I like Kerry but his record is a treasure trove for Rove...

[fujiyama]

Ok, let me start off by saying I like Kerry, inspite of his vote for the PATRIOT Act, the Use of Force Resolution on Iraq, and the various other reasons every other person on this board hates him for.

His record is liberal. Very liberal, overall. That may just be the problem.

I know many don't read the New Republic, because it's a "neo con rag", and I agree that their stance on the Iraq war was wrong and stupid, but if you have accesss to an online database service such as LexisNexis, I would definetely check it out. The name of the article is "Bring It On?" by Michael Grunwald. Note, I'm just summarizing a few points made in the article. I'm not posting anything copyrighted. I want to make this clear, because I don't want this locked. I also don't want this degenerating into a "hate Kerry or Stop Kerry" Thread. I want it to do an honest discussion over his voting record. Actually, I think we should do this about all the candidates. Let's keep it civil though. The article documents his '96 campaign against Governor Weld, where Kerry was re elected by only 7 points, in a state where Bill Clinton won by a whopping 34 points. It's true Weld was a popular governor at the time but his campaign may be seen as merely a preview of Kerry's record.

Here are some votes Rove may have some fun with:

First of all, I would say that Kerry's opposition to the DP will hurt him. Philophically, Kerry is opposed to the DP. He was opposed to even giving it to terrorists untill recently. At one point, Weld had a cop's widow next to him, and asked Kerry, in a very Dukakis like situation, why the cop's life was worth less than the criminal's. Kerry's response was great -- he said "I know something about killing. I don't like killing. That's just a personal belief I have."
Of course, many will say this shows how much he has flipped on that issue, especially considering he voted for the use of force resolution against Iraq.

Kerry also has opposed mandatory minimum sentences for those accused of selling drugs to minors. He also voted to have alchoholics and drug addicts recieve social security benefits (he claimed, justifiably that many were Vietnam vceterans). I thought his rationale was right for both of these, but I doubt it wil fly with many Americans. He voted for various tax hikes, including the gas tax.

Some positives IMO (though they may hurt him): He voted AGAINST the Defense of Marriage Act. He also voted against this Bankruptcy Bill a few years ago, which was voted for by Lieberman and Edwards, which basically dealt with restructuring bankruptcy. It mostly hurt people declaring it because of healths costs, business disasters, etc. He was absolutely right, and it proves he's not nearly as friendly to business interests as Lieberman.

However, with all this said, his record is long. After reading about Kerry, I admire his early stances, when he was less cautious, less calculated. He has become very much a standard politician over the years, and it's been more apparent since Bush took office (not surprising because he was definetely goin to run).

[slinkerwink]

1. exactly!

I just don't see how he can win in the general election.

[molly]

9. Easy -- his record!

look it up - it's the best one out there!

[blm]

15. Because he's SMART. Kerry sells liberal positions with moderate language.

Dean was selling CENTRISM with coopted internet message board language.

[Mobius]

16. Kerry wont win the General Election

Why do you think he hasnt been attacked yet? Repukes know this...

[xchrom]

2. there's not one democratic candidate that's liberal

who will not make fodder for rove.
and it's not even the point -- that article beats liberal candidates before they get out of the gate -- or it attemprs to.
your argument buys into the myth that there is no belief tht a liberal can have that has a resonance in the larger american community.
well that's the job of the campaign managers and handlers -- and it's the job of democrats everywhere to realise that a good offence beats a good defence damn near every time.
nothing beats the fact that george lied about the war -- nothing.
and if kerry squanders bullets like that then that's his fault.
the record of this admin makes the election kerry's or anybody elses to lose.

[GalleryGod]

3. You're looking for a More Reckless,Shoot-from-hip, 49 State loser

Read 1972
THEN 1976 Hmmmmmmmm
1988
THEN 1992.

With all due respect I think you'd be more comfortable in the Socialist Labor Party:pals:

[fujiyama]

4. Are you saying...

I'm a Dean supporter?

If so, you're clearly mistaken. I've stated my resevervations about Dean many times on this board.

I also know that Rove will smear anyone of them as an "out of touch liberal".

That's a given. The thing is with Kerry, there's a huge voting record and archive of speeches on the senate floor.

[bowens43]

5. So you buy into the

liberal bad , conservative good crap? I don't. As we have seen in recent days, rove isn't the genius some make him out to be. He is defeating bush for us.

[Must_B_Free]

6. "His record is liberal. Very liberal, overall. That may just be the proble

sorry, had to stop at that sentence.

[union_maid]

7. Making those issues resonate with America is going to be job 1

That's so with any candidate. The death penalty is very popular. That's a symptom of our national sickness, IMHO. Dukakis bobbled the handling of the question. That doesn't mean he was wrong in his answer. This country's approach to crime, punishment and addiction is archaic and sick. Our candidate, whomever it is, needs to be popular enough to be a Democrat, not a Republican on matters like this. If Kerry is the man, then I hope he's getting ready, not to defend, but to sell his positions to the people. That's what Democrats are for.

BTW, I didn't know about Edwards' vote for the Bankruptcy Bill. That's disappointing, if true. I'd like to know more about that.

[overground1]

8. At least Kerry HAS a voting record. Clark's only voting record is Nixon.

[magatte]

10. only Nixon...?

Wow, the hate, the hate... the Fear.

:eyes:

[overground1]

12. you're right... I forgot Reagan and Bush. Sorry.

[BeatleBoot]

11. You're right

I think we should just lock our doors and be afraid.

Let's just quit now.

[DemNoir]

13. Keep Spreading Doubt and Fear

And don't forget to look under your bed at night for Karl Rove. It is the Presidents record we should focus on. How would you like to have to run on that? I wouldn't.

[xray s]

14. If I were Rove I'd be sweating Bush's record.

Kerry's record is split between votes that are "liberal" and "conservative", so I think he may be able to protray himself as non-ideological.

Bush' record, on the other hand, is a record of "miserable failure" soaked in extreme right-wing ideology and special interest cash.

I would take defending Kerry's record over Bush's record any day.