Ralph Nader may be getting closer to joining the race tonight.

[Cascadian]

As a result of Dean's current situation and the fact that Kucinich does not have a chance, it would seem to me that Ralph Nader is one step closer to getting into the 2004 presidential race. Nader has said that if Kucinich or Dean do not get the nomination, he would enter the race. Don't tell me I did not warn you all!

Now I voted for Nader in 1996. I voted for him as a protest of Clinton's center-right shift in some of his policies. I voted for Gore in 2000 when I saw that the race was very close. I will vote for the Democratic candidate this time around. This is not the time for dividing ourselves. I still hope it's Howard Dean but those chances have just gotten slimmer. I hate to say it but it maybe the truth. I am totally convinced that another split of the left vote will spell four more years of Bush and possibly the death of democracy in America. If that happens, then the Republicans will be the only legal party in the U.S. The Democratic Party will just be token opposition.

John

[Feanorcurufinwe]

1. Actually you've got that wrong

Nader said he was much more comfortable with Kerry than Dean. I mean, it's natural, why would he choose a centrist budget hawk governor over a liberal environmentalist senator?

[krkaufman]

2. The Democratic Party will just be token opposition.

Ummmm.... Where have you been the last THREE years?!?

[ibegurpard]

3. Ouch!

Sad but true. And their track record doesn't look to improve if things continue on this bent.

[Cascadian]

7. I know what you mean.

They are pretty close to being a token opposition party. The only other country I know that has token opposition parties is North Korea.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/kn.html

Look for "political parties"


John

[Cascadian]

9. another better link!

http://www.vnc.nl/korea/pol.htm



Tells you about the so-called "opposition" in North Korea.



John

[Bombtrack]

4. So we're going to be held hostage by the guy partially responsible for *

being elected.

The guy has lost it. He isn't goning to get a percent of what he got in 2000 if he runs, and Clark or Kerry or Edwards are all stronger candidates than Gore was

[Bombtrack]

5. If Nader wanted 2 do anything for his constituancy, the anti-moderate left

he could challenge Lieberman, the great Satan of that constituancy, in the connecticut democratic primary.

But he won't because he's a counterproductive annoyance and a jackass

[NV1962]

6. I don't think Nader is a masochist

...but for the sake of retroactive schadenfreude over 2000, I hope he is. Bring it on Ralph, here's a nicely cooled barrel of reality sitting ready for ya.

What's he thinking, really - has he done a crash test too many or what?

[ThirdWheelLegend]

8. I don't think Nader ever said that in regards to Dean...

I don't remember ever reading Nader say he would not run if Dean was the nominee. He did imply that in regards to Kucinich, but I never heard it about Dean. Dean is a centrist, I don't see how Nader would see a Dean nomination as a reason not to run as an alternative.
:shrug:

Do you have a link to the quote?

TWL

[Melodybe]

10. He said it, I remember the article

Someone posted it here a long time ago.

[Cascadian]

13. If anybody can find out where that article is....

Please post it up again. I could not find my past postings. It went back in the fall sometime. Sorry guys!


John

[Terwilliger]

16. Nader never said it

He said he liked Dean, but that he wouldn't run if Kucinich got the nomination.

[ShimokitaJer]

29. He didn't even say that much

I believe he said he liked the grassroots nature of Dean's campaign, but has never actually said he liked Dean. However, despite Dean's fairly centrist approach, I believe Nader could be brought over to the Dean camp if Dean keeps up his attention to progressive issues such as health care. And frankly, I believe Nader would be a positive influence in Dean's campaign as well, increasing his commitment to social issues.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

34. have to disagree.. Dean isn't progressive on health care

Dean's plan still leaves 10million unisnured and keeps the profit in the health insurance industry.

Progressives want single payer Universal health CARE, not insurance.

TWL

[Cascadian]

11. It was from some DUer.

A while back somebody posted a response from one of my previous postings that stated ( I wished I remembered what it was about. It was a few months ago.) that Nader would not enter the race if Kucinich or Dean get the nomination. I will try to find the post.


John

[ThirdWheelLegend]

12. I remember the Kucinich quote...but I think it was misread on Dean

I rememeber the Kucinich quote, but I believe the quote about Dean was Nader saying something nice about Dean, not mentioning Dean's effect on any possible run.

:shrug:

TWL

[Cascadian]

14. Not really the article I was look for but...

interesting regardless.....


The Greens dilemma of wether to bring Nader into the 2004 race or not.


http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/2004/01/01_403.html



John

[diamondsoul]

36. Ok TWL, here's what I've observed-

Nader fully supports Kucinich and says so openly and publicly. At least twice in the past three weeks.

Now here's the rub- he won't endorse officially.(grrr!)

His position really is that the nominee isn't at issue where his candidacy is concerned. He's exploring how much support there is for him to run, period. I have not seen any quote that he stated outright "I will not run if Howard Dean is the Dem nominee.", however I HAVE seen and heard him state this about Kucinich being the nominee.

He appears to have some respect for Governor Dean, but not to the degree that he has stated he flat won't run. Even the following link much cited by Dean supporters NEVER says Nader won't run if Dean is the Nominee. Instead that's a contention put forth by the author of the article and never commented on by Mr. Nader.

http://www.ilgreenparty.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=427

[ThirdWheelLegend]

37. Makes sense, Nader is considering where his support is

Nader would probably not run if Kucinich is the nominee because Nader's support would be represented by Kucinich almost 100%. Nader makes comments on the supporters of Dean as having some similar views. However Dean's actual policies are much more in line with what Gore offered. And that is not the alternative that Nader wishes to offer.

? Did I make any sense?

TWL

[diamondsoul]

41. Perfect sense.

I do think that there's something new from our friend Mr. Nader-

I think he's realized that another 4 years of Bush would be worse than anything he ever dreamt of in relation to waking the Dem Party up, and that he's decided it's really maybe not worth the risk.

I admire him for that. You're totally right about what Nader's intent is. He's offering to be the voice of those who have absolutely HAD IT with Democratic Party "compromising" and "pragmatism". He wants to see radical change and he isn't about to back down until he sees it happening. Man, but I LOVE HIM for that!

[booksenkatz]

15. Oooooh, we stand warned.

Look, who has time for perfectionists who are content to throw a tantrum, sit and tap their feet impatiently and wait for perfection while the world gets blown apart for another 4 years? Who the heck needs fair-weather Democrats? I'll vote for the Dem, even if he is only 1/8" to the left of Bush, because that 1/8" will still save some lives, maybe even mine, maybe even yours.

There is no time for perfection.
Because there is no such thing as perfection.

After I hit age 40, I've learned to settle for half a loaf any time I can get it. I know which side my bread is buttered on. Heck, the Repubs know which side their bread is buttered on, they're extremely good at standing together, and as a result, they have achieved total world power, for cryin out loud. I refuse to sacrifice the planet and my son's future just so that I can feel all warm and runny inside that "I've got my principles."
:eyes:
I want to get the Dem in there, and then we can quibble about policy thereafter. But we've got to get the Dem in there first!

A Clark supporter who is an ABB yellow dog Dem!

[Terwilliger]

17. perfection? how about opposition?

courage?

conviction?

When Dems can generate any of that, let me know!

[Iverson]

18. Hey, there's plenty.

The great challenge is to redirect that easy facility rightward instead of left.

[booksenkatz]

19. Can't disagree with you there

I am angry with my reps right now; only my senator, Levin, is representing me in any way at the moment. Yes, I want to inject some backbone into every one of them! Absolutely!

But as for the election for POTUS? That election isn't about me or what makes me feel good. It's bigger than what makes me personally 100% happy. (And since when has a Dem been more concerned with his own personal happiness anyway? That's what the Repub party is about... "Screw the world, as long as I'm happy.") I'm frankly not 100% happy with any Dem that is running... so what? I've agreed to vote for your "dreamboat" (whoever it may be) in the G.E. if you'll vote for my "dreamboat." That's the deal, isn't it? I'm kinda disgusted with the Dems who fully expect me to support their boy in the G.E. but won't do the same for me and my boy. If your half-eaten hot dog wins over my stack of bricks, then I'll vote for your half-eaten hot dog. But either one is better than the pile of cow dung currently in office.

All I can say is that if we don't learn to put aside our differences and rally around the Dem who wins the nom in the end, we will continue to sit on the sidelines bitch-biting while the BFEE continues its path to Armageddon. We Dems are proving ourselves to be more stupid than the Freeps, who at least have the brains to unite. Look what they've got that we haven't got. Let's fight about the other stuff later, after we've gotten all 3 branches of power back.

[diamondsoul]

39. Terwilliger, I absolutely love you.

I mean it. You're just a great human being.

Listen until Tuesday night I was getting really, REALLY scared about things. It looks bad right now. Scratch a little, my friend. It's not as bad as it seems.

I found out I kick freakin' ARSE for Kucinich! It's not hard, but you have to believe in him, and you have to know the things people don't know but need to. Like the fact that he sued the President not once but TWICE!

Like the fact that on balancing budgets he's the guy running on the smallest available capital with ZERO debt!

Like the fact that the lawsuit over withdrawal from Kyoto sets his precident for withdrawing from NAFTA and the WTO!

Like the fact that he has the heart of a President as evidenced by this article written by a Republican who likely knows his very own President wouldn't have given a flying fig-

http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/news/campaign_compassion.html

Like the fact that age TEN he dreamt of representing the people of this country! Criminy, how many 10 yr olds are dreaming of being public servants?? Most of them want to be cowboys, firemen, policemen or to work in a candy store! LOL Not this man. He wanted to help people.

My point? Hang in there, be strong and lets pull this country out of the fire...TOGETHER!

[Loonman]

20. Get lost, Ralph

The stakes are too high this year for your chicanery.

[dusty64]

21. This is not

good news even though we already only have token opposition in this Country. Four more years of this will probably insure my vote for a third party for the first time in my life. I really don't like nader he is only out to benefit nader. I wish he would just go away.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. Nader joining could be good

He's going the votes he did last time around. He wouldn't even if he was running as the Green. Too many people are scared (like I am) of Bush getting back in.

But what he can bring to the table is this: if the Dem nominee is particularly moderate, Ralph can keep alive those issues that are important to a lot of progressives. No, he won't get votes for doing so, but he will keep Bush and Mr. X talking about it all.

[HPLeft]

23. Nader Offers Nothing in the Cycle

The protest vote approach doesn't solve any of Americas problems. But he's free to run. Dubya's going down in November 2004 whether Nader's on the ballot or not.

[mdmc]

24. I just received an exploritory email

asking for confirmation, voluenteer info, and a donation. I responded in an email subject line "Please wait to fundraise until after Kuninich leaves race."

[John_H]

25. RUN Ralphy RUN!!!!

My god, for a megalomainac like ralph, utter rejection by 99 percent of American voters would be a horrible, horrible fate. Which is exactly what he deserves.

[angryblackmale]

26. I hope Nader runs

it seems that he has a plan to defeat the Bush administration.

[Ficus]

27. welcome

and what plan is that? Or were you being sarcastic?

[angryblackmale]

30. No welcomes needed

I was a 3 year member known as "messiah" before I lost my password.
I think Nader has a plan to take away republican votes from Bush. I have listened closely to his language for a month now and it seems he plans to run against Bush and not the democratic candidate in some way.

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. it would not surprise me

he's very cagey.

I regret so many Dems are angry with him and not the electoral system we have, because he's done a lot of good for this country.

[Ficus]

32. welcome back then

hmmm. So do you think he'll really take away Republican votes from Bush? I mean, what Republican would vote for Ralph Nader? Certainly not social conservative, nor economic conservatives?

I don't hate the guy, I just don't see his logic. A left leaning candidate would have to compete against the leftward most party for that natural voting bloc.

[messiah]

38. You know

in Florida he got about 50/50 dem rep vote. Republicans voted for Nader because he's not a democrat. In the 04 election what democrat will have the balls to vote for Nader except for a few?. Most of his votes he would get if he were to run correctly would come from republicans.
Got my account back!....

[newyawker99]

33. Hi angryblackmale!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[zulchzulu]

28. Making my pies for when Ralph comes to my town

Whatever my dog excreted that morning would make a perfect filling for a pie for Ralph.

[sangh0]

35. Dean must be getting desperate

if he has to use Nader to scare people into voting for him

[sangh0]

40. Mars may be getting closer to invading Earth

Or maybe not!


:shrug: