Kerry Won With His Gut. "Establisment" was Dean/Clark. Kerry Dead & Buried

[WiseMen]

Some are saying that Kerry's Iowa/NH victories was a DLC strategy. Well nothing could be further from the truth. The "Establishment" was for Dean or Clark. Kerry had been long dead and buried by the Party insiders.

Kerry was always viewed as having too liberal a record and too controversial a past to win the critical moderate center of the electorate. Kerry is also regarded as somewhat stand-offish from mainstream DLC activities.

That Kerry was written off is clear from the financing picture: All the Non-Dean money was going to Clark and to a lesser degree Edwards.

Kerry was cut-off. He wasn't getting any money at all. He had to refinance his home to continue.

The Stop Dean plan was clear: Dean would beat Kerry and Gephardt in Iowa but emerged battered. Clark would blunt Dean’s rise in NH, if not win. Dean would walk into withering opposition as he went south and west in a 2 man race with Clark.

That was the expected best-case scenario of Clinton-wing of the Democratic establishment. The rest of the establishment – Gore, Harking, Bradley – accepted Dean’s inevitability and was focused on making Dean as polished, acceptable and electable as possible – including a new foreign policy posture, a new religion posture and a new tone.

Kerry won using his own gut and hard campaigning with good support from the “Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party,” that is, Ted Kennedy and his own eclectic base of Veterans and environmentalists.
He has earned the respect of all Democrats.

[Snivi Yllom]

1. then why is MacAuliffe calling for Dean to drop out?

?

[PVnRT]

5. Don't inject logic into it

The Anyone But Dean crowd will spin anything any which way to smear Dean however they can.

[sangh0]

10. You call that logic?

McAuliffe calls on Dean to drop out so Kerry had DLC support?

How is that logical? The only way to use logic to show that Kerry had DLC support would be to find evidence that the DLC actually did something that helped the Kerry campaign while doing nothing for the other campaigns

[w4rma]

24. DLC Shifts Behind The Scenes To Kerry Camp

PHILADELPHIA. — The Democrats' presidential primary war between diehard liberal activists and pragmatic party centrists intensified this week at the Democratic Leadership Council's meeting here.

Democratic pollster Mark Penn, who polled for Bill Clinton, warned of a huge "security gap" among voters who trust President Bush and the GOP to do a better job than the Democrats to safeguard national security in the war on terrorism. "If Democrats can't close the security gap, then they can't be competitive in the next election," he said.

All of them warned that the party would lose next year's elections if it did not match the president's toughness on national defense.

The big unreported story at the DLC's meeting is that Mr. From is positioning his influential DLC network to back Mr. Dean's chief rival for the presidential nomination, Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry.

Mr. Kerry voted for the congressional war resolution to send forces into Iraq, but he has also been sharply critical of Mr. Bush's failure to build a much stronger coalition for the war and for his handling of postwar operations.

Still, Mr. From points to Mr. Kerry's centrism on issues such as free trade, his support for welfare reform, and hints that school choice vouchers may be worth trying on an experimental basis.

"I think Kerry could be a very effective nominee. I think Kerry could run as a New Democrat ," Mr. From told me in an interview.

The DLC does not endorse candidates, but Will Marshall, who runs the DLC's Progressive Policy Institute, has been advising Mr. Kerry. And Al From's embrace of Mr. Kerry is the closest he has come to publicly backing a candidate. Notably, he mentioned no one else in the Democratic pack.

What worries Mr. From most is the party's weakness on defense in an age of terrorism. "The problem with is that we're not in the debate on national security," he said.

But grass-roots Democrats say the party's energy and anger right now is all on the antiwar, activist left which is fueling Mr. Dean's headlong drive for the nomination. The DLC had its day with Bill Clinton's skillful political use of centrist-leaning triangulation. Now, say Mr. Dean's supporters, "it's our turn."

---

Before you get your panties in a bunch, here is some info to show that Kerry is anything but a centrist, anything but a corporate hooker. The DLC comes to Kerry on policy, not the other way around.

Here is a link to a favorable DLC article about Kerry's progressive, corporate crime-fighting economic plan:

"Kerry's long-term growth plan focused on measures that simultaneously promote fiscal discipline while encouraging the right kind of economic activity. He called for the elimination of "offshore tax havens and shelters that enable corporations and executives to evade an estimated $70 billion in taxes each year," and also recommitted himself to the legislation (itself based on a Progressive Policy Institute proposal) he earlier offered with Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) to eliminate corporate subsidies in the tax code and the budget through a "base-closing commission" model.

Interestingly enough, Kerry called for elimination of a specific federal program -- the Fossil Energy Research and Development program that provides R&D for oil companies -- as part of an assault on corporate subsidies. Kerry is keeping the ball rolling in a new competition among leading Democrats to make hard choices about federal spending."

http://www.johnkerry.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6144&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=-1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=9699

DLC lines up against Dean's re-regulation remarks

Gov. Howard Dean delivered a good speech on "Enron Economics" in Houston Tuesday. It echoed Sen. John Edwards' lines about the Bush administration's determination to shift the tax burden from wealth to work, and earlier speeches by Sen. Joe Lieberman and others on the importance of corporate responsibility. It even appropriated a concept championed by the DLC, and endorsed by President Clinton, that we need a "new social contract for the 21st century, based on shared responsibility and our country's deepest values," to guide economic policy. The speech had us hoping that Gov. Dean might take to heart the challenge from Sens. John Kerry and John Edwards to offer America answers, not just anger.

Unfortunately, in an interview with a small group of reporters, Gov. Dean suggested that his answers might be a lot like his anger -- driven more by reflexive opposition to Bush than by a well thought-out effort to solve America's problems. According to Jim VandeHei of the Washington Post, Dean said the answer to the corporate excesses of recent years was "a comprehensive 're-regulation' of American business."

"The former Vermont Governor," reported VandeHei, "said he would reverse the trend toward deregulation pursued by recent presidents -- including, in some respects, Bill Clinton -- to help restore faith in scandal-plagued U.S. corporations and better protect U.S. workers." Dean also "listed likely targets for what he dubbed as his 're-regulation' campaign: utilities, large media companies, and any business that offers stock options. Dean did not rule out 're-regulating' the telecommunications industry, too."
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=131&subid=192&contentid=252220
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=88535

The only way to use logic to show that Kerry had DLC support would be to find evidence that the DLC actually did something that helped the Kerry campaign while doing nothing for the other campaigns.

[sangh0]

27. I still don't see the logic

The only way to use logic to show that Kerry had DLC support would be to find evidence that the DLC actually did something that helped the Kerry campaign while doing nothing for the other campaigns

All you presented was a journalist saying that the DLC was supporting Kerry. There are no statements and/or actions from the DLC or a DLC operative demonstrating that support for Kerry.

[w4rma]

30. "...I think Kerry could run as a New Democrat ," Mr. From told...

"I think Kerry could be a very effective nominee. I think Kerry could run as a New Democrat ," Mr. From told me in an interview.

There are no statements and/or actions from the DLC or a DLC operative demonstrating that support for Kerry.

[sangh0]

32. That's the sign of DLC preference for Kerry??!!!

Your argument is based on such an innocous comment? I could see Rove saying the same exact thing. In fact, many Repukes have said something similar:

"Kerry could be a very effective nominee. It could be a real close election"

Is the GOP supporting Kerry?

[w4rma]

34. more: Will Marshall, who runs the DLC's Progressive Policy Institute, has

...
The DLC does not endorse candidates, but Will Marshall, who runs the DLC's Progressive Policy Institute, has been advising Mr. Kerry. And Al From's embrace of Mr. Kerry is the closest he has come to publicly backing a candidate. Notably, he mentioned no one else in the Democratic pack.

What worries Mr. From most is the party's weakness on defense in an age of terrorism. "The problem with is that we're not in the debate on national security," he said.
...
http://www.johnkerry.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6144&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=-1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=9699

[sangh0]

42. That's not "more"

Fortune tellers use more facts than that!

And Will Marshall has given advice to several candidates.

[WiseMen]

35. Of Course, The DLC will now support Kerry, since he is winning.

Remember. Kerry was not a DLC founder. He was an example of
what the original DLC wanted to stay away from -- 93% liberal record.

[w4rma]

41. Article was posted, Thursday, July 31, 2003 (n/t)

[sangh0]

43. and the article demonstrates nothing

except that Will Marshall gave Kerry (and other candidates) advice. So, of course, the DLC is behind Kerry.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

48. All that indicates to me is that the DLC doesn't want to lose

and frankly, I would bet money that if Kerry prevails, we will see Clark on the bottom of the ticket.

[WiseMen]

61. Somewhat irrelevant really

[KC21304]

28. There is an ABD crowd ? Where ? On DU? Link ?

[WiseMen]

82. I can't find it either.

[maddezmom]

14. when did that happen? n/t

[drfemoe]

18. WHAT? When, Where?? You got sources? . eom

[Snivi Yllom]

38. here

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17679

But Dean, who stressed his status as the Washington outsider, must win at least one state next week in order to remain a realistic contender. "He is cooked if he doesn’t win next Tuesday in the Sunbelt," said Brad Bannon, a Democratic political consultant in Washington, D.C.

Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe echoed that sentiment in a New York Times article. Noting that nine states will hold contests by Feb. 4, McAuliffe said, "If you haven’t won in one of the nine states in all the regions of our country, with all the different constituencies involved, then I think it’s time to reassess your candidacy." When pushed to name one such state on Fox News by Brit Hume – who cited McAuliffe's comment – Dean replied that he would instead "put a finger on Terry McAuliffe," suggesting that the DNC chair should remain above the fray and not get into the business of winnowing the field.

[drfemoe]

44. thanks .. Nine states hardly represents a majority

I'd say win*place*show are all viable positions. With this many candidates expecting an early *winner* is a little unrealistic. People have been saying for ages that no one was paying attention yet. Now they start paying attention, and show's over? I don't think so.

[sangh0]

46. Your cite contradicts your argument

You originally said "then why is MacAuliffe calling for Dean to drop out? "

Nothing in that story supports your assertion.

[WiseMen]

57. Total Missuse of source. Sadly at pattern.

[DJcairo]

71. When did MacAuliffe call for Dean to drop? You are lying

[WiseMen]

81. Anyone who has not won a state after feb 3 should reconsider. That is all

[HPLeft]

75. That's the first that I've heard of this

I have heard no such thing. In truth, the Party heavyweights supported Dean, not Kerry. In that context, McAuliffe would never be asking Dean to drop out.

[bloom]

2. I have to admit...

hearing Ed Gillespie at the American Conservative Union going on and on about how liberal Kerry is - made Kerry sound pretty good. :)


When we all see how much the Republicans are against our nominee - it will be easy to support him. Since it is like them being against us.

[T Roosevelt]

3. Kerry's the establishment candidate

along with Gephardt (gone) and Lieberman (hopefully gone). Note that they in total are losing to the non-establishment candidates (Dean, Clark, Kucinich, Sharpton, and to some extent Edwards who has coopted the outsider message).

[blm]

8. Wrong. Establishment loathed Kerry.

Kerry was ostracized by most of Washington for his dogged investigations.

>>>>>
Kerry and the Iran-Contra Fight
Before the conventional wisdom sets in on Kerry as some kind of careful pol with no bite, folks should reach back and remember his role back in the 1980s in challenging the whole Reagan administration ties to money laundering, drug running and the Contras down in Central America. Kerry was willing for years to face down the CIA, the Justice Department and narco-terrorists in pursuing the dirty dealings of the Reagan-North network of rightwing drug-linked paramilitaries.

http://www.nathannewman.org/log/archives/000945.shtml

[sangh0]

11. Your fact-free argument

is very persuasive. Please continue

[WiseMen]

83. In contrast to who: sharpton?

[Justice]

4. I Agree With

Kerry won.

That is about it.

[Sean Reynolds]

6. Kerry won because he pushed the Dean can't win meme!

Not because of his ideas. Go look at some of the polls out this week and you'd see that a majority of voters LIKED Dean better, they felt he was the best candidate that was closer to their ideals. But in the end, he just wasn't electable - thanks to Mr. Kerry. Sad thing is, how the hell is Kerry electable? He's a boring New England liberal. He'll lose the south and a score of western states.

Kerry won ONLY because he beat the anti-Dean meme into the minds of the voters; not because he's a better candidate or people agreed with him on the issues more.

[sangh0]

19. No, Kerry won because people agreed with him

that Dean can't win.

You can blame Kerry all you want, but the voters are the ones who count.

Not because of his ideas

So, "Dean can't win" is not an idea?

a majority of voters LIKED Dean better

We're electing a president, not a beauty contest winner.

Kerry won ONLY because he beat the anti-Dean meme into the minds of the voters; not because he's a better candidate or people agreed with him on the issues more.

Of course not. Kerry won ONLY because he's the worse candidate and people DISAGREED with him on the issues. That's how you win elections!

:eyes:

[cindyw]

7. Very insightful. Everybody here is so eager to talk about a split in the

party. One side, the Gore side, with Dean. The other, the Clinton side, with Clark. Kerry has been alienated by the party. He won despite them because he shed his connections and started talking to people an listening to what they were going through. As president, he would take what the people of IA and NH have told him about their lives and it will affect how he runs the country.

To now say that he was the establishment candidate, is a falsehood created by the media because they don't know how to explain his wins. They fail to see the efforts of the firefighter, the vets and those of us who despite being made to feel alienated by other democrats, saw a president in John Kerry.

[rsdsharp]

31. Two points

First, Iowa and New Hampshire are different animals. The candidates are there for months, even years. (I know, I live in Iowa). Although the ads seem to dominate all TV and radio commercial breaks, the candidates also spend a great deal of time actually meeting and talking to people, and not just the big dollar givers. AND, because of the unique positions occupied by Iowa and New Hampshire, their citizens aren't shy about asking questions, and expecting answers. That gives them an opportunity to connect with a candidate on a level closer to a statewide election, such as governor, or senator. In some cases, such as with Carter in 1976, the level of contact approaches a congressional candidate in his district.

Second, I personally think most voters are trying to balance two issues: which candidate most closely matches their views (who will be the "best" President), with who do they think has the best chance of being elected. And who is perceived as having the best chance is influenced by a number of things, including who has momentum, what the media is saying, and how the opposition, Republican and Democratic, are responding.

I have to think most Democrats at this point are ABB. If a candidate who was a close second or third choice on the issues looks like he has a better chance of being elected, voters who aren't absolutely committed to a candidate switch. I did. And that was before Dean made his Iowa speech with the attendant flap (deserved or not).

[Leilani]

65. Clinton has been helping ALL campaigns

advising all candidates, & former Clinton people are working on every campaign.

Maybe Clinton encouraged Clark to get into the race, & since he is a novice, he may have gotten some help. But Clinton has been neutral, & I would like to see proof that Clinton actually backs Clark. Gore endorsed Dean, Clinton did not endorse Clark.

[Terwilliger]

9. ummm....what?? The establishment was for Dean???

:crazy:

I think your conspiracy theory is just that.

[WiseMen]

13. Are you saying the Biggest Unions, Gore, Harking, etc Not "Establisment"

Both Clinton and Carter have in the past praised Governor Dean for
his effective governorship and credible leadership in the Party.

[Terwilliger]

26. Well, I'd like a cite quoting Clinton praising Dean in any way

that seems unlikely

Well...lessee...Gore endorsed Dean, and people here at DU were ready to lynch him. Harkin...hasn't he changed his endorsement already? I don't think he's supporting Dean now. Biggest unions? Well, AFSCME and SEIU aren't the biggest, and the Teamsters went to Gephardt.

Kerry, Edwards, and Lieberman are establishment candidates...Clark, maybe...I think anyone who's been paying attention over the last couple of months can see that Dean is no part of the Dem establishment. Most of the time they want to see Dean gone.

[maxr4clark]

12. Clark is establishment, Kerry is not? You've got to be kidding!

Donna Brazile, all the media, every pundit has dismissed Clark's candidacy.

Clark is running due to the Draft Clark grass-roots movement. Clark is virtually unassailable by the Rove machine; if the party leadership were supporting him, there is no question in my mind that he would be the nominee. It is only the fact that he is truly an outsider to the political process that there is doubt whether he will get the nomination.

The main obstacle to a Clark presidency is him getting the nomination, not him beating Bush.

[TopesJunkie]

15. Believe whatever you want to believe --

But man that claim does tickle my funny bone.

[AntiCoup2K4]

16. Dean and Clark are DLC?? Dude, whatever you are smoking.....

pass the bong over here!

[mmonk]

17. Interesting twist

but I ain't buying. Dean and Clark clearly are on the outside (endorsements don't determine that, the party bosses' attitudes does).

[Raya]

74. Is this why top "Washington" lobbyists are now running Dean's Campaign

[KoKo]

20. All one needs to do is look at who endorsed Dean and the list of donors

to Dean's Campaign and you will see the difference. Dean was NOT backed by the establishment. Go to the Federal Election Commission's site and check out the donors names and contributions for both and you can see for yourself.

Dean and Kucinich were the only ones who said "Election 2000 was stolen. Kerry said "Get over it."

Yeah shove it all under the pile of Dung: The missing WMD, Stolen Election, Imperial PNAC taking us to war over LIES! Corporate giveaways and cover ups for Enron and the Major Banks, Mutual Funds and the rest, the dismantling of social programs it took decades to fight for and win.

I'm waiting for Kerry to address any of this for real and not just take Dean and Kucinich's talking points and parrot them. Not only has Kerry copied Dean and Kucinich he's now exaggerating his accent to try to sound like the real JFK.

It's going to take alot of work for me to accept John Kerry as the "new voice" for the Democratic Party. He's a retread copy cat in my mind right now.

[blm]

22. I disagree with EVERY point you made.

Kerry has addressed everything you said very emphatically.

[KoKo]

23. When he starts to talk about the "Blue Dress in Baghdad" (Robert Sheer's

Column/Salon) then I just might take another look at him. Humph!

[WiseMen]

25. Kerry's Speeches More Radical Than Dean's Since 1971. Check Record

[drfemoe]

21. "Non-Dean money" ? huh?

Kerry written off from the financing picture?

Where do you think Dean got his "Dean money"? Are you familiar with who his contributors are and how much their average contribution is? Is this a conspiracy by the *American People* to deny Kerry money to run for President? :wtf:

[WiseMen]

29. Not at all. Just that Democrats and Establisment Fundraiser Rejected Kerry

Ave Democrat as well as Establisment Fundraisers were still
sending money to Dean and Clark. And I am very familiar with
Dean's various fundraising channels. The Internet was just one.
Ask Trippi if you doubt that.

[Skwmom]

33. Dean and Clark the establishment candidates?

This statement is absurd.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

36. Bingo!!!! Kerry began talking to the people in PERSON....

instead of being a Preacher telling the people what to do.

[Eloriel]

37. That's just laugahable, WiseMen

Trying to spin Gore, Harkin and Bradley as "the establishment" is easily one of either the most naive or most ill-informed bits of rhetoric I've seen on DU.

Kerry won using his own gut and hard campaigning with good support...

Kerry won by co-opting Dean's message and convincing scared-to-death-of-Bush voters that he is more electable, which is as delusional as his other opinions of himself. Oh, and some dirty tricks too.

He has earned the respect of all Democrats.

Uh, not even close. Especially with his characteristically narcissistic botox/silicon trick. :puke:

[WiseMen]

39. Gore & Bradley are some of the Biggest DLC leaders. Why Deny That

[Terwilliger]

40. Bradley??

Now you're REALLY reaching

[WiseMen]

52. Check it. Bradley was not founder, but very in line with DLC.

http://www.counterpunch.org/bradley.html

Indeed, on the big issues, trade, labor, defense, crime, health care and the environment, Bradley and Gore are pretty much indistinguishable. Both sedulously follow the neo-liberal line charted by the Democratic Leadership Council back in the late 1980s. In the past Gore has pandered to the right, on issues such as race, crime and tobacco. Bradley's signals to Wall Street that he's their man are, even in these lax times, shameless well beyond the point of indelicacy. In the one-paragraph statement on economic policy on the Bradley website, phrases such as "prudent fiscal policy", "open markets", "lowest possible tax rates" and "keep capital flowing freely" bow and scrape from every line.

[drfemoe]

64. I found out today why some *Americans*

seem to believe in the "elect-ability" of Kerry over Dean.

... Some of them don't believe other Americans are ready for the kind of change that they themselves long for. They underestimate the Will of the People. Why? Because that has been our "training". That has been the brainwash. "There's nothing we can do." "Our efforts are in vain." It isn't that they don't believe Dean would make better decisions, serve the country in an honorable, fair, beneficial manner. They just don't believe that it's POSSIBLE for enough regular *Americans* to enforce these ideals. The programming is beginning to unravel. From my POV, more and more of us ARE waking up and coming to the realization that real change and responsible action from our public servants is achievable. We've got to convince the rest of the willing.

** a lot of DUers probably don't even remember the days when we called politicians "public servants". They are elected to SERVE. That title has been forgotten in order to co-opt our Power. We now have "government officials" to describe a position that was designed to be one of SERVICE.

45. Al From's statements contradict this

I heard Al From being interviewed on public radio last night and he certainly sounded like he was backing Kerry.

I found this quote also @ http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/12/con03388.html


"In the December 23, 2003 issue of the L.A. Times, Al From, of the Democratic Leadership Council asked, "Why is Howard Dean running away from Bill Clinton?" adding, "That's no way to build on the progress of the most successful Democratic president of our time."

[sangh0]

47. Anti-Dean is NOT pro-Kerry

How does a statement that makes no mention of Kerry show that the DLC supports Kerry?

50. You don't have to believe me

& I don't have a link, but I know that From sounded like he was backing Kerry to me on the radio last night when he was interviewed. In that peculiar way politicians and diplomats have of not coming straight out and saying what they believe, but you can tell just the same.
Of course, it's just my opinion about how he was leaning.

post 34 above says this -- "The DLC does not endorse candidates, but Will Marshall, who runs the DLC's Progressive Policy Institute, has been advising Mr. Kerry. And Al From's embrace of Mr. Kerry is the closest he has come to publicly backing a candidate. Notably, he mentioned no one else in the Democratic pack."

post 30 makes a similar point. as well as post 24.

[sangh0]

51. I dont have to believe you??? I think I'm obligated to disbelieve you

After all, the only "evidence" you've provided is your own perceptions. Am I supposed to believe something because "That's what I was told by some guy on the Internet"?

And Will Marshall has been giving advice to several candidates. So what?

54. this isn't a court of law

I do wish I could find the interview I heard with From on the radio last night, but I haven't been able to.
Perception has more to do with political decisions sometimes than evidence anyhow.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-Kerry.:)

56. actually From probably prefers Lieberman

but like I said reading between the lines, I stil think he is backing Kerry and Edwards also. I did find three examples in recent articles that are why I believe this:

from
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/la-na-lieberman22jan22,1,5473181.story?coll=la-news-politics-national

Joe Lieberman deserves as much credit as anybody for bringing the party back to its core values," said Al From, founder of the Democratic Leadership Council, the intellectual heart of the party's moderate faction.


from http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/012604dnpolclinton.1b32e.html

"Anybody who's running for president – who really wants to have a chance to win – should figure out how to build on Clinton's legacy," said Al From, founder of the moderate Democratic Leadership Council.
--snip --
Mr. Kerry "wants to create his own tradition," said spokesman David Wade. "But he's said repeatedly, across the country, that if you like the economy you had for eight years under Bill Clinton, you're going to love the economy you'll have under John Kerry."


from
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/politics/ny-usrace2113634911jan21,0,5301614.story?coll=ny-lipolitics-headlines


Al From, founder and chief of the centrist Democratic Leadership Council, said Dean's after-caucus statement to supporters in Des Moines was a perfect example of why voters abandoned him for Kerry and Edwards. "He looked absolutely like he was out of control," From said, calling the caucus result "a triumph of hope over anger" and the only viable approach to defeating President George W. Bush this fall.

[WiseMen]

68. The Mind is a Terrible thing to waste.

[KFC]

49. Of course Dean is "Establishment" - he was elected Governor of VT

Several times. Can't get more Establishment than that.

Actually all of these guys are Establishment, with the possible exception of Sharpton.

[WiseMen]

53. Of course. Almost by definition. But Leaders Abandoned Kerry

[WiseMen]

55. Dean's Endorsement by Gore/Bradley Clear Signal of Establishment Choice

Al Gore was one of the founding members of the DLC. He was Vice President and the 2000 Democratic Candidate for President. How much more Democratic Establishment credentials do you want to see.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles7/Nader_DLC.htm
Al From, the founder and soul of the soulless Democratic Leadership Council(DLC), assembled his flock in Philadelphia recently and warned his comrades about a takeover of the Democratic Party by "the far left." Launched in 1985, the "far right" DLC grew to have a controlling interest in the Party through the efforts of then-Governor Bill Clinton, Senator John Breaux, Senator Al Gore and Senator Joseph Lieberman.




http://www.counterpunch.org/bradley.html

Indeed, on the big issues, trade, labor, defense, crime, health care and the environment, Bradley and Gore are pretty much indistinguishable. Both sedulously follow the neo-liberal line charted by the Democratic Leadership Council back in the late 1980s. In the past Gore has pandered to the right, on issues such as race, crime and tobacco. Bradley's signals to Wall Street that he's their man are, even in these lax times, shameless well beyond the point of indelicacy. In the one-paragraph statement on economic policy on the Bradley website, phrases such as "prudent fiscal policy", "open markets", "lowest possible tax rates" and "keep capital flowing freely" bow and scrape from every line.


http://www.progressive.org/nichols9904.htm
. . . . . . . . . . . .
A resolute free marketeer through most of his career, the Democratic alternative to Gore actually shares the Vice President's worst tendencies when it comes to international trade issues. Three days before the 1993 Congressional vote on the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), a New York Times article outlined the deep political divide within the Democratic Party over the plan to abolish tariffs and trade barriers with Mexico and Canada. The article identified the bill's leading supporters as Al Gore and Bill Bradley, both of whom declared, "To defeat NAFTA endangers the Presidency." Bradley added: "The days of the forty-year career on the assembly line of one company making one product are over."

This was not a momentary deviation for a man who has often kept company with the Democratic Leadership Council. "If I had to put a label on Bradley, I'd say he was a New Democrat before there were New Democrats," says Richard Aregood, editorial page editor of the Newark Star-Ledger. No shock then that Bradley, who since leaving the Senate has been employed as a senior adviser at J.P. Morgan & Co., counts among his top backers Starbucks chairman Howard Schultz, Barnes and Noble chairman Leonard Riggio, and Disney chief Michael Eisner. As Randall Rothenberg, author of The Neoliberals: Creating the New American Politics, once explained, "Bradley's economic savvy has made him a darling of the financial community."

It has not, however, made him the sort of candidate who might be able to attract strong labor backing. During his almost two decades in the Senate, Bradley's AFL-CIO ratings sometimes dipped into the sixties, far below those of Ted Kennedy and even Al Gore.

[progressivebydesign]

58. Then why is DNC's top exec working on Kerry's campaign???

Hmmmm? When Kerry has the staffers leaving him, WHO came into the organization from Democratic HQ?? What was her name?? Loaned executives.. yeah, a real outsider.

Dean has been trampled by the establishment Democrats. Your assertions are wrong and intentionally misleading. If Dean was the DNC or DLC guy, then why is Al Gore endorsing him? Hmmmmm??? He was burned by them.

I will support Kerry if he gets the nomination. But he is as establishment, business as usual, as they get. He's been in public life for years, and had the opportunity to make the changes Dean is talking about (and even Kerry is talking about now), and he hasn't. He's a Beltway insider. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't try to pass him off as some outsider icon of the new Democrats. That, he ain't.

[WiseMen]

59. I said they are all part of establishment. But Main Dem. Est. Dropped him

after he fell way behind Dean.

That is the fact.

[Raya]

60. Really Weird how Dean Supporters can pretend Gore Harkin not Establishment

I can't understand it. After Harking endorsed it was as plain
as day that big boys had decided to go with Howard.

[ibegurpard]

62. Gore establishment? That's a laugh

If that were the case he'd be our nominee.

[aldian159]

63. The job was his till he said no

That's when everyone else threw thier hats in the ring, when Gore said no.

[HPLeft]

77. Yep

I wish that Kerry had received those endorsements. But he didn't. The party was coming to reward Dean. The people of Iowa and New Hampshire had another idea.

[gulliver]

66. Kerry's the status quo candidate.

He isn't really an establishment candidate. Unlike Clark, Kerry won't bring in any new blood. Also, unlike Clark, Kerry will lose us the south.

We may still win with Kerry, but the win is less likely than with Clark and not as far reaching in terms of rescuing our party from the status quo. With Kerry, the status quo is what you see and what you get.

[stickdog]

67. War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Grassroots Insurgency is Establishment.

[Myra]

69. And don't forget the dirty tricks, attack politics, nasty fliers, and

refusal to answer questions about his IWR and Patriot Act endorsements.

"He has earned the respect of all Democrats."

Exaggerate much? Many here, myself included, have zero
respect for this despicable man who put politics over principle,
and personal ambition over respect for life and a nation's sovereignty.

I wonder what the survivors of those killed in Iraq would say
about their respect for John Kerry.

[zulchzulu]

70. Kerry won because Iowa and NH voters did their homework

The voters looked at all the candidates and saw who was a leader, who has depth and years of solid experience and who can beat Bush. The base of voters who went for Kerry is far and wide and deep. Not going for a candidate whose support is a mile wide and an inch deep with simplistic cliches was the rule.

The voters did their homework because they know the risk of handing Bush a very important election with a lesser candidate.

[HPLeft]

76. Bravo!

Well said.

[democracyindanger]

72. FYI, Kerry is a DLC member

Go look him up in their directory.

[Raya]

73. Kerry worked for DLC on major project. So What. Gore's a Founder.

Gore etc decided to support Dean and DLC went after Clark.

[Cheswick2.0]

78. DLC says Kerry is their guy

sorry about that

[WiseMen]

79. Kerry is everyone's guy now. Just like Dean was DLC guy when he was up

[stickdog]

84. When was Dean the DLC's guy?

I hate revisionist history.

[Sophree]

80. This Establishment vs. non-Establishment stuff

is such B.S.

It is doing almost as much damage to our unity as fellow Democrats as the Iraq War. I hold Dean responsible for a lot of it, he's inciting his supporters with this nonsense and I can't believe so many of you are falling for it.

[stickdog]

85. Yes, we are such idiots for wanting a regular guy supported by

the dollars and efforts of regular Americans in the White House.

It's much better to let the elites pick BOTH of our choices!