RE Cindy: Why is getting arrested a "good" thing?

[mikelewis]

Apparently Cindy was arrested today for sitting down in the street and refusing to move when ordered to by the local police.



Excerpt:
"Sheehan and several dozen other protesters sat down on the sidewalk after marching along the pedestrian walkway on Pennsylvania Avenue. Police warned them three times that they were breaking the law by failing to move along, then began making arrests."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9493139/
And on the DU homepage...www.democraticunderground.com

Now, I support Cindy 100% but I fail to see how getting oneself arrested serves any purpose. The rally was a success which means she does not need to draw attention to herself to gain attention for her cause. No one infringed on the protesters rights to demonstrate, to my knowledge. Hell, the President even made sure he was not home so he wouldn't have to view it. Throughout her whole ordeal, the police seem to have been behaving very reasonably. I know they stand there in their jackboot stances and look intimidating but they are there to maintain order and ensure the safety of the demonstrators as well. I am probably just ignorant of the methods of civil disobedience but I view the police as I do our soldiers. They are not enemies of democracy, to me, they are Americans trying to do a difficult job. Now don't get me wrong, I know cops are corruptible and being from Cleveland, that's an understatement. But I don't think they are hostile to our demonstrations. In fact many police officers I know agree believe Bush is a bastard just as much as I do.
I know the police will side with the powers that be and that makes them easy targets for anti-establishment anger since they are the only representatives of state "opposition" but I fail to see how intentionally provoking them serves any purpose. Now I am not assuming to say that Cindy was wrong in doing whatever it was that got her arrested, I am merely stating that I do not understand it. According to the article, Cindy stopped and blocked a sidewalk. This is hardly a federal case but I understand why a large group blocking pedestrian traffic in a major city could prompt an arrest. The arrest may seem harsh but as long as their only intent was to remove her from the area temporarily to allow the remaining people to disperse, I have no problem with them doing.
So my question is basically, does Cindy's arrest constitute an act of civil disobedience and how does this serve our "cause"? I will of course wait for the truth to come out as to what really happened. But just from a cursory read of the event, it seems as if she tried to get arrested. Is getting arrested in this instance a benefit or does it detract from the credibility of the protesters?

[fudge stripe cookays]

1. These threads are really getting tiresome.

There are only 50 bazillion of them already.

It's called CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE. It's necessary to further the aims of a cause.

You didn't hear squat about suffragettes, the Civil Rights movement, Gandhi, or any of this stuff until people started taking the law into their own hands and breaking it.

It's a benefit. We shouldn't have to explain it to you.

FSC

[brentspeak]

8. Who's "we"?

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. Yes, but, but, we're a little more evolved.

I'd like to see the other side get arrested for a change.

[mikelewis]

12. Forgive my stupidity....

But I would think one so enlightened would be eager to share wisdom rather than to deride ignorant people for a failure of understanding. Maybe that is the essence of Wisdom, knowing when someone is just too simple to understand a concept.

[fudge stripe cookays]

24. I'm not calling you stupid.

I'm just saying there are threads all over DU about this topic. Why start another?

FSC

[AtomicKitten]

2. I'm torn on Cindy.

But what is important is that she is a private citizen entitled to say whatever the hell she wants. This is her thing, not "our" thing. She is responsible for her self and I, for one, allow her the space and grace to do her thing. As far as I'm concerned, she's keeping the dissent in the foreground, and that can't possibly be a bad thing. Time will judge her, not us.

[SteppingRazor]

3. Couple things --

First, she wasn't the only one arrested. Arrests are STILL going on, and Sheehan was arrested hours ago now.

Sedond, it helps us because, while the protest was a success, this generates far more news coverage. Sheehan's arrest made it on Wolf Blitzer's show today, buut I didn't see one sccrap of coverage on the protest throughout the weekend.

Cindy got arrested because nonviolent civil disobedience works. It worked for Ghandi, and it worked for the civil rights movement in this country; It has a proven track record of success.

[elfin]

4. It was the ONLY way they could get coverage

Other than that, not much advantage in doing it deliberately.

[ClintonTyree]

5. The rally WAS a success.......

but the nation's eyes were on Rita and the endless photo-ops of our pretzelnit. I think it's alright as long as she's willing to take responsibility for her actions, which she clearly is. She lost her son for cripes sake, not a house or a car. She lost her only son to an illegal and immoral war. You can't bring enough attention to a fact like that.

[RagingInMiami]

6. Apparently, that is what it takes for the media to cover the protest

She is a greiving mother who was arrested for sitting down without a license. Her arrest helps get the word out about the antiwar movement forming in this country.

Most Americans were not even aware there was a protest this weekend. Now they will know. And this forces the issue to be discussed among regular Americans.

[redwitch]

7. First they ignore you, then they fight you, then you win.

Go rent Gandhi ( the movie). Cindy is just making salt.


Some laws are meant to be broken.

[rosesaylavee]

17. Absolutely - making salt is the best analogy! Wish I could go and

help them in DC.

And as for this being another thread about it... isn't that why we belong to DU to communicate with each and share ideas? Not a big deal if mikelewis is not familiar with it. Those of us who are can share what we know. Snarking doesn't help the thread.

Peace.

[mikelewis]

23. Maybe it's the method that I don't understand...

In Ghandi's case, his people were starving from the effects of the salt laws and he decided to lead his people to in defiance of that law. Rosa Parks is also a good example. By sitting in a "white seat", she stood up to a an ideology that created laws based upon a condition of birth. But Cindy wasn't protesting the ban on blocking sidewalks in D.C. She and 500,000 others stood in beautiful and peaceful protest of a illegal and immoral act. Maybe I'm not understanding the concept... does any act of civil disobedience no matter how unrelated to the scope of the protest constitute an act of protest?

[knight_of_the_star]

31. It draws attention

That and being arrested for sitting down on a sidewalk seems to be a bit ridiculous when you think about it. She wasn't doing it to protest anything so much as to draw attention to a massive rally.

That said, I think we should try for a repeat, say two months down the line since Rita soaked up so much attention.

[rosesaylavee]

10. Gandhi made an art of civil disobedience - it helped free

India from Britain's rule. MLK Jr. used it to bring attention to the wide disparities of racial treatment in the 60's - he brought the country around to thinking, for the first time, that civil liberties for ALL PEOPLE despite the color of their skin was a good thing.

Sometimes in extreme times, change can only be brought about by exposing laws and practices by protesting them publically and getting arrested.

Let's wait and see what kind of publicity this gets and if it is any different from the publicity or lack thereof for the Saturday protests.

Peace.

[IndyOp]

When the laws (actions of government) are unjust,

the only place for a moral person to be is in jail.

Salut! :patriot:

[JuniperLea]

11. "I am probably just ignorant of the methods of civil disobedience...

...but I view the police as I do our soldiers."

No one is bashing the cops here; they are just doing their jobs by taking orders just like the US soldiers in Iraq.

Methinks you should take your own advice and wait for further details before you go choosing sides here.

[mikelewis]

16. I'm not choosing sides...

I am just asking the question based on the merits of the actions reported by MSNBC. I do know there is probably a lot more to the story but if there isn't, and there may not be, I was hoping to gain an understanding of civil disobedience and how it furthers a cause.

[JuniperLea]

26. read about MLK Jr and Ghandi

They were masters at civil disobedience and their stories are perfect examples of why CD is important and how/why it works.

[Kolesar]

13. It's not about the cops. It's about getting publicity. "earned media"

Btw, local police violated my civil rights last year. It was not the Cleveland police though.

[mikelewis]

18. Cleveland Police don't violate civil rights...

They are too busy selling crack for any of that constitutional bullshit.

[Kolesar]

22. hmmm

Well, I do remember them smiling at us while they blocked street for that Frozen February 2003 march.

[samdogmom]

14. I vote good thing. Remembering the 60s--shes more sympathetic now.

Her arrest will rile up the masses. It will lead to more and more outrage. I just don't understand why the establishment doesn't remember this lesson. Like the protester said via a sign yesterday, "I can't believe I (we) still have to protest this S**t!"

I guess Bush, Cheney et. al. had "too many other important things to do" in the 60's than pay attention to public opinion.

[havocmom]

15. Study history

the junta doesn't want an informed populace.


Subvert them by being informed & Study History

[damntexdem]

19. It's a tactic that has worked well in the past.

She chose to use it. We'll see how effective it is in the current situation.

It worked very well for the Civil Rights Movement.

[judy]

20. My feeling about this, and I get it from reading the History of the

Indian Independence movement (Mohandas K. Gandhi) and the US struggle for Civil Rights (Martin Luther King Jr.), is that if you are willing to be arrested because you are breaking a law that in your heart, mind, and conscience needs to be be broken, then you are creating a change in the balance of power.

In this case, I think Cindy's arrest has nothing to do with showing how harsh the police is or anything "victimizing" like that.
It shows that people such as Cindy are willing to give up their Liberty in order to express non violent dissent.

Also, being arrested by a Government the policy of which you absolutely refuse, can be one of the only ways of conscience. It engages your personal life so much, that it usually cannot be a PR stunt, but a deep personal committment.
So I would say don't see it so much as a strategy, but as the logical continuation of Camp Casey, and the willingness of a mother to go all the way with her voice of dissent in a country where dissent is generally ignored or discouraged.

[bowens43]

21. Of course it serves a purpose.

It draws the national spotlight to the movement. No, it doesn't detract from the credibility of those who openly oppose the war. In fact, it's quite the opposite. It gives us more credibility and detracts from the credibility of the administartion.

[OneBlueSky]

25. ever hear of Gandhi? . . . Martin Luther King? . . . duh . . . n/t

.

[mikelewis]

27. Okay, I give up... your point?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

28. How old are you?

Are you not old enough to remember when Rosa Parks refused to move to the back of the bus for a white person and was arrested? Do you not remember the days of blacks walking into whites only restaurants and sitting themselves at lunch counters and refusing to leave until they were taken out by the police?

If you are old enough, then shame on you for not remembering the lessons learned.

And if you aren't old enough, shame on you for not educating yourself on one of the most important times in our country's history and the tools that were used to fight the good fight.

[IChing]

29. I'm old enough to know flame bait when I see it- my only comment on this

thread.
Sorry, but 2+2 =4 and the poster still don't get it. I didn't bring my math
manipulatives to class today. So I suggest you read up again tonight before you
ask the teachers another question or comment on the question you posted..

[mikelewis]

33. I do understand the concept of Civil Disobedience...

I am questioning the method Cindy used to practice this form of dissent. If she had been protesting not being able to voice her opinions or stage her rally, I see where this act would be appropriate. As it stands, she chose to go to jail for intentionally breaking an unrelated law. Now, if she was arrested while trying to set up Camp Casey 3 across the street from the White House, that to me is an appropriate display of civil disobedience. But to intentionally set out to provoke an arrest seems to detract from the concept. She went to the White House, asked for an audience with Bush, was denied and then sat down and forced the police to arrest her. I am not saying she is doing anything wrong, nor am I denigrating her efforts. I just do not understand the logic behind the act. Ghandi chose to defy a law that was unjustly persecuting his people. His act of disobedience was not a performance engineered to land him in jail. His performance galvanized the people because he did the unthinkable and made salt, making salt should not be against the law. Landing in jail should be a demonstration of the injustice of the system. I cannot see how this demonstrates to the world the unjustness of the regime.

[jayctravis]

30. It's quite interesting that she wasn't arrested on Bush's

"personal" property, but she is not allowed to sit in front of the White House...which was built by the American People.

She is not panhandling, and she certainly is not homeless.

[TheVirginian]

32. Its not so much that *she* isn't allowed to sit there

No one is allowed to sit there. My best guess is that its for security purposes, but its the easiest and closest way of getting arrested near the White House without involving something really stupid, like hopping the fence.