Has Russ Feingold ruined his Presidential chances?

[ladylibertee]

As we all know by now, Russ Feingold, along with a few other weak Democrats, has stated that he will vote yes to confirm Judge john Roberts.Will this ruin his chance to run for Democratic Presidential Nominee for 2008?

[Syrinx]

1. I don't think so

He explained his decision reasonably. He's still the only senator to vote against the Patriot Act. Plus, I like the way he reaches out to the "red" states.

[ladylibertee]

4. By any chance are you a male? Just curious.

[Syrinx]

8. yes

And I don't think that Roberts will change the balance on Roe v. Wade. But the replacement for O'Connor might. That's the one to watch.

[ladylibertee]

11. Not being sexist, but that explains it.Roberts has already expressed

interests in overturning Roe v Wade by the way.

[Syrinx]

17. well

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the idea of Roberts sitting on the Court. But I'm much more concerned with the fact that he seems to be such a corporatist, than with the abortion thing. Didn't he say that Roe/Wade is settled law?

I think he's a terrible choice for the court, and if I were president (yeah, right) I never would've nominated him (I'd pick a younger Lawrence Tribe, maybe), but I can't think of anything that outright disqualifies him. And he's going to pass anyway... so I can't really blame Feingold that much. He's still the best person in the Senate (with the possible exception of Barbara Boxer), as far as I can tell.

[ladylibertee]

22. I know he will pass.I am opposed to Feingold for not voting the

people of Wisconsin's conscience,whom he represents,I live here.I know Wisconsinites, the majority of them, oppose Roberts

[Syrinx]

26. that's not what a Senator is supposed to do

A Senator, or representative, is supposed to vote her or his conscience, using reason and intellect. And if the people don't like how she or he votes, they dump her or him in the next election.

Again, I don't like the idea of Roberts on the court, but there isn't a legitimate reason that I can discern for Feingold to vote any other way.

[ladylibertee]

29. Really? and we vote....why?

[Syrinx]

31. beats me, the votes don't really seem to count for much

But, in theory, you vote for the person you think is best equipped to lead. Senators aren't supposed to take a poll before taking a position on an issue. Otherwise, we'd just decide every issue by popular referendum. That's not what the Constitution says.

[ladylibertee]

36. That's your answer? Beats me ?

[Syrinx]

37. did you read past the subject line? there's a message body too.

I'm not entirely convinced that our votes are counted correctly. But assuming they are, senators aren't supposed to poll their constituents before taking a position. If they did, it would defeat the entire purpose of a representative democracy. Understand?

[ladylibertee]

40. Senators are supposed to represent the people who voted for

them and keep the promises they made when they ran for the office that they were VOTED into.Understand?

[Syrinx]

62. did Feingold promise to vote against Roberts?

I missed that.

[ladylibertee]

65. No, Dude Where are you? Your so not making sense anymore.

[Syrinx]

82. okay

You think everything should be decided by popular referendum. You have the right to think that, but it's not our form of government. Of course our form of government doesn't really exist anymore, so party on!

[ladylibertee]

86. I bet their were people who said that same thing during slavery,

segregation and to women once.It's a good thing, they didn't listen.I sure as heck wouldn't be here.

[Syrinx]

89. you are making my point

If slavery and segregation had been left to popular will we would still have them today. Read.

[ladylibertee]

90. POPULAR? That's the problem .The "oppressors" weren't the

POPULAR to begin with.

[Syrinx]

93. sure they were

Only white men were allowed to vote.

[ladylibertee]

100. OMG!!!! I see you are attempting to incite an outrage from me with

your sarcasm.This is something that I take very seriously and it is not only obvious that you do not care about this,it is also obvious why you,Sir. do not care about this issue as much as I do.Peace!

[Syrinx]

102. your sarcasm drips, Ma'am

But that's fine.

[ladylibertee]

106. I am WOMAN Hear me roar.LOL

[Syrinx]

113. I hear you woman!

I hate women! :)

Kidding. I love women. Wish I had one.

[ladylibertee]

115. Which explains why you're STILL awake. LOL

[Hippo_Tron]

128. A majority of Wisconsin supported the IWR, should Russ have voted for it?

Senators aren't supposed to act 100% as delegates. They are supposed to also do what they think is right, which is part of the reason that we elect them.

[ladylibertee]

44. Can you say.....DEMOCRAT ? LOL Your funny

[flaminbats]

53. don't just say democrat, be one..

a democrat is a servant of the voter, a Republican is a prisoner to money and blackmail.

[ladylibertee]

56. I believe that is the point I have been trying to convey.Hello

[flaminbats]

73. glad to be in the majority..

I agree Democrats should try a little diplomacy toward each other for a change. Don't we receive enough daily hits from the Republicans? :hippie:

[ladylibertee]

74. (sigh) Yeah, I suppose

:pals:

[Syrinx]

69. so what is your definition of a Democrat?

Why do think Feingold should vote against Roberts?

Because he imagines that he might someday in the future issue a ruling that in some way restricts abortion? That's Feingold's right, but he decided otherwise.

Feingold is the best, most liberal senator in the Senate. To get hung up on defeating Roberts because of some phantom fear is counterproductive as far as I can see.

Roberts sucks, and abortion ranks pretty far down the list as far as reasons go. But the president (and I know he stole the presidency, but that, I guess, is beside the argument) gets to name the justices. As far as I can tell, there is nothing that disqualifies Roberts. If you find something that does, I'll be glad to hear about it. Otherwise, to disrespect Feingold because of this is just immature.

[ladylibertee]

77. Spoken from a true ....Anyways, in the spirit of freedom of expression, I

will not insult your "kind" but Sir, (As far as I can tell, there is nothing that disqualifies Roberts)????This statement you just made tells me that you obviously have not followed the countless number of media reports or followed the confirmation hearings on c-pan,or read the newspaper, or searched the web because it is quite clear to ANYONE who has been following this since the day Bush announced the Antichrist, that he is not qualified for the position as it relates to the sustained freedoms for the American...no, the non-white and female Americans.:sarcasm:

[Syrinx]

87. okay he's a white male

So that's why you are so much against him. I've got it.

It sounds like you are the true... Anyways....

I've stressed throughout this exchange that I think he sucks. But he's about as good as you're bound to get from Bush.

Tell me specifically what you think disqualifies him. I assume that it was hyberbole on your part when you said he's the Antichrist.

Tell me what his race and gender, specifically, have to do with it.

Please try to think of the big picture. If you think Feingold is bad, I'm sure Wisconsin can do worse.

:nonsarcasm:

[Syrinx]

88. what is my "kind?"

That sounds a lot like you might be what you are insinuating I am. Am I correct?

[ladylibertee]

92. LOL ....A MAN. A Man for crying out load.Shhheeeezzze!!!!

[Syrinx]

96. self edit

probably a bad question.

[ladylibertee]

99. OH, NO you did NOT just ask me that.LOL .I am thinking about

ALL of us girls, not just myself.I am a grown woman. I have NEVER nor will EVER have an abortion in my life.I am thinking about countless other women who may NOT share my convictions.Thank you very much.:*

[Syrinx]

101. let's just agree to disagree (but not that much really)

I need to go to sleep. Nice to talk to you.

[ladylibertee]

108. LOL. I won I won ! LOL ( jk)

[Syrinx]

110. I don't think so (jk)

I still don't understand your position exactly. Good luck and I hope John Roberts has a heart attack. ;)

[ladylibertee]

111. Good Night.

[ladylibertee]

103. Uh, Yeah...ya Think?

[Syrinx]

107. not really

Actually you've been much ruder to me, but I forgive you.

[ladylibertee]

109. What? So not true. I thought you were going to bed?

[Syrinx]

112. sorry... I'm trying

:kiss:

[ladylibertee]

114. GO TO BED !!!!! Good night

[tritsofme]

91. I very much doubt that...

Being that around 60% of the nation supports Roberts' confirmation, I doubt that Wisconsin varies that much from the nation at large...
especially being that the Packers season has started...but then again maybe this fall Wisconsinites have had more time to pay attention to politics.

[ladylibertee]

97. Well, I didn't believe it when I first moved here,but Wisconsinites

actually can focus on the Packers and real issues facing the country at the same time.:P / However,most of this talk comes from conversations on the job, school or in passing.Most Wisconsinites (the young ones)are real Democrats and Feingold surely has not been acting like one at all this week.He's been swinging. I guess, in a sense,this being a swing state, he very well may be representing.:sarcasm:

[ticapnews]

126. You're arguing the wrong case...

Roberts claims that Roe is settled law, whether he really believes that or not. The real issue is privacy. The case we should be worried about is Griswold which guaranteed a "right to privacy" even if it isn't spelled out in the Constitution. Without Griswold there is no Roe thus it is no longer settled law. If the 1965 case is overturned, the 1973 decision is dead in the water. If the Christofascists manage to get the inherent "right to privacy" taken away, it won't just be women who suffer.

I am dismayed by the fact that people place so much emphasis on abortion, when abortion itself is protected by another, far more important, right. You don't want the government (or the church) coming between you and your doctor. You don't want them telling you what to do with your body. I respect that, and I don't want it either. Without the overriding protection from Griswold the government not only gets to say you can't have an abortion, they can tell me I have to (or that I can't) have a heart operation. They can say, "You have two healthy kidneys so you have to give one to this person." They can also say you can go to prison for using birth control...

I don't want Roberts on the Court any more than you do. You have your reasons, I have mine, and they aren't as separate as you might think. However, we have to face reality. Shrub is the president, he is going to nominate who he wants and more than likely this weak-kneed senate is going to roll over and consent to whomever he names. I would like Feingold, and other Democrats, to vote against Roberts but I know that isn't going to happen. We are a divided party and will remain one until we find a message and a messenger that unites us again.

Not to get all "Kumbaya" here, but it starts with people like you and me. We have the same goals but different ways to reach them. If we at the grassroots can work together, find common ground and compromise a little, we can be so much more effective. If we unite around a common vision our leaders will reflect that. If we remain divided and weak, our leaders will continue to reflect that as well.

[genius]

127. Sorry;. He's lost my vote. He's no better than the Germans who let Hitler

solidify his power. He sees nothing out of line about supporting permanent detention without trial and the torture of children. There is something wrong with the way Feingold things, and I wouldn't trust him to sit with my dog. I'd like my dog to live.

[GetTheRightVote]

2. Yes, he has along with many others supporting John Roberts !!!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[ladylibertee]

6. DITTO THAT !

[kma3346]

10. DOUBLE DITTO!

Any Democrat that votes for Roberts is on my sh*t list!!

:spank:

[SteppingRazor]

3. What chances?

Ahem,. You'll forigve me for saying so, but I always looked at Feingold as a very dark-horse candidate.

That said, his biggest problem would be shaking off the criticism that he's too far left -- and a vote for Roberts (who will be confirmed in any case) helps to do that.

Edited for clarity

[lcordero2]

5. I think that he is secretly hoping for a full scale revolt

After being in the hole for a cool 8 trillion dollars he probably figures there is no other choice than to try to speed up the demise}(

[Alizaryn]

7. No, not at all

Thats one of his strengths I think, he does what he believes. We are not going to always all agree.

[ladylibertee]

9. So, you think it is okay to vote for a man who "believes" that John

Roberts should be confirmed? hmm Interesting.

[Alizaryn]

33. Hummm

"So, you think it is okay to vote for a man who "believes" that John Roberts should be confirmed? hmm Interesting."

Yes

I think it is okay to disagree and will not judge any of the candidates on any one vote. If I used that method there would not be anyone I could vote for, since I don't know of anyone who I have agreed with on everything all the time.

"Roberts should be confirmed?"

Should be? No.
Would he be regardless of how Feingold voted? Yes

Does Feingold think that Roberts SHOULD be confirmed OR does Feingold know the Roberts WILL be confirmed and is casting his vote in a way to gain him the most power for future votes? Does Feingold know something we don't know about Roberts? Questions I cannot answer and neither can you.

I will give him the benefit of the doubt since he has a track record of voting how he feels, you will do what you have to do. I suspect that there might be a strategy behind his decision.

In any case, if it came down to it I would vote for Mickey Mouse if it had any chance of bringing about a change of administrations.

[ladylibertee]

41. I do, Edwards.

[Alizaryn]

120. I like Edwards,

I wish he had not voted for the October, 2002, resolution that authorized George W. Bush to use force against Iraq, but I'd vote for him as president in a heartbeat.

[Hippo_Tron]

143. Sorry, Edwards enabled * to send almost 2k troops to die for no reason

Oh yea and I could never vote for Paul Wellstone because despite the fact that he is so far the most liberal Senator in my lifetime, he voted for DOMA and the Patriot Act.

*sarcasm off

Do you see what I'm getting at?

[gumby]

12. He never had a chance.

Used to like Russ. Just when I beginning to get over his Ashcroft vote, he goes and endorses Roberts. At least Aschroft always had a limited shelf life. Roberts is likely to ruin all of our lives.

[cobaindrain]

13. he never had a chance

in a field with Edwards, Hillary, Biden, Bayh, Kerry, and Warner, what chance does feingold stand? none

[jaysunb]

14. It won't matter

he was never going to get the nod anyway.

[ladylibertee]

15. WHEW ! I guess I just wanted to know if I was the only one who

felt that way.I am relieved to know,most of us liberals aren't stuck on stupid and we hold our leaders accountable for what they do.A yes vote from Feingold, is a No vote from me.I see I am not alone.:grouphug:

[Hippo_Tron]

144. Shit, didn't people say the same thing about Howard Dean?

[ticapnews]

16. Who is still "ideologically pure" in the Democratic Party?

Every Democratic leader has cast votes that don't jive with the liberal/progressive viewpoint. Are we to discount all of them?

No one who voted for the IWR can be our nominee.
No one who voted for the Patriot Act can be our nominee.
No one who voted to confirm (insert name of judge or cabinet official here) can be our nominee.
No one who voted to confirm Ohio's slate of electors to the Electoral College can be our nominee.

And on and on and on...

If we keep saying "I can't vote for Candidate X because they voted that way on Issue Y" we're not going to have any candidates left.

I am interested in a candidate's stands on several issues, not just one or two, and there is no "litmus test" for my support. I can still support Russ Feingold even if he casts this vote, just as I could support John Kerry or Hillary or even Bill Clinton for doing things I disagreed with...taken on the whole, they make fine leaders.

The only way you will find a candidate that perfectly matches your political philosophy is when you put your own name on the ballot.

I don't think the vote on Judge Roberts is going to diminish Feingold's chances to be the nominee, but I don't think they are that high anyway.

[ladylibertee]

19. You make a notable argument.There is a distinct difference in

voting for those amendable issues and voting for Roberts.Roberts is PERMANENT.Not only that, we all know sneaky ass Republican congress will try to pass something that "appears" to be in the interest of liberals, but contains hidden clauses that in effect, take away rights of liberals.This is why you see so many NO votes from Democrats on issues that "appear" to be in Americas best interest.Again, ROBERTS is no secret to those of us who have not drank the kool-aid and is PERMANENT.

[Hippo_Tron]

147. Tell the families of the troops who died in Iraq that, it isn't permanent

[AllyCat]

18. Stop thinking about Senators for POTUS!!!

I liked Feingold BEFORE his horrendous vote on Roberts. But even then, I did not think he would make it to POTUS if selected as the Dem candidate. Nor will Hilary, or Bayh, or Kerry, or Lieberman, or any of the typical DLC wimps.

But DLC isn't the problem. It's being a SENATOR that's the problem. The American people do not understand enough about the workings of Capitol Hill to see how someone can vote for something one time and then against it a second time. They don't understand pork spending and how it happens. In the estimation of the typical American viewer who likes sound-bite news, a Senator will get creamed every single time!

Not only that, I do not feel Senators have executive experience like Governors, mayors, or high-ranking military leaders do. It has been a LOOONNNGGGG time since a Senator was elected Prez.

Forget it. Lets stop looking to many of our wimpy Congressional Dems for a leader. It ain't there. Lets focus on someone who might actually have leadership experience and not have to defend a yo-yo appearing voting record.

[ladylibertee]

21. Suggestion? I think Edwards.

[AllyCat]

42. Not quite sure of the intent of your post, but the same plm exists w/him

Still a Senator (and one who hadn't even bothered to finish his first term before runing for POTUS) and he is DLC. he ran for office and basically vacated his post, just like Kerry did, and missed key votes on things like overtime pay and the Medicare spending fiasco.

[ladylibertee]

46. Oh c'mon...Did'nt Clinton as well? Or no? I thought he did.Not sure.

[AllyCat]

50. Bill Clinton (you said he) was a governor of AR, not a Senator

He had no vote on either of those bills. If you mean Hilary, she is DLC through and through and has even vocal lately touting the whole "family and religious values" crap we all know and hate.

[ladylibertee]

51. crap we all know and hate? News Flash. There is such thing as

a Christan who is a Democrat.

[AllyCat]

118. Of course there is. But they don't go around wearing it on their sleeves

nt

[Freddie Stubbs]

129. Jimmy Carter did

He was not shy about talking about his religious beliefs.

[AllyCat]

130. He had a legitimate reason to do so.

He was a minister! Hilary is using it for press ops.

[Freddie Stubbs]

132. I'm not sure that is accurate

Nowhere in the White House's or the Carter Library's biographies is there mention of him being a minister. You may be confusing him with someone else.

[AllyCat]

133. Okay, he is a minister now. He was a sunday school teacher

throughout his political career. Despite his professed Christianity, I don't remember him ever making it part of his policy-making. His belief in God as I remember (I was quite young) was a personal conviction, not trying to "sum up" the beliefs of all Americans.

[Hippo_Tron]

145. BULLSHIT

Sorry but I absolutely fucking hate this argument.

To begin with, name a Democratic Governor who is ready to step up.

Warner - DLC Hack

Richardson - DLC Hack

Vilsack - DLC Hack and could put a corpose to sleep

Henry - DLC Hack

Sebelius - DLC Hack

Schweitzer - Won't have finished his term as Governor, too early to run.

Spitzer - Will just have been elected, can't run

Corzine - Will just have been elected, can't run

So who does that leave us with? Wes Clark. I like Wes and I would be more than willing to work and vote for him but he is ONE man. We need more than ONE guy in the primary.

This nonsense of "anybody but a Senator" is ridiculous. Bobby and Jack Kennedy were both Senators, both were incredibly talented politicians and leaders and both had charisma in their veins. I certainly think that Bobby or Jack Kennedy would be much more electable than somebody like Tom Vilsack who could put a corpse to sleep. I'm voting for the person, not the previous job title.

[AllyCat]

155. I don't think there are any senators who have it either

I mean, frankly, most of the Senators people are suggesting daily on the forums are: DLC Hacks.

The one I would consider is Barbara Boxer, but I'm not sure she has the leadership capability. But I don't know her that well either. Hilary has been a senator for what, one term +? Edwards? The same. Bayh has been there forever, but again, DLC Hack.

Heck I can't even promote Wisc. gov Doyle: also DLC Hack.

Maybe the Dems need to get organized. Thank God they have a couple of years to do it.

[Hippo_Tron]

156. The Senate at least has Boxer, Kennedy, Leahy, Schummer, etc.

As far as the "presidential" ones go, that's a different story.

[flaminbats]

20. no..it could even help his chances with some conservatives

but this vote makes me doubt that Feingold ever wanted to run.

[ladylibertee]

24. Well, whether he did or not, he ain't now.Unless, he is a fool.

[flaminbats]

32. Feingold is probably the least foolish member of the Senate..

anyone wanting to run for President would not merely oppose this appointment, but could easily name some highly qualified alternatives.

[ladylibertee]

35. Edwards, Thank you very much . LOL

[LittleClarkie]

23. Nah. It's consistent with how Russ has voted before on nominees

No big surprise.

His chances are still about the same. He's still largely unknown, I reckon, outside Wisconsin. If folks know of him at all, they know of him as the one Senator who voted against the Patriot Act. And that's still a good thing.

As for whether or not I'm a guy or a girl. I'm a girlie. A Wisconsinite girlie. A Wisconsinite girlie with a Feingold sticker on her car.

[ladylibertee]

25. Hm-mm what neck of the woods? Fond du lac or something like that?

Feingolds office is in Milwaukee,and you know what type of people are there.He certainly does not represent them.

[LittleClarkie]

27. Actually, for the most part, he does

I live in New Berlin, but campaigned out of Milwaukee during the election. Met some cool people, not the least of whom were some really spiffy Feingold staffers.

I don't have to agree with every vote. Most of the time, he's a good guy.

[ladylibertee]

28. Yes, His past marriages can attest for that .I'm so sure.LOL

[LittleClarkie]

30. Who gives a flying fuck about that?

What does that have to do with his politics.

Btw, we've had divorced presidents before. It doesn't necessarily preclude becoming one.

He is a good man. One vote doesn't change that. What else do you have against him besides that one vote, may I ask? What has so colored your view of him? Why all the hateration?

[ladylibertee]

34. Oh, where do I begin?

I wont rant and rage about this.I will just say, as a native Californian Democrat who is NOT used to people who SWING back and forth all the time in their position on issues that directly effect moi,I feel that Feingold is a complete Wuss.When I moved here, I voted for him too not really knowing much about him because I voted STRAIT democratic without SWINGING.Now, that I have been here for a little bit, and studied the WUSS-consinite, I find that he is a spineless man who only cares about himself and possibly a select few others.He does not represent the majority of Wisconsinites that I met when I volunteered my help during the election in GREEN BAY.Most of whom are young and do not like when politicians do things that effect their future.After all,we are the ones who will be left with the country that these old farts at the Washington Retirement Center (AKA Congress)are destroying.:eyes:

[LittleClarkie]

38. I wouldn't call the only man to had the balls to vote against the Pat Act

a wuss, personally.

If you don't mind me asking, which politicians DO you like?

[ladylibertee]

43. Edwards. Let me hear it.It's okay, It's only fair.LOL

[FrenchieCat]

45. Did Edwards vote for the Patriot Act AND the IWR?

Cause that's not any better of a track record IMO. Wars scar folks for life....just like the wrong judge can.

[ladylibertee]

49. amendable.

[FrenchieCat]

60. Tell that to Cindy Sheehan....

About that "amendable" vote.

[ladylibertee]

64. Why?

[LittleClarkie]

66. Frenchie

what was Clark saying at the time of the IWR vote. Seriously. I'm sorta stuck in more than one thread tonight. I want to put Clark in his proper perspective as well. I realize that I don't really know Clark's timetable either. Was he for it at the time, or did he prefer Biden/Lugar.

In a way, I bring it up because, like Dean, he didn't have to vote, and so has no vote by which he has to hang by his thumbs whenever the subject comes up. That's not terribly fair to the Congress critters.

[ladylibertee]

80. I think your confused with another thread.It's okay.I'm right and we'll

just end it at that.:P

[LittleClarkie]

81. Ain't talkin' to ya, lady. Talkin' to the Frenchie over there

who be a Clarkie. Despite me name, I be a Kerry...ie...

[ladylibertee]

85. Oh,My bad.(LOL)

[FrenchieCat]

95. Wes Clark's own words....

"I would offer the following considerations:

- The United States diplomacy in the United Nations will be further strengthened if the Congress can adopt a resolution expressing US determination to act if the United Nations will not. The use of force must remain a US option under active consideration. The resolution need not at this point authorize the use of force, but simply agree on the intent to authorize the use of force, if other measures fail. The more focused the resolution on Iraq and the problem of weapons of mass destruction, the greater its utility in the United Nations. The more nearly unanimous the resolution, the greater its impact in the diplomatic efforts underway.

- The President and his national security team must deploy imagination, leverage, and patience in crafting UN engagement. In the near term, time is on our side, and we should endeavor to use the UN if at all possible. "
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/us/hearingspreparedstatements/hasc-092602.htm#WC

I think that he became frustrated as it got closer to a vote....
and felt there was a need for more debate....and that the debate had to that point had been conducted "backwards". An AP article was written stating that he would support "a" resolution....but it was misleading because he never said that he would support "the resolution".....

"The general said he had no doubt Iraq posed a threat, but questioned whether it was immediate and said the debate about a response has been conducted backward."
http://premium1.fosters.com/2002/election%5F2002/oct/09/us%5F2cong%5F1009a.asp

[LittleClarkie]

98. Sounds like a sane stance

Thanks for digging that up. You didn't have to be my research monkey, but I appreciate it.

I wonder how he would have voted if he'd had to vote on the IWR. Sounds like he would have been very close to a nay.

[FrenchieCat]

104. Hard to say.....

to this date, he said that he would not have given Bush a blank check....and he still sounds mad about it all....

I think he would literally wanted to kick some ass, that's what I believe. Especially now that "his" army has been so misused. He hates that most of all!

That's why he ran...he really felt that George Bush was more than just a disaster. Kerry was going nowhere in his campaign at the time...and he didn't feel that Dean could win the general election...as Clark predicted that this would be a National Security election. He couldn't bare to have Bush for 4 more years.....hell, me neither for that matter.

I often feel strongly that if Kerry would have had Clark as VP, things might have turned out differently. But then again, we'll never know....will we?

[LittleClarkie]

105. Ironically, Kerry and Clark aren't that far apart on the issue

or in their attitudes toward the misuse of the military.

In fact, I've liked it when they've teamed up, during the campaign and after.

Who knows. I'd like to see both of them in the next Dem administration, but those are mostly daydreams.

[flaminbats]

39. compared to Feinstein, Feingold is a knight on a white horse..

I can only dream of having Senator like him, one who understands the meaning of honor and morality.

[LittleClarkie]

47. And who has a mind of his own, and is enough of a maverick

to vote for what he thinks is right, regardless of what folks will think. Wisconsinites kinda like mavericks, so even a few Repubs voted for him in the last election. I know because I phonebanked. Of course, it didn't hurt that his opponent was a tool, even by Repub standards.

Feingold was a hero when he voted against the Pat Act, a villain when he voted for Condi, a hero when he suggested a timetable for getting out of Iraq, and now a villain again for his vote for Roberts. He'll pop back up again I reckon. Me, I try not to ride the vote rollercoaster.

[ladylibertee]

52. SWINGER, SWINGER SWINGER .I just don't like that about him.

[LittleClarkie]

59. Bow, chicka, bow,bow...

Hey, baby, doncha know some people LIKE a swinger... wink, wink, nudge, nudge?

Eh, that bugs me some. Swinger dangerously close to flip flopper.

[ladylibertee]

63. Dangerous indeed.Speaking of Kerry(lol)I voted for him because I

wanted Edwards in the White House.;)

[LittleClarkie]

68. You gotta "thing" for him, Ms. Tree?

He ain't exactly perfect either. Why cut him slack and not Russell?

[ladylibertee]

70. Well, he was the son of a mill worker who grew up poor and made something

of himself and he knows the struggles of ordinary people and he remembered how the pain of seeing segregation made him feel and he confronted it and he ..he....he's just great.:loveya:

P.S. He also KNOWS he is a DEMOCRAT :kick: :patriot:

[AllyCat]

123. Son of middle management millworker. It's not like they were poor

Confronted segregation? Isn't he only in his early 50s? He just never spoke to me in the primaries. It was a lot of "positive energy" and nothing of substance. I never heard a plan for any of our more pressing problems.

I appreciate that you support him, but I don't feel he is Presidential material. Frankly, I didn't think Kerry was that strong either, but I worked for them when they were on the ticket and did my best to make it happen (of COURSE they would have been better than what we have now!!). What is frustrating is that the DNC didn't listen to those of us who told them when and how GWB* would steal the election.

I do believe K/E won fair and square. I only wish they had fought harder, both before and after the election.

[AllyCat]

121. I wouldn't mind the "swinging" if Feingold had a dang REASON why

His website says that he believes in Roberts' integrity. Based on 1) two years of judicial experience, 2) not answering any questions, and 3) not releasing documents that might help answer those and other questions, I'm having a hard time seeing how Feingold came to that conclusion.

Seems that if he has information we don't, he should share that information with us. Many of his other votes seemed to have a reason, whether I liked it or not (Prezulnut can have the Admin he wants, etc). But this one just really jumped the shark for me.

[ladylibertee]

48. for a select few.

[flaminbats]

55. "along with the voting majority"

;)

[ladylibertee]

57. You mean, along with strait ballot votes? He slipped pass.LOL

[ladylibertee]

54. Feinstein knows she is a Democrat. Feingold ? SWINGER

[Lecky]

58. Wow...Feingold is one of our best senators, and a fantastic Democrat!

[ladylibertee]

61. When I moved here, I always wondered why Wisconsin is a swing state and

what the heck it all meant.I think you just cleared it up for me.:eyes:

[flaminbats]

67. actually zig zag zell is a swinger..

and Speaker Hastert is the thin-skinned, submissive reactionary

[ladylibertee]

72. Well, Feingold,Kohl,Conyers and the other four or five idiots who

voted for a man who could OVERTURN all the rights that I've ever known,will not be getting any respect from me .EVER!:kick:

[flaminbats]

75. then who does?

in the words of Petronius.."you see a louse on someone else, but not a tick on yourself."

[ladylibertee]

78. "then who does?" Edwards, Feinstein, Dean, Boxer and more

[AllyCat]

125. Boxer is great, by the way

and about the only Senator I would consider to be a good President. If the DNC is going to annoint a woman, I'd rather see her than Hilary. She is in the same vein as Conyers...I'm surprised you are approving her and not him.

[AllyCat]

124. Conyers? Are you still talking about the Roberts nom?

Conyers is in the House and damn fine Democrat if I ever saw one! He has done more to fight for us (DSM, against Iraq, fighting blackbox voting--among MANY other things) than almost any other member of Congress!!! Please do NOT include him in this list. This is a man who can articulate a point and not turn things into a photo-op! He has integrity and no ambitions. He fights for people.

He is one of the few members of Congress earning his keep IMO. We need more John Conyers!

[MADem]

150. We have not had any in recent memory that were 'sans spouse'

when the election came around.

And he has worn a path down the aisle, which could be problematic, even in this day and age.

[BlueIris]

71. Well, I'm basically done with Feingold at this stage.

I used to say that if I couldn't have JK, I wanted Feingold, Clark or Boxer. Now I want, erm, NotFeingold, Clark and Boxer. Kerry remains supreme in my mind, as always, but I work for what we get. Gore's looking mighty, mighty attractive these days...

[TayTay]

135. Yes, but could you

make out with him?

(Just a joke BlueIris. I know the answer to that one already.)

[autorank]

76. YES. Buy a vowel Russ, take the pulse of the people...

Oh, and he says he has some rule about giving the President his appointments unless they're serial killers or something. Grow, the F up! This is a life time appointment of a guy:

who would have us believe that he forgot that he was a member of the Federalist Society.

THAT'S A LIE AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT.

You bet this guy hurt his chances. He's finished for President, done, stick a fork in him.

[ElectroPrincess]

79. What Presidential chances? /eom

[autorank]

84. I was accepting the logic of the original post. You're right, from little

chance to none.

[Zero Division]

83. No. Pronouncements of political death are far too common on DU.

I wish he had voted differently, sure, but in the end the only appointment that has any real chance to make a difference is the next SCOTUS appointment. Bush is never going to put up a nominee that any of us would find remotely acceptable. Roberts is replacing Rehnquist. At the worst, Roberts will have as negative an impact on the SCOTUS as Rehnquist, Scalia, or Thomas.

Feingold has a great overall voting record, even by DU standards, so I imagine this one vote is not going have that great an impact on his support by the time '08 rolls around. Very few people, even on DU, seem to know much about Feingold, and this one bad vote is coloring their judgment.

[AtomicKitten]

94. Ah, come on .. don't stick a fork in him just yet

I know it's disappointing.

Which is why Al Gore is such a brilliant candidate. He doesn't have the stink of the Iraq Resolution vote on him, nor this one.

But I digress.

[Rainscents]

137. I really think, Clark/Gore ticket is perfect for '08

[AtomicKitten]

138. I disagree

but I could see a Gore/Clark ticket.

Clark doesn't have the experience that Gore has, plus Gore has already served as VP for eight years.

I'd REALLY like to see a Gore/Obama ticket. I love General Clark and would definitely give him a cabinet position. I just think the appeal of Obama would electrify voters.

[bklyncowgirl]

116. He was near the top of my list. Now he's dropped down quite a bit.

He's not down at the bottom--pro war Democrats like Biden and Clinton hold that spot--but he's dropped.

Too bad.

[IndianaGreen]

117. I believe that Russ has hurt himself by voting for Roberts.

We must weight that by comparing Russ's misguided but principled vote with the crass political calculation of people like Bayh and Hillary who are voting for Roberts on account of polls and focus groups.

[erpowers]

119. Yes

There were a large amount of people who will feel betrayed by Feingold for voting the way he did. Many people believed in Feingold as the guy who would stand up for progressive ideas. Many expected him of all people to stand up against Roberts. There just seems to be no reason for him to vote the way he voted.

[ComerPerro]

122. Who, outside of DU and Wisconsin, has even heard of him?

I mean, really?

So, I don't think it hurt him as much as you might think.

Plus, he still has two years to recover.

Unless Roberts turns out to be a total monster.

Then it might hurt Feingold, yes.

[DELUSIONAL]

131. HELL YES

[TayTay]

134. No, because it's too early

to close the door on anyone. A lot can happen between now and early 2007 when the actual race for the Dem nomination really starts. People can get sick, family members can get sick or get into embarrassing trouble, find they can't raise money, find their families don't want them to run, find out they don't really want to run and commit two years of their lives to that process and any number of other things.

It's too damn early to rule anyone in or out.

2006, now, there a different matter.

[Rainscents]

136. One thing for sure... Feingold will lose lot of womens vote if he vote

for Roberts! There's more women than, there men! This is known fact!

[Hippo_Tron]

146. Wait for his vote on O'Conner's replacement

If he and Leahy have tested the political waters correctly, than perhaps their yes vote on Roberts could ultimately be what saves Roe v Wade.

[JNelson6563]

139. No.

Russ has shown he's got a spine. I think he's a credit to us all, in spite of this vote. Name one other person of any party who had the balls to say "no" to the "Patriot Act".

Julie

[enough already]

140. He can forget my vote

Caving on Roberts is a monumental mistake, both morally and tactically, for Democrats.

[Idioteque]

141. I can't speak for everybody but I'll vote for Russ if he runs...

All of a sudden Leahy, Feingold, and Levin are DINOs while Biden and Feinstein are heros!? Bullshit.

Robert's isn't that bad, cetainly not worse than Rehnquist. I wouldn't vote for him but we shoudn't act like he is the worst we can get. He's gonna get confirmed regardless of whether or not Feingold supports him.

I applaud Feingold for voting his conscience. He is a maverick, always has been, and he would be a great president if he chooses to run.

[Chewy_dKos]

152. The reason he wont win....

Is because he is getting divorced....when is the last time you have seen a president w/o a first lady?

[Clarkie1]

142. It definitely won't help. n/t

[zara]

148. No as he never had any chance.

He is too genuine. Too trusting. A good man. Yet a dupe.

[Czolgosz]

149. Yes. Following his Ashcroft vote, the Roberts vote stinks even worse.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

151. Slim has now become none.

[confludemocrat]

153. Yes I do, baffling flip-flopping words and deeds conflict at crucial momen

He is a white male, there are no consequences for him personally either way, so it's an academic question really. As left liberals we are asked to choose among a set of professional fence sitters who have left tendencies but not from the heart, that's why Wellstone was so special his positions were from the heart. And we are told if we don't go along with someone like a Kerry, all will be lost, in other words fear, fear, fear. That's what got us to where we are: last four chief justices: Repub ideologues, all three branches in hard right hands. I won't vote for him under any circumstances now.

[dolo amber]

154. Not with me

:hi:

[ulysses]

158. thank you.

:)

[UrbScotty]

157. The IWR didn't hurt Kerry and Edwards in '04 (nt)