Why does DU look more like Free Republic tonight?

[KaraokeKarlton]

Honestly people, what I'm reading is pretty disgusting. What are swing voting Independents such as myself or new voters who might find this place supposed to think? The vile hatred I'm seeing on here is pretty pathetic and to tell you the truth, it's worse than what I see from the far right wing Republicans because you guys are worse on your own party members than you are on Bush for Cripes Sakes. Are the members here no better behaved than the Freepers? Smarten up already. If you folks continue to conduct yourself in such an utterly embarassing and shameful manner, you are never going to expand the Democratic Party. In fact, you're going to drive a bunch of Democrats right out of the party. I'm not kidding here. I haven't even seen Rush Limbaugh behave this badly towards Democrats. What on earth is wrong with you people?

Admins and Mods, I realize this is probably inflammatory, but someone has to say this because at the rate things are going there isn't going to be any way to repair the damage being done. I don't care what anyone tries to say, this is NOT normal for primaries.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Self rule is very difficult

[liberalnurse]

7. My heart goes out in support . I know it is a struggle.

Hang in there....never give up.

[blackcat77]

2. I'm ABB

I have a preference as to who should oppose him in the fall but the first priority is to unify and conquer.

[tishaLA]

3. That's why I have learned to love

that little thread ignore button. It's a lifesaver sometimes.

[Sam Lowry]

4. Relax

The sound and fury here is strangely comforting. It's like having dinner with a big Jewish or Italian family. All political sites or groups are like this. See: political primaries.

[Tatiana]

5. DU on its WORST DAY could never match Free Republic. n/t

[KaraokeKarlton]

12. You're wrong on that one

Free Republic members at least know who the hell the enemy is. They might be knuckle dragging idiots, but they've at least got the common sense to not attack their own teammates! And I hate to say it, but that gives them the upper hand every time. Christ, at least they know who and what they're fighting for. That's more than I can say for this place lately.

[Sam Lowry]

13. Oh come on

Just wait until the GOP has to nominate someone.

[KaraokeKarlton]

15. I'm an impartial observer (Independent)

and I am telling you that the impression of Democrats that I'm getting from all this happy horsehit is that you guys are nucking futs! Does anyone even care what kind of impression they are making on the unaffiliated people who are considering becoming a Democrat and reading this crap? That's what it is...it is CRAP!

Get your shit together Democrats!

[Sam Lowry]

20. *Yawn*

How old are you? Anyone who is old enough to have watched a few primary seasons knows the drill. In a month there will be so much unity you'll want to throw up. Cherish the noise now.

[KaraokeKarlton]

22. Probably older than you

No, there is not going to be any unity. There is already too much bitterness, and it gets worse every day.

[WilliamPitt]

23. Because...

*looking for mirror to give to sad person*

[KaraokeKarlton]

37. I'm not sad at all

I'm disgusted with the behavior I'm seeing, yes, but not sad.

[Sam Lowry]

24. Yeah, probably

Do you realize how much people hate Bush? No unity? Gimme a break.

[KaraokeKarlton]

43. Do you realize that Democrats are beginning to hate each other

nearly as much as they hate Bush?

[WilliamPitt]

45. I don't hate anyone here

and I hope no one hates me, but if they do, then they are people who allow themselves to be ruled by hate when the larger perspective eludes them, and therefore they are not much good in the long run.

Buy the ticket, take the ride. DU is not America.

[Tatiana]

47. I hate you.

Kucinich-lover ;)

[WilliamPitt]

49. D'oh!

:)

[Sam Lowry]

48. Hear hear

"I'm gonna have to blow this kid."
-Howard Dean

[KaraokeKarlton]

53. Good for you

But I must say that what I'm seeing is hate, plain and simple.

[Sam Lowry]

57. If you cry hard enough

You might get a Nobel Peace Prize.

[oasis]

59. Oh! fiddle di dee

[KaraokeKarlton]

65. If you attack each other long and hard enough

you might get George W. Bush another 4 years.

And your point is?

[Duncan Grant]

67. And that ladies and gentlemen proves the poster's original post.

Are we all through here or can we sink a bit lower?

[windansea]

71. perhaps you were not present

when the poster was gleefully sticking knives into any candidate who threatened Dean's supremacy a short month ago?

[angee_is_mad]

76. Remember the poster is an Independent

so it is ok.

[KaraokeKarlton]

81. that's not quite true

I, like everyone else on here, have shared my opinions about the candidates. However, I have always been quite content just talking about my chosen candidate. Yet those with the knives at the ready chose to bring the negativity and attacks onto those threads. When people do that, they tend to get treated with the same kind of behavior. You do realize that if you walk into a bar and smack someone inside the head with your beer mug they are likely to swing back, don't you?

[Duncan Grant]

89. No, I wasn't aware of any gleeful knife sticking.

I'm trusting that KK has a legitimate arguement. I do not support having it both ways around here. I lost my temper tonight (on the defensive for a slanderous irresponsible post) but my practice is to never casually stroll into a candidate thread just to stir up sh*t or insult his supporters.

And I have never posted one of the flame-bait threads you can find in GD Primary tonight.

edit: clarity

[KaraokeKarlton]

91. I'm not completely innocent, but it's not as you're being told either

I make the effort to be polite and nice and would prefer just posting on positive threads about my candidate. However, there's always a few who just can't stand to see people having a good cordial discussion and they barge in and take a big old stinky dump all over those threads. Eventually you get disgusted and let them have it. That's my sin...occassionally reacting badly. I never got a time out though, so I can't be as bad as some would have you believe.

[windansea]

97. an example

remember when GD04 was shut down for a few days and we were all posting in the Politics and Campaigns forum?? yes?

You posted a thread saying that Candidate X (might have been Clark) did not have a good position on legalization of pot...something like that...(if someone with search can pull it up please do)

In this thread I believe info was posted from norml (or some pro legalization org) that in fact Clark had a B+ rating, while Dean had a D minus rating....and you then proceeded to attack Clark for reasons completely unrelated to legalization.

I think if you take a look at that thread you will realize that you have not always been content to "post on positive threads about your candidate"

[KaraokeKarlton]

103. That thread was in response to a similar thread started attacking Dean

The attack Dean thread was begun by a Clark supporter and the thread had become a bit of a pro-Clark/anti-Dean circle jerk. Oh, and I distinctly recall your eager participation on that Dean bashing thread, not to mention a few anti-Dean threads you started, too. Pardon me for pointing this out, but you're hardly standing on the high ground. Like I pointed out to someone else...my memory is quite good.

[windansea]

104. I'm not the one complaining

or pretending innocence...post the threads if you like...probably better if you just get some sleep and fight the good fight another day...

[Duncan Grant]

99. Are you a gleeful knife sticker or aren't you?

And if so, can a gleeful knife sticker win the Noble Prize? :evilgrin:

I still think you made some valid points about the level of discourse around GD tonight. It stunk (check out those thread titles). Looks like we're all going to be very busy when the 'making amends' threads appear after the primaries. ;)

[KaraokeKarlton]

102. I've never "gleefully" stuck any knives

I've stuck a few out of frustration and disgust, but never with glee.

[Sam Lowry]

74. I've had the meat

You?

[Duncan Grant]

92. Thank you for illustrating my point.

I couldn't make this arguement without you. :hi:

[KaraokeKarlton]

75. Oh I'm sure it can go much lower

Afterall, I haven't been compared to a Nazi yet. ;)

[janx]

79. Dean was though.

Remember the Nazi pic?

[KaraokeKarlton]

83. Actually, I have been

and yes, I remember.

[Sam Lowry]

85. Come off yer cross, Karl

Sorry to keep hammering at you, buddy, but I think most would agree that you're just asking for it now.

[KaraokeKarlton]

88. Actually, "buddy" doesn't really apply to me

But "ma'am" might.

I'm "asking for it"? Asking for what, Sam?

[Sam Lowry]

94. Alright

I was baiting you and I apologize.

BUT: my larger point remains. You can relax, I think, because this sort of thing comes and goes every election year. Four years ago I was hard for Bradley and wanted to shit on Gore. Yet after Dec. 2000, I was ready to take a bullet for him. So will 99.7% of everyone here regarding the Dem. nominee. Dig?

[KaraokeKarlton]

96. Don't stop carrying on as you were just because you found out I don't have

a penis. Thank you for illustrating the original point I was making, though. I didn't even have to argue to prove the truth in what I posted.

The fact of the matter is that many people on here are behaving like assholes and it's very unbecoming. The message I want people to leave this thread with is that it might be more fitting to hold the standard of behavior around here a bit higher than what we're seeing. Dig?

[Sam Lowry]

100. Karlton,

I offer you an olive branch, and you poop in my face!

And I was making fun of you for your tone, not your politics. I don't give a rat's dick if you're for Dean or Ronnie James Dio (who is running for president, check it out: http://dioforamerica.com/), so I don't think I DID prove your point. I just think you're in the mood for conflict right now.

[KaraokeKarlton]

101. I just don't like it when someone treats me differently

when they figure out that I'm a woman. You did prove my point in this thread, whether you want to admit it or not. And the way I see it, you will either take that as an opportunity to learn something and grow as a member of the DU community, or not. I'm not asking for an olive branch. I'm suggesting that you (and everyone else)think before posting about how your words make those you're speaking to feel. I don't care who people support or what issues they care about there is NO excuse for the level the discussion on this site has sunk to. The moderators and admins are at their wits end having to deal with this nonsense, and they shouldn't have to. Rules upon rules upon rules have been put in place because of the complete and utter lack of self control amid the DU membership. Very few are completely innocent, myself included. The fact of the matter is this...I know that I've been trying my best to play nice. Some people make it very difficult. To those people I say knock the shit, dig your head out of your ass and get with the program. If you aren't part of the plan, you're part of the problem and if you don't contribute in a productive way you are a liability to this community. The plan is to get rid of Bush, not decimate the candidates. And for once, don't buy into the ploy of fear. Look at the candidates based on the issues and what you agree with and vote for the one you really believe will represent what you believe in best, regardless of who that might be. Stop letting the goddamned Republicans set the rules of the elections and you'll stop losing.

(The "you" in this thread applies to whoever the hell is reading this, not just who it was posted to!)

Okay, my ranting is done for the night.

[WilliamPitt]

21. Yeh, you're impartial

or not. Shall I do a web search using your name and the word 'Dean'?

You don't want me to. It'll burts this bubble of self-righteousness. Trust me.

[angee_is_mad]

28. Do it, Do it

pretty please!

I am so sick and tired of DUers whose candidate was polling extremely high a month ago and shuffling all these establishment endorsements,bragging about how much money their campaign had raise, starting got whine like a bunch of babies when the things are not looking so rosy now.

But I most say that some of these same people have been very resourceful in swaying other Duer supporters(whose candidates are in the lower tier)to double team the Kerry campaign. Like they really care about Clark and his supporters!

Hell yeah, bring all this crap back up so at least the ones who are being persuaded can see what time it really is.

By the way I am a Clark supporter and a Realist.

[Tatiana]

36. Good points.

I always enjoy your posts.

Point is we are facing a threat to our very well-being. An immediate threat. It's name is Bush. Removing him from office should be our primary focus, and I think most Democrats realize this.

[angee_is_mad]

52. I think they do now

it is just so ironic how some Duers are whining, but just four weeks ago they were attacking people who made other choices.

[KaraokeKarlton]

30. I am Party impartial

Which means that I am able to clearly see and recognize bad behavior in both parties. Everyone knows I support Dean. The vast majority of Vermonters do. No, I'm not innocent of taking part in all this. I get pissed off just as much as anyone. It's one thing for an Independent, Republican or Green to attack any given Democrat in the way I'm seeing...but Democrats are attacking and alienating each other. I have to say that it's one of the sickest things I've ever witnessed. It's no less hateful than the same Republican behaviors often criticized on here. It's really not.

[WilliamPitt]

33. Are you really, really capable

of finding a mirror somewhere and saying "My behavior has not at any point alienated anyone who would normally be an ally," can you do that and face your own eyes?

I don't think so. You were the sharp end of the sword around here for a long, long time. I'm not taking anything away from you about that. But I am curious about this new perspective of victimhood you are displaying here, about this "Where's the rest of me?!?" attitude. It is not in character.

Go check my post below. #19.

[KaraokeKarlton]

51. This is not victimhood in any way, shape or form

This is an attempt to get the people who post here to realize that if things continue as they have been that Bush is going to win. This is not about candidates it's about each other.

To be perfectly honest with you, I have nothing to gain or lose personally if Democrats choose to pound the crap out of each other. However, I have made some friends on here who ARE being hurt by this behavior. My rant is for them, not for me.

[Sam Lowry]

63. *

That's pretty twisted.

[Sam Lowry]

39. Two Points

1) Relax, it's fun.

2) Voters at large don't read this page anyway.

[angee_is_mad]

40. This is called Democratic Underground

so does that mean that you are no longer an independent, but a Democrat?

If you are an independent what drew you to this site? Was it to blast non-Dean supporters and then excuse your behavior by saying, I am an independent so it is OK to degrade and humiliate democrats with differing opinions?

[WilliamPitt]

41. Woop

There it is.

Bedtime.

[KaraokeKarlton]

61. I WAS thinking of changing my registration to Democrat

But decided quite awhile back against that. I'm here because I support a Democrat for president. As far as degrading or humiliating democrats, I honestly wouldn't need to do that even if I wanted to because enough of you are doing quite a good job of it all on your own...which is why I started this thread in the first place.

[angee_is_mad]

68. what is your definition

of degrading and humiliation? I have a feeling that my interpretation of it is EXTREMELY different from yours. Especially if one was to view prior posts.

[KaraokeKarlton]

73. If you view my prior posts

You will find that I show the same level of respect to people as they show me. If someone is rude to me, they're likely to be met with snide comments intended to bother them. If someone is polite and respectful to me, that's what they can expect from me. So angee, if you and I have had exchanges in the past that were unpleasant for you it was probably because you behaved in an unpleasant way yourself.

[angee_is_mad]

77. or maybe

defending myself? I know the truth hurts, but you need to wake up and repent!

[KaraokeKarlton]

87. Defending yourself?

Angee, I have a very, very good memory. I know exactly what thread you're talking about. You go right ahead and post a link if you want to, but you might want to go back and read it again before you do.

[Tatiana]

14. We know what we're fighting for.

We just disagree on who we want to lead the charge.

We're not sheeple. We do have disagreements of opinion. We are passionate... extremely passionate sometimes.

These are all characteristics that I love about DU. We're individuals who think for ourselves, research, and draw our own conclusions. Yes, this sometimes leads to a big headache for the admins and mods, but I honestly wouldn't have it any other way.

[KaraokeKarlton]

17. You're fighting only to destroy each other

This isn't disagreement...this is just disgusting. Anyone who claims otherwise is full of shit. Period.

[Tatiana]

18. That's part of the primary process, unfortunately.

I don't want to destroy Dean. Or Kerry. Or Edwards. Or Kucinich.

Yeah, maybe Lieberman, but I can't be blamed for that.

Other than that I will support whomever is the nominee.

[janx]

55. Hurling sophomoric insults around on a message board is

"part of the primary process" ?

:nopity:

[Tatiana]

58. No.

But the point some posters here are making as that the author of this thread has engaged in hurling those very same sophomoric insults you reference around on this messageboard.

[janx]

62. So the point is to hurl it back?

This is nothing but an infantile and egotistical cyber board game. When things get this bad on DU, I wonder if I'm not corresponding with a percentage of posters who are ten-year-olds.

[Tatiana]

64. No, we shouldn't.

Unfortunately, for some, it's a knee-jerk reaction, if you will, to respond in kind.

I have great faith in Dean, personally, and know he will turn things around.

[angee_is_mad]

31. Have you ever insulted

anyone on here? Do you really care if you did?

Maybe someone felt insulted by your response to their post. Maybe that was disgusting to them.

Do not throw stones!

[KaraokeKarlton]

70. Actually angee, aside from the occassional rant directed at no one person

(like this one) I make it a point not to be rude or snarky towards anyone unless they first are rude to me. You see, those people who get a rise out of being hateful are quite likely to get a taste of my cutting sarcasm from time to time, simply because that is what their behavior warrants. You'll have that sometimes.

[angee_is_mad]

78. Good spin!

[janx]

42. Good for you, KK.

This is one discussion board out of many. People are hardly influencing the outcome of any election by throwing excrement in this sandbox.

It's just so damn much FUN for some people though--much better than doing something constructive.

[JVS]

25. The advantage they have most is a coherent ideology.

Is it bullshit? Yes, but systematic and non-contradictory bullshit. This gives them a guide, a moral compass if you will, to unify them towards their goal.

What do we have here? ABB seems to be the dominant creed. But this is not so much a coherent ideology as a slogan, or even an expression of dispair. We don't know what we are fighting for because we have forgone desires and goals in the pure hope of replacing Bush.

[KaraokeKarlton]

90. I agree completely

It's called giving into the playing of fear. This is what Bush wants because it gives him all the power and prevents Democrats for offering a real alternative that will beat him. He's a terrible president, but he's a brilliant and effective politician. :shrug:

[Duncan Grant]

6. And out of the hysteria...one lone voice of reason emerges.

This post should get kicked to the top of the page for the next 6 weeks. You just made my day! :yourock:

[Frances]

8. I am for ABB

and I try not to read the negative comments because I get enough negative vibes just thinking about Bush

[Zomby Woof]

9. as a student of history

We have had far worse elections than these. As for what is "normal", well, these aren't normal times, but neither is the present acrimony more or less typical than what has gone on before in our short 228 years as a republic.

The internet has changed the metabolism of political arguments - instant communication and replication of ideas and so forth. The last time the Democrats fielded competing candidates in a primary was 14 years ago. The internet was not nearly as widespread, and hence, all of the rhetoric and differences seemed tamer by what was more obscured then by lack of widespread visibility and easy access.

I have to dismiss outright the notion that we are experiencing some kind of unprecedented nastiness in a primary campaign.

Hell, at least we don't have duels these days, a la Hamilton and Burr. Now THAT was taking political and personal differences to a different level.

[woofless]

26. Add to that the anonymity of the Internet.

People say things here they wouldn't have the stones to say in person I'll bet. It is easy to spout off when you are alone in your little room.

Woof

[Zomby Woof]

32. not true in my case

Lifelong friends and family can attest to my penchant for bluntness and ballsiness. The internet may shed those inhibitions for others, but I need no help. :-)

Plus, I have my cat in here with me, so I am not alone. ;-)

[janx]

35. Yes. See my post #11.

That's the extent of it.

[madrchsod]

10. what`s different tonight than

any other night? (well there`s not many "hamm" posts) it`s been like this for awhile and probaly till after the convention..politics as usual.

[janx]

11. Because some people have very bad manners.

And others like the game of hiding behind their computers while insulting people.

That's about the extent of it. It really has nothing to do with politics or the future of this country.

[Duncan Grant]

80. Bingo!

Why people here mistake kindness for weakness -- I'll never understand. :shrug:

Unfortunately, I blew a gasket myself tonight in response to a 'Trippi is a crook' absconding with 'our' money (of course, it wasn't a Dean supporter).

That sort of duplicity makes my eyes cross and steam jets from my ears. There might be something to that 'ignore' feature after all...but I've resisted using it, so far.

[janx]

84. Mistaking kindness for weakness is often an error made by those

who have never had to be very strong.

G'night!

[krkaufman]

16. Thanks for the post

Will try to keep it civil. Thanks.

I think, though, that we sometimes become more extreme in the face of media indifference and even outright antagonism to our points-of-view. The Bill Maher interview on 'Larry King Live' tonight was a good pressure release.

EDIT: For example, the media annointing one of our candidates as the "Party's presumptive nominee" after only 2 tiny states -- accounting for less than 2% of delegates -- have had their say.

[WilliamPitt]

19. Because your chosen candidate is 0-2?

Just a guess.

Suck it up. I work for a guy who has gathered a total of 3% in Iowa and New Hampshire combined. There is larger game afoot, on many levels.

[not systems]

29. Will speaks the truth right here.

Everyone keep moving forward in whatever way you see fit.

The real battles are yet to come for all of us.

[KaraokeKarlton]

93. Nope, that has nothing to do with it

In fact, I have made several rants calling for people to curb their bad behavior even when my chosen candidate was leading in all the polls. This isn't some new philosphy I've just found recently. I can see where you might think that, but it's just not the case. I also didn't single out any one group of supporters in this thread because it's pretty evenly spread all around.

You're wrong.

[frustrated_lefty]

27. Quite honestly,

I am a Dean supporter. I'm considering the possibility that Kerry may get the nod, as could Edwards or even Clark. What I'm doing now is looking through every bit of history I can find with regard to stances on policy.

I am ABB. I want to understand our eventual candidate, and I want to be able to stand up to my mostly republican co-workers in Louisiana and offer an honest defense on their record. What I'm finding, doing research, is that the dirt on Kerry is a mile deep, his vote waves with the wind, and he will be attacked from both the right and the left. The attacks won't occur because he's a moderate of any kind, but because he hasn't (pardon me) shown the balls to stand up for any issue for any moral reason.

I'll vote for him, if it comes to that. And maybe I sound Freeperish, but there is a LOT in his record which is putting me off. And it isn't a gut-instinctual Dean vs. Kerry dislike, I'm honestly looking at his votes. I don't like them.

[QC]

34. This must be the first time at the rodeo for a lot of people.

I've followed quite a few campaigns, and I can't remember any of them being Rainbow Brite's Happy Meadow. Seems like all of them get pretty heated. Candidates attack each other, their supporters resent the attacks, the candidates counterattack, etc. So far this campaign looks perfectly normal to me.

[WilliamPitt]

38. Rainbow Brite's Happy Meadow

Best. Line. Ever.

:)

[QC]

54. Thanks, and congrats on the new job! n/t

[frustrated_lefty]

44. First time at the rodeo

Look at the polls so far, it appears it is. Record turnouts. So you have a politically naieve segment trying to participate. Invite them in, don't snub them.

[Zomby Woof]

46. We did invite them in

But they puked all over the rug, spilled beer on the drapes, and boy, will Mom and Dad be pissed when they get home! :spank:

[frustrated_lefty]

60. That's a fair criticism

They need to be smacked on the nose with a rolled up newspaper and dragged into the process. I include myself in that "they." I have followed politics, but this is my first time actually voting.

Chalk me up as ignorant if you want to, but you have a wealth of possibilities here. Maybe they did puke on the rug and spill beer on the drapes, but you have a wide section of this populace that feels disenfranchised. It may even be a rude segment of the populace, but the trick is bringing them into the fold.

Democrats WIN by talking about issues, and we should talk with young people too. An informed population is a strong population, and a strong population is a strong nation. Notice, despite my love for the man, I did not advocate Dean. This is just what we have to do.

[Tatiana]

50. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Rainbow Brite's Happy Meadow." I've GOT to use that one!

[Duncan Grant]

56. This poor little thread got stopped on the way to school...

and had it's lunch money stolen! :evilgrin:

Take heart KaraokeKarlton...some of post here are from people who pleaded for more civility in GD just a few short weeks ago! Isn't it good to know that all future posts such as this can be attributed to the 'sour grapes' pathology? :eyes: It sure makes your arguement a lot easier to dismiss.

Keep fighting the good fight!

[frustrated_lefty]

66. KK may slap me for speaking a few words here,

but here are thoughts.

Dean supporters are desperately aware there is something really wrong with our presidential (s)election process.

The media holds entirely too much sway in our selection of candidates. KK has good thoughts, I think we all could do well to pay attention to them.

[KaraokeKarlton]

98. It's not just about Dean, frustrated lefty

it's about the whole tone here. People from all camps are getting their jollies off of intentionally trying to be hurtful to others. It's wrong. We need to stop it.

[KaraokeKarlton]

95. Isn't it ironic

when a thread is started to make a point and the responses prove the point so well that you don't even really have to argue it beyond the original post? :D

[Anwen]

69. It's a little disturbing.

I am a Dean supporter and I am pretty sickened at the level of hatefulness toward him tonight. People seem gleeful that his campaign has hit a rough spot and are actually cheering for him to crash and burn. I find it disheartening and disgusting.

And don't use the argument "Well Dean people were mean to Kerry, etc." I have NEVER made a rude remark to anybody's choice of candidate, so I think that argument is a weak justification. I have never taken joy in seeing another Democrat fail.

I find hatefulness toward any Dem very disturbing. Maybe I'm naive. But all this candidate-bashing is very disappointing to see.

[angee_is_mad]

72. I appreciate your post

and I sense the sincerity in it.

I do have a favor to ask of you. The next time you see a Dean supporter bashing another candidate make a post just like this one.

You may have already done so, I am not sure. But there is enough blame to go around. The only supporters on here who have not really been a target is DK's and we can all speculate the reason for that.

[Anwen]

86. Favor granted.

I've seen ugliness from ALL sides. Usually I try to ignore it, but it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Of course I get more offended when it's directed toward my candidate of choice, but I also find it just as distasteful when it's in the reverse. The level of some peoples attacks is still shocking to me. I hope everyone realizes in the end it's ABB!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

82. Yes it's one thing to attack on merit

to pour salt in wounds is quite another.

[seaglass]

105. So does this mean you're turning over a new leaf?

I'm all for everyone starting fresh and I'm willing to give you another chance KK.

Hopefully many more will join in your effort; I'll do my best to refrain from responding to any nasty attacks too.:-)

[Skinner]

106. I'm locking

without comment.