Anyone else really worried about Kerry as our nominee?

[ChrisNYC]

This isn't meant to start a war, I'm just wondering if any other people feel the way I do. I'm 100% ABB, and will certainly support Kerry if he is nominated. I supported Dean for most of the summer/fall, but I admit the last month has forced me to question that and I now am "undecided" and probably lean to Edwards. But, I honestly believe Kerry is the worst of the 4 major candidates to send against Bush. I just don't understand all the electability arguments on his behalf, and I think the people making them sorely lack an appreciation for how he will play in the middle/South of the country.

He has a VERY liberal record. Yes, I personally support that, but most Americans are going to be turned off. Is it so hard for people to picture all those damn Bush commercials talking about how he opposed Gulf War I, how he strongly supports raising gasoline taxes on working people, how he worked for Dukakis, how he voted against the DOFA act. I don't want to debate the legitimacy of any of these positions -- My point is that he will get NAILED on them by Bush.

Honestly, if I were trying to create a bad candidate for us, I think a good start would be a billionaire Massachusetts liberal with a foreign born wife with an accent (Does anyone doubt the GOP will hesitate to use that against him?) and a 20+ year record of extremely liberal votes. I am terrified at another 4 years of W, and really fear that's what a Kerry candidacy may bring us.

Why am I wrong?

[feckerman]

1. Don't forget he may be the least energizing person

on the planet. He does not get "speaking and motivating large crowds" as was clear yesterday in his speech to me.

Edwards or Dean or Clark.

[sangh0]

5. And Dean energized Dems to vote for Kerry

So much for "energizing" people

[m-jean03]

28. For heaven's sake, does anyone else find his reserve to be

somewhat magnetic? I really think he represents a true situation of yin (lesser force) attracting yang (greater force), if that's not too esoteric for this crowd. I think people are charmed by a quieter demeanor -- it draws them in -- and THEY provide the energy. It is a symbiotic relationship. I see this happen at every speaking engagement he has. It may appear to violate some law of politics you believe in but it is a thing that happens all the time in the real world.

Honestly, I don't want a cheerleader in the White House. I want a thoughtful & intelligent person. Kofi Annan is incredibly sedate yet I admire him immensely and find myself drawn to him for the same reasons I like Kerry. I think that the behavior of the crowds at his meetings and rallies reflects my sentiment.

[KC21304]

53. Yes, we already have a cheerleader in the White House.

Post picture here. Sorry I don't have it. Anyone ?

[NashVegas]

2. I Don't Think You're Wrong

FWIW

[blm]

3. Kerry sells liberal positions with a moderate voice that attracts.

Dean was selling centrism with the voice of an anarchist.

I'll take the liberal.

[fizzana]

4. No matter who's the candidate, I'll worry

They all have their plusses and minuses and any of them could beat Bush but at the same time any of them could also lose and lose badly. I don't think Kerry is any better or worse than any of the others.

How's that for straddling the fence. I'm just concerned because 4 more years of Bush & we're all fucked.

[wryter2000]

6. In a word...

No.

Signed,
Dean supporter

[digno dave]

7. no charisma

Kerry manages to make a corpse look engaging.

[TLM]

8. Yes...he will lose to Bush, and HARD.

I think the only one who would lose worse would be Sharpton or Kucinich.

Right now Kerry's major selling point is "I didn't scream at a rally"

Finally Kerry's dull life-less scripted monotonous boring timid nature is paying off. Because people are afraid that someone with Dean's passion and fire can't win in this corrupt system.

Most folks do not want Kerry, they do not want another DC insider. But Kerry's supporters and the media have very effectivly convinced many folks that only a bland and boring dem can be presidential. Which is a surefire way to lose the GE.

[lancdem]

24. Kerry didn't just win because of electability

People who picked the economy, health care or education as their primary concern also picked Kerry over Dean. Are these people wrong, too? And I hate to break it to you, but 95 percent of Dems and independents don't give a rat's ass about who's an "insider" or an "establishment" Dem. DU does not represent a broad cross-section of the Dem Party. There's no evidence "most people" don't want a DC insider. Frankly, in a post-9/11 world, I think experience is what a lot of voters are looking for in a replacement for Bush. BTW, I'm not anti-Dean, I'm just trying to inject some reality here.

[sendero]

41. People don't care about insiders?

You are kidding right? JFK is the last senator to move to president. Since then, we've had Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush - all governor 'outsiders'. You think their outsider status had nothing to do with their success? Well I could not disagree more.

The common man/woman in this country may not pay as much attention as s/he should, but people are acutely aware of some basic facts. People who live in the Washington culture for a time become subsumed by it. They fall into the "game". It is not that they are bad, it is simply an adaptation to an environment.

Kerry's IWR vote being a classic example.

[KC21304]

54. So why are these " outsiders " clawing to become " Insiders "?

People are really going to be paying attention to issues, rather than this comic relief that has been passing for campaign rhetoric lately. It won't take Kerry long to dispense with all this nonsense.

[KC21304]

55. And just where are these "most folks " that don't want Kerry residing ?

Did they come out and vote in Iowa and New Hampshire ? Are they participating in the polls in any of the other states we have seen where Kerry is beating Dean ? I'm not saying the polls are completely accurate, but I was just wondering if you had inquired all around the country, or are you just a mind reader ?

[vi5]

9. Every candidate has things that make me worry...

Each of them has flaws and cracks in their armor which will be exploited by bush ad infinitum. I see no reason to worry about Kerry any more or any less than any of the others.

[KoKo]

10. I don't care for Kerry, but don't think the issues you mention will hurt

him. I think the country and the establishment will see some glamor returning to the White House after the Texas Taco Crowd and the Garden Gnome's regime.

Sally Quinn and Ben Bradlee can start up the "Party Machine" in Washington which has been out of business for over a decade and with all that money Theresa and JFK will be "In Vogue." All that money is what America is about. McMansions and Coruption from the top down rule and this will be considered "Great for America." Plus you get a STRONG DEFENSE candidate who sounds more and more like his hero JFK every day.

I even heard a little of MLK in his speech this a.m. I have a Dream, I have a Dream....I have a Dream.......Perfect......

What more could we ask for? :D

[LandOLincoln]

11. We've been set up, and sadly, it looks like a lot of Dems

are falling for it. This article has been posted several times in the last few days, but it can't be posted too often IMO:

http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i2mediawatch.htm

[aquart]

12. Kerry wants me to believe power won't corrupt him.

Because he's one of the good guys.

If he'd been President, the IWR vote would have been fine, because he would have done the RIGHT thing, instead of what George did. So giving Kerry so much power is fine because he's such a good guy.

I cannot tell you how uneasy that makes me. Especially since he seems to have no idea why it would make me uneasy.

[lancdem]

13. I could be completely off the wall here

but I don't think Kerry's liberal stances are going to be the liability people assume they are. He got strong support in N.H. from liberals and moderates. I believe many independent-type voters are so pissed at Bush they'll give Kerry a long look.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. Yes, Bush is worried.

Latest Newsweek poll:

Kerry also leads the pack of Democratic contenders among registered voters as the candidate who would have a better chance of beating President George W. Bush if the election were held today. A Kerry-Bush match-up would have Kerry up by 49 percent to Bush's 46 percent. A Clark and Bush match-up would be a close race, with Bush at 48 percent and Clark at 47 percent. Bush would have an edge over Edwards (49% to 46%). Yet, with a plus or minus margin of error, these match-ups result in a statistical dead heat. And the President would beat Dean (50% to 45%) and Sen. Joe Lieberman (49% to 45%).
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040124/nysa010a_1.html

[ChrisNYC]

18. Yes, that surprised me

But the 200 Million + Buschco machine hasn't even cranked up yet. And Kerry is just such a target rich candidate IMO.

[mlawson]

42. A lot of this is name recognition.

Kerry is probably the only Dem that many voters who are not keeping up with the primaries have ever seen before. My fear is that he won't 'wear well'.

[DODI]

15. I saw him in NH on Sunday.

I was very impressed with him. I don't have a true favorite -- I too am ABB. I think he can do it. How can they use his wealth against him? Bush has it too. I would take a dem millionaire/billionaire any day -- FDR, JFK, Heinz, Rockefeller, Edwards for example. Kerry has been fully vetted. He had a tough race in Mass a couple of years ago against Weld (I think it was Weld) -- he is up for the fight. I don't think his wife will be a problem. Isn't Jeb's wife Cuban? They seem to be trying to run Arnie in the future -- so the foreign born first lady thing won't work for them. I liked the executive orders Kerry is proposing -- especially with regards to a five year waiting period for gov't people moving into the lobbyist crowd. I think he can gain great appeal. I think the ABB movement is very strong and Kerry can whoop that guy in a debate. His military background, election experience, peace movement experience work very well for him.

[ChrisNYC]

21. It was Weld

But Kerry only beat him by 7 points in Mass the same year Clinton beat Dole by 30+ points.

[elfin]

16. Yes - I am a Clark supporter

due to the feeling that national and international security will be the main underlying issue in the GE, even tho I feel the judiciary, environment etc. should be paramount. And Clark isn't saddled with a lot of votes on record that seemingly contradict each other or play "wacko liberal" when Rove gets through with them.

However, I have been disappointed in Clark's demeanor lately (ex. the Dole segment) and hope he changes course to differentiate heimself from Kerry without sounding like he is "pulling rank."

I also agree with the poster who says they will worry about anyone, but these are my worries about Kerry - even though I agree with him on most issues.

Kerry's seeming detachment will resurface as soon as he feels comfortable which will not be helpful.

[copithorne]

19. I don't understand it either

Kerry is the weakest candidate of the four against Bush. I do not understand the appeal.

I'll definitely get behind the guy and send him money if he wraps up the nomination. But I'll reserve some cash for buying canned goods.

What are we thinking renominating Michael Dukakis?

[mlawson]

43. I don't see him as Dukakis, as much as a

Mondale. From 1984, of course. Gary Hart (Dean, Edwards, or Clark) might be defeated, and then we have that horrible election of 20 years ago, redux. Well, at least he will win MA..... :eyes:

[KC21304]

56. You may have skipped post # 14. ?

[sandnsea]

17. Somebody who fought for us

A candidate who stood up for our issues and made huge efforts on the very things people on this board supposedly care about, and now we're not supposed to elect him as President because he did those things. :crazy:

What good is winning if we just have more compromising centrism?

Kerry's record is one that values civil rights while being tough on crime in a common sense way. It values business while being supportive of working people. It's a very balanced record and the only thing that will cause him not to win is if the left decides to whine all year instead of learning his record and deciding to stand up and fight for him the way he's fought for us all these years.

It is time to change the country, really change it. We either do it now or it'll never get done. That's why I'm for Kerry, I really do want change. Not just some stupid insider/outsider bullshit labels, CHANGE.

[ChrisNYC]

26. I see your point

But think W could teach us something on this point -- It's much better to run a stealth liberal that can't be nailed down to dozens of now unpopular past liberal positions. (Such as refusing to add work to welfare, another Kerry vote which he'll be clubbed with.)

And I am a pragmatist -- I'd take Lieberman over W in a second. I'd still bitch plenty, but at least I wouldn't fear the end of the world may be imminent.

[Indiana Democrat]

20. No.

[Walt Starr]

22. I think Kerry is more boring than Gore was

and I also think that's being nice to Kerry.

[Emillereid]

23. I think you have legitimate concerns.

My biggest complaints/fears concerning him as our candidate however are not so much his liberal votes, but his lack of conviction in standing up for them. There's a hesitancy about him sometimes as if he's calculating the political wind rather than speaking from his heart. And the Bushits will exploit that. His stupid vote on the war resolution to give this incompetent President the wherewithal to go to war was more than anything an expedient dodge -- he was afraid to oppose a war he thought would be more popular like Gulf I and that would be held against him in his presidential bid. I watched him on many a news show waffle with one wishy-washy sit on the fence position after another. That's not a recipe for defeating Bushit. Actually I think he won Iowa and NH because Dean had opened the way for him to be more forthright and decisive sounding in his criticisms of Bushit. Hopefully he can stay true to his new 'religion' and not revert to his default, wishy-washy personality.

I strongly believe that in this election that we must offer the electorate a clear, articulate opposition to Bush -- people are hungry for NOT Bushit. Maybe the DLC move to the right worked for Clinton in 92, but I think the 2002 elections should have laid to rest the idea that that strategy is going to work again. That's in part because the Bush's have moved the spectrum so far to the right -- we have to play on our own terms and pull it back to a true middle. He's got to take a lesson from Dean and realize that we have to provide an unequivocal alternative to Bush, fire up our base and bring out more new voters.

[montanacowboy]

25. Yes...because

I want to know how he can challenge * on anything since he supported everything the unelected fraud ever wanted...What will he say in the debate when * says..well, you supported the war, Patriot Act, NCLB, tax cuts.... what can he say? I was mislead? pleassssssssssssse

[KC21304]

57. What can he say ? He has already answered these questions

many times, and if the President lied about these issue, shouldn't that be pointed out ? He has many others to back him up on this.

[elsiesummers]

27. Yes - you have it - very worried

Pragmatism - He is my fourth choice for that reason.

I also worry about the way he is such a podium speaker - not a regular guy type - I fear he won't wear well.

But, If he is the nominee I hope I'm completely off base and that his military background carrys more weight with others than it does with me.

None of the candidates are perfect; he simply worries me more than most.

[Demobrat]

29. What worries me about Kerry

is how low energy and sickly he appears. Botox can hide the wrinkles for a while, but he's weak and it shows. He's like Bob Dole on chemo. Put him up next to cowboy Bush, and all the Repukes have to do is start a whispering campaign that the cancer is back, and whammo, he's done. I can just hear it now "Is Kerry physically up to the job?" Americans will never elect a weak president, they went for Arnie for Christ's sake. Combine Kerry's image with his stupifyingly boring delivery, and he doesn't have a chance. Frankly, I'm surprised anybody thinks he does.

[KC21304]

61. I know what you mean. On that hockey rink

he looked like they would have to carry him away. LOL

ARe you serious ? Have you seen him in person ? What does Bush do beside run on a treadmill and ride in a pickup truck ? I would put him next to the wuss Bush any day.

I think it is interesting that the only place I have heard of cancer back is here.

[Demobrat]

67. Where would you expect to hear about it?

On Fox? In case you haven't noticed, they're gleefully rubbing their hands at the thought of running against Kerry. Literally giggling with joy. They know a sick old man has no chance against Bush the cowboy.

[OKNancy]

30. Well, I might as well stay home if he is the nom.

I like Kerry a lot, however pity us poor red state people.
We all know now that the popular vote doesn't mean squat.
I figure with Clark there is a chance, plus I like his policies.

------
Now if the war goes even worse, and the economy goes down again, then who knows? I want everyone to not be too caught up in the euphoria of the primaries and all the attention we are getting. It is going to be very HARD to depose Bush. Those that say their dog could beat Bush are either on drugs or so into their own world they are blind. Some of you DUers live in rarefied communities...I sound like Carlos....or Pitt....but DU is not what goes on in the good old USofA.

[molly]

34. OK - Nancy - stay home and give us 4 more years of hell

on earth. But you are correct - "but DU is not what goes on in the good old USofA".

[KC21304]

59. No, Nancy. I believe out in the good old US of A,

Kerry will get a larger percentage of votes than he would get here on DU.

[ChrisNYC]

64. Probably true

I doubt he has 40% on DU...

[adamrsilva]

31. It's not his liberal record (though he certainly comes off

as the most quintessential liberal of all the candidates), it's the fact that he voted for the war and other things he seeks to criticize Bush on! How will he debate Bush. DK finally said the other day we were walking into a trap on this. Can you imagine the debate?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=216164#216261

[ResistTheCoup]

32. Yes.

I like Kerry but when he's talking all I hear is "Blah, blah, blah." The N.H. speech was identical in content and enthusiasm (or lack thereof) to his Iowa speech.

Like Molly Ivins says, Kerry could take the excitement out of a soccer riot :-)

Add to that that he will be painted as a New England liberal endorsed by Ted Kennedy, well bye-bye moderates/swing voters. Don't get me wrong, I'm ABB all the way but not so sure about Kerry.

[LibDemAlways]

33. When Rove and the media whores

get through with Kerry, it won't be a pretty sight. We'll be making a mistake of historic proportions if he's the nominee.
Still believe that the only candidate who can beat the chimp machine is Clark, and that's precisely why he's being marginalized.

[beyurslf]

35. I couldn't agree more.

I have been wavering in my support of Dean and do like Edwards. Kerry just seems like the perfect type of person that Bush would love to go against.

[ibegurpard]

36. Not just worried about him as the nominee against Bush

Worried that nothing will change in the Democratic Party if he is the nominee.

[Zynx]

37. Kerry seals our doom. Nothing but a stuffed suit.

Tout Vietnam all you want. If that was the qualification we would elect hundreds of thousands of veterans right now.

[Edge]

38. I don't like Kerry either.

I just don't think he'll appeal to most of the people in the country. Especially the South. Even after those comments on how he said he didn't need the South, he'll be paying for it. I was turned off by it, that's for sure.

I think the other Top 3 candidates would do a far better job at appealing to the people than Kerry would.

[Adjoran]

39. I'm concerned about everybody

This is not going to be an easy election.

Some people think "their guy" will "kick shrub's butt." Nobody is going to have it easy.

I have two things I am looking for in a candidate:

1. Have a chance to beat shrub.
2. Not turn off the electorate or write off a region in a way that hurts the down-ticket.

Barring a major sea change, we aren't going to retake the House or Senate this time around. The White House is our best shot, but we also have to be concerned about the coattail effect. If our candidate can't help the down-ticket, or at least not hurt it, we are in for a long four years.

[mlawson]

40. I've been depressed all day over it.

Some of you might remember: A year ago I predicted that exactly THIS would happen -- all of a sudden, Kerry would 'take off', as if a party machine had kicked in for him. Just like Mondale in 1984, and I fear with the same results in November.

Can Kerry pass the Beer buddy test?? No.
Does he have the urgently needed common touch that Clinton had?? No.
Will the apolitical 15% who elect the president feel any sort of bond with him?? No.
What states that Gore did NOT win, will Kerry win?? None. He won't even carry many of the ones Gore did win.

But it's not over yet, Kerry *might* not be our nominee...

[kang]

44. I'm worried, but Kerry's my #3 pick behind Clark and then Edwards

TNR's going to have a debate on it http://www.tnr.com/, but the "Home Groan" article (Latest TNR) by a Boston Globe reporter points out that Weld in '96 put together the "playbook" on painting Kerry as another MA liberal (raise taxes, anti-death penalty, etc.). Rove will most certainly have a field day with it. One of the reasons that I found Clark and Edwards both attractive is their lack of material to work with (as far as voting record goes). Their domestic agenda is fresh and avoids any contradiction.

Now two things. The Weld strategy didn't play in '96 (close race though), but it was in MA and not the midwest or south. Also, Pres. Bush is a better candidate than Weld. In his defense, Kerry has also made some stands against liberal interest groups...welfare reform and teachers unions to name a few.

If I'm reading this right, at least according to the Washington Post poll, people jumped to Kerry because of electability and about half of his support came from people deciding post-Iowa.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/graphics/nhexitpoll_012704.htm

There's no question that NH voters were heavily influenced by Iowa. Kerry's revival is impressive, but if his story tells me anything, it's that Clark can still win if he wins states on Feb. 3rd.

[AntiCoup2K4]

45. There is no way Kerry can beat Bush

One is a Bonesman advised by PNAC who was in favor of the Patriot Act, the Iraq war and No School Left Unfucked. The other is the incumbent pResident. Neither is going to reverse the vile direction this country is heading.

[rumguy]

46. Yes, he reminds me to much of Gore

He has a tendency to use platitudes instead of just talking directly. He can be wooden and stiff.

I think in small venues like in Iowa and NH he can be really good. But I fear than in a big national campaign he will revert to Gore-type crap...

[TopesJunkie]

47. Like, yeah, many of us are worried -- Very worried --

Kerry's rise is clearly the result of an ABD camp gone awry.

[freetempe]

48. Be very worried

For these reasons.

1) Kerry is an empty-suit Washington insider and is the very essence of what is wrong with our party. If the progressives and party outsiders keep getting shut out, we will take our votes elsewhere.

2) Kerry will be smeared as a New England Liberal who is soft on guns, national defense and crime and who will raise your taxes. He will be called "aloof" and "elitist" and "smug" and "not in touch with the average American". He will lose at least 40 states.

3) Kerry is the least electable of all the candidates yet the media and Democratic establishment is forcing this myth of "electablity" down our throats. Most of the people, including many ordinary Democrats, do what the media tells them, hence the high polls numbers saying Kerry is the most "electable". There is no proof of this except one poll where Kerry leads Bush but all of the candidates are in the MOE in that poll and the poll is meaningless 10 months away from the election.

I will not vote for Kerry. I am ABB. Anybody But Bonesmen.

[krkaufman]

60. A vote other than for the Democratic candidate

FYI... Any vote other than one for the Democratic candidate, *WILL* be a vote for a "Bonesman."

[stickdog]

49. Why worry?

His loss to Bush has already been fore-ordained.

[mlawson]

50. Amazing how many of us feel that way, yet

the DNC machine merrily sails along towards this end. I can't handle another 1984 (or 1988). Once was more than enough for a lifetime.

[KC21304]

58. And thank you for our prediction. I still have yours for Iowa

and New Hampshire if you would like to review them ?

[quaker bill]

51. Can't think of a reason

The analysis seems sound enough for me. I would only add how his pro-IWR stand will actually cut into his otherwise natural liberal base.

[KC21304]

52. I don't know if the GOP will use Theresa's accent against her,

but I never thought a real Democrat on this board would.

[ChrisNYC]

63. Isn't it against the rules to call people "fake" Democrats?

Sorry that pointing out the reality of a campaign to you makes me a Republican.

[ArtieBoy]

62. "Kerry will be painted as

a Massachussetts liberal who's soft on guns and defense and wants to raise taxes." Yeah, and then wait `til the Republicans get ahold of him!

People don't read. They're going to turn on the TV and say, "Which do I want? The gray, dull guy I'm familiar with, or the gray, dull guy I've never heard of?" Hello, Bush! And for those who do study the candidates they'll say, "Let's see...will it be the Yalie Skull & Bonesman billionaire who supports the war, or the Yalie Skull & Bonesman billionaire who supports the war? Hmm..."

As this is my induction into true participation in the political process, I'm getting discouraged. :(

[mitchum]

65. Not at all

Hell, I wanted him as Clinton's running mate in '92

John Kerry will make a FINE President

[Eric J in MN]

66. Wesley Clark would be such a better candidate.

You said that a rich Massachusetts liberal is the worst candidate.

The collorary is that a Southern general is the best candidate.

[TexasSissy]

68. I'm worried about ALL of the candidates. But that's who we have

to choose from. No more, no less. Kerry is, however, the ONLY one who has beated Bush in a straw poll. That's at least something, no matter how seemingly insignificant.

[yellowcanine]

69. Foreign born wife with an accent?

I didn't even know Theresa Heinz was foreign born. And what of it? We should cater to the potential slimeball tactics of Bush or his supporters? Think about what you are saying. You could use the same argument to disqualify a woman candidate, Jewish candidate, African American candidate. Sometimes you really do need to take a stand on principle and this would be one of those times, imo. You are wrong because you would use bigotry as a justification for rejecting an eminently qualified candidate. Yes, it is bigotry when you cater to the bigotry of others.

[Demobrat]

71. Kinda like when Kerry's pushpollers in Iowa

asked people if they would vote for Dean if they knew he was married to a jew?

[californiahippie]

70. I have concerns...

I might feel a bit more confident of winning with Edwards or Clark but hey, maybe it will be a Kerry Clark or a Kerry Edwards ticket, and I think that might help balance things.
Honestly, my biggest fear would be putting Dean against Bush, but if he happened to win, I wouldn't be upset.

[travisleit01]

72. The IWR vote bothers me, but...

I guess I could live with that.

73. I'm worried

Just on gut instinct that I can't defend.

edit-- Maybe I can defend it a little.
I'm worried that Kerry will be branded as a Northeastern elitist.
Even though Bush is a Northeastern elitist so it's not a fair characterization regarding Kerry.
Who says politics is fair?

[indigo32]

74. YES

I am honestly concerned... for the good of our party. I WILL do what I can to support should he be the nominee... but I AM concerned.