Okay, just got irked by Peace Protest speaker/Organizer Jello Biafra

[HardWorkingDem]

Why is it that when there are protests like this, protesters often times throw in pet projects that have nothing to do with the protest?

Biafra just brought up Mumia Abu Jamal (a black, former taxi cab driver who murdered a police officer years ago). I have read extensively about this case and it is my opinion this man murdered this police officer.

My point is not to start a Jamal innocence/guilty debate, but to ask why throw an incendiary topic in this protest instead of talking more about Gold Star mothers and troops and things like that and keep pet projects that have nothing to do with this away from it.

[fiveleafclover]

1. If an issue matters so much to somebody,

they should start their OWN protest instead of trying to piggy-back on another protest. When there are too many voices saying too many different things, it just waters down everybody's message.

[ret5hd]

3. who's protest is it?

who applied for the permits? who organized it? who invited jello biafra to speak?

i'll bet the answer is all the same.

in other words, (and not just picking on you,fiveleafclover) organize your own rally/protest/march and feel free to only invite speakers you agree with.

[fiveleafclover]

4. I see what you're saying

You have a good point. I still don't like it though. The crowd tends to get restless, too, when the subject changes with each speaker.

[HardWorkingDem]

6. Then let him have a Pro-Mumia-cop killer protest....

to get his point across. Like I said, I know a great deal about this case - this man MURDERED a police officer - and this is not the time to speak up for this man when it is sold as an anti-war protest.

[ret5hd]

10. ......yaaaawwwwnnn......

go bitch at the people that put up the effort to organize the thing. they obviously wanted to hear what he had to say...and guess what? IT WAS THEIR DIME!

[ProudToBeLiberal]

14. perhaps you should go to sleep?

[John Q. Citizen]

2. Next time go and speak yourself and say what you want...

I'm just glad 250000+ hit the streets.

I'm sure not all of them are saying what I would say, but goddess bless 'em all!

[salin]

5. It would make more sense to me if they spoke to the main issue - and then

in a couple of sentences highlight their issue of concern and point people to where they could get more information. Point is I imagine they feel that they will find folks who are sympathetic to their cause - and thus that this is a good opportunity to promote - but in the end the message is a mishmash. Keep to the focus, I agree, and if need by - make short mention of own issue - and point to an organization or website where people can learn more (on their own time.)

[lumpy]

7. I agree

This is supposed to be a peace rally. Voices should be in unison. Poor orchestration when the notes are not sychronized. We should be singing the same song. I realize that this gives an opportunity for people to be heard, but it can turn people off.

[lateo]

8. Yeah because we all know the justice system in America is so perfect.

Why bother bringing it up when you have a platform?

[okieinpain]

40. anti war, or bad justice system. how about animal rights, yeah that

is how you get people focused. you put in about 20 or 30 things that are not related. yep, that will work like a champ.

[npincus]

9. Thank you... agree 100%.

I was embarrassed by the majority of ANSWER speakers I watched on C-SPAN. What a load of ammo they gave to our enemies, and the mainstream we are trying to encourage to grow balls.

Reminds me of the time I went to protest KKK members that were holding a "rally" in downtown NYC, and there was surrounded by many far-left fringe loonies holding "Free Mumia" signs and chanting "Free Mumia!"... I was pissed at all these irrelevant issues being protested which had nothing to do with the fact that we were there to protest KKK vermin that had invaded our fair city. And, I for one think Mumia is a FRAUD and a MURDERER, and was not on board with these people at all. Anyway, it seems like some impassioned loudmouths will exploit any occassion where they have an audience to spout their cause, whether or not it is relevant to the objective of the event.

This kind of crap only marginalizes us and does not attract mainstream folks who by now, should be coming on board because we are right.

[Skittles]

13. HEY

MALE BODY PARTS ARE *NOT* REQUIRED FOR COURAGE.

[npincus]

29. sorry if the non-PC remark offended...

I'm a gal, by the way. And courageous!

[ProudDad]

11. I've probably studied Mumia's case as much as you

and he was railroaded.

There are lots of issues of peace and justice. They are all interrelated. They boil down to class and race and economics (capitalism). It's PERFECTLY appropriate to book speakers who are all on the side of peace and justice at a Peace and Justice rally.


By the by, you very easily could have started a Jamal innocence/guity debate by voicing your ad-hominum opinion about whether Abu-Jamal killed a rogue cop or not...

[HardWorkingDem]

17. I doubt it.....

this man was not railroaded at all and the final kernel as to his guilt or innocence came a couple of years ago when after continuing to deny he murdered Daniel Faulkner he fired his attorneys because one of them wrote about wanting to pursue a self-defense strategy.

Not only that, the people who support this man have continually lied and misrepresented forensic evidence. For example, one attempt to cloud the forensic evidence was the attempt to claim the bullet from D. Faulkner could not have been fired from a 38 because the pathologist report said it was a 45 caliber. Well, anyone with a lick of sense about forensic evidence knows that many times forensic pathologists are not firearm experts and lack the expertise to say what caliber a bullet is and this is something the pathologist later admitted.

The fabrication goes on and on.

But back to my original point - this topic had no bearing on stopping the Iraq War and will just allow the right to continue to hammer those against this war as "pro-cop" killing defenders.

[ProudDad]

31. Where have you heard that?

"But back to my original point - this topic had no bearing on stopping the Iraq War and will just allow the right to continue to hammer those against this war as "pro-cop" killing defenders."

I haven't heard any of the right-wing assholes dissing us for "supporting" a new trial for Mumia (a New Trial instead of the Kangaroo court that convicted him -- get it?) but I HAVE heard them dissing Cindy Crawford and any of us who believe in a World without War.

Would you disavow her? How about us?

How about Air America. Get rid of that too 'cause the righties can "use it against us"?

Fuck the right-wing assholes. Anything they complain about is probably something we should be MORE concerned with defending. I don't think we should be running scared 'cause something's "ammunition" for them to use to placate their tiny minority of ditto-heads.


(PS: how about judge sabo's unconstitutional antics. how about prosecuters suborning witnesses? How about suppressing exculpatory evidence? Mumia fired his lawyers because he's fuckin' innocent and didn't want them to plead guilty for him. Duh!!

We can agree to disagree about the facts of the case but I would submit that holding up his case as a typical, capital kangaroo court used against a strong black man in order to silence him is business as usual in racist amerika is a relevant subject at these rallies. That's why his case shows up at rallies for Peace and Justice!)

[HardWorkingDem]

35. Right...

Here is a site that discounts many of the Mumia myths. I suggest you read some of it and then come back and tell me about some of this "exculpatory evidence". I'd love to hear it.


http://www.danielfaulkner.com/mythsdir.html

Next you will claim the gun wasn't Jamal's and the police fake the registering of the gun in his name or threw it down by his side.

The passion involved in this case is admirable, but there are so many factors that render the facts questionable. It's like the OJ Simpson jurors when it was pointed out that the jurors in that trial HAD to go back home after the trial.

I would imagine much of that same sort of thought occurred in the time after this murder (that's why many police interviews of crucial witnesses are being taped - because by the time the trial comes around the witnesses change their testimony or lie about it).

Also, I might be wrong, but in the interviews I have read with Jamal, not once has he denied killing Faulkner. But like I said, that might not be correct.

[Silverhair]

12. Because he had a mike and that is probably his real first issue.

Stuff like that causes a protest to lose it's focus and leaves it open to the charge from the RW's as "being the same old crowd of loonies that we always see."

And I agree - Jamal is a really bad choice as a poster boy. He is guilty.

[omega minimo]

15. "that is probably his real first issue."

If you don't know who he is, check out his spoken word work.

http://www.alternativetentacles.com

Seems all of DU would benefit from a crash course in Jello.

[omega minimo]

16. It's too bad you are bad-mouthing a great speaker like Jello at DU

He has dedicated his life to the issues that are discussed on DU 24/7. He is very talented and very entertaining, as well as smart and well-informed.

What did Jello actually say? You were so annoyed at the mere mention of Mumia that that's all you remember?

DU could learn a lot from Biafra's work. Maybe if you listen to some of his spoken word work, you can come back here and apologize.

http://www.alternativetentacles.org

[HardWorkingDem]

18. My point was...

that there are many of us that detest Bush and his war, but there is also a time for his sort of comment about Mumia Abu-Jamal and this was not it.

In my opinion and after quite a bit of study, I believe Jamal murdered Ofc. Daniel Faulkner and to bring the man who murdered a police officer up in this forum was incorrect.

If he wants to fight for Jamal, then let him set up a different protest for that purpose.

[omega minimo]

19. Proving once again

that you don't know how to listen

[HardWorkingDem]

21. Then why don't you explain...

your point with out insulting people....

[omega minimo]

25. Yer stuck on yer point

"What did Jello actually say? You were so annoyed at the mere mention of Mumia that that's all you remember?"

That's okay, I think you answered.....

[robre]

27. Jello's music is an affront to the word music. Sorry.

I'd rather listen to Bad Religion if I wanted poltics in my music.

[omega minimo]

30. He does spoken word albums as well as music

Please note that I referred (twice on this thread) DUers to Jello's SPOKEN WORD WORK.

http://www.alternativetentacles.com

Highly recommended. :hi:

[maxsolomon]

36. wow

bad religion would not exist without the DKs.

go dig out "fresh fruit for rotting vegetables" & rethink that comment.

[HardWorkingDem]

24. How did I bad mouth the guy?

I just typed that as a person who believes Jamal murdered a police officer, that this was not the proper forum for these sort of comments. (He went on some sort of rant about the inequality and injustice found in the criminal justice system and how Jamal has been fighting to get off death row and that even through injustice he still sits there.)

I would have much rather heard more mothers and fathers and family members speak rather than listen to something that was off topic.

[zulchzulu]

20. I like Jello

But...

Did he bring up how there's STILL no difference between the Dems and the Repugs? Is he still for Nader? Do his bandmates still not talk to him?

Jello...Jamalhead chicks don't like guys...you ain't gettin' laid tonight, buddy.

[calmblueocean]

22. Message discipline. It's why Repubs win.

Staying on message and refusing to be driven from it is one of the secrets of success that the right wing understands and the left wing still does not. How long will it take?

When you have a war protest but you throw in a few words on every other issue while you're at it, you make the war only as important as the least important issue you brought up. You dilute the message, and you dilute the power of the protest.

Good protests are focused. Bad protests are about everything.

Nothing against Jello, who is a good man and has fought the good fight for a long time. But everyone can use a little reminding.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

23. Exactly.

You don't see tax cuts being advocated at anti-abortion rallies or vice versa.

As bad as their ideas are, at least the RW know how to focus on them.

[VOX]

43. Nail-head. Hammer. Bang.

Well said, calmblueocean! :thumbsup:

[TreasonousBastard]

26. ANSWER does this all the time...

Lynn Stewart, Pam Africa, a LaRoucheite or two... And never forget old Ramsey Clark, who may not even know where he is any more.

At an anti-war rally, why not bring up Leonard Peltier or Mumia? Or Palestinians? Or whales and fur coats?

Why not? Because it dilutes the message.

It pretty much drives a lot of us crazy, even if we agree with a particular cause. Crazier if we don't. They've got a lot of people in one spot, and a lot of groups sponsored the rally, so everyone gets to say his or her piece, relevant or not. That's part of the deal organizing the march and rally.

They're so greedy for 30 seconds of camera time or a few thousand ears that they don't give a damn if the rally looks like a leftwing circus and 90% of the people there wish they would just shut up.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

28. Pork barrel protest?

That's what popped into my mind when I saw this topic.

Like when there's some big omnibus spending bill before congress, and it has to be passed (or face dire consequences).

That is when every Tom, Darlene, and Frances throws in their pet pork project as an amendment.

Does your constituency need a nice expensive bridge in the middle of nowhere? Attach it to an omnibus spending bill right before the recess deadline and there ya go!

And without DaLay will tell ya there is NO, zero, zilch fat in the Federal budget.

Probably cause a lot of it goes to pad his pocketbook.

[elehhhhna]

32. Hate to say but:

How can I take someone who calls himself Jello Biafra seriously?
Cripes, why not just let CarrotTop have the mic?

[thebigidea]

33. anybody who wrote "Holiday in Cambodia" is ok in my book

I take it you're unfamiliar with the Dead Kennedys? i doubt he was very serious when he adopted his punk name in the late 70s.

"Now it is 1984, knock-knock at your front door..."

[Puregonzo1188]

34. I've been very critical of ANSWER for diluting the message

so I suppose it would be hypocritical of me not to criticize Jello even though I enjoy his ideas and music. As a matter of fact, I was incredibly happy to see he would he hosting Operation Ceasefire, which I missed most of. My main reason for attending Operation Ceasefire was to hear Jello speak as I am a huge fan of Dead Kennedys and his spoken word albums. However, the comment about Mumia inappropriate. I have long wondered why Jello has never received any attention on this board, and as someone just reminded me, he did support Nader. Its a shame that so many good liberals with so many of DUs causes are never given the time of day here, because of their support for Nader in 2000. Though Bill Maher and Michael Moore seem to be the exceptions to this rule.

[maxsolomon]

37. Its not just Jello

I complained about this very issue regarding the flyer i got handed on 9-23 for the rally in Seattle on saturday.

End US occupation of Haiti? well, sure, yeah, but IRAQ IS THE ISSUE. Not fucking Haiti, ongoing tragedy that it is. Afganistan is BARELY the issue. I for one would have preferred turning it into our "laboratory of democracy", precisely because it is NOT ARAB & has no oil.

[brentspeak]

38. All the wackos want to hijack other people's protests

They can't get enough people interested in their own pet causes, so they commandeer someone else's protest to launch their own soapbox.

[okieinpain]

39. that's why I didn't watch the protest. cindy was pretty much used as

a shield for other bs.

[Idioteque]

41. Jello on the 2000 Democratic Convention

I know it's sort of off topic...
If you love Tipper, you'll love Joseph Lieberman.

Classic!

[Puregonzo1188]

44. Great post Idioteque

That was hysterical and brings up another issue never brought up on this board. I used to post on a music board that was dominantly right wingers, who never failed to call the Democratic Party the Party of censorship and to a lot of people its true. A lot of people don't care about politics, and thus don't see the concern with Acts like the Patriot Act. However, they do like to listen to WASP Animal Fuck Like A Beast. The point is the Dems need to distance themselves from some of these nutty media crackdowns, as they don't fair well among a majority of the American people.

[Captain Hilts]

42. Staying focused is not the strong point of liberals. It's maddening. nt