What can we believe about how far the Bush Administration would go?

[genius]

Guantanamo and the Abu Gharaib scandals seem beyond the brink of believability. But they are true.

The nomination of someone connected with Operation Rescue is not believable and even more unbelievable would be the idea that Leahy would vote for such a nominee. But it's true.

Downing Street - ridiculous but true

Valerie Plame intentionally leaked by someone at White House. Not possible. But it's true.


Bush refusing to meet with the mother of a dead serviceman. No likely but true.

FEMA delays response to New Orleans. What a conspiracy theory. Unfortunately it's true.

We need to keep an open mind about the Bush Administration. How low these guys will sink seems beyond what is likely or credible. We may not have seen the lowest low yet.

[Tace]

1. Completely Beyond My Ability To Comprehend

Really, part of their secret to suceess is to be so craven as to slip under the radar screen of decent people.

None of us want to believe what we have witnessed. And, they're counting on that fact. It's all part of their deadly game.

[Poll_Blind]

2. Bush would do an Operation Northwoods. In my mind, no doubt about it.

He's that far gone. You may learn more about Operation Northwoods here.

PB

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[renie408]

10. By Tom Flocco....

I am getting the impression that this is not generally considered a reliable source.

[genius]

13. His emails are among the more credible.

[The Magistrate]

29. Your Impression Is Accurate, Ma'am

Flocco is a low comedian masquerading as a journalist, doubtless in some sort of "performance art" project. The original source for this story is Heneghan and Skolnick, notable loons and confabulators, the latter certainly in need of psychiatric intervention. His cable access show used to have as its frequent focus the tie-ins to international affairs of the Village government of Cicero, and its personal persecution of him for exposing same....

[Lithos]

32. Definitely

He's far from reliable and uses similar tactics of the tabloids in story creation to garner attention and money.

L-

[samdogmom]

3. You are scarring me. You make too much sense! n/t

[ToolTex]

5. They will do whatever it takes to keep power.

People that think the US has traditions or understandings that everyone will play by to keep democracy functioning amuse me. These bastards have all the trump cards and all the firepower. They rule. Polls don't matter now. Elections don't matter now. They rule. Get used to it. Period

[VPStoltz]

6. Bush stole two elections? Not in our democracy.

Sorry, but it's true!

[ToolTex]

12. Huh? What does that mean?

If elections are stolen how does any bit of democracy remain? How do you unseat criminals who can steal elections? (Unless they decide to be replaced, which is not likely). If they get all the power for just an instant, then they own the power. Just try to block them in the Senate. Filibuster, and they remove the filibuster. Simple. They win. You don't like the outcome in a manipulated election. Sue the bastards. Whoops, they packed the court. Sorry. We lose!

Hitler got power legally in a country with 1000 years of free tradition. And the NAZI only held power for 13 years!

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

14. That statement was like one Senator Byrd made

and was attacked by the right wing for it.

The point that H##**^&^& obtained power "legally," much like *, by changing the rules and laws.

Truth.

[VPStoltz]

18. I agree completely. I guess my utter comtempt for Shrub and his

ilk did not come through my pithy comment.

[ShockediSay]

7. Keep an eye on the national debt

It went from no debt to a debt of TRILLIONS since Bush took over. Reportedly 2 billion a year is what the taxpayers (those of us who really pay taxes) are having to cover JUST FOR INTEREST on this debt.

BTW, do Wall Street firms get a cut in our treasury bill/national debt funding offerings? I don't know how that end of it works.

[renie408]

8. Well...

I just read some posts that indicate that you think they are behind 9/11 and brutally murdered a bunch of little kids and innocent people to cover it up, so I reckon you think they will go pretty far.

Me, I am not quite there. I figure they are opportunists who will do what they can to exploit a situation, but they have not really showed me that they are really great planners. They were not smart enough to get WMD into Iraq to justify the war, they are fucking up Iraq pretty royally, they screwed the pooch on Katrina...I think they are dilletantes, not masterminds.

Also, all the stuff you list seems really possible and not all that amazing to me. It sure as hell ain't up there with faking a 757 smacking into the Pentagon, that is for damned sure. And if Rove was smart enough to pull off 9/11 with only you and your buddies realizing it was them...couldn't he have found a better way to get Valerie Plame's name out there? Like some way that did not involve..oh, him doing it himself?

Look, either they are greedy, opportunistic, incompetent idgets or they are ruthless criminal masterminds. No...let me guess. They fuck up some things to distract from the fact that they are smart enough to orchestrate the 9/11 attacks without virtually anyone figuring it out and with no actual proof. Cause if you had actual proof, we would not be having this conversation.

[Cosmocat]

22. Read Senator Byrd's book ...

NOW, congress has been complicit though laziness and greed, but this admin has made a DRAMATIC assault on our system of government ...

I would not go so far as to say they planned 9-11 ... BUT ...

* We know that they had warning put on their desks just prior to the attacks that they TOTALLY ignored ... AT BEST, total incompetence ... At best ...
* You have a president who did business with Bin Laden's family, a president who makes no bones about his loyalty to those who he does business with ...
* We know that the on 9-12, the only planes in this country that were in the air were planes that flew Bin Laden relatives and other Saudies out of the country ...
* We know that nearly all the 9-11 attackers were Saudi's, non were Iraqis, but we now are in a military occupation of Iraq ...
* FOUR FRIGGEN YEARS LATER, and UBL is still on the loose ... THINK ABOUT THAT ...

Again, I don't know that they PLANNED 9-11, but they SURE AS HECK were in bed with the man who was behind it ...

We know that this admin jacked up the terror levels for a whole year leading up to this last election ... We know that this admin has utilized 9-11 to the fullest in its nonstop movement to move power to the white house, to cloak itself in manner that it has NO accountability, and to put down any dissent ... We know that Iran is next on their hit list, and that they have already made plans to use tactical nuclear weapons on Iraq ... All they need is an excuse ...

It isn't much of a stretch from where they are, to the point where they would stage or enable an attack on our soil ...

[Fire Walk With Me]

25. Don't forget record oil prices, for years already, and more to come.

Have the Saudis and BushCo have Enron'd the oil market? Let it creep up slowly, your friends and contributors make $$$, and there's nothing to be done about it. The company store. "Without us, you'd have no damn gas."

Google for "enron planned schemes in advance" and note how few published this story about Bush's number 1 campaign contributor.

[Cosmocat]

27. Preaching to the choir ...

Among the countless reasons that it was clear as day that this guy was a disaster waiting to happen as a presidential ... God, I hate to even call him a candidate ... was, of course, his oil ties ...

JUST WTF were people thinking when the voted for him ???

[Fire Walk With Me]

33. With all of his oil history and foreign oil ties, it was denial on a

massive scale, evidently. Electing foxes into the henhouse. Check the man's resume! Come ON!

Although it's simplifying things, I wonder if Freepers voted for Bush out of denial of the facts, or because they like the kind of crap BushCo have brought down. And will continue to bring.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

9. We shouldn't kid...

...ourselves, these are really bad people and they play for keeps. If you're willing to steal two presidential elections, start an illegal war for oil, and arrest, imprison and torture people on suspicion, completely disregarding the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, then it's a pretty safe bet you'll do ANYTHING you deem necessary to hang onto the reigns of power. Blackwater Security isn't on U.S. soil to throw tupperware parties, people---they're here to begin the process of eliminating political dissent. Bad moon rising.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

11. There is very little they will not do

Like bug their own office to make it look like the other party's candidate did it.

The list is way too long, goes way back. These folks have been practiced at the art of deception since back in the Nixon Watergate era.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

15. Nuclear pre-emptive strike

For several years now, the official doctrine has been "we will strike anywhere at anytime for any reason -- or no reason at all."

* has said he views nukes as being "just another option in the arsenal." That puts them in the same category as hand grenades. There is no such thing as a "bunker-buster" bomb. It's a tactical nuclear weapon.

I was somewhat surprised that he didn't start off "shock and awe" with a bang. He could have turned some innocent village to glass and claimed that WMDs had been found there. I even had the town picked out; close enough to Baghdad so they'd see the flash, and near enough to the eastern border so the fallout would drift over Teharan.

THAT's how low I think these assholes will go. And you know what? I think if they did it the people of the U.S. -- hell, the world -- would let them get away with it.

[Cosmocat]

23. YES ...

This is my greatest fear ... These guys are just ITCHING to drop nukes on Iran ... I mean it, ITCHING ...

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheVirginian]

17. "Credible evidence..."

Yeah, I saw that Flash video, too. It was on a list of links, right before a guy skateboarding off a truck, and right after two chicks making out.

[HuskerDU]

26. Even if you don't believe LIHOP/MIHOP it is awfully

scary that any yahoo with a plane could just slam into our military headquarters without fighter jets scrambling to shoot the offender down.

It is nothing if not suspicious.

[TankLV]

21. When you knock out almost half the structural columns in the building

it is easy to explain how a plane could do it - just read for a change instead of flying into fantasy land.

All of the EXTERIOR FACADE acted as a "tube" to support the structure. The only other support was the inter CORE at the very center of the building.

THERE WERE NO INTERIOR COLUMNS - that was the big "selling" point for the building - a column free interior that lent itself readily to any variation of office layouts.

And they were built to withstand the impacts of WIND loads and SEISMIC forces, not "airplane impact". The fact that these criteria more than met the impact conditions from the largest commercial airplane in exisitence at the time of design and construction was just a happy cooincidence!

We do highrise buildings all the time all over the place - AND NOT ONE TIME HAVE THERE BEEN ANY CONSIDERATIONS OF DESIGNING FOR SOME IMAGINARY TERRORIST IMPACT FROM AN AIRPLANE! It just isn't done!

We could design and construct any building to last forever and withstand anything - but then they'd all be windowless pyramids that cost a fortune!

I'm sick of people who spew nonsense and who know absolutely NOTHING of what they are talking about! You loose credibility on the other statements that otherwise may have serious merit.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[windbreeze]

19. What was it Johnson supposedly said...AFTER

Kennedy was killed....???? If the American people knew the truth, there would be chaos in the streets (I didn't quote, because I am not sure of the exact words he used)....so what makes anyone want to believe that this current bunch isn't capable of being complicit in 9/11..LIHOP????, or believe there is NO truth to the fact that some people are simply EVIL, and will DO ANYTHING to get what they want??Even to committing treasonous acts against this country..(Plame)(Illegal War in Iraq)

Supposedly "terrorists" (Saudi terrorists, by the way) attacked us on 9/11...OK...so who has this gov't targeted since???
Afghanistan
Iraq
The American people as a whole...

anyone who dissents with their views...our houses can be searched w/o cause, we can be held against our will, we can be denied due process, and held forever, w/o recourse...our jobs have been outsourced, hurricanes have proven we are in over our heads, and that our own gov't can't protect or provide for us in time of need...people have lost their jobs, homes, their pensions have been stolen..hell, elections have been stolen, and our country is in debt for the next 100 years or more..how about electro magnetic weaponry? and don't tell me it isn't so, I watched a special about it, on Discovery...
Have we heard about the Council on Foreign Relations? PNAC...short of a "New Pearl Harbor"... NWO? Operation Northwoods, and how many other special ops plans we don't know about??? (people working within and for the current admin were aware of that plan) Do we know our banking system is owned by foreigners, since the early/mid 1900's....Are we aware that according to the 16th amendment, Income Tax is an illegal tax? Hey, but they only get away with what we allow them too, right? The Coast Guard, and National Guard were our, the citizens of this country's, protection against foreign/domestic enemies within our own borders, and that is WHY the States supposedly have control over them...oh wait, the gov't just recently took the Coast Guard and put it under HS...and are trying to federalize the National Guard also...which we must NOT allow...why are mercenaries/militias patrolling streets in NOLA???
Yet, supposedly, it's all tinfoil hat conspiracies??? I seriously doubt it...and I think this bunch is the most dangerous group of people ever to come into power....and I also believe our "downfall" as a democracy, has been plotted and planned for decades...maybe even a century or two...remember, Bush saying...It would be fun to have a dictatorship, as long as I'm the dictator....This group did NOT come into this much power accidentally, and if they are NOT stopped...we haven't seen the worst yet...yes, I believe EVIL is alive and well...and conspiracy theories will abound, as long as the TRUTH is not known..
windbreeze

[TankLV]

20. I am PROUD to say I've CLOSED my mind long ago about these WAR CRIMINALS!

There is absolutely NOTHING left to remain "open minded" about!

They are LIARS!

They are WAR CRIMINAL!

They are GREEDY!

They are SELFISH!

They are HYPOCRITES!

There is nothing vague about it.

[atommom]

28. I wouldn't put much past them, which is why I found

this little item disturbing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2112262&mesg_id=2112262

It's upsetting to trust your own government so little that you can't give them the benefit of the doubt, but that's my state of mind now.

[WinkyDink]

30. How deep is the ocean?

Their depths are lower.
And we "misunderestimate" at our peril.
LA's Martial Law was practice.

[grasswire]

31. here's what they will do

They will destroy the American economy in order to provide openings for vast profits for certain entities and further state control. They're already at least five years into that plan.

Doubt this? Go get a copy of the October Harper's and read Lewis Lapham's essay. Especially the last part. His premise is that America accepted fascism after the end of WW2 and will do a better job of it than Germany did. Fascist America doesn't need to burn books because a campaign to destroy public schools and despise intellectuals is already completed. Fascist America doesn't need to murder dissenters to teach intimidation because dissent is largely composed of liberals talking to each other through obscure journals and wondering if America <i>will become</i> a fascist state. Fascist America doesn't need to seize control of industries because Americans are already trained to "protect the brand" and serve and fear the power of industrial elites. All that's left is to destroy the economy. And that's working pretty well.

It's an incredibly pointed and enlightening essay. Read it. Watch for the squadrons of motorcycles next.