Kerry attacked Dean before... TomPaine.com (Kerry will not be my leader)

[cthrumatrix]

snip

Kerry also attacked Dean for saying that even Osama Bin Laden deserves a fair trial if he is caught. Why is that so controversial? Even George W. Bush has said that Saddam should receive a fair trial. And, isn't the plan that the al-Qaeda detainees at Guantanamo will be tried by military courts? Wouldn't the same apply to Bin Laden if captured? What is the difference between Bush and Dean on this issue?

We can't be sure who the Democratic standard bearer will be in November, but it may be Dean. If it is Dean, he will face an uphill battle. But the Iraq situation could go very bad by next fall, and if it does, Dean could look attractive to voters. Even then it will be a very close race. The Democratic contenders are crazy to try to wound a man who might turn out to be their party's leader. They clearly want to knock him out of the race; but if they fail, they will only have hurt their own party. You get to be a respected member of a party by agreeing to support its candidate, whoever that turns out to be. If you don't like the candidate you can refuse to vote, or you can resign from the party. But you can't in good conscience make a bid to lead the party while making it clear that some of its other potential leaders are completely unacceptable to you if chosen by the party faithful. Lieberman and Kerry have come close to such bad faith with their own party.


http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9690

They did more than wound...alot of folks kicked in to make sure "the peoples candidate" will never be treated fairly.

Thanks Kerry, Gephardt , Liberman ....DNC'ers should be proud.

[molly]

1. The people's candidate is the one they elect

[NashVegas]

10. Who's Candidate Was George W. Bush?

eh?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. The Supreme Court's? The people voted for Gore.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

2. In November there will be one alternative to Kerry

[Walt Starr]

5. Maybe on your ballot

IIRC, there were a lot of alternatives to both Bush and Gore on my ballot in 2000.

[library_max]

22. I think Feanor may have meant "viable alternatives."

You know, candidates with an actual chance of getting elected. Of which there were exactly two: Bush and Gore.

Candidates with last names beginning with "D" who ran for president over the last 100 years:

Thomas Dewey - '48
Michael Dukakis - '88
Bob Dole - '96

People who think this matters or means anything: ?

[gWbush is Mabus]

14. SO....Kerry is for UNFAIR trials? fits in with his support of the PA

[sangh0]

3. "The Democratic contenders are crazy...

"The Democratic contenders are crazy to try to wound a man who might turn out to be their party's leader"

but you're not?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. Sad but true

and I think Dean looked a little dumb saying in one breath Osama deserved a fair trial and in the next that he should be executed.
I forget the exact order but it was pretty weird.

[Ravy]

20. There is no inconsistency here....

saying that everyone, even OBL, deserves a fair trial is one thing. It happens to be one thing I agree with.

Saying that you think he is guilty and should be executed is entirely another thing. I also agree with that.

I don't see the disconnect. I think everyone deserves a fair trial. The fact that I have looked at enough evidence in this case and have made up my mind as to his guilt and what punishment I would like to see, should disqualify me from sitting on OBL's jury. It should never preclude me from expressing my opinion.

Ravy

[CWebster]

4. Something you won't read in the NYTimes. nt

[ShaneGR]

6. I think there is a disconnect between some Dean peeps and the voters

Instead of bringing us all together, it became all about "them" or "those" or those "cockroaches" instead of about Bush. If Dean would have stuck with what got him to the show (Going after Bush) he would have been fine. Instead, he got busy making enemies.

[sangh0]

7. Boom!

There it is!

[Catholic Sensation]

9. I believe Kerry asked Dean at a debate

what he was thinking when he said he didn't prejudge Osama bin Laden's guilt. Which is kind of a funny story, because Dean later said Osama is deserving of the death penalty.

[blm]

11. Can you explain your SELECTIVE OUTRAGE please, crthrumatrix?????

First phone attack

Straight-talking Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean is testing his attack message in Iowa. Political operatives say Dean's phone polling is probing for weaknesses in support for Sens. John Edwards and John Kerry and Rep. Dick Gephardt. For rookie pol Edwards, it's about experience. For Gephardt, it's his alliance with Bush on key issues. Questions about Kerry test Iowans' reaction to his vote backing the war in Iraq."

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/archive/030512/12whisplead.php

From a USA Today, 4/29-29/03
Campaigns spar over remarks about military
By Jill Lawrence, USA TODAY

(full text at: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-04-28-dem-words_x.htm)

WASHINGTON — The only Democratic presidential candidate to regularly whack his rivals got a taste of his own tactics Monday and didn't like it...

...Until now, the competition has been relatively harmonious, at least for public consumption, with the exception of Dean. His attacks on fellow Democrats have been so cutting that sometimes the Republican National Committee e-mails them to party members. "Gephardt Plan: 'Pie-In-The-Sky Radical Revamping' " was the headline on one last week, quoting Dean.

Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina and Rep. Richard Gephardt of Missouri have been Dean targets in recent weeks. But Dean has reserved his sharpest thrusts for Kerry, repeatedly accusing him of selling out Democratic principles. The two men are virtually tied for the lead in polls in New Hampshire, which holds the critically important first primary election...

... Dean's remarks underscore his off-the-cuff style. In March, he accused Edwards and Kerry of softening their support for the Iraq war when they spoke to a dovish California crowd. But in reality, both had referred to their support and gotten booed. Edwards was furious and received an apology from Dean. Kerry said he deserved one but didn't get it.

After Gephardt proposed last week to roll back President Bush's tax cuts to pay for a major expansion of health coverage, Dean blasted him for wanting to repeal "huge tax cuts" he said Gephardt had supported. But Gephardt led the fight against the tax cuts passed in 2001.

The Gephardt campaign called Dean's release "factually incorrect." Thursday night, when both men were in Houston to address a black mayors group, Dean knocked on Gephardt's door. "I'm not going to go into what they said, but the governor did not apologize," Dean aide Kate O'Connor said.

***************************

[emulatorloo]

12. About 30% of Dean's campaign was "attacks" on other Dems from early on

and I saw it w my own eyes.

Howard Dean is a good candidate and his campaign is far from over. His speech after NH was beautiful, a knockout. But he has "attacked" too and plenty.

[cthrumatrix]

15. If you call thier voting records attack...your argument is weak.

[emulatorloo]

18. No that's not my argument

but I think it is naive to say that only Dean has been "attacked." He attacked, and as I made my mind up who to caucus for, I found the attacks he made were simplistic and divisive.

I will say it again, I think he is a great person, for a long time he was my number one or two. He can still get the nomination. I can see the NH speech as a turning point for him. If he gets the nom I will be out there on the streets for him, talking to people and trying to get them out to vote for him.

[Jerseycoa]

16. Dean has attacked everybody all along

Sorry, he's been running as negative a campaign as anyone else.

[cthrumatrix]

17. share with me the attacks - he pointed out their voting records ...

where are the "baseless attacks"?

thank you

[ThirdWheelLegend]

19. Using that logic... Dean will not be my leader..

Dean didn't attack, just flat out LIED about Kucinich and other's anti-war stances.

Not once but at least twice and not just in statement, but in OFFICIAL deanforamerica TV ads and flyers.

So using your logic, Dean will not be my leader.


TWL

[John_H]

21. What? Potitical opponets attacking one another? Egaaaad, man.

So does that mean when Dean tries to kick the shit out of Kerry and probably clark tonight, you'll no longer support him?