Kerry is calling for Tenet's resignation?!

[janx]

What the heck is going on?

Blitzer just reported that Kerry's currently calling for Tenet's resignation!

[Skidmore]

1. Did he call for Bush's resignation as well

????

[Benhurst]

3. No. It's impossible to resign from an elective office to which

you were not elected.

[janx]

8. self delete

I misunderstood--sorry.

[janx]

6. I can't believe this.

.

[girl gone mad]

2. Letting Bush off the hook..

already?

I'll wait for confirmation.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

4. Just heard it on CNN.... unbelievable

n/t

[sangh0]

7. So your candidate called on Bush to resign?

Got a link for that?

BTW, Kerry has called for regime change here in the US

[girl gone mad]

34. The problem is..

placing blame on Tenet ignores Bush's complicitywith Office of Special Plans, etc. It's an easy out for the administration.. the one they are ready and willing to take.

[sangh0]

40. Wrong

The way you get the man in charge is by going after those below him and getting them to flip

It's an easy out for the administration

No it's not. If they fire Tenet, then it's an admission that they were wrong for keeping him on. In fact, Bush* himself has defended Tenet for these mistakes, and so if he now fires him, it will look like Bush* is afraid of Kerry.

on edit: And you didn't answer my question - Has your candidate called on Bush* to resign? (It's a very simple question)

[janx]

11. That would be wise--so am I. But Wolfie said it not once

but twice.

[cthrumatrix]

5. link..?

[janx]

12. Nothing yet. I typed it right after I heard the words out of

Wolfie's mouth. We'll have to wait for a bit, I suppose.

I'm really amazed at this and can't believe what I just heard.

[0007]

9. Kerry is two and a half years late for that one.

But I guess better late than never!

[cthrumatrix]

10. Tenet has to take the fall for Bush....this isn't far fetched at all

[janx]

14. But ... after all the CIA has been through, why would Kerry

do this?

[drfemoe]

94. xactly .. do you think Tenet snitched his own agent?

hmmmm?

[aquart]

97. But isn't it skeevy that Kerry is the one giving Bush his out?

Of course, this also protects Kerry. His vote for the war was based on what he believed to be impeccable intelligence. He was cruelly deceived. A victim, as it were.

Yes! It's Tenet's fault! That's the ticket!

[maryallen]

110. Tenet's ALREADY fallen on his sword ONCE.

How many times does the man have to prostrate himself?

[a_random_joel]

13. Hold the phone...

We need to see this in its context before we all jump the gun.

Besides, this might be a good thing.
*Wild Speculation* This might be a cover for Tenet so he can provide more info as he "fights for his career."

Wait and see.

[rucky]

16. didn't think of that...but

Between Joseph Wilson & Rand Beers' connections to Kerry, do they really need to squeeze Tenet?

[janx]

21. Wilson's problem isn't with Tenet--at least I don't think so.

That's not even logical.

[rucky]

38. Doesn't make sense to me either

that's why I pointed it out. Wilson & Beers are in the equation somehow, tho.

[Jawja]

20. Tenet is being setup

as the fall guy for this. He's already fallen on his sword for this criminal cabal once.

If Kerry has indeed called for his resignation, it is also hilighting the fact that NOBODY has been fired for any of the "intelligence failures" leading to Sept. 11 and now to the war crimes by Mr. Bush.

Pointing fingers at the CIA in the climate that has been created between the CIA and the criminals in power could be a very shrewd move on the part of Kerry.

But let's see.

[sangh0]

28. That's how prosecutors like Kerry work

They snag someone lower down on the food chain, and flip them.

[janx]

33. Shrewd in what sense--to defend his IWR vote?

?
Edit: Because that wouldn't be shrewd. It would be transparent.

[displacedtexan]

15. Consider the logic.

Kay says intel was bad and everyone was fooled.
JK says, 'Well, I guess the head intel guy has to go then.'

Now, what does the freak monkey do?
Fire Tenet or admit it wasn't Tenet's fault?

If * fires Tenet, will Tenet go quietly?

Wouldn't you like to find out?
I would.


Bush* is a checkers player in a chess world!

[janx]

17. I dunno--after all the CIA has been through?

After Plame and everything?

[Jawja]

24. ESPECIALLY

after Plame and everything. Let's see Tenet eat his sword for Bush again. Let's see the CIA get blamed yet again for the lies of Bush, Cheney, Rice and Powell.

[janx]

36. Isn't Kerry supposed to be a Democrat who knows the

folly and disaster of this war?

[sangh0]

18. Also

Kerry is positioning himself for the GOP attacks concerning his votes to cut funds to the CIA.

[janx]

31. That makes more sense than anything offered so far.

I don't agree with it, but it might explain things. sangh0, I don't think this is a very wise thing for Kerry to do.

[sangh0]

42. What makes you say it's unwise?

.

[janx]

51. Well--just think.

Why would Kerry want to do such a thing?

Contrast that with why Kerry might be perceived as wanting to do such a thing...

[sangh0]

54. I can think of a dozen reasons why

1) The RNC head Gillespie just criticized Kerry for voting to cut funds to the CIA, and Kerry is responding by emphasizing the poor job Tenet has done

2) He's going after Bush* by trying to "flip" one of Bush*'s minions. This is what prosecutors do all the time, and Kerry was a prosecutor.

3) Kerry has a lot of support in the intelligence community. Rand Beers, Joe Wilson, etc. He knows intel, and he knows what he's doing.

I could go on, but it's just speculation at this point. I wouldn't assume that the only motivation is politics

[girl gone mad]

27. I think..

Tenet will go quietly and Kerry will have played his hand.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

19. Here's an article...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58511-2004Jan28.html

A couple of days ago, on his campaign bus, I asked him what he thought of Kay's statements and whether he thought the U.S. intelligence community -- particularly the CIA -- needed to account for findings that supported the Bush administration's insistence that Iraq represented an imminent threat to world peace. With a startling intensity, he said yes. Among other things, he feels that CIA Director George Tenet has to go.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

23. Great! nt

[janx]

37. Great?

:wow:

What is this guy, some kind of PNAC enabler?

[sangh0]

Huh?

How does trying to get a PNACer fired make Kerry a "PNAC enabler"?

Please don't tell me "Because it lets Bush* off the hook" because I don't see anything that indicates Kerry is letting Bush* off the hook.

[sangh0]

56. Huh?

How does trying to get a PNACer fired make Kerry a "PNAC enabler"?

Please don't tell me "Because it lets Bush* off the hook" because I don't see anything that indicates Kerry is letting Bush* off the hook.

[Sterling]

74. He is covering for his frat brother.

Is it not obvious? That is what he has always done.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. Fine but he REALLY needs to spotlight BU$H on this

[janx]

41. By calling for Tenet's resignation, he's effectively

doing the opposite.

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. I'm concerned about that too

It lends credence to the Kay remarks that it's the intel community who owes the pResident an apology, not the pResident who owes the American people.

Even so, i do still question the tenet-atta connection.

[sangh0]

60. Can you explain yourself?

Can you back up your opinions with some facts. You say that "he's effectively" not going after Bush*, but you give no reasons why Kerry couldn't go after Tenet, and Bush*

[janx]

68. He's setting the stage to blame his IWR vote on bad intel.

It's obvious.

[sangh0]

77. That makes no sense

Kerry gave a speech in 1998 stating his belief that Saddam had WMD's. Kerry has not said that Bush* misled him on the presence of WMD's in Iraq, so he won't be blaming his IWR vote (which he continues to defend) on Bush*, or anyone else.

He will blame Bush* for lying about going to the UN and about giving the UN inspecters enough time to do their work. But going after Tenet doesn't help him with any of that (unless he flips Tenet)

IOW, the only obvious thing here is that you don't seem to know what Kerry has said about Iraq, WMD's, Bush*'s lies, or the intelligence community. Nice work.

[GreenPartyVoter]

92. Sure, but there's only one fact I can give you

I am not saying he can't _try_. I am saying that after Kay came out and said Kerry's charging after Tenet seems to confirm what Kay said. (that is your fact. kay said this.)

""My summary view, based on what I've seen, is that we're very unlikely to find large stockpiles of weapons," he said. "I don't think they exist."

President Bush used Saddam Hussein's refusal to verify disarmament - as demanded by the United Nations - to justify his decision to go to war. But after months of searches that have turned up evidence of weapons programs - but no actual weapons - David Kay tells National Public Radio the U.S. intelligence community owes the White House an apology.

"You have to remember that this view of Iraq was held during the Clinton administration and didn't change in the Bush administration," he said. "It is not a political 'gotcha' issue. It is a serious issue of how you could come to the conclusion that is not matched by the future.""

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=4365A28F-B71E-4373-A47C2E7E572D3D8A

This part is conjecture. I can't prove it any more than you can "prove" who is going to win the election and by how many votes. This is simply my estimation of the situation and how I see that it can possibly play out to Kerry's detriment.

All I want is for Kerry to go great guns after Bu$h too, and SOON. He ought not to wait too long because otherwise it's going to look like he believes what Kay does, that it's the intel community's fault and not Bu$h's.

[sangh0]

96. Actually, you have more than one fact

"You have to remember that this view of Iraq was held during the Clinton administration and didn't change in the Bush administration," he said. "It is not a political 'gotcha' issue. It is a serious issue of how you could come to the conclusion that is not matched by the future.""

It *IS* true that the this view of Iraq (having WMD's) *WAS* the view under Clinton and didn't change under Bush*. What Kay is saying here VERY IMPORTANT. The "cooked intelligence" involves Saddam/Al Queda connections, and not WMD's. All of the false WMD info came sources other than the CIA.

Going after Tenet is not a way of scapegoating Tenet for Bush*'s lies, because Bush*'s lies involves issues besides WMD's.

[GreenPartyVoter]

98. True

When the candidates take the war issue to the people they will have to be very specific about who did what and how it was wrong.

Otherwise folks will blow it all off as a loony conspiracy theory.

[seaglass]

26. Didn't Tenet cover Bush's ass on how the 16 words

got into the SOTU?

[janx]

44. No. n/t

[seaglass]

69. yeah he did, i just found it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A48847-2003Jul12?language=printer

...It is unclear why Tenet failed to intervene in January to prevent the questionable intelligence from appearing in the president's address to Congress when Tenet had intervened three months earlier in a much less symbolic speech. That failure may underlie his action Friday in taking responsibility for not stepping in again to question the reference. "I am responsible for the approval process in my agency," he said in Friday's statement.

[janx]

72. The intel Chimpy used was cherry picked. Remember

Cheney's involvement?

[seaglass]

76. I'm telling you that Tenet took responsibility for Bush

- therefore he deflected responsibility from Bush and it died.

[sangh0]

78. You are both wrong

The cooked intelligence didn't involve WMD's. It concerned the Al Queda connections.

[seaglass]

89. This was about the uranium, I don't understand what you

are trying to say.

[sangh0]

91. The Niger uranium scam was not CIA

Cheney tried to confirm it through Wilson, not the CIA. The CIA was not the source of this story, nor did they corroborate it.

The CIA believed that Iraq had WMD's long before Bush* even took office, so there was no need for Bush* to pressure them into agreeing that Iraq had WMD's. The pressure was to find connections between Saddam and Al Queda

[seaglass]

105. Well - Cheney to CIA to Wilson. But in any case

I'm not saying the CIA gave the info about the uranium, I'm saying that Tenet took responsibility for that information being in the SOTU. As CIA Director he vetted intelligence info that went into Bush speeches. While Tenet had said it needed to be removed in the Oct. speech, he supposedly did not say it should be removed from the SOTU. The story was who ok'd it for the SOTU and Tenet took the fall.

I must not be stating this clearly.

[sangh0]

106. You should re-read what Tenet said

He never took responsibility for any mistakes or errors or anything else. He merely made a generic "The buck stops here" without pointing out which "buck" he was responsible for. IOW, he never said "My bad"

The story was who ok'd it for the SOTU and Tenet took the fall.

Tenet didn't take responsibility for the SOTU error. He merely made a generic "I'm responsible for vetting" statement. He never said "I vetted that specific statement"

[janx]

80. Tenet did not take responsibility for Bush. Sorry.

Reread the transcript.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

29. After Clark and Dean have gone out on a limb for months - Kerry plays

it safe AGAIN...

[blm]

32. Kerry called for an independent counsel for Iraq intel last July.

.

[janx]

45. But it's to such an extent as to appear (at least to me)

suicidal in context!

I still can't believe it.

[sangh0]

67. Make up your mind!

In some posts, you say this will help Kerry defend himself against GOP attacks on his IWR vote, which sounds like it's good for Kerry.

In this post, you contradict yourself and call it suicidal("in context" whatever that means)

[Myra]

85. Kerry reverts to form. If he won't be critical of the BFEE, what is his

reason to run? More of the same?
He's clearly not the agent of change.
He's excusing everything Bush does: going AWOL, starting a war
based on lies...

[blm]

30. Kerry has intel good guys lined up with him. I think he's trying to divide

White House and CIA loyalists.

He already called for an independent counsel on Iraq intel. Let's see what Kerry and his team have planned.

Bear in mind that Joe Wilson is part of Kerry's team.

[NNN0LHI]

35. Tenet's been covering for the Chimp since 9/11. The fucker should go! n/t

[Feanorcurufinwe]

39. Does anyone here think George Tenet has done a good job?

If not, why are you defending the idea that he should stay on as CIA director?

[MoonRiver]

43. Could be a good ploy.

Tenet probably cut a deal with bu*hco that he would pretend the evidence for an Iraq invasion was legit (or at least not directly contradict it) if they didn't try to pin the false intel on him later. Question is will Tenet take the rap for * after being stabbed in the back.

[sangh0]

48. And once Tenet is gone

the CIA employees, many of whom support Kerry, will start leaking Tenet's crimes

[David Zephyr]

47. Blame the Intelligence Provider, Not the Manipulator of It.

I thought that John Kerry has said that "Bush misled me". Now, he's joining with the Republicans and blaming the Intelligence itself.

Oh, well.

[MoonRiver]

53. Maybe we all need to re-read Hamlet again.

I'm being serious here.

[janx]

79. I take you seriously. And I agree. n/t

[janx]

55. It looks as if he wants to kick.

Tenet out to defend his IWR vote.

[sangh0]

58. What make syou say that?

Could you please explain yourself? I see nothing about a defense of his IWR vote in there.

[janx]

59. See post #49. n/t

[sangh0]

63. Are you kidding?

Post #49 isn't an explanation. It's a question

[Myra]

49. So he's helping the BFEE scapegoat the CIA.

Is that about it?

[janx]

57. YES! Because of his IWR vote that the RNC is now

criticizing.

This criticism is not going to go away.

[sangh0]

66. How does going after Tenet

protect Kerry from GOP criticism of IWR vote? You keep saying this in this thread, but you have so far failed to explain yourself.

BTW, Kerry had been saying that Iraq had WMD"s since at least 1998, two years before Bush* took office. Kerry has never said that Bush* misled him on the presence of WMD's in Iraq. Kerry said that Bush* misled him on Bush*'s plan to get UN approval, and to give the UN inspecters enough time.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[janx]

61. He is. n/t

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[janx]

82. I wonder what Senator Rockefeller's take on this is... n/t

[kerry-is-my-prez]

62. lol! Tell us how you really feel...

n/t

[kentuck]

52. Otherwise Tenet is gonna sit back and not say anything....

Bring him out of his fucking hole ! Tell us what you know, dammit! Or otherwise, resign.

[janx]

64. Yeah. That would go over so well with the CIA...

:eyes:

[kentuck]

95. I think it's a sideswipe at Bush....

It's like going in the back door to drag out the gangsters. We shouldn't be short-sighted.

[isbister]

65. Get rid of bush's

cover. The sooner the better.

If Tenet's gone who will bush have left to scapegoat when the 9/11 commission report comes out?

[copithorne]

70. Goddam him!

I join in the criticism of Kerry for blaming George Tenet.

That is outrageous. It sells me out as an opponent of the war.

If the Bush Administration wants to blame the CIA, let them make the case. But I HOLD THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND HIS ENABLERS ACCOUNTABLE!! I EXPECT DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO DO THE SAME.

[janx]

75. Exactly, It would be like blaming the military for the Iraq war.

It's ridiculous.

It's the way the intelligence was cherry-picked and used by this administration to make their case for their preemptive, imperial war.

[flpoljunkie]

84. Tenet rolled over for Bushco, sullied CIA; CIA analysts feel betrayed.

They are not going to go quietly into the night and let David Kay let them take the fall for the Bushco administration manipulation of their intelligence work to sell the war in Iraq.

[Nazgul35]

73. I think what is causing such concern here...

is that Kerry, just like anyone who has been paying half attention to how the WH developed their "evidence" for the case for war, should know that the overwhelming bulk of "intellegence" produced for the Bushies was concocted, not in the CIA, or even in the Pentagon, but by partisan intellegence brokers who set up office within Rumsfeld's office and produced evidence that was selected over much more convincing evidence that no such threat existed....

So what Kerry is in fact doing, is enabling the Bush administration's cover story as to what went wrong in Iraq.....the result of which will be House and Senate Committee investigations which will focus on the CIA and Pentagon, and will come no where near the actual perpetrators of the crap evidence offered up...

But I guess, if this is indeed true, this is what we should expect from a candidate who has as much reason to make the voters think he was duped by the traditional intelligence community rather than buying the Bush admin's flimsy evidence that was laughable to anyone who actually saw it....

so...well done, sape goat the CIA, bash them around for a year or two...and while they are keeping their heads down or being cowed, no real work will get done on preventing future attacks on the US....

Yes....I am sooo happy at this turn of events....

:crazy:

[sangh0]

83. Wrong, the Cheney/Rumsfeld intel office

spun up evidence about Saddam/Al Queda ties. The CIA had already been convinced (for many years) that Saddam had WMD's. Kerry gave a speech in 1998 saying we had to take action over Saddam's WMD's, so I doubt this is about the IWR vote.

[Nazgul35]

111. So the Niger yellow cake...

the implications that Iraq was seeking nuclear capabilities, the drone planes, Wilson and Plame....these were all the fault of the CIA?

Hell, Kerry listed four reasons tonight in the debate that were all problems that needed to be laid at the feet of the Bush WH, and not the CIA.....

[ibegurpard]

81. Yet another Kerry straw on my back.

:thumbsdown:

[snippy]

86. I think this is an indirect attack on Bush.

This will add a little fuel to the fire about how the "intelligence" on Iraq could be so wrong. People in the CIA will leak in defense of Tenet and some of the obedient media will publish those leaks. Bush will be the marginal loser the more the public learns about how the intelligence about Iraq was manipulated or just fabricated.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

87. Anybody know that Kay has called for an independent investigation of Iraq?

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/29/1075340786968.html
The former top US weapons inspector in Iraq has called for an independent investigation into misleading US intelligence after testifying before the Senate that there was no evidence that Saddam Hussein possessed chemical, biological or nuclear weapons before the invasion.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

88. Tenet had warned the Administration NOT to go to war. Said it would

make things more dangerous.

[Old and In the Way]

90. Way to go John!

Bush and Tenet are blackmailing each other.....John's putting the pressure back on this administration to either defend Tenet and take away this administrtaion's excuse that the CIA is too blame or deep six Tenet, in which case Tenet is free to tell his side of the story and the new CIA director may not be interested in helping to cover-up the real story about what this administration really knew.

I think John is making a bold move to break-up the co-enabling wall of silence between CIA and this administration.

[aquart]

101. The new CIA director will be another Ridge or Ashcroft.

And will do nothing you or I will like.

[Uzybone]

93. Why is this a problem?

Some heads have to start falling in this corrupt administration. You think Bush is going to resign? You think Bush is going to own up to his crimes? Without any hard evidence (if we had hard evidence that Bush lied then his presidency would be over) calling for Bush to resign is a wast of time.

[Kahuna]

100. Tenet is the only one who is NOT corrupt. As someone else..

on this thread posted, this would be an out for Kerry on his IWR vote. It's just politics as usual.

[sangh0]

103. How is this an out for Kerry on IWR?

Kerry (and the CIA, and Clinton, and Gore) believed that Iraq had WMD's years before Bush* took office.

When Kerry says "Bush* misled me", he is not referring to Iraq's WMD's. He's talking about how Bush* promised to give the UN time to finish it's inspections.

SO how does going after Tenet for WMD's provide cover for Kerry's IWR vote, when Kerry's IWR vote did not depend on disinformation (note: DISinformation, not MISinformation) from the CIA?

[RobinA]

107. Because Tenet

isn't the issue. Who cares about him? He can sail off into the sunset loaded down with blame for the "lousy intelligence" and then the problem is deemed solved.

[Kahuna]

99. I like Tenet. He is the only good guy in the whole bush cabal...

Bad move Kerry. Let Tenet take the fall for bush. That's stupid.

[NNN0LHI]

102. There are no good guys in the CIA n/t

[sangh0]

104. Take another look at Tenet

He's a political animal, and nothing more. That's how he survived the Clinton to Bush* transition. He's the only one. Ever wonder why?

[kentuck]

109. Absolutely! We agree sangh0 !

:)

[atre]

108. Kerry is the quintissential Bush enabler

And to think that a sizeable contingent of people here support that man.