Testing-makes-you-stronger Department: "Is Clark a neocon?"

[arendt]

From a nuclear-hardened bunker somewhere in N. America,
the following question is asked:

Clark supporters:

If, as you say about Dean, the primaries are to test the candidates,
here is a test for Clark. This column appeared in Counterpunch
three months ago. I haven't heard these charges repeated again
or investigated in the kind of "Marathon Man" tooth-drilling
depth that has been done to Dean.

Study these snips. Find the whole article. Respond. Of course
I recognize the lack of documentation in some places, e.g.,
"Pentagon insiders". But, the Pristina Airport story is in wide
circulation with corroboration. And, the constant side-by-side-
ness with Feith is most worrying.

As you can see, Madsen finds the DLC about as loathsome as
the PNAC.


Counterpunch
September 18, 2003

Wesley Clark for President?
Another Con Job from the Neo-Cons

By WAYNE MADSEN

<snip>

According to Pentagon insiders, when Clark was Commander of the US Southern Command in Panama from June 1996 to July 1997, he was fond of "ordering" Latin American military commanders and defense ministers to appear before him. Some of the Latin American officials, particularly those from Brazil, Argentina, and Chile, refused to be bullied by Clark, whose personality is said to be acerbic. From his pro-consul position in Panama, Clark supported with US military advisers and American mercenaries, continued warfare against anti-oligarchic movements in Colombia, Peru, Guatemala, Mexico, and Bolivia.

Fast forward to the Kosovo wars when Clark was NATO commander. Not only did Clark lord over the first unprovoked aerial bombardment of a major European city (Belgrade) since Adolf Hitler's Luftwaffe pounded virtually defenseless European cities, but he almost got into a shooting war with Russian peacekeeping troops in Kosovo.

<snip>

Before becoming NATO Commander, Clark was the Director for Strategic Plans and Policy within the Joint Chiefs of Staff. From this vantage point, Clark was well aware of and likely supported the arming of the Bosnian government by accepting contributions from various deep-pocketed Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, Iran, Malaysia, Brunei, Jordan, and Egypt. Via something called the Bosnia Defense Fund, these countries deposited millions of dollars into U.S. coffers to buy weapons for the Bosnians and train them in their use through the use of private military contractors like Military Professional Resources, Inc. (MPRI). And when some of the weapons and cash for the Bosnians became "unaccounted for," where did some of the guns and cash wind up? In the hands of Al Qaeda and Iranian Pasdaran (Revolutionary Guard) units in Bosnia.

More interestingly is how General Clark's Bosnia strategy ultimately goes full circle. According to Washington K Street sources, the law firm that established the Bosnia Defense Fund was none other than Feith and Zell, the firm of current Pentagon official and leading neo-con Douglas Feith. Feith's operation at Feith and Zell was assisted by his one-time boss and current member of Rumsfeld's Defense Policy Board, Richard Perle. Both Feith and Perle advised the Bosnian delegation during the 1995 Dayton Peace talks. The chief U.S. military negotiator in Dayton was Wesley Clark.

<end snips, total less than four paragraphs>

So, I have some questions about Clark's behavior towards
South America, his long dealings with Feith, one of the
main neocons, and, generally, the contradiction between
the "butter would melt in his mouth" persona he projects
on the campaign trail and the history of being really brutal.

Is the guy Dick Butkus? (famous Chicago Bears linebacker
who said he was such a pussycat off the field because he
got to go out and crack heads once a week to let off his
aggression.) Or is the guy Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde?

Thinking people want to know.

------

OK. That's how it feels when someone dumps a load of garbage
on your candidate. Did this help the Democratic Party? I don't
know. I just know that Clark supporters have done this to Dean
and said it helped the party.

Just doing my part.

arendt

on edit: changed movie ref from B from B to MM.

[meegbear]

1. Boys from Brazil" tooth-drilling?

Please advise.

[arendt]

2. Infamous movie scene...

Lawrence Olivier ties Dustin Hoffman to a dentist chair,
gets out a drill, and drills down to the nerve, and keeps
drilling. Since Olivier's character is a dentist, he knows
how to inflict maximum pain.

Not a scene for the squemish.

arendt

[cryofan]

14. Is it safe? IS IT SAFE?

Clark is more like the pitbull of the neocons. Whether or not he would institute the same policies remains to be seen. What we can say is that all of the other candidates go along with the neocon/neoliberal philosophies except for Kucinich and Sharpton. So, in that respect we could say that Clark is an unknown with respect to neocon/neoliberal.

[Beaker]

3. I think he might be confusing BFB with Marathon Man...

Sir Laurence was in both...

[arendt]

5. you're right. My bad. n/t

[chiburb]

4. I get your point, but consider your source...

"Mr. Madsen has some twenty years experience in computer security and data privacy. As a U.S. Naval Officer he managed one of the first computer security programs for the U.S. Navy. He subsequently worked for the National Security Agency, the Naval Data Automation Command, Department of State, RCA Corporation, and Computer Sciences Corporation."

Perhaps his "Pentagon insiders" have an agenda? Maybe he does?

On edit: I understand that this post doesn't address your topic. I'll leave that for the Clark supporters...

[arendt]

6. If you know more about Madsen, please share

When people say software and Arkansas, the next thing that usually
comes up is Inslaw and Promis.

That is such a conspiratorial mess, that you really have to find
out if Clark's Acxiom people have any relationship to the old
Inslaw company.

YUCK. What a cesspool. (Not Clark, necessarily.)

See why I want a discussion. It will help clear the air.

arendt

[Tinoire]

9. I really wish I didn't have to go to work. Be back soon. n/t

[arendt]

10. Unfortunate. I will be off line for at least six hours. Can someone cover?

Durn. This Xmas is getting in the way of my politics addiction.

arendt

[Tinoire]

7. About Wayne Madsen

He wrote the introduction to "Forbidden Truth". He is the co-author, with John Stanton, of the forthcoming book, "America's Nightmare: The Presidency of George Bush II."

He did some bi-partisan work (provided the technical expertise) with Bob Barr & Jerry Nadler to fight NSA's Echelon to deal with some very important privacy legislation- something I thought was a good thing.

I respect him for his work exposing PNAC, JINSA, Bush, and AEI. When he speaks about neo-cons he's not pulling it out of thin air.

---------------------------------
November 1999

Georgia Republican Bob Barr is leading a congressional movement to force the NSA to answer for spying on U.S. citizens.

"There seems to be very credible evidence that this operation is taking place, and has been taking place for quite some time," says Barr. "At this point, all we're asking for is the basic information telling us what do you at the NSA, the National Security Agency, believe is the legal basis for you to gather this information? That's the starting point: What's the basis that you believe you're authorized to do this?"

That question set off a battle royal between the NSA and the House Intelligence Committee earlier this year. When asked about the legality of their procedures, the agency refused to provide Congress with any information, citing attorney-client privilege.

<snip>

In response, Barr proposed a measure that will require the NSA to report to Congress on the legal standards they use for spying. The measure was passed by the House and is now under consideration by the Senate. Congressional hearings on ECHELON are expected early next year.

<snip>

http://www.shmoo.com/mail/cypherpunks/nov99/msg00222.html

[arendt]

8. Thanks. Boy, this is turning out more civilized than I expected. n/t

[ourwinter]

12. personally

I'm not interested in bashing Dean and dredging things up

Your poke though at "doing my part" appears to be some sort
of coalition building excercise... we are truly becoming a devisive party and in the long term the tone of Dean must be towards cohesion. Sticking behind the "man" behind the Dems will come later -- for now let us try to practice some sort of civility.

In the end the Republicans will show no mercy.

Honestly though getting back to your article I would have to read the entire unedited article to draw any reasonable conclusions, as I would expect you do to do if I was to send you something regarding Dean.

[silverweb]

11. Good luck.

I've read some of the things you mention. I'm related to someone who was stationed in Bosnia and is critical of General Clark in a number of areas. I have strong reservations about the General and an overall aversion to a military man in the White House these days. I want a diplomat and negotiator, who is willing to use force only when absolutely necessary, but who supports a strong military for defense and peace-keeping missions. If Dean doesn't win the nomination, I could live with Clark and I'd support him as the Democratic candidate.

Personally, I think Clark would be well suited as a military advisor or to replace Rummy. I just don't see him as President and thinking of him in that role makes me nervous. I don't think Clark, a life-long military man, has much real understanding of civilian needs for education, jobs, health care, etc. He may make the proper mouth noises, but he's about as qualified to run a civilian government as a celibate priest is to dispense marital sex advice.

Clark has a military-trained perspective on life, not an outlook that ranks civilians above the military, as our country's foundations indicate that he ideally would. To many career military people, civilians are just in the way, an ever-present obstacle to the orderly running of governments.

That said, and being an obvious and vocal Dean supporter, if Clark should win the nomination, I would support him wholeheartedly over anyone in the current misadministration.

[jmaier]

13. You might actually

want to check out Clark's position on use of force which he pretty strongly says is a last resort in his 10 pledges. Link:

http://www.clark04.com/issues/10pledges

BTW, the most anti-Iraq invasion senior Smirk official was Colin Powell -- the only one who wasn't a chicken hawk. I'd say when you find a liberal thinking, multilateralist, very senior ex-military leader in a position of influence that you are LESS likely to veer off into military adventurism. They actually know something about the cost.

Ret. Army General Anthony Zinni is another very good example.

BTW, regarding your comment

"To many career military people, civilians are just in the way, an ever-present obstacle to the orderly running of governments."

Do you have a link, some references, etc. Seems like a pretty broad and hard to defend statement. Or were you just referring to Argentina perhaps?

Yes, I did spend considerable time in the military and I voted for Jesse Jackson in '88 primaries.

[wyldwolf]

15. To original poster: Do you believe everything counterpunch publishes?

And, just a comment:

I haven't heard these charges repeated again
or investigated in the kind of "Marathon Man" tooth-drilling
depth that has been done to Dean.

If you've paid any attention at all to DU over the last three months, all of this has been covered extensively.

[ibegurpard]

16. I guess I missed them

It certainly makes me look at him in a new light.

[wyldwolf]

21. see post #20

[incapsulated]

17. Well, you must've also missed

The General being called a war criminal and Rove plant shortly after he announced. And the many furious Kosovo threads.

This hit piece is so obviously biased and full of hyperbole, it sounds like one of those threads.

I've done my time in them, and I'm sick of them. Especially the Kosovo threads filled with those who deny that Milosovic and company did anything wrong to anybody, and those who tried to stop them where a bunch of war criminals because they used force to do so.

I will reply to any new charges, if you have them.

Well, later I will, I have to go right now, christmas stuff...

[BootinUp]

18. Do you really want to know what I think?

It looks like Clark as an officer in the military, carried out the political policies of our country which was his duty and very successfully. Probably why he was awarded these:

US Decorations and Badges

Defense Distinguished Service Medal with 4 Oak Leaf Clusters

For Bosnia service
Joint Staff, end of tour
For service at U.S. Southern Command
For service as Commander of the Kosovo conflict
For service as Supreme Allied Commander, Europe
Distinguished Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)

1st Cavalry Division
Upon Retirement
Legion of Merit (with 3 Oak Leaf Clusters)

Shape 1979
D.A. Staff 1983
MJC 1986
MJC 1991
Silver Star Medal

Bronze Star Medal (with 1 Oak Leaf Cluster)

Purple Heart

Meritorious Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)

Army Commendation Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)

Combat Infantryman Badge

Parachutist Badge

Ranger Tab

Army Staff Identification Badge

Joint Chiefs of Staff Identification Badge

[BootinUp]

19. There's more where that came from

http://clark04.com/records/quotes/

[wyldwolf]

20. Since the original poster missed this article and the many discussions...

..on it and it's content the first dozen or so times it came around, does this mean it is now time to rehash all the hit pieces on the candidates from months past that people might have missed?

Lemme know!

[Rowdyboy]

22. Right

Why don't we talk about Dean and the confederate flag some more? Oh, we've already beat that dead horse to death? Yes, we have, just as we have this one.

Merry Christmas. Many better things to do tonight than rehash old garbage.

[retyred]

23. Isn't this rerun season?

My kids tell me all thats on is reruns, is this what they meant? If so I'll have to do a search and rerun all my replies from the first 3 or 4 times this was posted.



retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[catherineD]

24. I feel like if you really wanted to know you'd do a google search

and learn a little more about it. A few months ago there were a lot of quotes about Clark as the "perfumed prince," but then the author of that statement read his book and interviewed him and completely changed his mind, concluding that the people who were bad-mouthing him had a political agenda (i.e., were Bush supporters). There were several articles in Counterpunch that wanted to blame Clark for Waco or for supposedly threatening to start WWIII. The gist seemed to be that because Clark's unit had been ordered to have some discussions with the entirely different outfit handling Waco, Clark was responsible for Waco. In Kosovo, Clark wanted to avert genocide of, I believe it was, 1.5 million Albanians. Earlier in his career, he had been 1 week working at the White House when the Rwanda genocide began to happen, and he argued for our intervening there and we didn't. So genocide did occur there.

I haven't heard the bit about South America, but given your other info, it is unlikely to be credible. I don't know about his dealings with Feith, but you should know that it is unusual for a 4-star general to retire from the military and become a CNN commentator, as most get really sweet deals within the military industrial complex. If you've got a legitimate complaint about Clark, that's fine, but do your research please.

[robbedvoter]

25. Let's ask the PNAC-ers:

CLARK EMERGING AS AN OPPONENT OF REAGANISM

http://daily.nysun.com/Repository/getFiles.asp?Style=OliveXLib:ArticleToMail&Type=text/html&Path=NYS/2003/10/02&ID=Ar00100
Candidate Derides Committee That Crafted Cold War Victory


By IRA STOLL Staff Reporter of the Sun
    General Wesley Clark, the late entry into the race for the Democratic nomination for president, is making what critics called a “bizarre,” “crackpot” attack on a small Washington policy organization and on a citizens group that helped America win the Cold War.
    In a Tuesday interview with Joshua Micah Marshall posted yesterday on the Web site talkingpointsmemo.com, General Clark gave his evaluation of the Clinton presidency. He said that the Clinton administration,“in an odd replay of the Carter administration, found itself chained to the Iraqi policy — promoted by the Project for a New American Century — much the same way that in the Carter administration some of the same people formed the Committee on the Present Danger which cut out from the Carter administration the ability to move forward on SALT II.

[robbedvoter]

26. Let's ask the Spectator:

> Since the outbreak of Operation Iraqi Freedom, Clark has been on CNN, bemoaning the Pentagon and Gen. Tommy Franks's
> strategy in the opening days of taking down Saddam. And while several other senior retired military men have made
> critical comments about the ongoing fighting -- Ret. Gen. Barry McCaffrey, another former Clinton-era official, has
> been quick to criticize during his stints on MSNBC -- Clark has by far been the most vocal.
> "It just looks really bad that he's knocking the troops and the way we're executing this war," says the DNC staffer.
> "He's taking hits everywhere, on TV, in the newspapers, on talk radio. People are furious at him. We can't fundraise
> off performances like this. The only presidential candidate that would probably want to be seen with him is Howard
> Dean."
> Prior to Clark's "tanking" on CNN, the DNC had Clark pegged for political stardom. He'd visited New Hampshire, and
> had hinted that he was interested in perhaps running for president as a Democrat. Now, the DNC isn't sure what they
> can do with the man who directed Bill Clinton's military machinations in Kosovo.
> http://www.spectator.org/article.asp?art_id=2003_3_27_22_49_18