Attacking Howard Dean thru his dead brother.

[sfecap]

A new low. How venomous will it get? Have you no shame?

Charles Dean was executed by the Patet Lao in Laos.

He was listed as a MIA civilian (along with hundreds of others) by both the DOD and the Pentagon.

http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmsea/files.htm

http://memory.loc.gov/pow/powhome.html

Charles Dean was captured and executed. He was partially identified by the POW bracelet he was wearing.

Over that last few days, I've read posts here attacking Gov. Dean as a racist, attacking his wife for her appearance, and every other permutation of viciousness one can imagine.

The insinuation that Howard Dean lied about or misrepresented his brother's death is apalling. Surely there is a better way to smear this man. Howard Dean and his family were deeply, deeply affected by Charles Dean's death, and the manner by which it came. Howard Dean loved his brother, and to this day wears a belt that his brother wore. Last year Gov. Dean travelled to Laos, to the site where his bother was found, and helped excavate and search for other MIAs. He got on his knees and sifted thru the dirt with his hands searching for any fragment that could perhaps identify someone elses loved one. Charles Dean's remains have now been returned, and hopefully closure has been brought to a family that loved him deeply.

The glee with which some here use this to attack or demean turns my stomach.

You ought to be ashamed. Have you any shame?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. The written question was about relatives IN the military

That Dean can't read or understand English is the only defense for his deceit.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

10. Here's the problem:

"Mark Ridolfi, editor of the paper's editorial page, noted that the question had specifically asked about the armed services and said of Dr. Dean's reply, "It certainly is not an accurate response."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/23/politics/campaigns/23DEAN.html?pagewanted=print&position=

Dean's brother, mother, or father had nothing to do with the question- until Dean answered it.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sfecap]

6. Sad.

n/t

[SahaleArm]

2. Officially Classified Civilian: Status MM - Missing in Action

http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmsea/pmsea_info_d609.htm

DEAN, CHARLES
SERVICE: US CIVILIAN ( Complete Service Report )
STATUS: MM - MISSING IN ACTION
(PRESUMPTIVE FINDING OF DEATH NOT RECORDED FOR CIVILIANS)
DATE OF INCIDENT: 1974/09/10
HOME OF RECORD: NY ( Complete State Report )
COUNTRY OF LOSS: LAOS
VEHICLE TYPE: GROUND

Status Codes:

Individuals Accounted For:
AR - AWOL/Deserter/Collaborator Returnee
BR - Body Recovered
EE - Escapee (Not on State Reports)
KR - Died in Captivity, Remains Returned
NR - Remains Returned/Remains Recovered
RR - Returnee (Not on all State Reports)

Individuals Unaccounted For:
BB - Killed in Action, Body not Recovered
KK - Died in Captivity, Remains Not Returned
MM - Missing (Civilians only)
PP - Prisoner (Civilians only)
XX - Presumptive Finding of Death

[tjdee]

4. Still doesn't mean he was in the military/armed services.

There seems to be a problem separating one thing from the other.

Did Charles Dean die terribly? Yes. He might have even been in the CIA.

But he WAS NOT a member of the armed services. Period. CIA does not equal armed services.

I would not file this under opportunism by Dean--he can feel however about his brother as he has to-- but again, Dean is being imprecise.

Biggest deal in the world? No.

[SahaleArm]

5. Civilian - Look up n/t

[sandnsea]

13. Exactly, not died in country

in military service of his country.

[SahaleArm]

19. Status MM is for missing civilians n/t

[bearfartinthewoods]

20. apparently dean doesn't believe the CIA crap either

at least he didn't previously...who knows what story he'll try to push now.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/22/a_meteoric_rise_in_vermont_politics/

A short time later, Charlie embarked on his trip to Southeast Asia. It's not clear why he went. His father knew a man in USAID in Laos. Big Howard himself had traveled unenlisted to Africa and Asia during World War II seeking to be a part of the action. Later, some close to the Dean family speculated that Charlie could have been a spy because the Army listed him as POW/MIA, .a theory Howard Dean rejects.
.
And from ABC News:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/DailyNews/fielddean-5.html

There are still unanswered questions. Why did the U.S. government classify Charlie as an POW/MIA, when Charlie had never been in the military? Dean acknowledged that some members of his family thought Charlie was in the CIA, but he said he didn't believe that. He didn't know why the government had done that, he said, and no one from his family had ever asked. He would, as president, get to the bottom of that mystery, he said.

[thinkahead]

7. Apparantly the answer is no

there is no shame around these parts these days.

Do you have any idea how much work goes into campaigning? How easy it is to say one thing or misanswer a question while in the process of going through non-stop campaign events? Maybe he could have called for Mary for help. Dean has made clear on several occassions his brother was not in the military. This was either a mistake, or he was plainly referring to his brother's MIA/POW status. Dean is not so stupid as to think he could get away with lying on this issue.

But remember folks, this is a personal family tragedy. The loss of Dean's brother in no small way shaped Dean as a person. If you want to play gotcha politics about that sort of thing, there is another party with a big fat elephant waiting for you.

[bearfartinthewoods]

21. well if he isn't up to the stress of campaigning

maybe we ought to reconsider his fitness to be president.

this is the purpose of the primaries...to see how people hold up under stress because the job for which they are applying is the most stressful in the world.

as to whether he is stupid enough to think he could get away with it..
he's either stupid, a liar or a goulish exploiter of his dead brother.

your choice

[ibegurpard]

8. Innaccurate or not

It's a disgusting campaign tactic. Any candidate who would engage in it would never get my vote. Period.

[KoKo]

12. Clark supporters don't realize how many of us they have turned OFF to

their candidate by the constant attacks on the other candidates. I don't even read their stuff anymore, but this one caught my eye because it was a particularly vicious comment.

If General Clark promotes this kind of vicious, attack mentality in his supporters then he's no different from Bush and the RW Fundies. This viciousness has turned off so many folks here, but some Clark supporters seem to think that they are turning people on to him with this stuff.

This is the last one of these "gleeful" attacks I'm going to read on this board. And for the first time since I've been on DU I'm putting some folks on "Ignore."

[maddezmom]

16. the reverse is also true

it's sad all the way around. :(

[WoodrowFan]

26. what the hell does clark have to do with it?? (NT)

[mikehiggins]

9. What "glee"? This is a sensitive topic for a lot of Americans

If Governor Dean misunderstood the question, or if he feels the criticism is unjust he should simply say so. How hard is that?

Not dealing with it with dispatch simply means he's making a mistake, IMHO. I have reason to know how seriously this whole POW/MIA question is taken among many Americans and that is what I'm talking about.

[sfecap]

11. Look, pal...

You know EXACTLY what is going on here.

The fucking US Government listed Charles Dean as an official civilian MIA.

You want to use it to piss on Howard Dean, go right ahead. Frankly I am more sickened by Clark supporters everyday.

I will do everything I can to see that Wesley Clark does not become the Democratic party nominee. Bank on it.

[KoKo]

14. Yes, ABBC, might soon be the new posts around here, given these tactics.

:nuke:

[bicentennial_baby]

17. ?

"I will do everything I can to see that Wesley Clark does not become the Democratic party nominee."

Meaning?

[Renew Deal]

23. The only thread here

that are about Deans brother are started by you (a Dean supporter) and an Edwards supporter.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=21101&mesg_id=21101

[KoKo]

15. You are not preaching to alot of Americans here. You are on a Forum for

Progressives of supposed somewhat like minds. It accomplishes nothing.

[Skwmom]

22. Low is Howard Dean trying to use his brother

to make up for his evading the draft. Has Dean no shame?

[deminflorida]

24. No attack here, but does anybody know why was Charles Dean

in Laos anyway??? I don't know much background.

[bitchkitty]

25. No shame whatsoever -

it makes me sick to my stomach too.

[Moderator]

27. locked

don't carry arguments from one flamey post to another.

Thanks