I know that Nagin is a Dem and we need to support him...BUT

[KoKo]

does "smacking gum" at a Major Press Conference which is shown all over make him look kind of "casual." I know that New Orleans is a Casual City ...where that Blues and Jazz just goes on...and the drinks and the food soothe the souls of those who go there as one of the last "REAL PLACES" in the US that Disney or NASCAR or Apathy hasn't taken hold.

But...how far does one have to go in supporting Dems...who seem to ally themselves with Repugs? How he manages to get along with General Honore and seems the "coolist of cool" in photos with the "Chimp' is sort of beyond me.

Is Nagin just an "ordinary guy" who got caught up in something SO BIG?

[hippiechick]

1. Prepare for the flaming avalanche ...

... I got slammed this morning for suggesting that he wasn't Jebus incarnate ...

[Bumblebee]

19. Hope not! I believe there are quite a few of us here who do not think very

highly of either him or Honore, and with good reasons, I may add.

[Tomee450]

23. I think some people are

alarmed to see two black men unafraid to speak their opinion. I don't see such strong dislike of other Democrats such as Senator Mary Landrieu, the state Attorney General (a relative of hers), or of Governor Blanco. Lately on this forum it's been all about Nagin, and now Honore is also being criticized, for what, I don't know.

[faithfulcitizen]

25. Honore is wonderful and funny, but imo he oversteps his bounderies...

for instance, when Nagin ordered everyone to evacuate and Honore said that he was doing no such thing and that they are there to bring water, etc. Since when does the military tell elected officials what to do? The ragin' Cajun thing is charming, but to say when he came to town he kicked ass, blah, blah, blah, is ridiculous. I guess when you *finally* show up with the water, food, and 1000's of troops, people will say "wow, he really knows how to get things done." :eyes:

and yes General, the media does have the right to ask why people are being sent to the convention center again. They have the right to be somewhat apprehensive.:rant:

[Tomee450]

29. I guarantee is Honore had been

a white general, he would not be receiving the kind of criticism now being directed at him. He would have been considered forceful, in charge, and would not have been challenged. And the media was just being obnoxious. Why continue talking about Katrina when another deadly storm is on the way. Both Nagin and Honore indicated that they were making certain that past mistakes would not occur, yet the press kept hammering.

[faithfulcitizen]

30. Nagin? I think you mean Honore, and I disagree.

I don't care who is in charge, Nagin, Blanco, or Bush- the military doesn't decide what they're gonna do and not do.

Btw, Honore is black? LOL, I thought he was tan? :)

[Tomee450]

31. I did mean Honore( correction made)

but I stand by what I said. Even those people opposed to the military being in charge would not have reacted to a white general's forceful personality as they are to Honore's. He was quite the popular figure until Allen came on the scene and I know in my gut, the two non whites were supposed to take a back seat. I am reminded of the criticism hurled at Bryant Gumbel for being an agressive interviewer. He was called egotiscal and arrogant. Ted Koeppel behaved similarly and was called forceful and one of the best interviewers in television.

[butterfly77]

42. I agree about Honore...

but Nagin sometimes acts as though he dosen't give a damn. I have mixed feelings about Nagin. I was with him in the beginning but he keeps giving them something to criticize. Every show last night kept talking about the T-shirt he gave to the Admiral. They kept bringing up when he said people could come back, which I agree was to quick, with all of the germs and downed wires. I do think they are trying to say because he is black he is incompetent. All of this is to keep eyes off the Federal Incompetent of them all,Big Dummy B. No matter what, why did it take five days to get food and water to the people. Clinton lied nobody died!

[Tomee450]

44. But it appears to

be mostly people outside of NO that are speaking against Nagin, not the residents. I don't see where he has done anything outrageous but when someone has decided to scapegoat a person, anything that person does is criticized. So what if he gave Allen a T-shirt. It was light moment and nothing to make a big fuss over. I knew Nagin would be in for it when he when public in his criticism of Allen who he probably felt was trying to push him, the elected Mayor, into the background. And yes it might appear that he was asking people to come in early but for all we know the reports he was being given from people on the ground could have been far different than what we have been hearing from Allen and others. I think there is a reason why some people want to keep NO residents away. I am highly suspicious.

A few days after Bush started receiving strong criticism, the right wing spin machine went into action via radio,television, and print. Then Lou Dobbs who seems to not like people of color, started hammering on Nagin. The criticism got worse recently when Nagin dared to defy Allen.

[bluestateguy]

2. OK, so he shouldn't chew gum at a press conference

Fine.

I also don't care.

His city was destroyed. So I'll cut him a little slack on the gum chewing thing, even if it's not ideal behavior.

[Caoimhe]

3. I tend to agree

It doesn't quite equal picking your nose in public, like Bush..
now does it?

[snowbear]

8. I agree.... who the hell cares !?!?! Smack away Mayor!!

Jeesuz KoKo :wtf:

[mzteris]

4. he's just a guy

a REAL person - not, evidently, a professional politician - who has someone dress him and tell him exactly what to say - the sound byte du jour - and remind him to spit his gum out before going in public. There is no one telling him to "act like a regular guy" - (newsflash - definition of which is NOT a REAL "regular guy" but some nebulous amorphism!!!)

[David Dunham]

5. Nagin supported Bush in 2000 and opposed Blanco in 2002

Nagin gave Bush $1000 in 1999 for his 2000 race against Gore. Check out his contribution using www.fec.com . Nagin is a secret Repug.

[genius]

6. We need to keep them from taking our focus off Bush.

Nagin only recently re-registered as a Democrat so that he could win the Mayor's race. I don't particularly care for him. However, inclusion of Nagin in the criticim will distract people from the real villian.

[bahrbearian]

7. If Nagin is a Dem , how come he doesn't support Dem's?

[David Dunham]

10. Exactly right. He backed Bush against Gore and opposed Blanco

[genius]

11. He re-registered as a Dem to win election. It's an issue for another time.

No one will here the he's not a Democrat, any more than they heard it about the guy responsible for the butterfly ballot in Florida. That's why we need to defend him against Bush.

[Dr.Phool]

13. That was a woman in Florida

Theresa LaPore, and she kept trying to screw Dems anyway, tried to fix her re-election, and was thrown out of office.

[Dr.Phool]

12. Because he was a repuke until he filed to run for mayor

I guess only a Dem can win in N.O., so he switched parties for convenience.

[firefox]

9. Nagin was a lifelong Republican

He changed parties to increase his chances of election- http://tinyurl.com/9anwc Just because someone is a Democrat in no reason to think they are wonderful.

[Neshanic]

14. He is not the model of a leader any party would want.

let alone the mayor of a city that lies below sea level in the path of a hurricane. What struck me as amazing is was his almost glib attitude when interviewed two days before the hurricane hit. he said something to the effect of "yea...all this will be gone."

What people see in him as a leader or competent mayor is mystifying.

[butterfly77]

43. mystifying???

Where have you been for the last five years,have you looked at that incompetent nonleader in the White House.

[xray s]

15. Ray is first and foremost a corporation man

He ran for mayor on a platform to improve business in NOLA. I think that is where his mind is at. He will support BushCo if he thinks that is what's best for business.

A Sumner Redstone Democrat, if you will.

Personally, I really think this whole episode proves that having experience in the business world has absolutely nothing to do with being able run a city, or a country.

But, it really doesn't matter what I think, because I can't vote for Ray Nagin.

But I can vote for President of the US.

[daninthemoon]

16. Forget the gum. Why did he try to re-eopen the city already? Why

didn't he do more to evacuate? Hate to be down on a dem, but I can't stick up for this guy anymore. * gets the lion share of fault for the death of NO, but Nagin was also a BIG part.

[Marlie]

17. Isn't that exactly why we flame the Republicans or freepers?

Because they walk in goose step behind Bush or any Republican
leader no matter how bad they are. I personally think Nagin has
not done an admiral job. Republican or Democrat, we have the
right to express how we feel without getting flamed. We should not
become the freepers, who idolize Bush and the right no matter what
they do. God, I for one, perish the thought.

[Bumblebee]

18. I agree -- and I also think he is not behaving like a competent mayor.

Period.

[LittleClarkie]

20. I'm not that partisan. I'm not going to support him JUST because he's Dem

if he's also a fuckup. If he shares part of the blame for what happened re: Katrina, then he shall have it.

And the Dem question does indeed appear to be up in the air. Either way though, I ain't coverin' for his Demublican ass if he didn't do some things he was supposed to. That's not what I'm here for.

[Tomee450]

38. If you are not going to support

Nagin simply because he is a democrat, then why is Nagin supposed to support Blanco simply because SHE is a democrat. Just like you may have problems with Nagin, he might have problems with Blanco. And as far as him being former Republican, I seem to remember people around here being quite happy at the prospect of Lincoln Chafee, Chuch Hagel becoming democrats. These are people who have actually supported the Bush agenda yet on this very forum people were willing to accept them with open arms. Why the difference now? Is it that this black mayor refused to fade into the background and allow others to take over his city? I've seen people praise John McCain and I doubt that Nagin could ever have been the staunch Republican that is McCain.

[win_in_06]

21. I'll bet we've not seen the last of him politically.

The national name recognition alone will likely propel him to a House seat or Cabinet position.

[Tomee450]

22. Why the continued bashing

of Nagin? Some here seem to be more angry at him than at Blanco who also can be blamed for what happened in NO. I think because Nagin is black, does not come across as the polished white politician, is the reason why we hear such harsh criticism of him. Why is he supposed to be perfect. He has stated many times why he acted as he did yet many people reject what he has said and continue to affix blame. The same people criticized the Repubs when they said wait for an investigation yet here we are on this forum constantly blaming Nagin. It just turns my stomach because I feel there is a racial element involved. Black mayors are always put under the microscope. Some people expect them to not make the grade and are ready to leap on them for any perceived mistakes. They then become incompetents, thugs, morons. I see very few people talking against the white Blanco but a constant harping on the deficiencies of the black Nagin. And for those who despise Nagin for being a Republican, I have no doubt that you would never feel so strongly if a Republican became a Democrat. I never heard anyone say that they were suspicious of Jeffords when he became an Independent and voted mostly with the Democrats.

[wisteria]

24. I've heard he changed parties to run for mayor

he use to be a republican. I personally think he needs to start fading away and allow others to do their jobs. He seems like a publicity seeker.

[Tomee450]

27. So what, other politicians

have done the same thing and the criticism being hurled at Nagin was never heard. I think in the minds of some people, blacks are not expected to be as good as the white politician and such people seize anything they can which appears to supports their prejudiced views. I haven't seen anything done by Nagin that warrants the kind of attacks he is now receiving. It has gotten worse since he had the nerve to publicly criticize Mr. Allen, who took Brown's place. I've seen this attitude before. Nagin, the black man should not have the audacity to speak his mind. It's a sad reality that some things have not changed in this country.

[fujiyama]

26. I don't really have a strong opinion of him

At first I appreciated what he had to say. I could sense he was sincerely frustrated and pissed off with the fed's response.

But later on, like Blanco, he started kissing up to Bush in some ways. This is understandable to some extent, because Bush is a spiteful and petty man...Still, Nagin himself has a questionable party loyalty. He is new and endorsed Jindal over Blanco (which may be a reason why the two might not get along so well). He switched for the race and before that gave to Bush. And from what I heard he endorsed Kerry only after a long time.

Still, I think on the state level there have been problems that must be addressed. While they may have been played up, the tensions between him and the governor are also cause for concern to a certain extent.

Ultimately, he's really just a mayor and they have limited authority and power in such a major disaster. I would place over 99% of the blame and respnsibility on Bush, and out of that one percent, I'd probably distribute it among Blanco and Nagin.

[Tomee450]

28. But Nagin could have had a good reason

for not endorsing Blanco. I've read that Blanco has done things that did not endear her to the African American community. Blacks voted for her because they had no choice. Blanco is no liberal. In fact, she is rather conservative. And as for Kerry, I can state emphatically, that a lot of black people were not fond of him. In fact I had to convince several African American to vote for him and not stay home.

[Sgent]

32. Blanco

is a conservative Dixiecrat who won the race by appealing to racist votors in North LA. She is a member of a "political" class of LA that has been there for decades and has done nothing but been corrupt.

Jengal was a moderate R who is Indian (as in from India), had reached out to minority communities, and is generally considered to be fair, independent, and not prone to corruption/scandal.

I'm not saying Jengal was a great choice, but he wasn't a bad one either. Nagain was the poster child for cleaning up NOLA Corruption, and he endorsed a candidate that he felt spoke more to his values. The party affiliation non-withstanding.

[Tomee450]

37. Thanks for posting

this information about Blanco. I had read that many blacks in Louisiana only voted for her because she was the democratic candidate. Blanco had done things that showed she was not friendly to the black community. She showed her true colors during this tragedy when upon hearing about alleged looting, she immediately said the National Guard would be coming in and they were "locked and loaded", meaning they were ready to shoot. I certainly don't approve of stealing but some people were looting for survival. I did not like her attitude at all.

[fujiyama]

33. I agree on most points

From what I've heard, Blanco is hardly a democrat. She's quite conservative. Mostly a DINO, but I guess that's what is expected on La Dems.

I don't know to what extent race played a role in the governor's race.

Personally I don't really care about party loyalty in this situation. If Nagin was a republican and did a good job in handling the crisis, I'd make note of that. Frankly, I think those in higher places of power have greater responsibility and authority when it comes to major disasters which is why out of the small % state and local authorities take blame, I would place more with the governor than the mayor.

Granted even that little bit of blame is nothing compared to the responsibility the federal government had.

Also I'm kind of curious, what was it that turned blacks off Kerry? Granted, Kerry didn't really lose much among blacks (he only lost some 1 or 2% from what Gore got and this could be flawed in itself because of the problems in Ohio), but I also got the sense that many blacks found Kerry out of touch with their issues. It's unfortunate, because he has a strong record with civil rights overeall. Was there also some complaint with the number of AAs Kerry had on his staff?

[patrioticliberal]

34. More I hear of him

More I don't trust him or like him.

Blanco did what she could...I think the only mistake she made was trusting Bush would do his job for once.

[laugle]

35. Forget about the gum smacking..

whomever was responsible for not evacuating the sick, elderly and the poor should go!!

I don't give a damn what party they are in!!

People left to die in the fucking streets.

Don't get me started!!

[Tomee450]

36. Then why blame Nagin

He evacuated most of the city and got people to the Convention Center and the Superdome. He told them to bring several days supply of food and water and contrary to what has been said, there was food and water at the Superdome, just not enough. People were alive when they reached the dome and convention center. However, they ran out of food and were allowed to go for days without food and water and forced to live under horrible conditions. The federal government had access to all kinds of resources and vehicles which could have been used to help those people but did nothing for days. As someone said, the government could get to Afghanistan in 18 hours but not to NO? The Repubs are trying to make Nagin the villian and deflect blame from this administration. Nagin did not leave people to die, the federal government did that. Some people refused to leave their home for various reasons. Nagin cannot be blamed for that. Even now, some are refusing to evacuate and they are not all black people.

[npincus]

41. you're right... if Chimp had DONE HIS JOB and UNDERSTOOD

what was happening in his own country, he would have ordered FEMA to get food, water and HELP IMMEDIATELY. Thats his fucking job and no one else's.

Impeach the fuck.

[laugle]

46. I agree with your post, I just think there is

plenty of blame to go around. But what about the fact that General hospital was not evacuated yet the hospital across the way was?

Those people did not choose to stay, they were unable to leave due to age and sickness. I am very angry about that. Also, the nursing homes where many died or were euthanized.

Bush is certainly to blame for his incompetence and neglect. To not have dropped water and food to the people was a travesty.

I just hope we get an independent investigation....then we will know more.

[ladylibertee]

39. Nothing wrong with the man chewing gum.PLEEEEESSEEE

And let me add this....what Chimp spit on the White House lawn? which is worse? Hmm....Hmmm?

[Mairead]

40. Y'know, there's something that seems crazy about that thesis

And it's a VERY COMMON PROBLEM around here!

Nagin, until his campaign for mayor, was A REPUBLICAN! Nagin, in his behavior since election, STILL ACTS REPUBLICAN!

But he has a D label so everyone must support him?

That's barking mad!

[Tomee450]

45. So what if he was a republican

he is now a Democrat. It's funny that some democrats were ready to welcome Lincoln chafee and other Republicans if they had become democrats. They weren't going to question their loyalty. Why the double standard? It's perfectly acceptable for one not to support a politician with whom one disagrees, even if that politician is of the same party. Don't you think African American democrats should also be able to choose whom they wish to support. Should they be expected to support a democrat with whom they disagree? I think not. Nagin in no way has acted like a Republican and it ridiculous for people to distort his actions that way. I've seen nothing from him but deep concern for NO and its citizens and very few have complained about him.

The way Nagin is being treated reminds me of what most black people have been taught almost from birth: we are expected to make no mistakes and be twice as good as white person, and even then don't be surprised if the road is difficult.