Dean is better in the South than Kerry in the GE

[Renew Deal]

Kerry thinks it's not important to campaign in the south. He thinks it's alright to ignore and neglect 1/3 of the country. He thinks he can win without the south. Though he might be right when it comes to delegate count. He is dead wrong when it comes to being a president for all of America.

One thing that isn't one of Dean's many well documented flaws is the fact that he wants to run a 50 state campaign. He doesn't want to just do this now. He wants to do this in the GE. In that way, Dean is better than Kerry in the south. Even for the morons with confederate flags.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

1. In which southern state primary(ies) do you think Dean will beat Kerry?

[brainshrub]

3. SC, TN and NC.

Those are going Dean. Probably Florida as well.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. Too bad we can't bet on it....we'll see.....

[citizen snips]

34. Nope.

Dean is polling at 4th or 5th place in the south.

[brainshrub]

2. SC is going Dean!

We've been canvasing SC like crazy. YAHRG!!!

I'll be at Dean HQ in SC this Thursday if anyone wants to join me for a beer or two. PM me.

[wyldwolf]

4. And Iowa and New Hampshire?

Honestly - enthusiam is a great thing.

Some of our predictions here at DU over the past month have been laughable.

[Kira]

6. I hope you are right but

www.thestate.com (southcarolina newspaper website) is saying Dean is doing badly in all states next week. Do you have any info to share contrary to this? I would like to boost my hopes a little.

[Renew Deal]

10. Now that I don't agree with.

Dean is 4th or 5th in every SC poll.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. Then why is he polling in 5th place in SC, behind Al Sharpton, even?

Could it be that no matter how much canvassing you do, Dean actually has absolutely no chance whatsover to win SC?


http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/sc/

[XNASA]

5. Says who?

Links, sources, datapoints, etc? You know the routine.

All the Southern states will vote for w* anyway, with the possible exception of Florida. How do Dean or Kerry stack up against the Illiterate One in the Sunshine state? That's most likely the only southern state that matters.

[brainshrub]

12. A Dean-birdie told me?

Probably more accurate than Zogby.

Seriously, I haven't seen any of the other campaigns canvasing here in the South. Dean is very well organized here in NC and we've been making regular trips to SC to help with the campaign.

Plus, the SEIU workers are amazing! They are reaching out to black voters and convincing them to come out for Dean.

[LuminousX]

7. If Dean wins SC, I'll declare Dean fully revived

If Dean beats Kerry in SC but loses to Clark or Edwards, I will say he and Kerry are dead even. If Dean takes third in SC, then I will say he is going to limp along pulling in 2nd/3rd in the rest of the states but never breaking into the level of support required to get the nomination.

I do see him having enough delegates to have an affect on the convention, though. Our Dean won't be stepping off the national stage anytime soon.

[blm]

8. Wrong, Bleachers. Kerry just isn't gonna pander to the south rhetorically.

You know...Book of Job and all that.

His record of service will play WAY better than pandering. He's gonna do great down here. SC is a military state with more retired military and vets than any other state.

[Ripley]

11. Yeah, he's just gonna pander to the black vets in the south.

He will lose SC.

[blm]

20. Nope. He'll say to vets in SC what he says to vets in Iowa.

He's not a panderer.

[Renew Deal]

14. SC isn't the south

But I don't see how you can spin Kerry ignoring the south as a good thing.

[blm]

19. He didn't say he was going to ignore it. You did.

He just doesn't believe it's important to have a southern strategy. I think he should play it straight.

[Renew Deal]

35. Why is it not important?

I don't understand why it is OK to ignore sections of the country when you run for president. This is the presidency, not some chess game. And I know getting elected is like chess, but that's not the point. Dean has the money, the human resources, and the willingness to fight for these people and all people. What does Kerry have? He wants to play Americans in a way that might get him elected. But will Kerry really be a representative of all of America. I don't see how he can be if he ignores a section of it.

[xultar]

9. I can believe that.

[robsul82]

13. That "screw the South" stance, geez...

...is that EVER gonna be a talking point if Kerry's nominated.

Later.

RJS

[Metrix]

15. I'm afraid your post is a perfect example of Dean's approach to the South

Dean thinks he just has to convince those "morons" (your word) that that the Republicans have been tricking them into voting against their self interest and into using blacks as scapegoats.

[sangh0]

17. Not only that, Dean is also

talking about winning states that are NOT in the South. He's pretty skipping the next set of primaries, and looking towards the next set, because the later primaries are not tilted to the South.

"...He is already looking beyond next week's seven-state showdown, planning campaign appearances in the coming days in Michigan, Washington and Wisconsin, which vote later..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/28/politics/campaign/28DEAN.html

[Renew Deal]

28. So what

Those are important states. Dean is playing in MO, AZ, NM, and SC. The problem with SC is that there is a guy in the the race that was born there. But I am talking about the GE, not the primary.

[sangh0]

32. The south won't vote for Dean in the GE

if he skips them in the primary. Look at Dean's schedule! He is NOT devoting much of his resources to the South. He's looking past the south and to the Southwest, and the MidWest. Even Trippi is talking about winning states that are NOT in the South.

[TLM]

24. No, Dean's position is that regardless of race...

We all want good schools for our kids.

We all want good jobs.

We all want healthcare.


The republicans have spent 30 years telling folks in the south who to blame for their problems... Dean is saying we need to instead look at ways to solve those problems, not simply place blame.


And frankly if being tricked by repukes makes you a moron... then Kerry is King moron because he got tricked into supporting an unjust and unnecessary war in Iraq.

[Renew Deal]

25. That's off base.

I agree with everything up to the word interest. But I don't think Dean wants to use Blacks as scapegoats. He wants to use them as voters. It's a big difference. He might be a little off in his approach, but he is trying to do the right thing.

Now contrast that with Kerry. Kerry wants nothing to do with the south. He has nothing to stand up for minorities in this campaign. Dean appears to want to be the president for all of the people. That's commendable.

[Metrix]

38. You misread my post

I didn't mean Dean is using blacks as scapegoats. Rather that Dean asks Southern whites to realize the real source of their dissatisfaction or problems rather than doing that. No problem for me there. But I don't see it as a very productive strategy in itself or that it actually addresses problems of a racial divide as anything other than as an election strategy.

Dean needs to go deeper. So let's hear it. No more dumbing things down. I am offended that he keeps talking about how "four little girls had to die in Birmingham so we could all be more free." It's part of the stump speech. Condoleezza was criticized for employing similar words.

[SaveElmer]

21. Why not forget the South ?

Between 1900 and 1956 Republicans won the White House 8 times with virtually no support in the South. Nixon won it 1968 with most southern support going to Wallace. Democrats stand a better chance if they don't pursue a strategy in the South. It weakens us elsewhere to do so.

[Renew Deal]

31. Deans's way of pursuing the south DOES NOT weaken us.

It does not weaken us when such a large army of people are willing to fight for those states. It does not weaken us when a candidate want sto help with their issues. It does not weaken us when we embrace people, not ignore them.

[SaveElmer]

33. It does weaken us

When we muddle our message to try and attract people with whom we disagree on most everything. There are precious few swing voters in the south (except Florida). With the possible exception of West Virginia (which is more midwest than south), Bush will win every southern state. We would be better off going after swing voters in the southwest and west.

[Renew Deal]

36. Not everyone in this country is a freeper.

Dean is presenting one message. I don't think you have to muddle it. You give them the same message. I mean he is running for presidunt of the US. Not president of the coasts.

[SaveElmer]

37. My point exactly

Stay on point, don't tailor it to try and bring in conservatives who aren't coming with you anyway. That is what we have done in the past. The Democratic message will resonate far better in the west and southwest, midwest, and northeast than it will in the South. If conservative Southerners see the light - great, but if not, we shouldn't be pandering to them.

This goes for any Democrat. I have been a Dean supporter, but do not think it is possible for him to come back. Our nominee will be John Kerry.

[citizen snips]

22. I don't think Dean or Kerry will not do good in the south.

Kerry made a bad decision to not campaign in south.

Dean's quote about confederate flags and pickup trucks will not play well in the south. Dean does not have a chance in the south.

[TLM]

23. This is why Kerry will lose... you are right.

Kerry's run is all about the power of DC insiders and holding on to the status quo.

Kerry doesn't care about the south because he doesn't care about the people... he is not running in this race for the people, rather he is running for himself, his power, and his influence.

Dean is running for the people, ALL OF THEM... be they black, white, brown or yellow... be they rich or poor or working class... gay or straight... north or south.

Most people do not want another washington politican, but a lot of folks think that only a washington insider like Kerry can win because the system is so corrupt that that only an equally corrupted player in that system has any chance of wining.

[sandnsea]

26. We've been working TN already

For a while now. We've had alot of email requests for phone calling to TN. This campaign is not giving up the south. It is just not going to create a separate southern strategy as if the south is, in his words, a foreign country.

[JI7]

30. heard harold ford jr say the same thing

just recently. i heard kerry say it around the same time. and ford is from tennessee, no way would he endorse kerry if kerry had any intentions of ignoring the south.

[robsul82]

27. All it comes down to is one question.

What's worse - "screw the South" or "I want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags on the back of their pickup trucks too?"

Later.

RJS

[genius]

29. Dean's in fourth or fifth place in the South.

This is the difference between him and Clinton. The Southern Democrats liked Clinton so finishing 3rd and 2nd in the two Northern states didn't hurt Clinton.