Will big business support Kerry to stop Dean universal health care?

[Virgil]

I have interest in the media and big business in the matchup between Kerry and Dean. One big difference is that Dean supports universal health care and Kerry does not. The economy and health care were bigger issues in Iowa than Iraq and a number appeared here yesterday that said 60% of Americans supported universal health care. Personally, I believe if we give the Democrats the White House the people should at least get universal health care out of it.

So the people want universal health care and we know what big business thinks about it because we have the Clinton experience. So if people want to have universal health care their best bet is Dean and big business needs to side with Kerry. It will be interesting to see the donations and the issue itself is covered in the media.

My take so far is the media is controlling the debate. They continually raise the issue of electability when I have almost no doubt the next president will be Democratic. They are making a non issue to talk about when they could talk about health care, which is the second biggest thing in people's minds after the economy.

This is what gets me about the electability issue. George Bush did not win the last election with Ralph Nader drawing off votes. There is a movie called Unprecedented that can be seen over the Internet outlining how the election was stolen. If the military ballots that were dated after the election were not illegally counted, Bush would have lost.

He has tanked the economy, lied like all get out on everything, raped the environment, launched an illegal war to become a war criminal, grown a huge deficit while increasing spending, and let 0/11 happen on purpose while giving the media consolidation for covering his tracks.

The media is raising this electability thing as if the worst president ever that stole the last election has a chance. I would not vote for him just for not insisting on a paper trail for voting machines if he were as wonderful as the Pope. They did not even talk about the record turnout of 220.000 votes on tv tonight. It will be interesting if they mention what will have to be a big turnout next week that will shake Bush, once someone explains it to him.

The media is steering the debate. The telling issue is universal health care. My feeling is we the people should get universal health care out of this and fix it this election cycle.

America is badly broken and I am sure that Kerry will not fix it. He helped get us here in the first place. I have my reservations on Dean, but at least he says he will fix the health care system that sucks 15% of everything. That is what I am watching as the campaigns go on. I think I will stay in the Drug Policy forum, as this is the only big point I have.

People that love, love Kucinich.

[ferg]

1. big business and universal health care

I think businesses may be reevaluating their position with health care.

For most businesses, the current health care system is a nightmare. Even big automakers like Ford are finding that they're at a disadvantage vs countries that have UHC.

Now, I'm not sure they're ready yet to embrace "socialist health care", but it may be in a few years that even the big businesses decide that something like single payer works better for them than the current nightmare.

[cprise]

2. Insist on single-payer

Let them cry that its socialist. We'll remind them that capitalism doesn't work without socialist ideas to balance it out.

Free Market healtcare doesn't work.

[Myra]

3. Where did you get the idea that Dean is for universal health care?

He's not.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

4. I thought Gephardt and Kucinich were more universal

I think only their plans cover everyone.

[JohnKleeb]

8. I am not famliar with Gephardt's plan

but Ive heard Kerry say a number of times, I want every citizen in the US to get the same health care that members of congress too.

[Myra]

12. That's not the same as universal health care. Only Kucinich has a plan

for universal care.

Kerry wants us to be able to buy health care.

Everyone but Kucinich just wants to patch together the old
broken system.

[isbister]

14. and Sharpton too

doesn't he?

[Virgil]

11. It is on his website for one

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_health

For a year now, I have been traveling this country advocating a repeal of Bush's tax cuts so that we can provide universal healthcare and restore fiscal discipline. Many have questioned the political wisdom of challenging the president on politically popular tax cuts.

[maxr4clark]

13. What he has touted in the debates has been far from universal healthcare!

[mmonk]

5. Most of the healthcare campaign money

will go to bush and some to dems that tinker the least with their profits as they see it.

[George_Bonanza]

6. Dean does not support 100% universal health care

He may in the back of his mind (don't we all?) but he has yet to provide any plan for providing it. He does support universal health care for those under 25, while Kerry supports universal health care for all children. So they all have varying differences.

A note to take is that the vast majority of Iowans and New Hampshirites favoured Kerry to Dean when it came to health care.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

7. Affordable Health Care for Every American

John Kerry believes that your family’s health is just as important as any politician’s in Washington. That’s why he will give every American access to the health care plan that the President and Members of Congress already have. John Kerry has the courage to take on special interests to get health care costs under control. He will stand up to big insurance and drug companies that impede progress. And John Kerry’s health care plan takes care of our most vulnerable citizens by covering every child and preserving and strengthening Medicare.

George Bush has chosen to lavish tax cuts upon the wealthiest among us while working Americans struggle to afford health care for their families. John Kerry will take a different path. The American health care system has the world's best doctors and nurses, the finest hospitals and the most effective drugs. But far too many Americans can’t afford or access the system. John Kerry’s health care plan will start by expanding health care coverage to 96 percent of Americans – including nearly all children. Kerry is also committed to assuring high quality health care by including a strong enforceable patients’ bill of rights and reducing medical errors.
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/healthcare/
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/kerry_health_plan.pdf

[MercutioATC]

9. "Universal" is not necessarily single payer.

Dean's plan would cover nearly everybody, but would be an extention of FEHBP which uses private insurers.

[no name no slogan]

15. "Universal" isn't universal unless 100% of people are covered

Dean's plan would still leave 10 million people WITHOUT health insurance.

AND, Dean's plan is to provide health INSURANCE, not COVERAGE. There is a BIG difference between the two.

What does that mean? If you can't afford the premiums, you don't get insurance. Yes, Dean wants to cap premiums at 7.5% of income, but if you're only making $10,000/year (like many people with McJobs), you're still paying $750 per year for basic coverage.

Plus, you've still got the administrative burden of a bunch of private insurance companies and their avalance of paperwork. Right now, adminstrative fees account for 15% of insurance costs-- compare that to 6% for Canada's universal single-payer system. Dean's plan would do little to reduce this, since the old system would still be in place-- but it would be subsidized with MORE of our tax dollars. IOW, more profits for healthcare insurance companies and HMOs.

DK's plan would impose a 7% tax on employers (which could be split with employees) and would provide TRUE universal coverage to EVERY American-- including medical, dental, eyeglasses, etc. Compare that with the 12% that businesses are currently paying for healthcare-- and for a smaller amount of benefits, to boot.

Our spiraling healthcare insurance costs are making us uncompetitive with other industrialized countries. Many big businesses are not creating new jobs here because they cannot afford the cost of healthcare benefits for their employees.

According to Pew research, over 60% of Americans want a single-payer, universal healthcare system, and that includes over 50% of Republicans. We CAN afford to do this, as it's cheaper than what we're paying now for substandard healthcare.

We're already PAYING for universal healthcare, but we're just not RECEIVING it.

[MercutioATC]

17. Those "10 million" are those expected to opt out. They're not uncovered.

Your premise on premiums is also completely false (don't you even listen to Dean before you criticize his plan?).

Below something like 150% of the poverty rate, you pay nothing for health insurance. As your income increases you gradually pay more, to a MAXIMUM of 7.5% of your adjusted growth. If you then lose your job, your income is zero so your premiums return to zero (while you get to keep the insurance). Additionally, FEHBP (the plan Dean wants to expand) has no exclusion for pre-existing conditions, which makes it fundamentally different from most "health insurance".

Anybody who wished to retain their current insurance would have the option to do so (that's where the 10 million number comes from).

Yes, it IS different than a single-payer system. I believe it'll be easier to implement because insurance companies will have no reason to lobby against it and it's the same plan our Congressmen have. Disagreeing is fine, just please try not to misrepresent the facts.

[dumpster_baby]

23. Dean's "plan" would be almost as expensive as it is now!

Dean's so called universal health care is not much different than Bush's new plan. It still comes down to TOO EXPENSIVE for unemployed or lower income people or even middle income people who are self employed.

But you already know this, right?

[MercutioATC]

25. False false false! The poor pay ZERO under Dean's plan.

Premiums are income-based to a MAXIMUM of 7.5% of adjusted gross income. No income? No premiums.

Don't you even LOOK at the plans before you start criticizing them???

[cryofan]

32. really? That sounds good, but I heard otherwise

Do you have a specific link?

[MercutioATC]

33. He's said in just about every speech where he's discussed healthcare...

lemme look.

[sandnsea]

10. Dean's health care is federal

That's the biggest lie of his campaign. First, 96% of children are covered in Vermont, although he has gone from the true figure to 99% to ALL children. New Hampshire and Iowa have 94% of children covered. They are covered under SCHIP. New Hampshire actually has a better program for covering families than Vermont under their state program. Dean brags about his immunization record, another Clinton program. Prescription drugs came in through medicaid waivers. He hasn't done anything in Vermont without the federal government.

Kerry does have a plan for health care that is accessible to everyone, just like Dean. His basic plan is a little cheaper and is simply buying into the exact same federal insurance Congress has. Dean's plan is to create a whole new plan LIKE the one Congress has which would have gotten labeled as a big federal program. Kerry's isn't a big new federal program and that's why it's better.

Kerry's plan also is alot more comprehensive on cost control and helping small business provide insurance and helping reduce premiums to people who already have insurance.

It's a better plan because Congress is actually the one who has been creating these health plans for the last 20 years, not Howard Dean.

[MercutioATC]

20. Incorrect. Dean's plan uses FEHBP, not "a whole new plan LIKE" it

He's repeatedly said that he'd expand FEHBP. That's not a new plan, contrary to your characterization.

[sandnsea]

28. Nope

He'll expand SCHIP and Medicaid.

And, for people who don't qualify, "we'll organize a system nearly identical to the one federal workers and members of Congress enjoy." That's a big new government program that won't fly.

Kerry:

"Nine million Federal employees get health care through the Federal Employees Health Care Benefits program (FEHBP), which offers a wide range of plans with good benefits. The Kerry plan will allow every American access to this system. With tax-based incentives to employers and tax credits to individuals and the self-employed, the Kerry plan will ensure that this coverage is affordable."

Plus having the federal government pick up SCHIP completely and automatically enrolling children in exchange for states offering more programs to adults. And a host of cost cutting measures that will work. His plan is 10 times better than Howard Dean's.

[MercutioATC]

34. Well, actually, you're right and wrong, sort of...

His plan is built on the same framework as FEHBP and will require any insurer that offers a plan under FEHBP to offer an identical plan under Dean's plan.

I'll agree that it's not the exact same plan, but it's esentially identical and my arguments as to why it should have very little problem passing Congress still hold true.

[blm]

16. Dean is FOR the big pharma corps. Kerry's for legalizing medical marijuana

Which one do you think the establishment wants?

I think you don't understand the actual platforms and history of Dean and Kerry.

Riling the Dean camp with false info?

[TopesJunkie]

19. Please explain --

And, for the umpteenth time, medical marijuana is a waste of energy. All the energy, money and time spent on this questionable pharmaceutical could have helped make real change in the health care of millions in this country, but, alas, it has gone to very little.

[TopesJunkie]

18. Big Health Care Business Might -- Watch those donations! --

[rucky]

21. So, what is Kerry's healthcare plan, anyways?

and how does he intend to pay for it?

DK's ready to cut 15% of the pentagon budget to pay for a plan that is truly universal. Not even fiscally responsable Dean is willing to do that. How far is Kerry's plan from the ideal?

[sandnsea]

30. Combines tax cuts & reducing costs

The repeal of the tax cuts for the wealthy and corporate tax cuts plus cost cutting measures. Everything isn't listed here, most people don't read all the details.

1. Nine million Federal employees get health care through the Federal Employees Health Care Benefits program (FEHBP), which offers a wide range of plans with good benefits. The Kerry plan will allow every American access to this system. With tax-based incentives to employers and tax credits to individuals and the self-employed, the Kerry plan will ensure that this coverage is affordable. The most vulnerable groups, including the unemployed and retirees below age 65, will be covered.

2. To hold down premiums, the federal government will reimburse companies for 75 percent of catastrophic claims totaling more than $50,000, provided they pass the savings on to their policyholders.

3. In a new compact with the states, the Federal government will pick up the cost of Medicaid coverage for children in exchange for automatic enrollment of all school children eligible for the Children's Health Insurance Program. Eligibility for coverage will be extended to 300 percent of poverty-level incomes for children, and coverage will be extended to the six million single and childless adults who are uninsured and live below the poverty line.

4. A 75 percent tax credit to assure workers can keep their health insurance between jobs.

5. The annual cost of health care in America is $1.4 trillion. About 25 percent, or $350 billion, is spent on non-medical items, principally paperwork such as billing and record-keeping. No other industry is so inefficient. This expensive drain on the system can be cut in half with modern technology. Kerry's program will offer a "technology bonus" as an incentive to health care providers and insurers to update their procedures and switch to electronic records.

6. Using the federal government's purchasing power to induce giant drug wholesalers to pass along to consumers the rebates they get from the drug manufacturers; getting more affordable generic drugs to the market, giving states the flexibility to negotiate better deals, and allowing people to buy quality drugs through Canada.

[progressivebydesign]

22. If Kerry wants to give us all health coverage....

Okay. It's not as if Kerry is an outsider. He's been taking a taxpayer salary for years and years... So, if this is such an important issue to him now, why the hell hasn't he done anything about it BEFORE he runs for president? Some meaningful reform while the Democrats controlled some things in D.C. would have been nice. I would welcome proof that Kerry has initiated anything in that direction while he's been working in D.C. Authored any bills? Ran any committees on it? Called for any investigations? Mentioned it before he was running for president?

Dean has a proven history of providing health insurance for the children, and most adults in his state that needed it. As well as reduce child abuse and teen pregnancy. It is part of who he has been for decades.

And..for people on this thread to insinuate and outright lie about Dean's position on providing health care to everyone, or to tie him in with pharmaceutical big business makes me ashamed to be part of DU. He opposes Bush's lame prescription benefit because it benefits the very same companies that someone here has tried to tie him too. Hey.. I'm all for supporting my candidate. But spreading misinformation about other candidates to help yours, is wrong.

[sandnsea]

29. SCHIP, AIDS, Immunizations

Most of Dean's health plan came from Congress. They have been doing alot for health care. People just liked Dean's red meat and never bothered to check out the facts or listen to us when we were trying to give them to you.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. The insurance vultures will be equally happy

with Dean or Kerry. Both plans leave them plenty of the pie.

[kerryistheanswer]

26. Dean is not proposing universal health care

In fact, his proposal and JK's are not all that different. So I don't see your point.

[MercutioATC]

27. kick

[sandnsea]

31. kick for a Kerry health plan n/t