Just an opinion, bc I don't know enough, but why can't we pay for Katrina

[sepia_steel]

reconstruction and aid by alleviating that tax break that the wealthy get?

And why can't churches pay taxes? Isn't that the mentality anyway - "Churches help people therefore we don't tax them?" (feel free to enlighten me on that one, I have never looked into how that works)

Why should churches NOT help fund the government like everyone else has to? I know some might think that would violate seperation of church and state, but how can we say we have real seperation of C&S in the first place if we make them tax exempt? Why do they get a government benefit?

Or maybe these big, multi-million/billion dollar 'ministries' that always seem so corrupt to me could pay to help people in OUR country and not the smaller churches (I don't think all churches are corrupt, I think many DO help people as they preach that we should)...

Just thoughts. I don't know how it works and was thinking out loud. Any feedback?

[phantom power]

1. I believe church exemption from taxes has more to do with separation

of church/state.

[sepia_steel]

2. I thought so,

but that's what I said already.

??

[kahleefornia]

3. I'd still rather churches not pay taxes.

There seems to be an entitlement feeling you get from paying taxes - "hey, I pay my taxes, and yet they still haven't fixed the potholes in my road..." I think churches paying taxes would lead to them expecting public schools to be more religious, and for government to in turn fund more religious programs.

It's tricky, though. I too feel like it's unfair that they don't have to pay taxes, especially when other special interest groups like the Sierra Club certainly do. (Or at least donations I make to them are not tax-exempt).

[sepia_steel]

4. yeah i'm in the same boat.

i worry about them using it as leverage, but I still feel they should have to pay like other groups/businesses/organizations do. we SAY we have separation, but they get a 100% tax cut...

[noahmijo]

5. Churches ALREADY feel entitled to get into politics

The way I see it if the churches stay outta politics I mean not even a single fucking meeting the government to demand more talks about porn and abortion THEN you can be exempt but the minute you use prayer time to preach to your sheep about how you must never vote for anyone to the left of Jerry Falwell then your ass should be taxed.

Churches are a business I don't give a shit what anyone says they are a business they collect donations and use them to pretty up their buildings or buy their leaders new cars. They should be taxed as hard as any other business out there ESPECIALLY when they are using the wealth to influence political discourse as opposed to exclusively adhereing to the teachings of Christ or Allah and helping the downtrodden out.

[sepia_steel]

6. i agree totally

"Churches are a business I don't give a shit what anyone says they are a business they collect donations and use them to pretty up their buildings or buy their leaders new cars."

edit: i especially agree with your subject line. we have no real separation.

[noahmijo]

7. See I seperate the church from the religion

Those who want to follow whatever their choice of God be in the name of compassion and mercy I don't care if it's Jesus, Allah, or even Apollo if they preach compassion and give blood and food to those who need it that kind of thing my hat's off to you you're a better person than me.

On the other hand I really have yet to see an organized church perform any such act. Oh yea I know all churches at some point have their field days where on Christmas they cook for the starving and so forth, but if they were truly followers of Jesus the collection plate money would immediately be turned into food or medicine for those in need, not more cloth or treasures for the church.

[ProudDad]

9. There's a political reason

for the Sierra Club to pay taxes. They engage in political activity.

Churches, on the other hand, are not supposed to lobby. If they do lobby the gov't or engage in political activities they are required to pay taxes (can lose their tax exempt status).

So why ain't that pig pat robertson paying taxes?

Unfortunately, since theocrat number one was selected to occupy the aptly named White House, there's not a snowball's chance in hell of the gov't enforcing separation.

[Igel]

8. Remove the non-profit designation, or keep it.

For all or for none.

Churches can pay taxes. If they want to. Otherwise they're considered charities, with no earned income. Since they have no earned income, they pay no taxes. Their employees typically do; although some old-time ministers aren't covered by Social Security (I worked for a church where the ministers paid no FICA taxes).

Earned income tends to be taxed, esp. if not a result of the purpose for which a non-profit was founded.

ASUCLA, the UCLA student-run complex of enterprises, is non-profit (but predates all laws requiring incorporation). It pays no taxes on income from some activities, those 'serving students'. In fact, because of the way it's structured, students--it's 'members'--pay no sales tax on some services and goods provided by ASUCLA. But some of its income is unrelated to serving students, and on that it pays taxes.

As for not interfering with politics, churches on both sides of the political divide are involved. They've always been involved in politics; and to the extent a community wants its valued reflected in politics, they always will be. I believe the stipulation is that they must be non-partisan, but I could be wrong.

[Yupster]

10. If you removed the excemption on churches paying taxes,

you wouldn't get a whole lot of tax money out of it.

I have served on church finance committees. I've never been on one of a church which made any money.

In fact, every church I've ever served on has had a month to month fight to balance its budgets. The pastor and other staff routinely go a month during the summer without pay or a month behind on pay because giving drops so much during the summer.

If you're thinking that churches make oodles of money, you're wrong. There might be a few mega-churches, but I'd even doubt that. I'd bet even the churches on TV are in debt up to their noses.

[Yupster]

11. We could pay with a tax increase

and we will someday, but not with this president in office.

He knows that the thing that destroyed his dad was raising taxes, and he's not going to do that even if the country crumbles around him, .....kinda like it's doing now.

Also as an aside, I note you're calling for tax increases on two groups, the wealthy and the church. Are you a member of either of those groups?

Not that it matters, but I notice whenever someone offers a tax increase or a program cut or the compromise of a group's rights, that person making the proposal is usually not a member of the group that will be effected. Generally the post is something like "my group needs lower taxes. Raise everyone else's and cut mine."

Or "I'm a straight married guy. I think it's time to compromise on the issue of gay marriage."