"AUTOMATIC TRIGGER" should send chills down our spines, people!

[Lerkfish]

With that ominous wording, the white house has given us a clue to our future, and it is a very bleak view.

What the white house wants, is to be able to institute martial law, even over and above any objections of State governments, Congressional purview, or citizen disagreement.

What they are asking, in essence, is the ability to send our own troops against us AUTOMATICALLY, without pretense or justification required.

AUTOMATICALLY, they can send in regular army troops to "stabilize" the area.
let's think about that, shall we?

We aren't talking about Iraq, we aren't talking about AFghanistan or Iran.
We're talking about Peoria, We're talking about Chicago, San Francisco, Miami, Walla Walla.
We're talking about pointing military rifles in the faces of old women and children.

not just any old women and children...YOUR mothers, YOUR children.

when the HELL are we going to wake up????

[NVMojo]

1. when we wake up and elect people to protect us. where are our Dem

reps in the middle of this bullshit heap??

[mcscajun]

2. And did you notice how Scotty slipped in that word "rebellion"

a couple of times?

Very Chilling, Indeed.

:scared:

[derby378]

14. Wherabouts?

Scanned the transcript, but haven't found the word yet.

[mcscajun]

15. Where'd you find the transcript? It's not up on the WH site yet....

?

[derby378]

17. Must've been yesterday's transcript I read

I'll sit back and wait for today's edition.

[Lerkfish]

18. I don't remember the word "rebellion", but I couldn't catch the whole

speech, either, so might have missed it, literally.

[mcscajun]

19. He said it at least twice...maybe three times.

Damn.

[Lerkfish]

21. not doubting you, just sayin I missed it

I was listening to a live stream in the background while working in a cube.

[mcscajun]

27. Oh, I got what you were sayin'

No problem here.

I'm just goin' a bit crazy looking for/waiting for a transcript.

[mcscajun]

39. Today's transcript is out....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/09/20050926-2.html

[mcscajun]

38. Today's transcript is out....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/09/20050926-2.html

[melody]

3. Gee, ya think they foresee the masses turning against them?

Scary, scary times.

[Lerkfish]

4. I"m thinking after we nuke Iran, they anticipate massive protests.

I'm just sayin...

It seems weird to make THIS a priority BEFORE making sure devastated areas are rebuilt and people are safe.

almost as if they know something is about to happen that would foment rebellion?

:shrug:

[Mabus]

6. martial law also makes it easier to stop elections

They're reverting back to their "fear tactics", not that they've ever given up on them.

I'm watching "Rome" on HBO. One message has been loud and clear once the troops cross the Rubicon they are civilans, otherwise the chances for tyranny greatly increase.

Besides, isn't this why we have a National Guard that the governors can call on?

[Lerkfish]

9. you mean the national guard fighting in Iraq?

that national guard?

you have to wonder:

why does Bush want to send Nat Guard to foreign soil, and send active troops to our soil, a complete flip flop of the intended purpose?

consider: so that the federal forces can usurp the state's soveriegnty.
so that forces would not be from their hometowns.


can someone answer WHY there is suddenly enough "active duty" troops to enforce the population in emergencies, but there wasn't enough to send to Iraq?

[Mabus]

11. Those are the ones

and those are the same questions I've pondered.

[Lerkfish]

23. didn't mean to make it sound like I was saying your weren't.

I reread my post and it COULD be misread that I was grilling you, which wasn't my intent if that impression came across.

[Mabus]

32. Oh no, not at all

I think I read it as you meant it. I'm with you.

[scarletwoman]

40. I brought this up back on August 30

Here's the thread:

Think about the implications of this: Nat'l Guard in Iraq, NorthCom HERE

Just thought I'd let you that you're not alone in worrying about this.

sw

[Lerkfish]

43. wow, thanks. I'd missed your thread the first time.

we are on the same wavelength, here.

and its not a wavelength that makes me comfortable.

[sarcasmo]

26. The World is over as we know it, if what you speak happens.

[Lerkfish]

28. The world "as we know it" is ALREADY over.

We can no longer go back to things they way they were.

Mad anarchists are in charge of the administration, hellbent on world domination, no matter who they kill or how much money they have to steal to do so.
Our civil rights "as we know them" are already stripped, and the system of checks and balances is severely damaged, perhaps irretrievably.

Now, maybe we can do something to aright this, but as of right now, The world as we know it is gone.

[AntiFascist]

45. My take...

Our economy, and the status quo of those in power, has become so dependent on oil that we are forced to engage in war whether the people want it or not. Greed rules, and as long as those energy stocks keep going up, nothing is going to stop them. Global warming, helping the poor, rebuilding NO ...all of these are low priority issues, unless it benefits Halliburton and the "defense" industry. Eventually, the time may come where the government and the people are at odds, and this is where martial law comes in handy. The masses will get beaten down, either through more 9/11-type events or skyrocketing interest rates.

[CrackpotAmerica]

5. Rest assured, this would never work. . .

Our beloved soldiers come from the same communities these fascists wish to control. ..

Should they try it, it would backfire to a devestating degree.

[Lerkfish]

7. so...how would it backfire? if martial law, what would we "backfire" with?

under martial law, they can suspend elections, so there's no accountability. They can shut down protests, dissent or opposition with the power of bullets and mortar if they so choose.

Rest assured, if they institute martial law, there's not much in OUR arsenal to fight that, legally or otherwise.

As far as the "same communities" thing....that would be true for the NATIONAL GUARD, but that is not what Bush is talking about: he's talking active troops...who could be from anywhere else.

[CrackpotAmerica]

22. The Enforcement Would...

be your brothers, sisters, moms dads and neighbors. . .

They wouldn't wish you any harm.

[Lerkfish]

25. You sir or madam, are more optimistic than I.

I'm reasonably certain there would be enough freepers thrilled at the prospect of martial law.

As we found out in Nazi Germany, it IS POSSIBLE for neighbors, sisters, brothers, parents to turn in members of their families to the gestapo.

If you think its not possible here, just remember they didn't think it possible there, either.

[CrackpotAmerica]

42. I didn't say it was not possible. . .

I believe it is likely as well.

However, just as it did not last for more than a decade in Germany, It would not last now.

I do agree that is very possible, though! But I refuse to fear it.

[TankLV]

54. Nope - the enforcement would be the "BLACKWATER" types.

and the foreign "professionals" who are already being outsourced by Blackwater, Halliburton, etc.

The foreigh mercenaries will have no compunction about firing on Americans.

That's why all our forces are abroad, including the NATIONAL GUARD.

They practiced it in the streets of NOLA.

[AntiCoup2K4]

33. It would never work?? It's working right now in New Orleans.

The same Blackwater pieces of shit who supervised the torture at Abu Ghraib and impersonated 6 ft tall white skinned "arabs" in the beheading videos are now walking the streets of New Orleans, not bound by any laws.

[kineneb]

49. hmmm, if they are not bound by any laws...

then if they are "accidently" shot at, is the shooter immune from punishment, since they were shooting at mercenaries?
...just wondering...

[cajones_II]

55. Since Blackwater represents the security arm of corporations

I assume any attack on them would be construed as an attack on America.

[Cronus Protagonist]

8. Well, if it will make us safer, it's OK with me

:sarcasm:



http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[proud patriot]

10. Hopefully soon

:-(

[Kagemusha]

12. Wake up. They're scared of doing this and having to stand behind it

They want to make it automatic because they're too scared to do it if it's optional and they have to take *responsibility* for the deed.

Smell the fear from the OTHER side.

[expatriot]

13. translation:Bush won't be responsible for response until first speech. nt

[raccoon]

16. Give me a link, Lerkfish! or a reference nt

[Lerkfish]

20. sorry, was listening to it via webcast from a previous link here....

someone gave in another thread.

I'll try to track it down.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4889703

I listened to a live stream, sorry.

[xxqqqzme]

24. I'll paraphrase Mahar

Why is it that the worse things are for us, the better it is for them?

(...Why is it the worst thing (9/11) that ever happened to this country is the best thing that ever happened to him?...)

[Lerkfish]

29. kicking...one vote away...

if anyone is so inclined.

and to sum up, WHY do they WANT an automatic trigger?

Why make it automatic, instead of allowing discussion or cooler heads to prevail?

[bigbrother05]

30. Typical abuser excuse, "You made me do this to you."

With an automatic trigger, it's not their fault, just following the law. Won't even need a congressional resolution 'just in case, he needs it, a la Iraq. They don't want discussions and when have any of them had cooler heads?

[Lerkfish]

31. good observation.

we *are* like abused domestic partners to this administration.

[Marleyb]

34. I know I feel abused....

The one thing we have going for us is that the Bush Administration has treated our military like crap, used, abused and won't even take care of them when they come home. At least Hitler was smart enough to treat his military well. There is little doubt at this time our military is smart enough to know who the real enemy is.

However, I think Blackwater Security might be a problem...

[CrispyQ]

35. I agree.

These guys are just itching to perpetrate violence on someone. They are above the law & we all know where that leads.

I am becoming more & more afraid of what my country has become & what is in the future.

[kineneb]

50. "I was only following orders..."

didn't work in Nurnburg, won't work here...f-ing Nazis

[Helga Scow Stern]

36. This is creepy, indeed, and kind of what we expected.

They do not want to give up power, and they will do whatever they can to hang onto it until it is taken from them. Of course they are anticipating an uprising, probably during the next presidential election, if not before, when their cheating will be plain for all to see. They need an excuse for automatic martial law, should an "emergency" of any sort arise.

[Hapameli]

37. It's already happening and we see where the targets are...

It's all going according to plan.

[glitch]

41. Before 2006 elections - they know they'll be impeached

indicted and imprisoned if we get Congress back. They know we suspect the machines already and won't believe their counts.
This is their next move if they are serious about keeping power, which I believe they most definitely are or they wouldn't have stolen 2004.
Their only other option is to take their loot and run to whichever country will take them.

Edit to add: I believe they will fail, and miserably.

[Helga Scow Stern]

44. Right, it's just that 2006 results might still be too diffuse, spread out,

to create the kind of uprising that will happen once another presidential election is stolen.

[windbreeze]

46. I have been reading this thread with great interest

As 2 groups I belong to were discussing this today...my thoughts...a very careful plan is being executed...it is a trap that we must not fall into...
The states have their military forces, their NG, which are currently in Iraq...and they should NOT be there, as long as there are FEDERAL forces on bases in this country, that could have been sent in their stead...
I don't know if any of you are aware of it, but weathermen are starting to question the storms we are having...Katrina/Rita and the like...and are saying this is NOT normal..and asking, are they being engineered..???
The FEDS responding to a national disaster is one thing, but WHO gets to determine what makes up a national disaster? A local state, or state disaster, is another thing entirely..and that is what every state's NG is trained for..to help in emergency situations, of any kind, in THEIR state...La., NG and their specialized equipment for flooding, is in Iraq...(do they have floods in Iraq?)

Read the following quote from a DOD News Briefing, question and answer session at the Conference on Terrorism, WMD and US strategy, held at the University of Georgia at Athens, made on 4/28/97 by Sec.of Defense Wm.S.Cohen....

"Others are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism, whereby they can ALTER THE CLIMATE, set off earthquakes, volcanos, remotely through the use of electric magnetic waves. So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's REAL, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our {counter-terrorism} efforts."

Our own government admits this is TRUE...Does anyone believe other countries have this ability and that WE don't???? so the plans are made, the storm hits, the faulty response is seen, now all of a sudden he wants an automatic trigger to respond with Federal troups...I suggest the other 50% WAKE UP soon....and the rest of us, had better be prepared for the worst case scenario...because if he gets his way on this...we are in big trouble
windbreeze

[Nothing Without Hope]

58. No, I do NOT believe in weather control or earthquake control. But there

are plenty of other things to worry about and clear indications that the Bush Administration is hell-bent on finding and/or engineering enough "enabling acts" to propel itself into establishment as a full millitary dictatorship. PLEASE SEE MY POST LATER IN THE THREAD, Reply #57, and follow the links. There's a huge amount of evidence that this has been the plan all along.

[Slit Skirt]

47. POTP

Bush wants to be president of the planet....plain and simple.
But first he's got to tame our asses.
that's why they love a crisis...let's see how we can manipulate the people THIS time
they don't care what they do to us...they have an agenda...that is why New Orleans is referred to as an "...exercise", because to them that is exactly what it is. It is also why they are allowing for torture...the day will come when they will need to use it here
we are all well aware of the FEMA camps

as someone pointed out above...the national guard in Iraq
the military here
and let's not forget the MEXICAN military here too
(they want us to get use to seeing foreign military on our soil...globalism baby)
wide open borders with almost complete amnesty for illegals
displacing citizens so it is harder to fight back. (much harder to fight when your personal life is in disarray)

WHEN EVERYTHING IS IN PLACE......BAM....NATIONAL EMERGENCY....goodbye rights, goodbye privacy, goodbye our world.
Bush will call for martial law. END GAME ACHIEVED.
It will either happen before the indictments come down or just before the 2008 election....

HE WILL NOT GIVE UP OFFICE.
AND IT WILL BE CALLED THE NEW WORLD ORDER.

[windbreeze]

48. I had forgotten

about the Mexican military on our soil...

Now let me ask this....did anyone ever find out the real reason 4*Gen.Byrnes was fired? I read somewhere (no I don't have a link) that he was asked to train 50,000 NON-ENGLISH speaking troops, and spoke out against it....considering this current business of automatic FEDERAL response...I now question even more, if it's possibly true that was the real reason...let's face it..IF we train non English speaking troops, on our soil, 50,000 of them...and we had an uprising...following my thought here? Would foreigners trained on our soil, hesitate to fire upon American citizens if ordered to do so? Do our soldiers hesitate to fire on Iraqi's??? just curious...

windbreeze

[Slit Skirt]

51. here is some more info on Byrnes

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2005/100805fourstargeneral.htm

The head of Fort Monroe's Training and Doctrine Command, four star general Kevin P. Byrnes, was fired Tuesday apparently for sexual misconduct according to official sources.

Other sources however have offered a different explanation for Byrnes' dismissal which ties in with the Bush administration's unpopular plan to attack Iran and the staged nuclear attack in the US which would provide the pretext to do so.

According to reporter Greg Szymanski, anonymous military sources said that Brynes was the leader of a faction that was preparing to instigate a coup against the neo-con hawks in an attempt to prevent further global conflict.

Indications are that, much like popular opinion amongst the general public, half the military oppose the neo-con's agenda and half support it.

http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/know/read.php?itemid=3078
50,000 New Recruits
What has not been reported is that recently, one of Byrnes’ subordinate commands, Fort Rucker in Alabama, had been told to stand by for an influx of 50,000 military trainees — a level the base has not seen since the Vietnam War. Byrnes’ relief of command came on the heels of the Pentagon announcing that it might permit Spanish-language entrance examinations. Byrnes, who was in charge of Army training, would not only face recruits with lower education levels and past criminal records, but a lack of proficiency in English.

Pentagon insiders report that it was Byrnes’ policy disagreements with the Pentagon neo-cons over the new recruitment policies and the potential for calling up Army retirees and reinstating military conscription without adequate TRADOC funding that resulted in his firing.

The personal misconduct charges were concocted by the Pentagon to cover up the fact that there are serious disagreements with Bush and Rumsfeld among the flag officer ranks in the military.

Byrnes was also associated with a group of officers who spent time at the US Army War College at Carlisle Barracks in Pennsylvania. The Army War College has been a center of opposition to the war in Iraq and it is believed that Byrnes was recognized by the neo-cons as one of the unofficial leaders of a group of Army flag rank opponents of Bush’s war in Iraq and potential military action against Iran.

[Slit Skirt]

52. also remember this

new orleans is an experiment...I have heard them say that....what is the experiment?

The first Neocon military-industrial-corporate city...facility...headquarters...who know what they will use it for.
But the military is there and the corporations are rebuilding it.
THIS is there experiment.

Listen to this interview....what more proof do we need?


http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/23/1338246
Blackwater Down: Fresh From Iraq, Private Security Forces Roam the Streets of an American City With Impunity

[LibertyorDeath]

56. The Plots Thicken

The Plots Thicken: David Margolis, Michael Chertoff (Of the Devil) & General Kevin Byrnes

by Al Martin


The recent dismissal of the four-star general
sent a signal. General Kevin Byrnes was a four-star
general who was the head of TRADOC (Training and
Doctrine Command) in Hampton, Virginia.

This never been done. A four-star general has
never been dismissed from the service since the rank
was created. Furthermore, the dismissal of a four-star
general should have instigated Congressional hearings.

The Defense Oversight Committee is charged with
investigating the dismissal of ranking officers. For
example, when both Richard Secord and Jack Singlaub
were dismissed from the service by President Carter,
there were Congressional hearings held.

Now, for a four-star general to be dismissed
without any call by the opposition, (in this case, the
Democrats) for Congressional hearings and without the
Department of Defense providing a reasonable
explanation is unheard of.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/mparent7777/1973043.html

[gulfcoastliberal]

53. Hey, as long as the trains run on time, who cares?

:sarcasm:

[Nothing Without Hope]

57. *** PLEASE READ THIS COMPILATION THREAD FOR THE FULL BACK STORY ***

This is a major, major constitutional crisis we're heading into, one the neocons have been preparing for a long time. This thread talks about Bush's comments about more military power, with of course him in sole charge of the military. Please read the FULL THREAD - not only the opening post.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112
Thread title: Missing A KEY POINT in *'s speech: POWER GRAB FOR POTUS AND MILITARY

There are MUST-READ articles linked to in the replies as well. For example:

On the dictatorial powers of the President under FEMA (Reply #31)- this will CURL YOUR HAIR:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112#4790882

The meaning, history and precedents of the Posse Comitatus act: (Reply #16):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112#4790545

The infamous 2001 Yoo Memo, another of those Bush DOJ memos that blatantly ignores the Constitution and all law to say that Bush has dictatorial powers. This one says he has sole control of the US military and sole power to declare war - and folks, he can declare martial law any time he pleases for "civil unrest" and under one of those FEMA executive orders, Congress can't even REVIEW it for SIX MONTHS (reply #23)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112#4790660

THERE IS MUCH MORE, AND MORE WILL BE POSTED. PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD

People, I believe that one of the reasons for the deliberate delay and blockage of aid to the Katrina-hit areas by the feds was to set up what was supposed to be a big contrast between "efficient" federal efforts when they finally arrived vs "incompetent" local/state efforts. This would help with PR to push for what they REALLY want, which is further suspension of the Constitution and concentration of powers in the POTUS. Didn't work -- yet -- in part because the feds are NOT efficient and also because their lies to blame all mistakes on local and state authorities didn't come off all that well either. But THEY WILL NOT GIVE UP - they want Bush to be a dictator with just some flim-flam trappings of democracy to fool the people, and they see this as their chance.

So now Bush says we should have more of what was the WORST of the Katrina response and nothing else. Just think how many more thousands would have died if NO ONE but the feds had had any power after the storm - as it was, hundreds and perhaps thousands have died directly because of their failure to deliver aid and repeated blockage of aid from anyone else, civil or foreign. We're not supposed to check the laws and find that the federal government ALREADY has full power in disasters and it was not invoked for DAYS while the WH and their media mouthpieces LIED about it. Oh, and by the way, yes, he would be a military dictator, but we're not supposed to notice that.

BTW, here is the thread on the article quoting the "trigger" comment:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1805660
Thread title: Newsday: Bush urges larger role for military

[Lerkfish]

59. NWH, I always appreciate the great posts you make in my threads...

and I appreciate the collating time to put in all those relevant links.

[Nothing Without Hope]

60. Thank you, LF, for making me feel welcome.

Sometimes I feel like a fool that is putting in this effort that is not read by anyone. Your encouragement is welcome.

And my DU friends call me Hope! :hi:

[windbreeze]

61. OH, don't ever get the feeling it isn't read.....

There are those of us out here who thirst for any information someone has the time to find...and then pass it on to others who are like minded...I think we are in serious trouble..and when I find a thread that substantiates what I see....I know I am not alone....and my middle name IS Hope...Thank you for all the links...bookmarking...
windbreeze...