even GET the Sierra Club endorsement for ANY of his races because he was so pro business.

I think you just don't even KNOW enough about the two candidates because you have only paid attention to Dean's blog. You posted yesterday that you just found out Dean has a VERY procorporatist record. He didn't get it by studying windpower and other environmental solutions.

This post was for the original poster.

[Maddy McCall]

4. Mississippi will go to Clark or Edwards; I'm in Mississippi, too.

Many rural and small-town Southerners just won't vote for non-Southerners. It just won't happen, whether the voter is black or white. I live in the same state you live in--I teach at a university, am involved in state politics through the Democratic Party, and I live in a small town, so I am in contact with big-town intellectuals and small-town Southerners.

The people at the university with whom I have talked--liberal intellectuals from all over the U.S.--criticize Dean for being too moderate. They like Kerry--he represents the liberal establishment to them. Small-towners and rural folks--the majority of the demography in this state--still don't trust outsiders.

I've heard many rural and small-town people voice support for Clark and for Edwards. Sadly, though, Kerry and others from the Northeast don't have much support in the South--maybe pockets of support on college campuses, but no widespread support.

Many Southerners tend to be clanish and still look on Northerners with suspicion. This resulted not only from Confederate tradition but also from the influx of northern students during the civil rights battle in the 1960s.

I am not defending this mindset, just being honest about it. Very few people understand why the South is like it is, so I won't begin to list the reasons that it's this way. I began ignoring (and recently hiding--thanks elad!)"fuck the South" threads about a year ago.

[Melodybe]

5. Dean is popular here too

People here like a feisty candidate.

[Maddy McCall]

6. We shall see in March.

[Melodybe]

8. People are not going to forget about Dean!

It is not over!

[Maddy McCall]

9. I am not talking about remembering or forgetting Dean...

I am simply opining, based on my interactions with a wide array of Mississippi voters, that Dean won't have a fighting chance in this state. I doubt he picks up a single delegate.

[blm]

11. He dropped like a lead balloon in SC last week.

Kerry jumped up to 2nd.

[countmyvote4real]

12. You seem authentic. I am MS by birth, but not there now.

I don't think Dean or Kerry will play in the South. In fact, I don't think any Democrat besides Zell Miller could begin to win it. In that case, it's one step forward, two steps back.

Like you, I've been ignoring the FTS notions, but I'm starting to belive it's true. We've got to let it go and spend our resources where we can appeal to swing voters.

In other words, take our country back where we can.

[blm]

14. I heard Kerry was targetting Missouri and Ohio.

I think Nevada and Arizona are in play, too.

[ACPS65]

10. Yes it is

.

[HuskerDem]

13. I Dean doesn't spend a significant amount of time down south

all his goings on about being the only white guy talking about race are going ring more hollow than a diving bell.

If he doesn't try to deliver South Carolina, he loses major credibility.

[Rowdyboy]

15. Mississippi votes March 9th (I believe)

My guess-the Democratic voters will be 50%+ black. If Sharpton is still in (and you know he will be)-he's a 15-20% contender. Edwards has appeal for his southern charm and good ole country boy demeanor-truck drivers/factory workers and trial lawyers (we have a whole slew of 'em down here). Clark will appeal to more traditional white Democrats: government employees, business people, mid-management-especially men. Kerry has potential to draw heavily from the veteran population. Dean, IMHO, has nowhere to turn and nothing to be gained by campaigning here. Other than college students/intellectuals/activists, (and there are damn few in Mississippi) he has no base whatsoever.

Don't mean to be rude, and I'm open to being convinced that I'm wrong. I just don't see where Dean's electorate is here.

And Melodybe is correct...the south-while no piece of cake for a Democrat-should not be written off. Hell, Jimmy Carter carried Mississippi in 1976 and Bill Clinton came within 9,000 votes in 1996. That's a helluva lot better than Wyoming, Indiana or North Dakota usually do and no one wants to write off the West or mid-west.

[Nicholas_J]

17. No its not

A large percent of the South's democrats are black (47 percent of South Carolina's voting Democratic Base are black) And in every poll taken these people are fiscally progressive, and socially liberal, with 60 percent of them opposing things like civil unions, while they support the ideas of progressive fiscal responsibility, which trnaslated into normal English means to tax the rich more to pay for social programs for those who are not as affluent, or in fact are just darned poor. Dean did not help many of these people in Vermont, and if you looks at the fact that while Dean was governor, the rate of people without medical insurance either rose or stayed the same, while at the same time Dean quadrupled the number of children receiving state health insurance, the fact that he cut other people off to atain this becomes obvious

the health data is at:

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/jfo/Vermont%20Uninsured.pdf.


Providing more children with health insurance, even to those who earn a great deal more than the poverty level(up to 300 percent more, or 54,500 for a family of four) is fine. But not if you are going to cut off adults who are in poverty in order to do it.

I beleive this was more a clever political ploy, as you get the votes of two parents who you do this form as opposed to the one you lose by taking the benefits away from a poor, disabled single person without children who is trying to live on the 500 odd dollars a moth that you get from SSI. It is shifting coverage, rather than providing it for all who need it. This was the only program Dean was vehement on protecting, but many others suffered as a result. of Dean's cuts.

As one Vermont Legislator who was one of Vermonts formost advocates of protecting poor women and children said of the way they had to deal with Dean:

Snelling had already prescribed some tough medicine - a tax increase and budget cuts - that the Legislature enacted. It was up to Dean to manage it.

The tax increase was supposed to be temporary. The law required that it expire within two years. But Democrats, particularly liberals, demanded that Dean extend it to generate more revenue so they could abandon many of Snelling's budget cuts. Dean refused.


After two years of a top marginal tax rate at 34 percent, Dean let it drop back to 25 percent. A year later, he dropped it one percentage point more, to 24 percent.


"I was in battle mode with Howard Dean," said Seibert. "We were a Democratic majority. I was there to protect a certain segment of the population - poor women and their children. He was a fiscal conservative. I hadn't exactly bargained for that in a Democratic governor."

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/7068523.htm

It took the Vermont Senate to stop Dean from making his cuts, though he threatened to veto the senates restoration of funds to programs that assisted the poor:

Senate adds money to budget, angers Dean
May 9, 2002

By ROSS SNEYD The Associated Press

MONTPELIER — Senators passed a 2003 state budget Wednesday that the governor made clear he would veto if it ever reached his desk..


Even the governor’s closest allies in the Senate ignored him. Sen. Nancy Chard, D-Windham, recommended restoring $440,000 to one of the pharmaceutical assistance programs and the Senate voted 22-7 to go along with her.

“I’ve become convinced that we have a philosophical difference between the governor, the Republican House and this Senate,” said Senate President Pro Tempore Peter Shumlin, D-Windham.

{“The governor and the Republican House want to balance this budget on the backs of our most vulnerable Vermonters. The Senate wants to balance this budget on the backs of the pharmaceutical companies who are charging too much for drugs.”

http://timesargus.com/Legislature/Story/46513.html



Medicaid cuts to affect thousands
January 22, 2002


By DAVID MACE Vermont Press Bureau




MONTPELIER — Tens of thousands of Vermonters would see their state health care benefits rolled back or cut off completely under Gov. Howard Dean’s proposed budget, which seeks to wring $16.5 million in savings from Medicaid.

In an effort to curb costs in a rapidly expanding part of the social services budget, Dean is proposing to require many people who got coverage under his expansions of Medicaid programs to pay for a greater share of their health care.

Medicaid is the state-run program that uses both state and federal money to provide benefits to the poor and disabled. Over the past several years Dean has expanded the programs by allowing participation by Vermonters with incomes higher than the federal guidelines.

Under the proposed budget, about 3,200 elderly or disabled Vermonters who get half the cost of long-term drugs paid for under a program called VScript Expanded would see their benefits disappear. This would save the state nearly $2.5 million. A single Vermonter with an annual income up to $19,332 is currently eligible.

And even those making less who are covered under the state’s standard VScript program will see their costs rise.

http://rutlandherald.com/hdean/41121

Rather than return to the Snelling Progressive tax plan, Dean isnsited on raising a new tax on cigarettes but this:

Gov. Howard Dean, Visiting Randolph
Predicts Cigarette Tax Will Go Up


The governor admitted that he "never expected" the legislature to accept the deep Medicaid cuts he proposed this year. To offset the cuts, legislators are looking at the cigarette tax increase, with even the Republican House agreeable to a tax in the 35-cent-per-pack area.

Dean predicted, however, that after the Senate weighs in, something like the full 67-cent tax increase will be passed.

Even then, he stressed "we will need cuts anyway, especially in pharmacy benefits."

Passing a big cigarette tax increase and cutting some Medicaid benefits will "supply a cushion" of several years for the Medicaid program, he argued. After those several years, the Medicaid funding shortfall is likely to return, he admitted.

http://www.rherald.com/News/2002/0418/People/p01.html


Yet Dean still refused to return to the program which in the early years of his administration, allowed not only for a 65 million dollar deficit to be balanced, but allwed for major increase to the social programs that were started before Dean ever became governor, like Dr. Dynasaur, and VSCRIPT programs that were started in 1989, under the planning and guidance of the Vermont Independent, Con Hogan.


Deans reasons for opposing returning to this higher progressive tax on the rich. ..they already were taxed too much. (Even though the ITEP stated that they were totally taxed at a lower percent of total income than the poor and middle class)

Progressives call for higher taxes for rich
January 25, 2002

By JACK HOFFMAN

Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER — Vermont Progressives renewed their call Thursday for higher taxes on the wealthy in order to avoid some of the budget cuts that Gov. Howard Dean outlined earlier this week...


In 1991, then-Gov. Richard Snelling, a Republican, and the Democratic Legislature imposed surcharges on upper-income Vermonters to dig the state out of a huge budget deficit. Those surcharges were temporary, and they were lifted after the shortfall was repaid.

The Progressives said their proposal was designed to mirror the surcharges adopted during that last budget crisis, but they have not proposed an expiration date for the new surcharges.

Dean reiterated his opposition to raising the income tax shortly after the Progressives unveiled their tax plan. Dean contends Vermont’s marginal income tax rate — that is, the top rate paid by those in the highest income brackets — already is too high.



http://timesargus.com/Legislature/Story/41293.html

So frankly, Dean's overall record is the typical fiscal conservative one. Trickle Down Economics... If you let the rich keep more of their money, it will eventually trickle down from the rich to the poor.

But we know that this is more 'trickling on" the middle class and poor, than trickling down.

I will say one thing for Kerry's chances, the south has the highest population of veterans who are democrats than any other region.

In South Carolina alone, Kerry has 17,000 veterans already comitted to campaigning for him. Many many time more than the total he had in both Iowa and New Hampshire. Expect them to turn out in even greater numbers to campaign for him. They were largely responsible for the turbnout of the last three weeks.

[Nicholas_J]

16. I live in the heart of the deep south

and a place where the only way democrats could get re-elected was to switch party affialations and run as Republicans.

Deans supposed socially liberal, fiscally conservative policies will fly like a lead balloon in the south.

In Vermont, under Dean, the poor became poorer, more people ended up sinking into low paying minimum wage jobs, the overall rate of people who had no medical insurance increased for 7 out of the 11 years he served as Governor, and the overall tax situation became worse for the poor and middle class, while the rich paid less under Deans "reforms"

Vermont’s Tax Code: No Breaks for the Poor and Middle Class
When all Vermont taxes are totaled up, the study found that:

The richest Vermont taxpayers—with average incomes of $686,000—pay 9.7% of their income in Vermont state and local taxes before accounting for the tax savings from federal itemized deductions. After the federal offset, they pay only 7.1%.

Middle-income taxpayers in Vermont—those earning between $27,000 and $44,000—pay 9.8% of their income in Vermont state and local taxes before the federal deduction offset and 9.5% after the offset—much more than what the rich pay.


# Vermont families earning less than $16,000—the poorest fifth of Vermont non-elderly taxpayers—pay 10% of their income in Vermont state and local taxes, one and half times the share the wealthiest Vermonters pay.

“Vermont’s income tax is not progressive enough to offset the regressivity of its sales and excise taxes,” McIntyre said. “Taxes ought to be based on people’s ability to pay them, which means that the share of income paid in taxes should rise as income grows, not fall as is the case in Vermont.”


http://www.itepnet.org/wp2000/vt%20pr.pdf.


The Uninsured in Vermont
Joint Fiscal Office - Revised December, 2002


Table 2 – Estimates of the Percent Uninsured in Vermont, 1987-2001



Year US VT /
1987 12.9% 9.8%
1988 13.4% 10.7%
1989 13.6% 8.8%
1990 13.9% 9.5%
1991 14.1% 12.7%
1992 15.0% 9.5%
1993 15.3% 11.9%
11.0%
1994 15.2% 8.6%
1995 15.4% 13.0%
1996 15.6% 11.0%
1997 16.1% 9.5% 6.8%
1998 16.3% 9.9%
1999 15.5% 11.1%
2000 14.0% 8.6% 8.4%
2001 14.6% 9.6%



http://www.leg.state.vt.us/jfo/Vermont%20Uninsured.pdf


Vermont at a Glance

Many families in Vermont saw moderate improvements in their standard of living over the 1990s as the wages of median-wage workers grew. However, low-wage workers saw their wages decline over the 1990s, and median income stagnated. The poverty rate and income inequality in Vermont grew over the 1990s (see link below for table).

Median family income for four-person families
Middle-income families in Vermont have not fared particularly well during the current economic expansion. The incomes of families in the middle of the income distribution stagnated over the 1990s. Median family income for four-person families was $53,691 in 1998, compared to its 1989 level of $53,103 (in 1998 dollars).

Income inequality
Income inequality in Vermont grew over the 1990s. In the late 1990s, the income of the wealthiest 20% of families was 8.4 times that of the poorest 20% of families. By comparison, in the late 1980s, the wealthiest 20% of families had 7.4 times the income of the poorest 20%.

Poverty rate
The poverty rate in Vermont grew during the 1990s, from 8.1% in 1987-88 to 9.6% in 1997-98. However, the poverty rate in Vermont in the late 1990s remained below the national rate (13.0% in 1997-98).

Wages
In Vermont in the 1990s, the wages of low-wage workers declined, while the wages of similar workers grew at the national level. In 1999, the inflation-adjusted hourly wages of low-wage workers (workers at the 20th percentile) were 0.4% lower than they were in 1989, but due to wage gains in the 1980s they remained 10.5% higher than they were in 1979. The wages of workers in the middle of the wage distribution grew over both the 1980s and 1990s. The inflation-adjusted median wage (the wage of workers in the middle) in 1999 was 12.2% higher than it was in 1979.


http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/datazone_states_usmap_vt


Dean frequently managed to "balance the budget" in Vermont by making cuts to programs that assisted the most vulnerable people in the state. On numerous occasions he tried to cut ptograms to the poor, the elderly, the blind and other disabled individuals. It was only the resistance of the Vermont Progressive Party, and Vermont Liberal Democrats that kept Dean from gutting these programs.

Those who know Dean say he’s no classic liberal
By ROSS SNEYD




To the anger of more liberal members of his own party, he insisted that the tax increases be rolled back on schedule and then went on to work for additional tax cuts later in his tenure.

By the same token, though, he also supported raising taxes — as long as it wasn’t the income tax — when school funding crises and other issues arose that required it...

Dean trimmed spending or held down increases in areas held dear by the liberals. More than once, Dean went to battle over whether individual welfare benefits should rise under automatic cost of living adjustments. Liberals were particularly incensed when he tried that tactic on a program serving the blind, disabled and elderly, which he did several times.

http://premium1.fosters.com/2003/news/may_03/may_19/news/reg_vt0519a.asp

You can get an idea on which side of the political spectrum Dena falls, by looking at a recent quote, made by Deans closestt and oldest political and economic advisor:


It’s Business As Usual, Starring HOWARD DEAN

"The joke among a lot of Vermont Republicans was that they didn't need to run anyone for governor because they basically had one in office already," said Harlan Sylvester, a conservative Democratic stockbroker and longtime adviser to Dean.

(St. Petersburg Times, July 6, 2003)


http://www.optimalprime.org/archives/001435.html

The articles above are not part of the "right wing media plot" against Howard Dean. They all come from legitimate institutes and were not targeted towards Howard Dean at all, but docments from organizations examining the tax and economic policies of all states.

They fairly much indicate that if you were poor, disabled, or elderly you were pretty much placed at further disadvantage under Howard Dean's economic programs.

[w4rma]

18. I thought you said, before, that you lived in Vermont, Nicholas_J. (n/t)