Who here is unhappy with a Kerry win tonight? Why?

[Melodybe]

I am unhappy because Kerry is an INSIDER! Dean, Edwards, and Clark are all relative outsiders. I think that Kerry is an elitist and it makes me made that the pundits will spin Deans loss into something to do with Saddam. It was a war of lies and Kerry refuses to get Bu$h for it. He is doing nothing but re-enforcing the crap we were told! He will not go after Bush. Kerry is a disaster!

Skull and bones plus his crap record does not make up for it. the man is the epitome of a pandering politician, America deserves better!

[parasim]

1. 3 words.

Skull and Bones.

[liberalnurse]

2. Yeap.....

Skull and Bones; Frat-brothers go hand -in-hand.

[mike1963]

34. I don't really think so. While S&B may be a sort of "uber-fraternity"

it's still basically the same as most of the goofy Greek organizations (I am familiar with them, having been in one in college for 2 years...then leaving in disgust - see below)

Not that I am pushing especially for Kerry, I am still undecided, but my own experiences allow me to know that past associations don't necessarily affect current positions. Hell, I even got dragged into the DeMolay thing for a while in High School, it was a 'cool' thing to do. It took all of 3 or 4 months for me to realize what a boatload of crap that outfit was. "Fidelitos" my ass...

[goddess40]

69. Could the elections be Freeped?

I'm really concerned that we have reps crossing over and voting for Kerry as I just don't see why he is so popular all of a sudden. At our Dem meetings no one has come out in support of Kerry.

[belladonna]

75. Repugs crossing over to vote for Kerry?

I'm going to assume that you are referring to the fact that he got over a thousand votes on the Repug ticket? Those are protest votes, plain and simple. Smirk has pissed off his conservative base THAT much with the immigration stuff and this is their way of saying FU to Shrub. Dean came in third, right behind Kerry, and Clark came in fourth.

The only conclusion to draw from this is a good one. That Smirk has so alienated his base that a TON of them will be sitting at home on their hands or voting third party in November. Let's hope that nobody on the Dem side does the same just because their guy didn't get the nod.

[goddess40]

81. Crossing over to get a Dem they like best

They will still vote for Bush on election day. If they come and vote for the Dem they like best they'll get their second choice if Bush loses.
I'm from Wisconsin and until Kerry won in Iowa NO ONE was talking about him in a positive light.

Someone on my Weight Watchers web site said * got 112 write in votes in the Dem primary. I can't see real dems writing him in, so I think some of the smarmer Reps have decided to pretend to be Dems to louse up our canidate choice.

When Dean came to Green Bay we had pro-* supporters protesting in the parking lot and I noticed 4 of them had put on Dean stickers and joined the crowd to 'listen' to Dean. They didn't really listen they sat there with look of extreme distaste on their faces.

[belladonna]

95. I'm not sure you understand

What I was referring to is the fact that Kerry, Dean, and Clark, ALL of our Dem candidates, for that matter, were write ins on the ballot for the REPUBLICAN primary. No, there will not be Republican's voting for a Dem instead of a Repug in the GE, it's more likely that the Repug's who are sick of Bush will simply stay home or vote third party. And that, in my view, is good news for us and bad news for Shrub. If they were crossing over to vote on the Dem ticket, then sure, I'd agree 100% with you. Not the case.

[eyeswideopened]

3. insincere

[MercutioATC]

4. I congratulate Kerry and his supporters, but I just don't feel that he's

our best chance to beat Bush, nor do I feel that he'll effect change to the degree Dean will.

[killbotfactory]

5. I don't think he's our best candidate

Or the most electable.

I think Dean, Clark, or Edwards would all do better than Kerry.

[Democrats unite]

6. Kerry is your usual Washington politician...

He has been there long enough to be an icon & he isn't. If Kerry is our hope in November... I don't trust him, he flip flops to much, IMO, God help us if he gets the nomination.

[blm]

7. And this is your fifth thread on how unhappy you are

about other American people preferring Kerry.

[Melodybe]

19. I am upset that people are buying the propaganda being feed to them

hook, line and sinker!

Jerry is the choice they want b/c they know the others are a threat. People voted for Kerry b/c the media lied and said that he was the best choice to beat Bu$h. don't believe me watch Kerry put on his gloves come October! Dean, Edwards, and Clark represent real change, Kerry is the same old, same old.

[DenverDem]

22. Real change?

Only Kucinich represents REAL change.

[blm]

36. You don't even KNOW anything about Kerry as per your posts.

You just found out yesterday what a probusiness politician Dean was as governor when someone inspired you to look up his corporatist record.

Kerry is the BEST environmentalist out of all the candidates and you don't get that by being probusiness as usual.

Why don't you learn about Kerry from real sources and you'll feel pleasantly surprised. Unless, of course, you don't LIKE progressive liberals.

www.johnkerry.com

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lyonn]

89. Got your msg. BLM

Many times over. Iran Contro, BCCI. Now, let's get current.

[Abigail147]

87. Dear BM

And this is your umpteenth thread reproaching anyone for their unhappiness.

[ClintonTyree]

8. I wouldn't say "unhappy"........

but I don't think he's the best choice. If he's our nominee I'll vote for him, but I think we could do better. Congrats to Kerry supporters though.

[woofless]

9. Just watch.

"He will not go after Bush." He will. Ardently and intelligently. Wait for it. He is a good man. You'll see.

[barbaraann]

10. Skull and Bones

n/t

[BeatleBoot]

11. Me because...

It isn't November 2nd yet...

I'll settle to vote for Kerry on Feb 7th! and Nov 2nd!!

[One Taste]

12. I'm unhappy because I feel Edwards is more electable

and if he would've come in 1st it would have put him way ahead of the others. But that was unrealistic. I could support kerry if he got the nomination.

[deminflorida]

13. It was expected and it's John's Turf......

The Dean Flame-Out in Iowa will raise it's ugly head over and over again.

I'm not upset, I'm sad that the media is Hell-Bent on sticking the party with the most vulnerable candidate against Bush in the General.

Speaking of the General....

Tomorrow it will be STOP THAT BASTARD AT ALL COSTS.....

Get ready for it, Clark Supporters it's coming......

[pocoloco]

14. Business as usual alright,

but it ain't over yet as I think next week will prove!

[grytpype]

15. I think Clark has better crossover potential.

Being somewhat acceptable to the center-right may make a big difference in the GE.

[librechik]

47. I agree n/t

But Kerry is a great guy and a great candidate. And I think he sincerely wants to get rid of Bush.

[sendero]

62. I think he does too....

... I just doubt that he can. The media has done a fine job of convincing voters that we don't want anyone with "passion".

Nobody give two sh*ts about Kerry's long term voting record, most voters are not that liberal anyway. When Kerry comes after Bush, Bush is going to ask him why he changed his mind - and Kerry's milquetoast answer will fall flat.

I'll vote for Kerry of course, but I think of the top 4 he is the weakest candidate because he doesn't have the stuff to take on Bush*. I'd love to be proven wrong, but so far I just don't see it.

And once more I'll remind everyone, you have to go back to JFK to find an example of a Senator getting elected president. But several ex-governors have been. Why is that? Because people know that folks who have served in Washington year after year have been co-opted. Simple as that. Kerry's the one to break that streak? That *would* be historic.

[ecstatic]

16. I am. He can't win against Bush

He hasn't stood up for Dems, or the American people for that matter, when we needed him the most. He must go. He is a career politician. Edwards, Dean, or Clark would be MUCH better choices.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Dean has been a politician for nearly two decades

Edwards is in the Senate and Clark earned money as a lobbyist. I really fail to see what qualifies them as "outsiders."

Given that his team includes people that resigned in protest from this administration, I guess the "insider" thing doesn't bother me so much.

To the "Bones" people, I saw the movie; they are about WAR...sometimes with each other..I want someone who WILL and CAN go to war with Bush.

Our country will always defend itself, create ineterests and HAVE a defense budget. I want someone who is LESS naive than Clinton was about the POWER of this dynamic. I suspect Kerry is.

[Melodybe]

21. Dean, Edwards, and Clark have actually helped people

Kerry has never stood up for us! Get real if you think he is going to start now.

Clark, saved almost a million in Kosovo, Edwards was a sucessful lawyer for the little guy, Dean fulfilled every campaign promise he made as Gov. of Vermont.

THEY WANT KERRY! HE IS BY FAR THE WEAKEST!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

28. I disagree. I watched him many times in senate hearings

Carrying legislation isn't all there is to legislation and legislating. Being acutely aware of the fine print and getting the message out is just as important..on many high profile issues such as Iran Contra, women's issues and Kyoto, Kerry has taken that initiative.

He is present on drafting and vetting even if he is NOT carrying bills..and frankly MOST bills are getting to Congress and the Senate via PAYBACKS to contributors...SOOOOOO....carrying lots of legislation isn't the ONLY duty of a politican...VOTING AGAINST it when it counts is just as important....so far I count three things that I am not happy with Kerry regarding out of MANY that I DO approve.

I am not happy with the war vote but feel his two options after the Rose Garden ceremony were BOTH poor options.

The Patriot Act was overwhelmingly supported and his votes on PSLRA appear to have turned out pretty damned bad.

Compared to his pluses on the environment, women's issues, and other defense related votes, I can live with a few BIG mistakes.

Heck..his wife's actions as a philanthropist are a HUGE plus.

[lyonn]

92. I too watch C-Span

Kerry does not come to mind when it comes to outspoken democracts on the Senate floor. Bills that he has initiated? Remind of some recent ones. He is not bad, just not very effective.

[belladonna]

37. You finally convinced me to stop lurking.....

I joined a few months ago, and decided that I'd lurk until the primaries were over. But seeing the attacks on Kerry tonight, especially yours, make me see red and I HAVE to say something.

Please, enlighten me as to what you have found in Kerry's voting record as a WHOLE that make you think he is such a horrible candidate for President? Or have you even bothered to look at his voting record? My guess is that you haven't, but feel free to prove me wrong.

For the record, I supported Dean until recently. I still like Dean and I LOVE Edwards. I decided after a lot of research and by listening with an OPEN mind, (try it sometime) to support Kerry. It sickens me to see people attacking Kerry in the same way they attacked Dean when he was the frontrunner. Kerry, Dean, Edwards, Clark, Kucinich.... they're all wonderful candidates, and I'd proudly cast my vote for any one of them.

Fact of the matter is, Kerry IS the most electable candidate we have. Is he without flaws? Nope, but none of them are. Dean's too angry, Clark's a Repug in Dem clothing, (not in my opinion, just the most popular charge against him) Edward's is too inexperienced, Kucinich is too far to the left. Again, these are NOT my opinions, just the mantra that will be repeated should they get the nod.

So, tell me what you REALLY know about Kerry, please? I find it so hard to believe that ANYONE who has done their homework could say the kind of things you've said about Kerry here tonight. I'll be waiting...

[HazMat]

49. Don't take these people seriously

Most Dean supporters follow anything he says, and think that the BFEE's first Iraq War (Gulf War) was just swell, a war that most Democrats opposed, a war that is responsible for most of our problems today, a war that really helped the neocons make inroads. Dean and his supporters have zero credibilty on foreign policy and everything else, as far as I'm concerned.

[lyonn]

93. Iraq invading Kuwait

At least we had the approval of most of the world. Didn't cost us much in the way of dollars and lives. Not so with this war. Kerry didn't consider what the consequences of going along with a Bush policy. Many of us did and worried. Sure enough, 6 more soldiers killed yesterday.

[spooky3]

58. Welcome to the land of posting, belladonna!

I'm an Edwards fan, myself, but ABB.

I'm really not sure about electability. I think I'll have a much better picture after Feb. 3, once we see how each candidate plays in states that are larger and/or more representative of the country as a whole demographically and perhaps in other ways. Clearly Kerry has the advantage of perceptions of more relevant experience, but he is not a compelling speaker. Which of these things matter more to voters in general (versus DUers who are more ardent and generally more informed about politics?).

[belladonna]

76. Thanks for the welcome

I'm not sure making my first posts in GD2004 was the BEST idea, but so far, no regrets. ;-)

As I said in my first post, I love Edwards too and will HAPPILY vote for him should he get the nod. As to electability, you do make a good point about waiting until after Feb 3rd to draw any conclusions as to which candidate is going to play well to a wide demographic.

As to Kerry not being a compelling speaker, I used to agree with you on that. I think that he is getting MUCH better with every speech and was very impressed by him this weekend in NH. And I really think that he's going to play BETTER to voters in general than he does to us.

One example of many: my mother, who I would classify, for lack of a better term, as one of the sheeple LOVES Kerry. Why? Just because he looks so damn presidential and she LOVED the interview on 60 Minutes and I think, in her eyes, he's SAFE. And I hear that from A LOT of people. They like Dean, but he scares them. They like Edwards, but the general concensus is that he just doesn't have the experience. They like Clark, but he comes across as too arrogant. They like Kucinich, but sadly enough, he just doesn't LOOK presidential and he's a little too extreme for their tastes.

Again, these are NOT my opinions of these candidates, just what I hear from people around me who are not as addicted to politics as I am. In a perfect world, none of us would depend on Brokaw and Rather and Jennings to form our opinions for us, but it is and has always been the case with the sheeple. So, in that way, I DO consider Kerry infinitely more electable than the others, with Edwards running a close second.

[Abigail147]

88. You sound a lot like blm.

Are you?

[belladonna]

96. Oh, I don't know, am I?

I don't know blm enough to draw any comparisons myself, but apparently you feel you do? Perhaps if you explain what being like blm entails, I can better answer your question.

[WilliamPitt]

45. Clue Phone Calling

http://www.issues2002.org/John_Kerry.htm

Nope...no help there.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DenverDem]

18. Kerry could have taken out Bush I for Iran Contra

but let him get away. Kind of like Bush I did with Saddam.

I'll still campaign, contribute and vote for him (Kerry) but I am not optimistic that his victory will effect the substantive change we need to achieve a sustainable world culture.

edit to add last graph

[Virgil]

42. Think of universal health care - Dean and DK n/t

You are exactly right on Iran-Contra. That is what made Kerry one of the boys.

[KissMyAsscroft]

20. Because it makes the election more pointless...

Dont get me wrong, I will vote for him over Bush.

I just don't think he will go after Bush, and I don't think he will change anything.

I dont think he will go after media deregulation, and he will be indistinguishable from Bush on defense.

Basically a more articulate Bush with the same baggage. No guts.

[Virgil]

23. Universal health care

Kerry is just as much a corporate representative as anyone else in Congress. He is as much a big business person as anyone else in the Senate. The health care system is broken and gamed by the insurance companies. If Kerry cannot be for Uninversal single payer health care he is not for the common man. It is a litmus test. I am for DK, but would rather see Dean beat Kerry on health care alone.

Outside of president I may vote strictly 3rd party as the Democratic Party and the Republicans on the whole support the same wealthy masters. Big money runs the country and I do not buy the "I will fight for you speeches." That is especially true of Kerry and Edwards that are in the Senate that did not do much to stop the big tax cuts for the wealthy or the Trade Authority handed over to Bush, much less the IWR. Then they did not even vote in the 48-45 pork bill that killed 8 million people's overtime.

At least Dean did not let the big money roll over him in the Senate and he is for Universal Health Care. So is DK and I will vote for the only person that really cares about the average person and that would be DK.

[fairfaxvadem]

24. i've lost count of the anti-Kerry posts on DU tonight.

I know a lot of folks prefer other candidates, but the tone about Kerry tonight is a lot like the anti-Dean stuff that was going around, ad nauseum, on DU.

I don't have to decided until 2/10 but I just don't have as strong a reaction against ANY of the Dem candidates as I've seen come out of so many posters here on Kerry and Dean.

I don't agree that Kerry is a lost cause as a candidate and I don't think Dean is the saviour of the Democratic party and the country. I do think that Dems, as a whole, including the base, just despise GWB so much, they aren't going to stay home, no matter which of the top 4 heads the ticket. And I just don't believe we are going to see any of them swayed by a Nader or other 3rd party this time, not after the last disaster. If the so-called "base" stays home due to Kerry or the moderates stay home because of Dean, then shame on them

I do think some of the groups within the Dem umbrella will exact a hard price at the convention and in endorsements but they will keep their eye on the prize to dislodge this horrible crowd.

[creativelcro]

25. There you go: sent another $200 to Dean

[auburnblu]

26. Kerry viewed as an elitist, no way

Yeah, he probably will be viewed as a not so poor guy. Might hurt in trying to cast Bush as an out of touch guy. I think Edwards has the best shot to make the argumnet that Bush is out of touch with the common guy.

[MariaS]

27. I Am

because I don't understand what is wrong with this country. Kerry is a sell out who rolled over and played dead for the Republicans. If he didn't vote with the Repugs then he abstained on the major issues of IWR, Medicare, & the Patriot Act which was a dereliction of duty. He is a multi-millionaire who has never had to relate to the kind of life that the majority of Americans lead. And the fact that he uses his time in Vietnam as having experience is bull. That was 35 years ago. He is the epitomy of everything that is wrong with this country and it's politics. If he somehow manages to pull this out and win the GE this country is toast. Bush will chew him up and spit him out. I have said this since day one and I will continue to believe that Clark is the only chance we have. My son has enlisted in the Navy and I do not do not do not trust Kerry to keep him safe and out of harms way. There is too much at stake and I am not willing to put the life of my child into the hands of someone like John Kerry.

[creativelcro]

33. I agree with all you say with the exception that I think about Dean

what you think about Clark.

[girl gone mad]

29. I'm disappointed.

Dems could win it on the Iraq War mistake alone, yet we chose the candidate who is weakest on that issue.

Kerry does not have the young support that Dean has. I'm young, I know many people my age and younger who are crazy for Dean and will become apathetic again if Kerry is the alternative. Kerry's an insider. He grew up priveleged and only decided to become a poplulist at the last minute... political opportunism.

[mb7588a]

32. Young people

and first time voters voted more on JK's side in Iowa. I haven't seen the exit polls from NH.

[maryallen]

40. Campaign War Cry: Where are the Weapons of Mass Destruction and ...

Why did we go to war with Iraq?

MAKE Bush answer that question.
Kerry is ill-positioned to ask it.

[OneBlueSky]

43. poll after poll have shown that people care far more about . . .

the economy, jobs, and healthcare than they do about the Iraq war . . . to think that the Democrats could win on the Iraq issue alone would be a huge mistake . . .

[frustrated_lefty]

30. His vote floats with the wind.

They asked who do you think really stands behind what he says. Response: Kerry, 17, Dean 50.

Kerry has the hair, I guess, and not much else.

[mb7588a]

31. This... combined....

with the "kerry needs to be broken" poll the other night is sickening.....

[dolstein]

35. What does Kerry have going for him other than his hair and Vietnam medals?

Seriously. Yeah, he looks presidential. Yeah, he fought valiantly in Vietnam. But at the end of the day, that's not going to be enough. He certainly doesn't have a compelling message. When he's not recycling Gore's "people versus the powerful" speeches from 2000, he's ripping off Edwards or Dean. He the consummate insider. He talks about everything that's going wrong in Washington. But he's BEEN in washington for 20 years. Although he's improved slightly, he still doesn't talk like a human being. And then there's the fact that he's from Massachusetts and has a voting record more liberal than Ted Kennedy's. That makes him more than a tough sell in the red states.

[copithorne]

38. For cryin' out loud

The guy is the return of Michael Dukakis.

I don't think he has a strong chance to beat George Bush. Clark and Edwards would make stronger candidates. Dean probably would. At least with Dean, you'd get a person who speaks the truth.

What are you thinking, New Hampshire, my home state?

John Kerry put together the Michael Whouley organization in Iowa and New Hampshire but he's beyond that now. We need Democrats in other states not to go with the flow, but to make their own decision.

[aldian159]

51. how is Kerry Dukakis and Dean not?

Dukakis and Dean:

Governors of NE states who claimed prosperity in an era where everyone prospered, wouldn't know national security if it bit them in the ass. Couple that with the horrid media perception both have (Dukakis and the tank; Dean and the scream) and the two are clones.

[Minstrel Boy]

86. Dean has fire. Kerry, like Dukakis, does not.

Dean is the closest thing the primaries have to a rock star. That brings its own liabilities, but one of them is not being mistaken for Michael Dukakis.

If Kerry is the nominee I of course will wish him well, but I have serious reservations that the Democrats can win with a "safe" DLC choice. Dean is not a safe choice, but he has the capacity to inspire.

[mike1963]

39. Yeah, god forbid we support a LIBERAL. I guess I'll just go with Joe.

And "doesn't talk like a human being"? I suppose the 4 languages I speak aren't enough, now I need to learn ... what?...duck? turtle? zebra?

I'm not committed to JK (or anyone else yet) but I don't understand why someone -in- Washington can't do a little bitching about what's wrong there. I live in the USA and it's no problem for me to find and complain about what's going on here...

:wtf:

[KC21304]

41. So then you would rather have someone who tells the red states

what they want to hear, kind of like Bush ?

[Forkboy]

44. One major thing Kerry has going for him

He's not Joe Lieberman.

[hope42mro]

48. heh nt

[dreissig]

53. The Vietnam Medals

Don't question the Vietnam medals, it's taboo. Kerry's operatives will come after you, make you sign some Notice of Infraction.

[belladonna]

73. I guess my question would be this

Why WOULD anyone question his medals? That being said, military experience is not THE issue for me in choosing a candidate. As I said, I supported Dean until 3 weeks ago. He has no military experience, nor did Clinton, a wonderful President who got my vote twice.

It CAN be a plus in this election, and it will be if Kerry takes the opportunity, as he did this weekend, to bash the smirking moron over the head with it every chance he gets. I didn't choose to suppport Kerry because he was in Vietnam or because he has some nice shiny medals to show for it. But added to his record on environmental issues and his ALMOST perfect voting record, it sure didn't hurt.

[hope42mro]

46. He's better than Bush, but still......boring? He doesn't inspire me

He strikes me as being the typical, privileged boy who grows up to be a statesmen. I mean, he's not a bad guy at all, and I don't believe that Skull and Bones nonsense, but he does seem too "Washingtonized", which is great for a senator, don't get me wrong, and I'm glad he's on our side. But when it comes to a heroic American idol my man is Clark. He represents the American dream to me. He grew up dirt poor, made good grades that eventually got him to Westpoint, then to Oxford. He represents in reality what alot of people only consider an idealistic notion: that through the opportunities America offers you can thrive, if only you take full advantage of them. Kerry doesn't carry that inherent message, that unspoken symbol of the American dream personified. He's just plain old politician. B-O-R-I-N-G.

Dean would be harder to elect in the GE, but at least he's interesting, he has energy for sure, and I really like that about him. Honestly I'd have more heart campaigning for Dean than Kerry just because Dean has so much inspiring energy. But he still is a silver spoon politician so he's not my American Dream symbol.

I want more Kerry's in Congress, more Dean's in the DNC, and more Clark's in the White House.

Oh, and I can't forget Edwards. He's alright, but he's Clinton, only with less experience.

[LosinIt]

50. Kerry lacks 2 things. The Mo. The Jo.

I am not in the least big inspired by any of his speeches. I just don't think he can fire up a crowd like Howard, and Clark and Edwards to a lesser extent. That said, congrats to Kerry supporters.

[lyonn]

94. and he stutters

Not good for a politician. When he loses his place he has a way of moving around and licking his lips and opening and closing his mouth without saying anything. During one campaign he did this to the point I felt sorry for him, realising he lost his place. One must be quick in this game. His speeches are pat and that truly works for him. Bush has his moments of pause that scares us all. What are they thinking?? No doubt he is better than Bush, but, how much?

[Piperay]

54. I'm not unhappy but

I wish it was Clark instead, :-( CONGRATS though to Kerry and his supporters!

[DoNotRefill]

55. I am.

New Hampshire was a defeat for "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."

They pretend to give us candidates, so I'll pretend to vote.

[Walt Starr]

56. I'm disappointed

This is falling into a trap similar to what the Republicans fell into in 1996. Only an outsider can beat Bush this year.

Add to that the fact that I consider Kerry at least ten times more boring than Gore and you can see that I believe a Kerry candidacy will end in failure. My prediction should Kerry be nominated: Bush wins in the biggest landslide in history.

[DemBones DemBones]

59. How can Skull & Bones be running the world if

it's also being run by the Masons, Opus Dei, the Illuminati?

Do they run it on alternate weeks or what?

[molly]

60. LOL! Good point!

[Beaker]

65. don't forget the bilderbergs...

they deserve to get a week too

[dusty64]

61. I guess deep down

inside it is just another bit of proof that I really am NOT like most people and obviously don't share their priorities. My take on this is that the majority of voters want nothing to do with bringing up our regime's horrific and insane foreign policy plans, why else would they pick a "safe" candidate who helped to push them through. Spin away if you'd like, but when I needed leadership and opposition from the Democrats they keep letting me down. I guess I should just get used to it.

[laruemtt]

63. i don't believe he's the most electable either.

i don't see him doing well in the south. but still congrats to his supporters for his win last night.

[Zynx]

64. One word describes Kerry for me: Icky.

I don't care how many bullets he took in Vietnam. It doesn't matter. His record, other than the overplayed investigations he took part in, is a record of following and not leading and making horribly wrong calls. What good is all of this "experience" when he makes the wrong calls? Not only would he be a bad nominee, I don't think he would be a very good president either.

[theHandpuppet]

66. I am wholly uninspired by Kerry!

I am an undecided who must admit that Kerry leaves me wholly uninspired.

I remember that elder statesman, Sen Robert Byrd, making those eloquent and impassioned speeches, hour after hour, in a vain appeal to the conscience of the Senate, only to find that Dem Senators such as Kerry grabbed their ankles for their regular Bush-furking.

Kerry is politics as usual.

If I can't trust that his military experience had no bearing on his reckless vote for the Iraq War and all that Bush demanded with it, then what's the point?

Is there any issue on which I believe Kerry would do the RIGHT thing, not just the politically expedient one? Sadly, the answer is no.

There is SO much riding on the fall election... the preservation of women's reproductive rights, the insuring of gay rights, an end to feckless war, protection of the environment, the creation of jobs and health care for all. I'm discouraged to admit that I cannot find it within myself to trust Kerry to deliver ANY of these things if it is not the politically expedient thing to do.

Just call me...

One Thoroughly Discouraged and Disillusioned Dem

[CWebster]

67. Oh c'mon

fall in line....ABB. Get with the program. ;-)

The tragedy is that people buy the illusion, first of all, that Kerry can beat Bush and then that is what they settle for: The candidate who is presented as the most electible, before he even has been in the headlights for a week. The sole criteria is beating Bush and that is based on a sales pitch that has yet to be taken on a test drive.

[Lexingtonian]

68. Lordy, how _did_ you survive the Clinton years?

And who packaged all these cliches for you? Or mistakes of fact?

All I read out of your post is the usual unacknowledged reason folks like yourself can't stand Kerry: class resentment/hatred. Somehow, if a candidate is/seems middle class, they're all virtue. By coincidence that is not a coincidence, I notice that competence is not a topic you consider.

[CWebster]

70. That sounds like a Republican charge

didn't they bring up class wars when Dems dared to question the tax cuts?

Yesterday I read a commentary about how the NYTimes stumped for Kerry and led biased attacks against Dean. Not especially a surprise--Kerry is a member of the club---wealthiest senator, NorthEastern blueblood, married two heiresses--affected pompous airs, status quo politician with liberal leanings on safe issues. But the real issue is that he reflects the lie that so many others, including the NYTimes, bought into, about Iraq and other things. People, perhaps, are more comfortable with leaders who bought the same lies--or claim to be misled, then they feel better about themselves for being so easily duped.

[creativelcro]

72. Could not have said it better, CWebster

[Lexingtonian]

74. C'mon, don't be a selective relativist

Republican 'class warfare' is when black people get more money and white middle class people object to carrying a disproportionate share of the tax burden. I'm talking about the old kind of class hatred, the one where the rich and poor consider each other dogmatically stupid and immoral. The rich-to-poor part is snobbt condescension, yes, but the poor-to-rich kind is known as anti-snobbism (itself a kind of snobbery, of course) and is as disgustingly unfair.

Well, the NYT is establishmentarianism at its worst. Their reason for embracing the Iraq invasion has mostly to with local opinion. And the charge about Kerry and the IWR...well, your interpretation is selectively Manichaean. It can't be refuted by facts because it contains the same error as the Republican argument about Saddam, an imputation of demonism that is religious dogma.

[Algorem]

71. He seems Dolian?

[Ripley]

77. As I said in another thread...

If Kerry gets the nom, I'll vote for him...what choice will I have? But I must say that anyone who thought Bush would eat up Dean and doesn't see that Kerry will get eaten up even more by the meatgrinder (Kennedy contact, Liberal Mass (GAY MARRIAGE, not civil union), etc. because he IS more liberal than Dean)...you will be severely shocked.

But mainly I disagree with Kerry as an opponent because I can see him pulling a Gore and agreeing with Smirky in the debates when we clearly need a great contrast to him, not nicey-poo. People will once again see no serious differences and stay home. Sorry, that's how I feel.

:boring: :boring: :boring:

[GreenPartyVoter]

78. Several reasons

1) he is not Dennis
2) he does not stand for what Dennis does
3) he does not appear to support the kind of election reform I am looking for in this country.

But even so, I'll give him my vote if the Dems give him the nod. I'll also give him a letter every week about election reform. (Sent him one today, actually)

[Snivi Yllom]

79. I am

for all the reasons you listed,

plus

I am not happy with someone who cannot admit they were wrong.

[Algorem]

80. I need to see notarized proof that he is not a lizard.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

82. Pablum Politics wins in NH.

The "play it safe", "not too liberal", politics of compromise and appeasement won in IA and NH.

I think that there may be some surprises in store for the DLC who believe that the Left wing of the party "has nowhere else to go" with our votes.

[Cassandra]

83. He runs hot and cold

and I'm worried that he will suddenly go cold at critical moments. I want Dean's passion in this race; we need it.

edit: see what happens when I don't run the spellcheck?

[MISSDem]

85. I'm starting to kinda like Kerry so I'm not

disappointed. Besides Karl Rove wants Dean to be the candidate; he was seen at a rally for Dean cheering him on. Also, Dean doesn't seem to have the temperament that might be best for this coming fight and then to actually be POTUS.

[NewHampster]

84. Its like serving steak to sharks

the repukes are salivating over the butchering they're about to do on Kerry. mass. liberal who is left of Teddy but votes with George or maybe not, but then why not. They will skewer him and its already starting on the radio.

Should be fun to listen in.

[AP]

90. I'm unhappy. The win was too big and runs the danger

of removing ISSUES and ideas as the things the campaign is fought upon, and replacing them with money.

[genius]

91. Dean is the insider. Ask Halliburton.

Their execs contributed to him.

[edzontar]

97. Kerry can be, and usually is, a very weak campaigner...

He is boring.

He doesn't really stand for anything.

He was good in the 1970s as an anti-Vietnam war leader.

Effective in the 1980s in the Iran-contra affair.

Did fine work a while back on the POW-MIA and Vietnam normalization issues.

Has a decent envorinmental record.


But he has drifted rightward to the DLC, Dem-lite, Joe Lieberman wing of the party in recent years, and has taken questionable positions on education, labor, and most recently, endorsed and then waffled on IWR.

He is probaly the least "electable" of the final four---because he has no real reserve of passion like the others do.

A limp dishrag, I fear, and most likely doomed to lose.