Fear of Dean?

[BurtWorm]

Poll question: Fear of Dean?

For those who don't support Dean, please choose which best describes your feelings about his campaign:

[Jack_Dawson]

1. Not the Best Choice? You could say that

Usually the person polling the lowest against Bush head-to-head would not be the best choice.

[Renew Deal]

4. I only partly agree

Kucinich is probably polling the lowest against Bush* but he is better than Dean.

[Zynx]

8. Gephardt and Edwards almost always poll the lowest against Bush.

[arewethereyet]

36. the few polls that bother to show everyone come near even

n/t

[cprise]

2. Choices are lopsided, mostly negative

.

[BurtWorm]

7. It's a question about what is it about Dean that gives nonsupporters pause

[Bombtrack]

11. They aren't even close to negative enough

Dean makes me want to vomit every time I see his lying, sneering, mean, face

[BurtWorm]

14. So I guess we can't count on your vote if he wins the nomination?

:hi:

[worldgonekrazy]

21. You inspire me

It is just this kind of unsubstantiated hate speech that is going to propel Dems to the top in '04. Just you watch and see.

(but don't hold your breath)

[Scott Lee]

27. That's odd - I experience that reaction when I see Bush-hole.

Doncha think it might be time to refocus?

[Monte Carlo]

3. Revolutionaries scare the hell out of me.

... and it is a very big gamble that Dean is taking. It could pay off big, but then again, it might not. He is taking on Bush, his Administration, the establishment in Washington and the Democratic Party, and big parts the national media. That is a LOT for one man to take on.

[BurtWorm]

5. I totally understand that sentiment.

It is a big risk.

[Monte Carlo]

12. Thank you. I'm not saying Dean can't do it...

... it's just that I've seen more than one popular uprising/campaign in the not-too-distant past that has failed.

[bearfartinthewoods]

24. remember how hot perot was?

until he melted?

[candy331]

6. Dean supporter here

Any Dem candidate will have a struggle beating Bush if we believe the polls.

[Zynx]

9. One of the main reasons I support Dean is that he will topple Clinton.

I firmly believe we need to get rid of Clinton to have a healthy party again. I know we lost a series of elections before he came on board, but we were more dominant in Congress and the state and local level. Besides, we had some bad luck in terms of what we were campaigning against in '84 and '88.

[Monte Carlo]

15. Could you elaborate a bit on that?

How is Dean going to topple an ex-President, and why would we even want to? It seems... odd.

[Jack_Dawson]

16. Yes, let's topple the most successful president of the century

Makes sense to me...I'm sure Sean Hannity is on board. Who else?

[Sean Reynolds]

18. Century?

You're going to say Clinton was better than FDR? Bah!

Clinton was an above average president, but not the best of the century.

[JohnKleeb]

19. FDR was the best without a doubt

[retyred]

26. dean couldn't carry Clinton's water

any more than gore could.



retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[Scott Lee]

29. Absolutely. But revolutions still need to happen.

And not only that, often they must be attempted several times before succeeding. Dean's drive may win, it may fail. But the objective - getting the Dem Party back to its root causes, putting spine and fight back into the party, and dismantling this disastrous status quo within the party elite - should remain for someone else to take it up if a failure occurs.

"In order to be a revolutionary, first one must possess great love" - Che Guevara

[DemDogs]

31. Revolutionaries? What a joke

Dean says whatever the audience in front of him wants to hear, unfortunately whether it is true or not. What in the world is revolutionary about that? Republicans have been doing it for years.

[JohnKleeb]

10. I prefer another candiate plain and simple

Hes a little moderate for my likings but if it comes to that day, yes I will support him.

[GreenArrow]

13. Psuedo liberalism

He's a classic say anything to get elected politician, and a demagogue of the first rank. He talks a good game, but he's status quo all the way.

His campaign has been energetically run, and geared towards making people feel involved, but he'll have to win in order for us to see just how far that sense of involvement carries over into his actual governing. My guess is it won't. My guess is that it will be similar to the scene at the end of "Journeys with George" movie where Dubya quite cooly and smugly says hasta la vista baby (or wham bam thank you mam, take your choice) to the busload of supporters, er reporters, he'd been traveling with for months on a semi-intimate level. Having used, manipulated, and charmed them, and having gotten what he wanted from them, he cut's 'em loose with out so much as a thank you. Dean may at least give a thank you, but that only illustrates one of the notable differences between the two parties; the Dems will at least give you a kiss while they're screwing you.

[cryofan]

17. How on earth is Dean considered Leftist at all???

Dean is a Republicrat who has been quoted as saying he wants to shrink the welfare state.

Anyway, here are some quotes from Dean:


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Throughout the 1990s, Dean’s cuts in state aid to education ($6 million), retirement funds for teachers and state employees ($7 million), health care ($4 million), welfare programs earmarked for the aged, blind and disabled ($2 million), Medicaid benefits ($1.2 million) and more, amounted to roughly $30 million. Dean claimed that the cuts were necessary because the state had no money and was burdened by a $60 million deficit.9
....
Most of the Democrats in the legislature rebelled against Dean over the budget cuts, and he ended up depending on Republican votes to pass most of his proposals. At the time, a local Vermont newspaper wrote, "The biggest items on Dean’s agenda for next year are likely to provoke more opposition from the Democrats than the Republicans. Nevertheless, Dean said he feels no particular pressure to deliver the goods to his party or to promote the Democratic agenda."15

In the mid-1990s, Dean even aligned himself with the likes of Republican Newt Gingrich on his stance on cutting Medicare. He opined at the time, "The way to balance the budget is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut everything else."16
....
The Rutland Herald described how one protestor, Henrietta Jordan of the Vermont Center for Independent Living, "said it would be much fairer to raise taxes on people with expensive homes and cars, children in private school and a housekeeper at home than to cut programs that helped the 66,000 Vermonters living with disabilities."17 Dean responded callously, brushing off the pleas of Vermont’s most vulnerable by saying, "This seems like sort of the last gasp of the left here."18"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



The rest of this article is here:
http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml

[Beaker]

30. THANK YOU.

EXACTLY!!
Dean is NO liberal. He's even farther to the right than Bill Clinton.
and Clinton was tooooo far right for my tastes...but then, maybe some people do like the results of NAFTA and the WTO.

[BurtWorm]

34. You're preaching to the converted, you two.

Not many at DU seem to think of Dean as too left to be elected anyway.

[Bucky]

35. This article is a fine example of how commies don't like Dean. Cool.

But as a loyal Democrat I'd be happy to vote and work for Dean if he gets nominated. I think Bush will whip his tail furiously and make us all beg for more, but I'll still vote for him and be satisfied that I made the right choice.

[On the Road]

20. I Don't Understand the Fixation on Polls 10 Months Before the General Elec

The last election had swings of over 20 points in the polls at various times. The election will be decided on who campaigns best -- who can excite the base AND bring over swing voters. Who can frame the issues and say to Bush in all honesty: "I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you." Who the soccer moms trust and the NASCAR dads can identify with.

By these categories, Dean seems to me to be the stongest. I just haven't seen these qualities from most of the other candidates.

[cryofan]

23. "The Bull Rush"--it's an old streetfighting technique

When a street fighter thinks he can win a fight very early and catch the opponent off guard, he bull rushes him as soon as the fight begins, going at him with all his strength, catching him off guard.

THat is what the Establishment Media is doing right now--bull rushing the electorate. They and their corporate backers know that this is a dangerous election: we are in some ways in one of the worst job markets ever; the increasing use of the internet is exposing the electorate to leftist views as they have not been exposed for more than 70-80 years ago, when the urban voters were very much more involved in community life, and there were far more leftists in touch with the average American. Now, google can take most Americans to leftist webpages in a matter of seconds.

Likewise, the success of european welfare states is becoming more and more obvious. Especially dangerous is the way that Americans are becoming more aware of how the welfare state has provided Canadians with universal health care at lower prices.

So, they found a DINO (Democrat In Name Only) named Howard Dean III, who happens to be a Silver Spoon millionaire, and is therefore someone they trust. And so they are bullrushing the electorate with a media blitz, hoping to scare off the contenders and sweep voters onto the DEan bandwagon. I would imagine that Kucinich is the one they most want to bury, as he is the one that most threatens to demand a strong welfare state. And if you want a strong welfare state, inevitably, you need to raise taxes a bunch on the upper class and wealthy.

[bearfartinthewoods]

25. bullrushing...perfect term for how howard brush dean the third

got his campaign off the ground...thanks.

[BurtWorm]

33. Conspiracy theory

Needs to be supported by evidence. Otherwise to be taken with a grain of salt.

[retyred]

22. The man makes my skin crawl

So does bush but he doesn't claim to be one of my own!



retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[batman]

28. Now wheres the legitimate "fear of clark" thread.

better wait till tomorrow for that one

[TeeYiYi]

32. His support of the Likud . . .

. . . puts him in a tie with Lieberman for last place.

TYY

[Myra]

37. Didn't really have my option. He's the media's choice, not my choice.

Dean's the obvious choice of the corporate mainstream media.
That was made very clear in Koppel's debate.
If there wasn't already a red flag attached to him,
the Koppel debacle should have firmly affixed it.

He is a loose cannon/runaway train.
He blurts out the most outrageous rookie things (e.g., I'll
plug that (foreign policy) hole in my resume with my running mate).
It should be obvious that the media gives him a free ride on his
blurtings now so that they can rip him apart later, when it's too
late for us to pick a good candidate. The fact that he gets away
with saying this junque as a *Dem*, should be another red flag.

He's absolutely more conservative than he lets on.
His record of governing shows that.
At least the part that's unsealed.
Those should constitute a couple more red flags.

How many red flags do people need?

(Hey! There's a spell check!!!)

[ibegurpard]

38. This poll is very encouraging to me

Ignoring many of the written responses and just looking at the poll, 56 people are Dean supporters and 59 say he's a good man just not the best choice while the minority hold a very negative viewpoint. That indicates that despite the heated rhetoric on this board that the majority of the people here could come together behind Dean should he win the nomination. I suspect that similar polls for other candidates would yield similar results and that once the primary is over we can look forward to flushing this place out and having a much more positive, productive atomsphere.