Reid is an ineffective minority leader

[realFedUp]

He hasn't been able to hold the Dems together on
any vote, losing the most important ones and is
too hesitant to use the filibuster.

[UrbScotty]

1. Are you kidding? He's an improvement over Daschle.

Daschle would be very weak if he were still in.

For starters, Reid will oppose Roberts, something I doubt Daschle would do.

[realFedUp]

2. not much.....nt

and I think Tom's learned a few lessons....

[blondeatlast]

4. Yeah, we'd really be kicking ass with Daschle.

:sarcasm: :eyes:

[UrbScotty]

9. Would Daschle call Bush&Co. "drunk with power"

...like Reid did?

Reid, of course, has also been tough when it comes to the filibuster, Bush’s lousy hurricane response, and John Bolton.

[genius]

20. Bush likes him better than Daschle. He forced Jay Bybee on the 9th Circ

Daschle supported that extremist as a favor to Reid. Reid lied to his constituents by telling them he was opposed to Yucca Mountain. Then he voted to fund Yucca Mountain. He's lost every fight or backed Bush. The Democrats are 0 and Bush is 1000 under Reid.

[0007]

35. Daschle is not the issue here!

I've stayed with Harry way to long. Tis time to give him the pitch.

[sandnsea]

3. Anybody actually read DU?

Read what folks from the south and rural parts of this country say? Uhm, support the death penalty, against immigration, support tax cuts, personally against abortion. Dang near Republicans. And we wonder why midwest and southern Dems vote the way they do? I don't, and I don't blame Reid for it either.

[electropop]

5. It's his job to keep the cats herded.

The Pukes do it, despite the fact that I'm sure many Northeastern Pukes are pretty nervous about some of the more over-the-top insanity.

[sandnsea]

6. Shall we bribe and strong arm?

Some of their tactics have bordered on illegal, shall we do that?

Again, why do we blame the politicians when they're just representing what their constituents want and we can see evidence of it any day of the week on DU. People don't like the way these politicians vote, then the place to change it is in the districts they represent. And it's the people who live there who are going to have to put that change into action.

[electropop]

10. We can no longer afford to be polite little candy-asses.

I don't think we should cross the legality line, but this is now war. And yes, we should also have major, ongoing efforts to educate the populace on the real meanings of our positions and issues. We need to stand for something: that is what the public demands, more than precise conformity with every one of every individual's views. Reid, Pelosi, and Dean should be meeting on a regular basis to plot the spending of money on huge issues ad campaigns.

[sandnsea]

14. If you don't know by now

You never will. Some people are just chronic malcontents. It's all out there. Why don't you know? That's YOUR fault. Why don't you take the responsibility to educate yourself on the Dem issues that are on the front burner?

[electropop]

19. It's easy enough to scold the public for ignorance...

but that won't do anything except drive them away. We need real outreach.

[sandnsea]

26. I'm scolding YOU

YOU are the one who doesn't know what's going on. Don't presume the public doesn't know, you might be surprised to find out they know more than you do. And just disagree. An idea that never occurs to far too many "open-minded" "enlightened" "progressives".

[Wordie]

22. Yeah...some people don't seem to realize we're the MINORITY party.

We lost bigtime last election. So those that remain standing are doing the best they can, imho. Choosing battles is important.

[realFedUp]

7. Supporting legislation to get other party's voters loses your base

The base, that goes door to door, that gives all we
can in small donations, who write letters to editors,
who call our representatives, who sign petitions,
keep up with current news and Internet sites.

We want what's right in this country, not continue
supporting Democratic leaders who vote for the wrong
just to keep their jobs.

[sandnsea]

12. Did you read MY post?

Who said anything about supporting legislation to get OTHER party's voters???

I said, do you read DU? Everything I listed is what southern and rural DUers say. I've read just as much backassward tax and school and economic shit from many southern DUers as I have from any fundy Republican.

Can't blame Reid because people have been bamboozled by 25 years of Reaganism.

[sadiesworld]

24. What do these positions have to do with Reid's failure

to get a party line vote on the bankruptcy bill and on CAFTA?

[sandnsea]

30. Some DUers supported those too

A DUer who pretended to be against the bankruptcy bill told me privately they supported it. They knew people with million dollar homes who had filed bankruptcy and were glad it was going to be stopped. And it seems to me southerners and Texans are most inclined to believe the right wing spin on these issues, with midwest states coming in a close second. These people start voting a straight party line, and they'll be out on their cabooses. There's a reason Republicans can do it, their constituents believe Republican economic policy is correct. When Democrats manage to win with those same constituents, they can't start voting like Jim McDermott if they want to get elected again.

[randr]

8. The vote on Roberts rises above all others

A filibuster is not necessary. Party unity IS. The possibility of a few republicans voting against Roberts is real. A united Democratic Party would send a powerful message to not only the base but also to republicans on the fence.
If the Democrats to not rise to the occasion and stand for SOMETHING they will be looking for new leadership and many will be replaced in the next election.
A no vote across the board will send an important message to the American people: GB is incapable of selecting anyone for any possition.

[Frances]

11. Where do you live?

I remember listening to candidates for the House of Representatives debate soon after I moved from Alabama to Massachusetts. The most conservative candidate in Mass. would have been called a communist in Alabama.

No matter what we at DU think, the candidates don't get elected if they are totally against what their constituents are for. Politics doesn't work that way.

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. Where did you get the idea that possibility of a few republicans voting

against Roberts is real? When has any Republican Senator even hinted that they may oppose Roberts?

[sandnsea]

15. Over 60% like Roberts

Did you know that? Roberts polls better than Bush, Cheney, Congress. He's got the best numbers in the country right now.

[randr]

17. There have been numerous articles

showing displeasure among the far right over Roberts. If the dems could hold strong the decision would rest on the reps getting their house in order and I suspect there could be a fight among them placing the issue entirely in their court.
I really believe at this point the dems need to draw a line in the sand and not accept one more B* appointee until an investigation of the qualifications of his appointments are brought out in the open.
I happen to live in the very conservative Western Colorado and have many red-neck acquaintances and friends, a conservative crowd opposed to a faith based group. To hear them talk they feel that they have been shafted big time and they hate * and especially Cheney.
I would invite anyone to come on out to Crawford, Colorado and sit in at the Crawford Country Store morning coffee group. We don't even come close to berating * and gang like these cowboys do.

[sandnsea]

18. Roberts polls 60%

I don't care if some on the right are in the 40% that don't like him. 60% do. So despite everything, the majority of Americans are not applying the Republican ideological agenda onto everything Bush does. They can hate Bush and Cheney all they want. But if they don't understand that this has been a movement for years and years and that they're all the same, then they'll put a different standard on each new person. That nonpartisan, vote for the individual, bullshit. That's what people have done with Roberts and they've decided he's a nice man and they like him. Again, even some on DU have said they like him. It's amazing how many people still don't get it. Can't blame the party for that.

[Wordie]

23. Do you really believe the far RW would vote w/ Dems against Roberts???

That just isn't gonna happen! They will bitch and moan, but in the end those far right congresspeople will vote with the Repubs.

So, even if every single Dem voted against Roberts, we would still lose this one. And if we fillibuster, with most of the country convinced he is a decent nominee, we will lose the political capital we have as a result of the disasterous handling of Katrina by Bush and the increasing awareness that the Iraq war is a quagmire. Hasn't anyone ever thought of that? What do you want to spend that capital on, a lost cause or something that might make a difference?

I really do wish that there had been more in the media about why Roberts is such a bad candidate, but much of the worries about him have to do with subtle legal questions, so it may have been just too difficult to get the point across in a commercial or something of that nature.

[TheVirginian]

38. Far right-wing groups...

Far right-wing groups are upset that Roberts hasn't promised to turn over the country to Pat Robertson. None of the current GOP Senators are that far right. Expect, and bet your bottom dollar, on all 55 Republican Senators voting to confirm Roberts.

[BlueManDude]

16. You assume the Democrats are a "party"

They are a collection of individuals who have roughly the same viewpoint.

The GOP functions as much more of a cohesive "parliamentary" party.

[butterfly77]

21. wimpy...

they need someone stronger

[Idioteque]

25. We can't filibuster everything!

I wouldn't vote for Roberts but a filibuster would be outrageous. When we have a Democratic President and a Democratic Senate, I don't want their nominees filibustered. Filibusters are good in extreme circumstances (Pricilla Owen, Janice Rogers Brown, Miguel Estrada etc) but when the Republicans control the White House and the Senate, they have the right to have some of their conservative nominees confirmed. If everybody filibustered everything they disagreed with nothing would ever get done.

[sunnystarr]

28. You're absolutely right

Battles have to be chosen carefully with enough ammunition that the majority of Americans can appreciate the fight.

[Raiden]

29. Right on!

[realFedUp]

31. This is a Supreme Court nominee, not a Cabinet position

The Democrats have no tools left but a filibuster
and it shouldn't be in a lockbox blocked by 14 wimps.
If you think Republicans wouldn't be using it at
every turn when they are the minority, think again.

A filibuster is a mere tool against a future of
diminished civil rights among other things.

[TheFarseer]

36. I agree completely

I don't think he's an extreme case either. He says he will follow precident. I don't know what some of the other people on here think senate dems should do. Should Joe Biden stand up and yell "liar liar, pants on fire"?

[win_in_06]

27. I couldn't agree more.

[WI_DEM]

32. ok, and who would be an effective minority leader?

and hold all of these democrats together? The Democratic party is a big tent party and has many different factions. It always has been and that is why Will Rogers famously said, "I don't belong to an organized political party--I'm a Democrat." Reid has been a huge improvement over the ineffective Daschle.

[Ignacio Upton]

33. Reid has been mixed

Pros: Stuck up for us on Social Security privatization (would not allow anyone to defect) and the issue of the Nuclear Option (the "Gang of 14" in both parties is responsible for giving us that deal.)

Cons: Voted for Bankrupcy Bill and allowed Lehy and others to vote for Roberts. Even if Roberts is going to be confirmed, showing our numerical displeasure in the Senate still says that we care about what Bush does to America

Overall, I think he is better than Daschle in terms of rhetoric, and on keeping Dems together on the issue of Social Security phaseout. However, he can do more.

[seabeyond]

34. ineffective minority leader.... NO he's NOT n/t

[AngryAmish]

37. Leadership in the Senate is very hard

I read this book about LBJ called "Master of the Senate." (I recommend it very much. It was one of the 5 best books I read over the last five years.) It gives a real good history of the Senate. It is very hard to lead a party in the Senate because of the tenure rules and there is constant Prisoner's Dilemma-type opportunities there.

[Totally Committed]

39. I do not feel he has been ineffective as Minority Leader, just not

the dynamo of balls and guts that's needed. He's not an attack dog. We need the human equivalent of a pit bull in there calling the Republicans out for their dishonesty and devastation. We also need soemone not so ideologically moderate.

Ted Kennedy would be ideal, imo, and so would Barbara Boxer. They don't take sh*t from anyone.

TC