Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What is the left wing, liberal, progressive and Dem. position today?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:14 PM
Original message
What is the left wing, liberal, progressive and Dem. position today?
Being new to this forum and having been swept up by the outrageous failure of the response to Katrina I came to find kindred spirits here.

But, I may be in over my head. Before I go around, ass-over-tea kettle, honking about my liberal cred. I just want to be sure I know what I am talking about.

I know what I have thought about and believed in, I know what I have seen happen to the economy, the environment, the benign neglect of the poorest among us, the puzzling and seemingly anti-capitalist loss of good American jobs, and odd acronymic trade agreements that don’t seem to help the average Joe and Jane, in fact, seem to hurt them. I have seen a widening in the gap between the wealthiest and the poorest, and the weakening of the middle class, blue collar workers, and unions.

I know that having heard about the RW neoconartists I have googled and read their position paper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Core_views_and_beliefs

And like a self- full filling prophecy, they having taken the WH, they have been placed in very high positions through out, and they have done pretty much what they said they wanted to do.

I have seen and heard RW religious leaders preach social politics from the pulpit on TV and on talk shows.

I have also heard Dr. Dean speak, I listened carefully to Senator Kerry, I watched and tried to absorb as much as I could from both sides, in order to understand the issues.

But, even if I don’t agree with them, I can probably discuss right wing positions better than left wing, or liberal or progressive.It seems RW pundits and PNAC spokes people have been getting busy all over the air waves and spout a coherent party liine.

So here are my questions: ( any definitions, ideas, links, are appreciated.)

What if any difference is there between: left wing, liberal, progressive and Democrat?

What the heck is the “far left wing” of the Democratic party that they (RW) are always talking about on TV shows, especially when the opposition seeks to define Democrats?

What is a left wing position today on:

On national security?
Military spending?
Middle east affairs?
Globalization?
Gun ownership?
Women's rights?
Fairness to gays?
The role of religion in society v government?
Neocons?
A women’s right to chose?
The environment?
How do we respond the ideas of a group like the PNAC?
How many think tanks do we have?
Who is our pre-eminent voice today, Dr. Dean?
Are there neo-liberals and paleo-liberals?

Where do we stand on unions?
-Are they weakened, if so why?

I am asking with honest humility, there are no stupid questions- and if I don’t know it’s better to ask than B.S. I can’t think of a better place than this to ask.

Peace







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is a great thread that could go towards infinity!
I would also like answers. I don't know there's that much of a discrepancy, but would love someone to enlighten.
I distinguish between right and wrong, and what is going on in our country is wrong. On many levels. And that's all I have to say on that subject at this point. :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. You post that list like they are all up or down questions. They are not.
Oh - and Welcome to the DU :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Is any thinking question a "yes" or "no" one?
Black/white, up/down, etc. I invite people with questions, and feel better for other points of view...sometimes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. So if a discussion ensues - one would expect various positions -
especially from Dems in the House & Senate with access to intelligence that we do not have.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. applegrove, you are a great thorn in my side, sometimes.
You posit your opinions, but rarely respond to someone who calls you on your opinions. What's up with that? But I truly enjoy your remarks! You are a true - what is that word? Curmudgeon? Oxymoron, thinker, great mind? Thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I'm always fighting for the big DU tent. We have three parties in Canada.
The Liberals always win elections because there are three parties. I would not want to see the neocons merge with moderates. That would be a nightmare and exactly what the delusional neocons are after.

We had neocons in Ontario. They did horrid things there too. And they cared not one whit how the poor crashed - they just sat there and said "it is there responsibility for being poor in times of immediate & catastrophic upheaval".


You guys have got to stick together. The world is counting on you.

And - then there was the curious incident of the neocon trying to dispence fear to the far left in Canada last may - so that 1) neocons in Canada could have an election on an issue they could win 2) that election would have re-booted the separatist movement in Quebec. By playing up particular fears in Canada. No, no, no - it will not do.

People have worked so hard in the U.S. & in Canada and the world - to get together and try and work on things and not hate each other. I refuse to be a par of 'distinct & peticular doses of fear doled out to various groups of voters' so that neocon can re-invent the world in their image. I refuse. They are wrong - wrong - wrong. They have been policy wrong in every single incarnation of themselves.

One thing I am not surprised about. They don't want to have a name. If I was them - I wouldn't want to have a name either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Yes, you are a fighter! and I thank you for that.
The reaction to Katrina, and the war in Iraq, have convinced most of us at DU that their efforts are lame.
You make a difference!
BTW, you were mentioned in a thread about the grand jury in the Plame case coming to fruition on a certain date; can you give me a link?
Thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Those were rumours from week one of Karina. Thanks for the thanks.
I appreaciate all I have learnt here & my understand & knowledge of mercans has gone way up. You all rock! And sorry if i flit about - but i am a gatherer of information and trends so i don't always stay long or get to know people. You do what you do best. Keep up the fight.

Apathy is the enemy. And when I come across the apathetic - i try and get them to take a break, cry or pump them up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kahleefornia Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. my version of left wing
Edited on Mon Sep-19-05 10:34 PM by kahleefornia
...all I can offer!

<On national security?>

I prefer isolationism.

<Military spending?>

Wayyyyy too high. Aggression begets aggression.

<Middle east affairs?>

Gee whiz who has any idea how to solve that mess anymore.

<Women's rights?>

Absolute.

<Fairness to gays?>

Fairness to all human beings, sexual preference has nothing to do with it.

<The role of religion in society v government?>

OUT!!! absolutely.

<A women’s right to chose?>

To every extent. No limitations or judgements of any kind. As long as it is physically attached to your body, it is completely your business.

<The environment?>

Please let's try to save what is left of it. Are snomobiles in Yosemite really necessary??

<Where do we stand on unions?
-Are they weakened, if so why? <

Yes, they are weakening. I wish they weren't. I think that people don't understand what Unions do for everyone, not just members. WHy work your life away for some corporate bottom line? People work for their own quality of life and it should be maintained and defended.

There you go! I didn't answer the ones I didn't have big opinions on. Far from official, but since I consider myself a democrat, I think it counts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. kahleefornia, way too simplistic. But you are at least
thinking and are here. Keep reading, and thanks for your thoughts!

FYI: my problem with your thoughts starts here:
<On national security?>

I prefer isolationism
That's the wrong answer. one day we will chat. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. This may help you.......
Edited on Mon Sep-19-05 10:58 PM by serryjw
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I heard about DU from a woman who stood next to me at an end the war
rally, this summer. The one that was nation wide in support of Cindy.

We stood on the curb, about 35 of us in red state usa, with candles and end the war signs, and I was spouting off about the neoconnie agenda to any poor soul that would listen and a woman came over and told me about DU.

Just a small thing, one sentence, then when The Katrina Administration failed I remembered you guys. Voila.

Oh yea, good site, thanks!

http://www.pdamerica.org/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Very Welcome!
Stay a while and bring a bunch of friends:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-05 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for the welcome, and they are not yes/no questions
Edited on Mon Sep-19-05 11:16 PM by bluedawg12
I asked for positions on, not do we agree with...

I know they are complex issues, and I know I have seen many smart people here, so even if one person answers one, and multiplied by 10, that's 10 good answers!

But anyone who answers all- well, LOL, I am not worthy.:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Here's what I came up with....Since you are worthy!
Edited on Tue Sep-20-05 01:34 AM by FrenchieCat
What the heck is the “far left wing” of the Democratic party that they (RW) are always talking about on TV shows, especially when the opposition seeks to define Democrats?

What is a left wing position today on


This lists includes the 4 main political ideology based on the categories you mentioned, as I see them....


On national security?
FLW= Diplomacy/Allies/Int'l Law/Military off the table/if something goes wrong, its probably America's fault- See Asshole Bush, you invaded, and now I will say, I told your dumbass!

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Diplomacy/Allies/Int'l Law/Military only as a last resort/protect American interest and humanitarian - Didn't buy the WMD Story in Iraq - and the Shit is fucked up now!

MOD/CENTRIST = Diplomacy/Allies/U.S. Law/protect American economic interests - IRAQ OK but then found out no WMDs. Oops! Oh well!

RW/NECONS = Coalition of the colluded/U.S. laws bent into shape/protect and promote economic interests/fuck humanity!


Military spending?
FLW= None, or next to none

LW/PROGRESSIVES = lots, but less than now

MOD/CENTRISTS/STATUS QUO = Like now - After all, we are America

RW/NECONS = always more!

Middle east affairs?
FLW= Palistinians are justified in actions against Israel, those greedy bastards

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Israel is as correct as the palistinians, but don't quote me on that!

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = Israel is more correct than the palistinians

RW/NECONS = Israel is always correct; Palistinians are a pain in the ass


Globalization?
FLW= None

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Only with safeguards toward worker's rights/strict trad agreements

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = OK as is, Worker's rights...only Americans are of any concern whatsoever!

RW/NECONS = Free Trade = GREED Is Good! Worker's rights? Fuck worker's rights....as long as it's not my job!

Gun ownership?
FLW= No guns or super heavy regulations

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Police, no assault weapons/tracking system/wait period/safety latch/moderate regulations

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = Light regulations/safety latches/scared to even discuss the topic!

RW/NECONS = GUNS, GUNS, GUNS, GUNS, 2ND AMENDMENT before the 1st!


Women's rights?
FLW= Are you kidding? Always

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Are you kidding? Almost always

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = Are you kidding? If its my wife or daughter
only!

RW/NECONS = Woman is nothing but a rib - property have rights?


Fairness to gays?
FLW= Of course, don't be ridiculous==Grow up already!

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Of course, why not? But don't quote me on that!

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = Well....it depends - Not marriage, that's for sure! Think I want to lose an election?

RW/NECONS = Get them off the face of this earth now! You gay or something? Read your damn bible!

The role of religion in society v government?
FLW= separate for sure! Religion is nearly evil!

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Separate -- But I am religions, but believe that to be a seperate issue altogether.

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = Maybe seperate, maybe not. I don't know....ask me tomorrow, after the polls come out!

RW/NECONS = GOD talks to me and told me to use religion to get what I want.

Neocons?
FLW= Satan

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Assholes

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = Not very reasonable -- NeoLib is wayyyyy better!

RW/NECONS = GODS!

A women’s right to chose?
FLW= Anything goes!

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Kinda of everything goes, with caution on that last trimester.

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = Abortions OK, but don't want to be pinned down on that too much. I'm waiting to see what the polls say.

RW/NECONS = Women were made from my rib. They will do what I say! But they can get an abortion if they can pay for it.

The environment?
FLW= Alternate, Alternate, Alternate (wind, hybrid, solar, anything but fossil fuel.....like now!

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Alternate (wind, hybrid, solar, clean coal, ethanol) but until then, Natural gas & fossil fuel is in the game.

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = Alternate (wind, hybrid, solar, clean coal, ethanol, nuclear) but until then, Natural gas & fossil fuel is the only game.

RW/NECONS = fossil fuel is king! natural is life! I kill for fuel! Alternate?.... :rofl: Global Warming? Come on now. I'll believe that when you buy what I'm selling on creationism!

How do we respond the ideas of a group like the PNAC?
FLR= Hate them with a passion

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Hate them without passion

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = NeoLibs are so much more elegant!

RW/NECONS = Love is in the air!

How many think tanks do we have?
FLR= the Kind no one want to associate with

LW/PROGRESSIVES = some, but I'm embarassed by about 1/2 of them

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = Many, and we are the smartest ones, of course

RW/NECONS = So many that although we're really stoopid, we've gotten people to think that we kinda of smart.

Who is our pre-eminent voice today, Dr. Dean?
FLR= That man is just too moderate!

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Yep...Dr. Dean is just too cool, that truth telling super duper guy!

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = He's kinda of OK...but please, just don't let him visit my state!

RW/NECONS = That guy should be in the looney bin....cause he scares the shit out of me.

Are there neo-liberals and paleo-liberals?
FLR= A slightly kinder and gentler asshole compared to the neo-cons, which makes them even more dangerous!

LW/PROGRESSIVES = Sortof a Assholes' hemorrhoid, or a better alternative, but far from perfect.

DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = That would be us!

RW/NECONS = Copy cats without the guts!


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ZombieNixon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Sooo...I am
On national security?
LW/PROGRESSIVES = Diplomacy/Allies/Int'l Law/Military only as a last resort/protect American interest and humanitarian - Didn't buy the WMD Story in Iraq - and the Shit is fucked up now!

Military spending?
MOD/CENTRISTS/STATUS QUO = Like now - After all, we are America (though I don't agree with the last clause or the phrasing on this one)

Middle east affairs?
LW/PROGRESSIVES = Israel is as correct as the palistinians, but don't quote me on that!

Globalization?
LW/PROGRESSIVES = Only with safeguards toward worker's rights/strict trad agreements

Gun ownership?
Somewhere between these two:
LW/PROGRESSIVES = Police, no assault weapons/tracking system/wait period/safety latch/moderate regulations
DLC/MODS/CENTRISTS = Light regulations/safety latches/scared to even discuss the topic!

Women's rights?
FLW= Are you kidding? Always

Fairness to gays?
FLW= Of course, don't be ridiculous==Grow up already!

The role of religion in society v government?
LW/PROGRESSIVES = Separate -- But I am religions (OK, I'm "spiritual" not "religious"), but believe that to be a seperate issue altogether.

Neocons?
LW/PROGRESSIVES = Assholes

A women’s right to chose?
LW/PROGRESSIVES = Kinda of everything goes, with caution on that last trimester.

The environment?
LW/PROGRESSIVES = Alternate (wind, hybrid, solar, clean coal, ethanol) but until then, Natural gas & fossil fuel is in the game.

How do we respond the ideas of a group like the PNAC?
FLW= Hate them with a passion

How many think tanks do we have?
LW/PROGRESSIVES = some, but I'm embarassed by about 1/2 of them

Who is our pre-eminent voice today, Dr. Dean?
LW/PROGRESSIVES = Yep...Dr. Dean is just too cool, that truth telling super duper guy!

Are there neo-liberals and paleo-liberals?
LW/PROGRESSIVES = Sortof a Assholes' hemorrhoid, or a better alternative, but far from perfect.

• Mostly LW/Progressive and my two FLW and DLC answers cancel each other out. Hey, If you can pigeonhole me, you're damn good! :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
10. Oh shit, I could cry!
This is great. yes, yes and YES!!! I can live with this.

It has fairness --to all--to all!

It's what I believe but laid out simply and clearly.

Great link, thanks!!

How come I never heard of this on CNN, or tweety pie?

This is good and needs to be blasted across the nation.

I feel good woooww James Brown spin and shuffle.


I belong.


THE PROGRESSIVE PROMISE: FAIRNESS FOR ALL

The Congressional Progressive Caucus offers the Progressive Promise for all. We believe in government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Our fairness plan is rooted in our core principles. It also embodies national priorities that are consistent with the values, needs, and hopes of all our people, not just the powerful and the privileged. We pledge our unwavering commitment to these legislative priorities and we will not rest until they become law

FIGHTING FOR ECONOMIC JUSTICE AND

SECURITY IN THE U.S. AND GLOBAL ECONoMIES.

To uphold the right to universal access to affordable, high quality health care for all.

To preserve guaranteed Social Security benefits for all Americans, protect private pensions, and require corporate accountability.

To invest in America and create new jobs in the U.S. by building more affordable housing, re-building America’s schools and physical infrastructure, cleaning up our environment, and improving homeland security.

To export more American products and not more American jobs and demand fair trade.

To reaffirm freedom of association and enforce the right to organize.

To ensure working families can live above the poverty line and with dignity by raising and indexing the minimum wage.

2. PROTECTING AND PRESERVING CIVIL RIGHTS

AND CIVIL LIBERTIES.

To sunset expiring provisions of the Patriot Act and bring remaining provisions into line with the U. S. Constitution.

To protect the personal privacy of all Americans from unbridled police powers and unchecked government intrusion.

To extend the Voting Rights Act and reform our electoral processes.

To fight corporate consolidation of the media and ensure opportunity for all voices to be heard.

To ensure enforcement of all legal rights in the workplace.

To eliminate all forms of discrimination based upon color, race, religion, gender, creed, disability, or sexual orientation.

3. PROMOTING GLOBAL PEACE AND SECURITY.

To honor and help our overburdened international public servants – both military and civilian.

To bring U. S. troops home from Iraq as soon as possible.

To re-build U.S. alliances around the world, restore international respect for American power and influence, and reaffirm our nation’s constructive engagement in the United Nations and other multilateral organizations.

To enhance international cooperation to reduce the threats posed by nuclear proliferation and weapons of mass destruction.

To increase efforts to combat hunger and the scourge of HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, malaria, and other infectious diseases.

To encourage debt relief for poor countries and support efforts to reach the UN’s Millennium Goals for Developing Countries.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
15. A Little More Complicated
I agree with a couple of the other opinions on this thread that it can be hard to categorically label an opinion "liberal" or other, just by a cursory run-down of it. You can have opinions for or against issues, as both a liberal or a conservative, (stereotypically). Take the issue of illegal immigration taking jobs away from Americans: you can be for or against it, as both a liberal or conservative, using very simplistic frameworks. Think of this, as a thumbnail sketch:

For illegal immigration, liberal--Our country is open to all, there should be no nationalistic borders keeping oppressed people from freedom, it is racism that wants to keep them out;
For illegal immigration, conservative--They are from oppressive regimes and are therefore exploitable; I can pay them a pittance and they won't complain, or threaten them with deportation if they do;
Against illegal immigration, liberal--This is yet another scam by multinational corporations to bust all unions and workplace regulations, kill the middle class and deny employment to Americans who expect to be treated and paid fairly, and instead turn the whole world into a marketplace of slaves fighting with each other over a small number of horrible jobs, the immigrants are the exploited, imported knives hanging over our heads;
Against illegal immigration, conservative--This should be a white country, there are too many of them here already.

Very simpleminded, but you get the idea, that an opinion is not necessarily easy to categorize unless you really know it, with more detail. Take crime: is it "being tough on criminals" ("conservative"), or "fighting for abused victims' rights" ("liberal")? This is why you can sometimes jump at people, and know what they were, but sometimes you were just labelling them with your own pattern of thought, which may or may not be what they were doing. I am very left-wing on social issues, government spending and programs to help citizens, etc., yet I am not just automatically anti-war, and I like tough sentences for criminals, partly because the victims they violate can now live in peace. Liberal? I say--yes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Great answer- the issue of illegal immigration was one
that came to mind.

When shrubco wants to euphemize them as "udocumented workers" I smelled a rodent. It telegrpahed- cheap labor.

When libs spoke of racism I had to wonder how that posture related to the fact the cheap, non-union, foreign labor lowers wages for American workers. I know that if the foreign workers had to be paid fair wages, and workers comp, and benefits, and allowed to have collective bargaining- chimpco would be erecting bard wire fenced land mine fields this side of the rio grande.

It depends on point of view I guess, whether the good of poor people crosses national boundaries versus the good of American workers and labor.

I think, IMHO, it starts with the truth:

Nations must have control over their sovereign borders.
Nations have the right to control immigration and to demand documentation about anyone who eneters their borders.
Foreign labor must be documented and subject to the same duties and benefits as American workers. i.e. paying taxes and getting fair wages.

As it stands now, I see it as lowering working conditions for American workers and bringing in undocumented workers creates an underground competition for jobs and lowers wages that's unfair practice.


I can't just repatriate to Canada and buy a house and ask for Canadian rights and benefits- I have to apply for citizenship.

I know Americans cannot own land in Mexico with in 50 miles of a coast line. It has to be in land.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
18. On National Security..I'm for it
Military Spending..We need some but right now are spending way too much
Middle East Affairs..We are blowing it..We need to butt out.
Globalization..It is inevitible..We need to prepare our citizens better for it.
Gun Ownership.. A Constitutional Right but should be Safety regulations and requirements just like any other dangerous piece of equipment.
Women's Rights.. They should be equal to men's. No more or no less.
Fairness to gays..Fairness to all people period.
Role of religion in government....zero ...in society.. should be free to choose
Neocons...A plague upon America
Womans right to chose...Of course
The environment...Should be sacred
Unions..We do not support them any more than we support minorities yet expect their complete support. We are blowing it "Big Time" on this issue

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Debs Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. I think the liberal/progressive position is what it has always been
For me that breaks down to two bedrock principles. 1) People have rights, property doesnt, any dispute between people and property must end with people on top. 2) Never, NEVER, stand with the powerful against the weak
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-05 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. I'll give it a shot
Edited on Tue Sep-20-05 07:14 PM by ProudDad
On national security?

The safer the people of the world feel, the safer we are. I would emphasize investment in sustainable development, sustainable health care and poverty amelioration throughout the under-served world. I would take as my models Cuban Health Care, the Gramin Bank, the Zapatista experiments in Democracy, etc. We could get the funding by shrinking the military and heavily taxing the profane profits that the corporations and the rich are taking out from their economic exploitation of the earth.

http://www.bankersindia.net/bankexpo/bankexpo.htm?banks/smgb/display.htm
http://www.eco.utexas.edu/faculty/Cleaver/zapsincyber.html
http://www.radio4all.org/aia/dec_directdemocracy.html


Military spending?

AN EXTREME WASTE!!! We don't need a fuckin' giant military. A small force for contingencies would be all that's necessary. The remaining $500B + could be used for number one above.


Middle east affairs?

Demand that Israel negotiate in good faith with the Palestinians or they don't get the $3 Billion a year from us that props up their theocratic dictatorship. The REAL problem in the Middle East is the U.S. propping up the Israeli govt. as a proxy military force in the region for the purpose of attempting to control the supply of mid-east oil. Demanding an equitable solution to two peoples with a claim to the territory with dignity and safety for both peoples would ELIMINATE the main impediment to peace in the region. The other main solution would be to start eliminating our dependence on oil.


Globalization?

See number one above. Globalized trade is inevitable...BUT...trade without worker and environmental protections is DEATH for the entire world economy. Tax the SHIT out of the bastards who are making exorbitant profits from their rape and pillage of the earth to use for number 1 above.


Gun ownership?

Hand guns OUTLAWED. Long guns for hunting, property defense (in rural areas) and a well regulated militia registered and heavily regulated.


Women's rights?

All people have certain inalienable rights. Women, along with "minority" races and creeds have traditionally been denied their basic rights in this country by the ruling class. This cannot be allowed to continue.

In addition, The basic woman's right of what happens to and within their own bodies is territory that the government has NO right to legislate about.


Fairness to gays?

See previous. All people have rights. The government has no business determining who you love or how you do it. Nor does the government have the right to discriminate in favor of heterosexual unions whatever they're called and against other family formations. Currently they do.


The role of religion in society v government?

In government -- NONE!

In society, let the marketplace decide without ANY government promotion of or interference with any persons' religious ideas. The government should also remain completely neutral about religion or NON-religion. Any hint or suggestion of favoritism of one religious theory over another is FORBIDDEN in all cases.

In addition, it's very easy for them to discriminate against those of us who DON'T believe in any "god". Fuck that! We'll be a real democracy when a black, female, lesbian atheist can be elected president.


Neocons?

A symptom of the disease. The disease is that government is Big Brother and has the right to tell you how to believe, which children you MUST have and how you should be allowed to love. Fuck 'em.


A women’s right to chose?

See womans' rights above.


The environment?

Should be protected against the inevitable, immoral drives of the capitalists.


How do we respond the ideas of a group like the PNAC?

They are fascist and wrong. They are counter-productive and make us less safe. If one lived in a neighborhood and one well-armed neighbor kept on coming into other people's houses and taking things at the point of the gun, we'd have him arrested. That's the basic message of this slime...We can take anything we want 'cause we can and "must". That's sociopath thinking.


How many think tanks do we have?

Quite a few and growing. Just a couple: Center for American Progress and the Rockridge Institute. Lies need a lot of justification and hot air to sustain them, the truth just doesn't need that much help.


Who is our pre-eminent voice today, Dr. Dean?

As far as slightly left-of-center capitalists go, we could do worse at the moment.


Are there neo-liberals and paleo-liberals?

No???

Kucinich, Miller (George) - neo-liberals. Landreau, Lieberman - paleo-liberals? Aw, stupid question (no offense). Labels are bullshit -- it's what you do not what you say that counts.


Where do we stand on unions?

Workers Union COULD be the only way to counter the power of the tiny percentage of the population that controls (currently) what's happening in the work place. Most unions are structured the same way that the corporations are and therefore their "leaders" find more common ground with the bosses than with the workers. A grass roots one big union approach will be the only true deterrent to the ruling class in the future if we can get one to reach critical mass. Again see the thinking of the Zapatistas -- withholding obedience to the "established order". Think about it.


-Are they weakened, if so why?

They became the same kind of bullshit hierarchies that the corporations are. The leaders who weren't killed were co-opted and bought out by the bosses and then sold out the workers for a few bucks for a little while.


There you go...some stray thoughts on the subjects.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC