Anyone else have this dilemma? Kerry or Clark ??

[kentuck]

I am presently torn as to whom I should support for the nomination? I have been a fan of John Kerry's since we both returned from Viet Nam. I supported John Kerry when he started the Viet Vets Against the War. I have always thought he was an idealistic and true American. I've never doubted that he is on our side. I still believe that.

However, I listen to Wes Clark speak and I hear a Democrat that can unite our Party and restore our Party to the stature this country needs. He does not hesitate to express his liberal beliefs. He is not ashamed to talk about the flag, faith, or family values. But he does it in a way that does not exclude anyone, unlike the Repubs. He plainly states that it is the Democratic Party that is the Party of family values and he is believable when he says it.

I think either of them can beat George W Bush but what will our Party resemble once they are in office? I think it will more or less stay the same with John Kerry because he is part of the establishment that accepts a status quo that is detrimental to the Democratic Party and our nation, in the long run. But I think our Party has an opportunity to change and grow and challenge the right wing with a more powerful message if Wes Clark is the nominee. Does anyone else look at this race from this perspective?

[JohnKleeb]

1. No but I know of others who do

Ive never had the dilema myself. Hope you make a good decision that you feel is right for yourself Kentuck. I would advise you to choose Kerry but then again I am biased.

[ewagner]

2. I did and finally made a choice

I went with Clark because of one of your stated reasons. He can bring the so-called "Reagan Democrats" home where they belong and bring disallusioned Republicans into the camp for the '04 election.

It was tough.

[Ivote]

3. No dilemma here

at all

[incapsulated]

4. Fortunately, no...

Clark is my #1 and Kerry is my #2.

:)

They are both good men. Go with your gut.

(then choose Clark, heh)

[TheDebbieDee]

5. I had no problems.........

making a decision :^)

[NV1962]

6. Nope

For me personally, it's about supporting an experienced, committed, honest outsider - a decent upstanding guy who can shake up "politics as usual" with a set of values, principles and campaign pledges that I wholeheartedly support.

[PA-DEM]

7. Oh yes

A year ago I was fully behind Kerry, until I heard Clark may run. Once he got in I was for Clark and still am. But I really like Kerry too. So I will just sit back and watch what shakes out. i also like things about Edwards. I think we are lucky to have so many fine candidates. I have never seen as much quality in my lifetime. this is nothing you would ever be able to do in the GOP side.

[madmax]

8. Same here

Although I'm not a vet. I was a Kerry supporter until the Draft Clark movement. I listened and liked Clark so I decided to support him. Mostly because of the reason you stated regarding Clark's ability to unite the party and bring those moderate Republicans around to our side.

Reminds of that song, Did you ever have to make up your mind, say yes to one and let the other one ride...

Good luck with your decision. :)

[waldenx]

9. it doesn't matter

flip a coin.
Niether are going to change things.

[incapsulated]

10. You're right

Let's all vote for Bush instead.

[KittyWampus]

11. Clark Has Named The PNAC and Neo-Con Agenda. Kerry Has Not.

Clark testified to Congress against attacking Iraq... they were not an imminent threat.

Sorry, but Kerry's voting against Gulf War 1 when Iraq was IN Kuwait... and his signing the IWR when there was NO imminent threat says rather a lot about him, IMO.

Which candidate do YOU think is more likely to DO THE RIGHT thing?

Which do you think will DO THE POLITICALLY EXPEDIENT THING?

[Myra]

12. No. :) I'm long past the dilemma, and am utterly convinced Clark is it.

He's got integrity, an amazing intellect, compassion, *charisma*,
a dynamic style, passion, a presidential demeanor befitting the
leader he is, fabulous looks, a modest background showing he
worked damn hard for his success, an astounding resume, both
scholarly and military achievements, an amazing humanitarian record,
a deep respect for and concern for the issues of African Americans and
other oppressed groups, and the most progressive platform of any
candidate aside from Kucinich.

I think he's the best presidential candidate I've ever seen.
As you say, he's unapologetic about his progressive beliefs and
agenda. He's got guts, backbone. He's got what it takes.

He's not a professional pol. That's part of his appeal; he's
not a shape shifting salesman. But he's damn brilliant, and he's
learning the essential style lessons while not compromising on
substance.

I'm glad you're considering Clark. I hope you'll look at him more
closely.

[madmax]

18. Great endorsement, Myra.

I'm glad you're on our team ;)

[meti57b]

13. I'm solidly behind Clark, but am very open to Kerry if ......

he becomes the stronger candidate.

[eileen_d]

14. My dilemma is similar

Kerry was my first choice when I started paying attention to the race. He just seemed to have the whole package - liberal record on domestic issues, solid foreign policy experience (with some notable errors), and just an articulate, likeable guy.

However, once Clark entered, I was hooked pretty quickly, especially since Kerry's campaign seemed to have stalled. And, like you, I think Clark does bring something unique and inspiring to the race that Kerry doesn't quite match.

I hadn't been paying attention to the race for a couple of weeks -- suddenly it's "comeback Kerry" and I'm feeling torn again. Clark's relative lack of political experience has always bothered me, but not enough to discount him as a candidate -- except when he's matched up with Kerry.

Now I'm just rambling, but I wanted to let you know I see things the way you do. The Clark/Edwards combination really intrigues me as well. I guess I'll just have to keep mulling it over...

[kentuck]

15. I think it is the Viet Vets Against the War connection that makes it so..

difficult to choose? But Wes Clark was Viet Vet also, but he would never have been in John Kerry's group against the war, I don't think. So it is the Viet Nam war experience that creates the dilemma...

[Qutzupalotl]

25. Ah, now I understand your dilemma.

Personally, I think Clark has really seen the light. But I know on this you'll have to go with your gut. You are taking a principled stand, and I certainly respect you for it.

I've never served, and never voted for anyone with a strong military background. But it's like they say, it takes someone who's seen combat to understand why force should only be used as the very last resort. (Which speaks volumes about the chickenhawks running things now.)

The thing that tipped the scales for me is the beer buddy factor. I'm afraid lots of people still see Bush as the one they'd prefer to have a beer with.

Anyhow, good luck making your decision. Kerry is a good man. They're all good this time around.

[kentuck]

26. I understand that people do change...

Perhaps if the Viet Nam War was being fought today, Kerry would support it and Clark would be against it?? But, thanks!

[cmd]

16. It's my dilemma, too, Kentuck

My heart belongs to Dennis, but I don't think he would appeal to the majority of America. I started off a Kerry supporter. When he lost steam, I switched to Clark. Now that Kerry has his act together, I have a problem.

I do think that Clark could bring a lot of middle roaders back our way. It would be great to be a majority party again. Let's hope they team up and kick the pretenders out once and for all.

[KC21304]

17. No, been Kerry supporter since 2002, but when Clark

appeared on the scene, I knew that Kerry/Clark could wipe up the floor with Bush.

ABB

[Old and In the Way]

19. Had to go with Kerry

When Kerry was polling poorly few months ago, I was fully prepared to support Clark. But Kerry's amazing surge and the fact that he has solid Democratic credentials sealed it for me.

That said, I'd really like to see a Kerry/Clark ticket. We're going to need two strong leaders with integrity and leadership to repair our international image and address major reform in our military budget (and purge the neocon imperialists that have infected the Pentagon).

[bobbieinok]

20. was first for Kerry because of VN Vets against the war

and the fact that he has been a GOOD DEMOCRATIC PROGRESSIVE senator working for us for years.

BUT all the things I like and admire about him will be constantly and viciously used against him 24/7 by TV and talk show radio. When lies are repeated constantly, they do have an effect.

I don't think Kerry can win in the southand probably in the west.

I heard Clark in person here in Tulsa, and he's the one I'm going with.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. So was I until he sold out.

Clark's my second choice if Dean doesn't get it. Kerry won't get my vote.

[Leilani]

21. That's exactly why I'm supporting Clark

We not only need a change in the WH, we nedd change throughout the entire gov. Since Clark owes nobody, except the people, I feel he could bring about change. He showed in Kosovo that he will buck the system to do what is right.

Kerry is a good man, but he is part of the system I want changed. You can see all the pols jumping on board his campaign train. Also, I do not see Kerry appealing to voters in South that would go for Clark.

We need to enlarge our party, if we ever hope to get back Congress. Writing off the South will not do that. We need Reagan Dems to come home, & we need people who have been voting Repuke, but will vote for a General, but not a "Massachusetts Liberal."

[returnable]

24. "Writing off the South will not do that."

I think a key point about Kerry, Clark and the south is that while, yeah, Bush will probably carry the south no matter who the Dems run, the fact is Clark can at least COMPETE in the south.

Which means Bush and the Republicans will have to spend money in Southern states like Arkansas and Tennessee that they'd probably rather spend on swing states like Pennsylvania and Ohio.

[abburdlen]

22. Clark

But if Kerry gets the nom, I certainly won't lose sleep

[mikehiggins]

23. No, no problem at all choosing Clark over Kerry

Many of us in the Clark group are here because we looked at all the candidates (back when there were nine including Graham) and were a little concerned (I was horrified) over our chances to beat Bush in 2004.

I hunted around and found the Draft Clark campaign, signed up, bought a hat, sent in a pledge. I have yet to find a justification for switching to anyone else, let alone Kerry.

Kerry is the most Senatorial Senator in office, in the classical Roman mode. He is a wealthy aristocrat participating in a government owned by his class and working for his benefit. He has some concern for the common man but he is stiff, aloof and cold. Rich.

And, IMHO, he hasn't a chance to win in November.

I have had that opinion all along so I never had a problem with making a choice between Kerry and Clark. It was a little hard to get my mind around the idea of working for a four-star general but I doubt he can or would do anymore harm than Bush, and I believe that he CAN beat Bush, which seems much more problematical with any of the other candidates.

Again. No problem.

Clark in 2004!

[bain_sidhe]

27. Nope, no dilemma. Clark is about realignment

The Democratic party is never going to make any *real* progress on *any* of our issues until we realign the country so that people who economically *should* vote Democratic, actually DO vote Democratic. This may or may not be the election that does that. It hinges on whether Clark is the nominee, IMHO, so I'm with Clark all the way, unless he steps out. If he does, I'll let the rest of the Democratic party decide who the nominee will be, and support that nominee in the general election. But I won't specifically support any other candidate in the primaries. Except possibly Dean, if his candidacy survives this latest hoohaa. It's *possible* Dean could at least *start* the realignment, but I don't think that's his strategy.

[Toucano]

28. I don't share your delimma

because I think Clark is clearly the best thing to happen to the Democratic party in years.

I believe Kerry is a good man, and I will vote for him if he's nominated, but a new broom sweeps clean. Clark is a new broom!

I also appreciate your thoughtful consideration of the choice you have to make.

[hilzoy]

29. I don't share your dilemma either

and a lot of it is because I'm from Massachusetts, and have followed John Kerry for decades, and he's always been a pretty undistinguished Senator. (And most people who know him do not like him at all, for what it's worth. And his staff is disorganized and unresponsive.) I would check out his legislative record, in your position, and read the quite fair seven part series on him in the Boston Globe (starts here: http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061503.shtml ) . I'd also consider the huge difference between legislative and executive experience. Clark spent 34 years in an organization in which they train you to make decisions and get them right. They have to: if you screw up, people die. They also train you in accountability, for the same reason. Legislators, by contrast, are sometimes held accountable if the policies they vote for turn out to be unpopular, but almost never if those policies are stupidly written and impossible to implement, or politically popular but fundamentally misguided, etc. They just have to vote; other people do the work of actually implementing the policies they vote for.

[OKNancy]

30. I used to be for Kerry

but the IWR was a problem.....and also I still really really believe that he can't win. Maybe because I leive in a red state, and I see things differently than some others that are lucky enough to live in more liberal climes, but Kerry has the same problem that Dean has: They can not beat Bush.
-----
I wrote just a few minutes ago in another post that I picked Clark because I thought he could beat Bush, but then, what did I get...a true liberal and an outstanding person who will be the President that I have always dreamed of. Clark is the one who really believes, "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". Clark carries the mantle of JFK more than any other man in this race.

[sandnsea]

32. I want someone who fought Reagan

Sorry, it matters to me. Reagan ruined this country and I want someone who knew it then and knows it now.

[Toucano]

33. I know that matters to you.

I mourn for the generation who lost opportunity under the Reagan administration.

I think it may be a mistake, however, to still be fighting a battle from 16 or 23 years ago. It's done. We have to look to the future.

Does it bother you at all the Sen. Kerry's wife was a republican until 2003? I realize we aren't electing the candidate's wife, but Teresa actually said she wished she didn't have to change her registration to Democrat to vote for her husband.

http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/05/07/wpres07.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/05/07/ixworld.html

"Campaign aides hate it when she looks bored or tired during his speeches, she adds. "They think I should always be looking adoringly at him." She described how she reluctantly changed her voter registration to Democrat this year, after more than 30 years as a Republican. "I'd rather just be Independent, but then I couldn't vote for my husband, John," she explained."

I am not attacking Teresa. I'm simply pointing out how politics make strange bedfellows. Each candidate has had to work with Republicans.

If you can accept John Kerry rolling over for the Republicans in the Senate a time or two, I think it would be fair to forgive Clark for voting for them a time or two also.

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. No,

Kerry has never been one of my choice candidates.

[copithorne]

35. It actually sounds like you've made your decision

Sounds like you're ready to support Clark.

Please do! We need your help! Wesley Clark is a gift to the Democratic Party and if we can accept the gift we will change politics in this country more than anyone thought possible.

Besides, Kerry will have a hard time beating George Bush.