What happens to Dean's passion if Kerry wins?

[Goldom]

I'm not asking yet again if Dean supporters here would vote for Kerry in the GE, seen that poll 50 times too many. What my question here is:

Dean has energized and passionately moved supporters better than anyone else in the primary, or any other election in years. If he comes in 2nd or 3rd to Kerry, will his followers be so disheartened as to not vote for Kerry/not vote at all? I know most all the people here still would, but what about the general public?

Best thing I could see happening in event of a Kerry victory, is Dean supporting him and campaigning for him... I can't see it happening in a million years, but I think his support would really help out anyone else who gets the nomination in the GE.

[Anwen]

1. THAT is why I am afraid of a Kerry victory...

I have a feeling if Kerry wins, Rove is going to shred Kerry to pieces from every which way, and Kerry doesn't have the energy and passion to rally people behind him. Sure, he will probably win because a majority of the people are ABB, but then again the undecideds might not be inspired enough to go out and vote.

[creativelcro]

2. Well, I'd vote for Kerry if he wins the nomination.

but I'd definitely not go out bust my ass for him. And if it rains a lot, I may not even go out and vote, frankly.

[robsul82]

26. Here's my slogan should Kerry win the nod...

Kerry 2004 - It Better Not Rain.

Later.

RJS

[blm]

3. Big deal. They tried to tear Kerry down for over 30 years

including a Scaife funded project against him. Guess what? They failed.

[Anwen]

9. That's nothing...

Just wait until they barrage him with 24-hour news coverage painting him as too liberal, to wishy-washy, too "French"...you know these people have no shame. That will eliminate many Republicans considering a cross-over vote. And eliminate basically the entire South. And then they will say he voted for the war, etc....eliminate many liberals.

It's just going to get ugly and I just don't think he's the right man for the fight.

[dsc]

11. I really wish you would take seriously what people are saying here

Kerry won 4 statewide races in MA. Dean won 5 in Vermont (6 if you count Lt Gov.) Both had one very tough race. Both won them fairly handedly. Kerry, this supposed target, didn't even have a Rpublican opponent in 2002. Yet now the press has succeded in turning Dean into some sort of whacked out angry man who is unfit to be dog catcher.

No one out side of MA, knows who Kerry is. The press will attack him, and unlike the case of Gore, won't have to make up things to do it. I sincerely hope the people in his campaign aren't blithely dismissing this to the extent you are. If so, we are in for a massive defeat.

If you don't believe me on this, go to a public area in NC and ask 50 people to name three things about Kerry. If you get more than 5 who can do that I will be shocked.

[blm]

37. Well, so far I've been the one who is right.

People on internet message boards who thought THEY controlled the primary are WRONG.

They miscalculated. The American people are going to more influenced by the support of Kerry and his candidacy by Fire Fighters and Veterans than they will by internet message boards.

Be glad that we'll have a candidate who is a real liberal who speaks to moderates using elegant language instead of a centrist who sells himself like an anarchist.

[sallyseven]

12. Never worry about Kerry

He saw the ugly side of the world a long time ago. He saw what Lee Atwater did to the Duke. He beat the living heck out of Bill Weld. He will fight back at anyone who tries to harm unfairly. I hope Dean will fully support him if Kerry wins. More important that Dean's people will. People will not fall for the trash that rove tries. They are forewarned. I don't know if anyone saw Max Cleland on stage with John Kerry last night. The headless people on chris matthews commented on it. Said that the republicans had called him a traitor for not voting for something the president wanted, and go away with it. It shocked me. That they would admit that the repuks were dirty.

[janx]

4. That's exactly my worry. Kerry represents politics as usual.

He also has a lot of baggage that the wingnuts will use against him very readily. They're already referring to his vote for IWR.

[molly]

6. Tell us about the baggage?

[Abigail147]

34. Kerry joined the race later because he had to deal with medical problems.

I'm not sure what the rules are regarding this, but if you don't think this will be an issue, think again. Kerry looks tired and loses his train of thought. He is a wonderful man, who has contributed much to the people, but his time is past.

[blm]

40. THIS is politics as usual?

Kerry was ostracized by most of Washington for his dogged investigations.

>>>>>
Kerry and the Iran-Contra Fight
Before the conventional wisdom sets in on Kerry as some kind of careful pol with no bite, folks should reach back and remember his role back in the 1980s in challenging the whole Reagan administration ties to money laundering, drug running and the Contras down in Central America. Kerry was willing for years to face down the CIA, the Justice Department and narco-terrorists in pursuing the dirty dealings of the Reagan-North network of rightwing drug-linked paramilitaries.

http://www.nathannewman.org/log/archives/000945.shtml

[molly]

5. Kerry has the maturity and the wisdom and the energy

to tear Rove a new one. If the undecideds want to save this country - they will vote.

[Abigail147]

35. Somehow I do not think he has the energy to even

keep up with those two young children. You can paint him any way you want. Anyone with eyes to see can see that energy is simply not there.

[DoNotRefill]

7. If you'd been stabbed in the back by corporate interests...

and the "same old same old we've gotta be like the Republicans" crowd, would you go out of your way to help them win election?

If the DLC pretends to give me a choice, I'll pretend to vote.

Bush Lite is NOT acceptable.

[Smirnoff]

15. Help

Ok, I don't pretend to know nearly as much as most of the people on this board. I try and keep up, but I'm more or less just now getting interested in politics. So, if someone wouldn't mind... what is the problem with John Kerry? I listened to him in Iowa and New Hampshire, I like what I hear, so what the problem? I do like Howard Dean more I think, but honestly I haven't made a decision, so I would really like to hear all your opinions on everyone.
:dunce:

[Anwen]

23. Hi Smirnoff!

Here's my opinion :)

I don't have anything against John Kerry as a person. I'm sure he's a great guy -- but in my opinion he is not what America needs. I don't see that much changing if Kerry gets the nod -- and IF he wins against Bush. (See my post #1) Dean has energized the Democratic field like no one else, and his entire campaign is based on grassroots action. He gets all his money is small amounts from lots and lots of supporters -- not having ties to special interests is the only way to get real change. I also agree with just about every position of his -- repealing all tax cuts, health care for everyone, etc. ALSO Dean was the only guy who spoke out against the war when Kerry and other Dems were signing the bill giving Bush the go-ahead.

I'm at work right now and can't type much more, but those are just a few reasons why I'm supporting Dean. Check out his website if you'd like... www.deanforamerica.com

Thanks for listening! :)

[Smirnoff]

24. Thanks!

Thanks for you help! Maybe this is something I should know, but what office does John Kerry currently hold in the White House? Was he in support of the war when it first came about? I've heard that Wesley Clark was. If you have time I would love to hear more of your opinions, as I'm trying to form my own. If you want you can send me a private message. Thanks! :)

[Anwen]

28. You're welcome!

P.S. You've got mail!

I answered you questions in an email becasue I wasn't able to private message you for some reason. Please feel free to ask more questions if you've got some! :)

[Smirnoff]

33. ok

Thanks! I'm about to get off work and then I'm headed to class, so I'll check it when I get home this afternoon. :)

[On the Road]

29. Hi, Smirnoff!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

By what "office does he hold", do you mean his job title? He's a Democratic senator from Massachusetts.

When Bush was preparing for the Iraq War, Kerry expressed some concerns but voted to authorize Bush to take whatever action he needed to take. He has since said that he was misled by Bush. (Anyone please clarify if I'm being inaccurate.)

I doubt Kerry would have invaded Iraq if he had been president. But his willingness to defer to Bush's decision concerns Democrats who wanted their leaders to actively oppose the war, and to oppose the Republican agenda more broadly.

Wesley Clark was similarly not actively opposed to the Iraq War. He did not have the responsibility of elective office, and could hardly have been anti-war as a TV commentator on the war, but still, he chose that gig. Clark has been increasingly anti-Iraq-war since announcing his candidacy.

[DoNotRefill]

31. That's like giving a convicted armed robber a gun...

and then acting surprised when he robs somebody with it.

[Smirnoff]

32. ...

Yeah that's what I meant... :)

So, basically you think that things will stay almost the same if Kerry makes it? I mean I see that he's not the best candidate, but why would that make people not want to vote at all. A little change is better than nothing right?

So what is it about Dean that you really like?

[blm]

39. Dean's record is the most corporatist of all the candidates.

Kerry is the best ENVIRONMENTALIST. Corporate whores don't get highest ratings by environmental groups.

You do know that even the Sierra Club refused to endorse Dean for ANY of his races don't you? He was TOO probusiness for them.

[Monte Carlo]

8. IMHO, no matter who the nominee is, Bush is still the man to beat.

And that, possibly more than the merits of any single Democratic candidate, could motivate Democratic voters to get to the polls on election day. It is said that in these races, the voters judge the incumbent more than the challenger.

[CWebster]

10. I don't know

he treated Dean pretty badly. Another reason I can't stomach Kerry.

[Smirnoff]

16. What did he do to Dean?

[CWebster]

18. Are we living in alternate universes?

[Smirnoff]

25. Maybe, but that's not an answer.

[Cheswick2.0]

36. I think a majority of Dean people would vote kerry

but not all and I don't think most of them will work for him.

[ma4t]

13. what happens? not good

I'd lay 50-50 odds that if Dean fails to get the nomination he'll run on a 3rd party ticket.

[Anwen]

17. I think the odds are a lot lower...

but if that did happen I would still vote for Dean!

[onecitizen]

14. That would go against........

his reason for being in the race to begin with. He will help whoever gets the nod but I don't expect him to campaign for Kerry.

[trogdor]

22. I think you meant to reply to #13

I agree with you. A third-party candidacy goes against what the Dean movement is all about. I surely won't go along with it, and if they put it to a vote over at DFA, I doubt they'd get even 10% support. Dean people are more ABB than some people give them credit for.

[dsc]

19. I would depend on how he won

If he is behind massive push polling that was done against Dean, if he paid for the Osama ad, if he did other underhanded things, I will have a massive problem.

[izzie]

20. I do so hope we keep it.

n/t

[Northwind]

21. The passion goes on, but not with the Dem Party

A growing number of us are starting to look beyond 2004, regardless of its winner. Talk has shifted to the creation of a new party, one based on common sense policies that aid all Americans, in short, one based on the policies of Dean. If the Dems nominate Kerry, the strongest part of Dean's support will leave the Democrats for good. We will attract people from all walks of life and all social stations. We will not pander to one specific group, but will work together for all Americans. The passon is here to stay, where it stays is still in question.

[Abigail147]

38. The Democratic Party has disappointed me

once too often. I am with you.

[Duder]

27. What happens is we lose...

The passion dies and some will go through the motions of voting for the lesser evil and some of the more independent and new voters will figure why bother and stay home on election day. Kerry supporters will blame 4 more years of Bush on the BFEE/corporate media while the DLC will spin the loss as proof that it's the fault of the "liberal elitists" and confirms that the Democratic Party needs to move further to the right.

In other words... nothing changes.

[On the Road]

30. I Will Vote for Kerry, But My Passion Dies

Perhaps that's unfair, but I can't change my heart.

To me, Dean is another Clinton. Kerry is part of the establishment who went along with too much of Bush's agenda for my taste.

[maggrwaggr]

41. Dean needs to stay in the picture and encourage everyone to VOTE

that's my take on it.

If Kerry gets the nom, my passion will die quite a bit, but if I see and hear Dean reminding me to get out there and vote, I'll be more inclined to keep up the fight.

Not that I wouldn't vote, I'm thinking more if I were someone less likely to vote.