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I Do Not Hate Bill Clinton, BUT....

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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 04:58 PM
Original message
I Do Not Hate Bill Clinton, BUT....
Edited on Sun Sep-18-05 04:59 PM by Totally Committed
Love him, or not, Bill Clinton has generated a lot of "talk" here in the last 48 hours. Below, I have listed just the threads here on GD: Politics, for the purpose of this post. One of the threads included here is called "Bill Clinton sucks". It is that thread, and to an epithet thrown here this morning that I would like to address.

First of all, in a country where George Bush is now the POTUS, one could never say Bill Clinton "sucks". And, no matter how hard Bill seems determined to be trying to convince us he shares DNA with the Family Bush, I am here to tell you that the only way George Bush and Bill Clinton could ever be said to be alike is they have both sat in the Oval Office. That, and the fact that they both need oxygen to breathe... George Bush does not even come close to Bill in brains, common sense, and the ability to talk in sentences that have more then three words. We all know that (or should), and remember it when we get angry with him. And, that anger... that righteous indignation that has been expressed here toward him, in my opinion, has been earned by him and that streak of self-destructiveness that always seems to get him into trouble sooner or later.

I always expected more of Bill. His potential was awesome. My utter disappointment with NAFTA and The Welfare Reform Bill aside, there was a good economy, people were happy and, for the most part, thriving in a growing middle class. We still had allies, and our enemies were defineable. Compared to the hell-on-earth of our current situation, Bill presided over our last taste hope for a lasting peace and prosperity. For that, alone, Bill Clinton does not "suck" and never could.

And that brings me to that pesky epithet, slung like it was nothing -- "Liberal Bill Clinton Haters". Hmmmm.... I am angry as hell at Bill Clinton, but I do not hate him, and that is a fact. But, let me tell you why I am so damned angry and disappointed with him. I have this illustration to offer:

This afternoon, I was out in my yard, getting some air. My next-door neighbors are Bushies. Big ones. To make a long story short, the husband was out in his yard and saw me. (Normally, we avoid each other. There was that ugly lawnsign incident during the primaries where he learned that even though I walk with a cane, I know other ways to use it.... it didn't even make the Police Log.) He came striding over and said "I guess you saw your boy, Clinton, sticking up for the President the other night, eh?" with a huge shit-eating grin on his face. I just shook my head, and half-way through my defense and rebuttal, I realized he wasn't listening to a word I was saying. He just stood there grinning. When I stopped speaking, he just said "Bill Clinton stood behind the President and said there was no way that New Orleans was his fault and we all need to support him." I tried to tell him that most of that was not what Clinton has said at all, but he interrupted me mid-sentence, poked me in the collar-bone, and said, "You lose... AGAIN!" And, then he turned and walked away laughing and saying "You lose!" repeatedly.

That's why I'm angry with Bill. Idiots like that saw him standing there and listened to every other word he said, adding two and two together and coming up with the Republican answer: 5. With his massive intelligence, surely he knows that that appearance has been misinterrpreted and misunderstood, and has given aid and comfort to the assholes like my neighbor, and reassurance to some of the "sheeple" who were just starting to "get" the Bush tragedy. Once again, Bill took the Democratic Party and shot it in the foot. I don't know how many more of these wounds we can take. He is our defacto "leader" and he has let us down AGAIN. I don't hate him, but if he were standing in front of me right now, he like my neighbor, would be aware of the business end of my cane, I can tell you that!

And, one last thing: The Bush love-affair is the end of my trusting him or Hillary again. No, I don't know what's involved, but I know what it looks like, and fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me. Nope. Don't trust either as far as I could throw them. (I won't even go into Hillary's dalliances with the DLC and Newt Gingrich... makes my sking crawl, it does.)

For those who are just coming onto the board and want to know what the hell I'm talking about, here are the threads Bill generated this weekend:

Bill Clinton sucks

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2097984&mesg_id=2097984

On AM talk shows: Clinton issues serious economic warnings !!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2098588

Clinton on ABC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2098183

Hmmmm. Bill Clinton on 'Meet the Press' Sunday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2097508

Clinton on "This Week" with George Stephanopolus.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2097768

CNN's Global Summit w/Clinton/Wolfowitz and Others! Had to Turn It Off!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2097375&mesg_id=2097375

Never mind the Pollocks as Clinton homes in on that legacy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2096524

Everyone who loves the Big Dog, warts and all, check in!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2097726

TC
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Again ....
He HAS to tread softly ... It would just be the shitstorm to end all shitstorms for Hillary if calls out this crew ...

He knows it, the Rs know it and they are just DYING for him to say anything they can twist in any way to put the indignant "SHAME ON THE FORMER PRESIDENT CRITICIZING THE SITTING PRESIDENT FOR POLITICAL GAINS FOR HIS WIFE" bs on the table ...

Jesus, Faux would do piece on it every half hour and have a nonstop banner running on the bottom of the TV until 2008 ....
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. So, this Party should look like a bunch of assholes
to avoid a shit-storm for Hillary?

The point is -- He didn't need to be there at all! Jimmy Carter wasn't there. Gerald Ford (in poor health, I know...) wasn't there. Would Bill have been there if he wasn't so buddy-buddy with Poppy Bush? I think not.

Aaaarrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

TC
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. It's one thing..
... to say nothing harsh and another to lavish with praise.

Now, Bill has already come out in another statement saying, in diplomatic but clear language, that president Bush** is full of it.

But, coming on the heels of the totally unnecessary ass-kissing he's been doing, frankly I think he's going a bit schizo. I'm not sure if he has a point, has a message, is doing anything but shooting his mouth off. And that we can do without.

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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. All the "sheeple" saw was him standing behind Bush...
As I said, most don't even listen when we speak. The visual was as damning as anything he said in support.

I am glad he seems to be criticizing now. I just wish he stayed away from that speech with all my heart. It was bad for this Party. I'm sorry, it was.

At last Carter has kept his distance... like they'd want him anyway.

TC
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree with you
and:

It's. All. About. Hillary.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. That's right, it's all about Hillary.
Edited on Sun Sep-18-05 05:19 PM by Benhurst
In other words, to hell with the United States of America and the peons scraping out an existence there.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. .
It's all about Hillary's move to the center and 2008. He owes it to her, anyway. He owes it to her to pimp himself out like a whore. He humiliated her for the past thirty years. And she, being the consummate power-hungry opportunist, stayed and stayed and stayed.

That's my personal take.

I would vote for Bill for any office if he was on the ballot. Anything. Today. Right now. Count my vote.
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5X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. He was obviously diametrically opposed to the shrub
on MTP this morning.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. So, he didn't say anything about *.........
not being responsible for the aftermath of Katrina at all this morning on MTP?

I didn't see it...just curious. I did see him somewhere last week defending *.....I'd prefer he stay silent rather than defend him. Wondering what take he had on the Katrina aftermath this morning. Thanks.
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Syncronaut Seven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well stated! Thank you.
As a recipient of some heat in one thread. I'll restate my one important question.

Why is the Big Dog keeping such company? After what they put him thru, it boggles the mind. Is he trying to prove he's the bigger man? That concept is pretty well established. If so, why restate the obvious?

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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. That is the thing ...
He doesn't have to "prove" he's the better man ...

He IS the better man ...
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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. The Clintons Are Part Of The New World Order
Bing!
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. That statement is the true crux of the
whole matter for people who cannot understand seeing Clinton/Poppy Bush together....you betcha...in it together...all of them, Bush/Clinton's/and a whole bunch of other well known important people...check out the Council on Foreign Relations...pretty much tells the story...
We don't need conspiracy theories, we have had a real live conspiracy going on in this country and worldwide, for years...NWO
windbreeze
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. They can't wound you if you don't let them.
You said it yourself. He never listened to a word you said.

Stop and take a good long look at what the republican reputation assassination machine did to Gore, Kerry, and of all people, Max Cleland. The attacks on them were not based on fact. The repulican hit team attacked with smears, lies and innuendo. They gave it a chance to sink into their follower's heads as fact and turned Gore, Kerry, and Max Cleland into objects of ridicule for the neo-cons. Incidentally, I noticed this weekend that Rove is now trying to use that very same tactic on Cindy Sheehan. The fact is that if Bill Clinton had been a saint, they would have simply made something up. That's a proven fact.

If it was me, I'd ditch the neighbor to the extent that is possible. His life revolves around gotcha and pointing fingers. That's not what I would call a friend or even an acquaintance.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. "If it was me, I'd ditch the neighbor
... to the extent that is possible."

Oh, I do! He is no friend or acquaitence... he just lives next door. And, he is a horse's rosette!

TC
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bill Clinton is an opportunist. That's all there is to the man. Looking
for the next opportunity to further himself. Further his wife (why do I sometimes suspect that was part of the deal they cut in return for her meek acceptance of the Monica affair>) and her political ambitions. And to hell with the rest of us.

You may not hate him. Wait, I was going to say something I really don't mean. I don't hate him either. He's just like something in the refrigerator that's gone bad. Might have been good for something once, but now it's all funky and stinky. And needs to be gotten rid of. Like he needs to go back to Arkansas and shut up and quit screwing the rest of us over.
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. I don't have American news,
except for MTP, I won't watch faux. I did see Clinton, listened briefly, then listened to the rest of the program. I found it very telling that Clinton is the only one speaking of this. The repugs can't defend their actions. When you lie, you can't defend it. Bill has always said if the prez asks me to do something, I'm going to do it for my country. I also find it very telling, (I've read all the post you listed) that there is a lot of Bill bashing going on. We should be thinking of policy's to support this new initiative, that will benefit us all. Such has increasing the minimum wage, public transportation. These were the things I saw being "discussed", call you representatives, and demand that these things are put into legislation. Play **'s game.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yes...whatever one thinks of him he got across some important progressive
points this morning (the bad economics of Bush, especially). He gets time on MSM easily. So he is an asset. However bad Bush is, we clearly need every asset we can muster to convince the other half of the country to turn away from him and his brand of Republicanism in 2006 and 2008 (and hopefully, once and for all).

And if he is doing things to help Hilary get elected in 2008, better than Jeb.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. I've been critical of Clinton...but I don't hate the guy...
It's rather disgusting the way some Clinton defenders are accusing others of 'hating' Clinton when it's nothing more than a difference of opinion. Those who actually 'hate' Clinton need to lighten up and get things in perspective.

The Democratic party really CAN be the party of the people. Right now...our party is going 'corporate' and leaving more and more Americans behind and with no one in DC to represent them. America and democracy can't survive with TWO corporate-owned parties.

That's why many of us are concerned about Clinton and his 'third way'. It's just a kinder, gentler version of Reagan's trickle-down economics that privatizes government services and no one is held accountable to the people.

Above all...we must remember that our government works for us...not the other way around. It's time we remind them of this and that they either act like PUBLIC SERVANTS or get the hell out of OUR government.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
17. I think that all this Clinton bashing is not a good thing
He has devoted his life to progressive causes -- though sometimes more moderate for some of our tastes, perhaps because of political necessity.

His whole political career, which overall has been quite successful, has been based to a large extent on a highly congenial personality.

His speech at the Democratic Convention in 2004 was one of the best I've ever seen -- perhaps THE best. It was highly effective IMO, despite the fact that he didn't have an unkind word to say about the political opposition. We need people like him in our party.

Aggressive attacks on Bush are fine -- and well warranted. But they should be done by politicians who can do it without changing their whole personality.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. This is not serving any purpose.
It's devisive.

He is no longer a candidate, nor will he be.

Let's unite on positive issues.
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Lecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
22. Err...
I'd say your biggest problem is your lame neighbor, and you shouldn't let dumbasses like that get to you.



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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. It's easier to criticize Clinton anonymously online....
Than to tangle with the next door neighbor.

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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
23. People hear only what they wish to hear.
Your neighbor cherry-picked what he wished to hear and ignored the rest of the information.

Also, based on the way you described your neighbor, he seems like a childish fellow who doesn't merit your time.

Why not just be proud of who you are and where you stand, and enjoy your life knowing that Bush has blown up in their faces?
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