Glad we are winning the battle,

[Savannah Progressive]

If we weren't "Winning" as described in many many threads like this one http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2262588

If we weren't winning, can't you imagine the CIA torturing people? If we weren't showing those Repugniks who was boss we could even see food stamps cut and the poor being told to foot the bill for Iraq.

Wait, we are seeing that. CIA Torture http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1322866&page=1

Food Stamp Cuts http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?id=2005111818110002569401&dt=20051118181100&w=RTR&coview=

So sure, we are winning against the Repugniks. It's just that they seem to be winning since the Legislative and Judicial plan seems to be full steam ahead.

Well, the good news is that we THINK we are winning, because so far it looks to me to be a Pyrrhic Victory. I wonder if we will still think we are winning when the Court overturns Roe, or re-instates Segregation?

[Erika]

1. I can definitely see W seeing Slavery as a states rights issue

Let the states decide.

[melody]

2. No, the good news is we've just begun to win

It'll take some time to move across the country.

The tide has definitely turned -- no matter what the freepers would like to think. Anyone who has been progressive through the last thirty years, realizes how different these days are from the ones we've seen before. This is the time period we'll look back on as the trigger of change.

[chknltl]

3. Exaaaaactly!

The ballance of power IS shifting back to the left.

[Savannah Progressive]

6. I finally figured out what this looks like to me.

In the movie "Kung Pow, enter the fist" there is a charictor who literally doesn't know how to fight. He believes that by being hit, he is winning. After getting punched in the nose he askes "How do you like my face to fist technique?". That is what the Democratic Party looks like from where I am standing. We take a boot to the head, and celebrate like we just scored the goal that puts us ahead.

[melody]

10. here's what it looks like to me

Your post count suggests to me you're a newbie, so this is how this looks to me. Somebody trolling (for their own unknown reasons) can't take it that the Dems are finally kicking ass and taking names, so they come in and try to "coyly" knock them by suggesting all those kicks in the head to the Reptilicans were just love taps and they didn't REALLY do any damage, despite the fact the House practically erupted in commotion I haven't heard arise from that august body in all my years of watching C-Span.

The Democrats have been solidly, time after time, kicking the crap out of the Grand Old Psychopaths for weeks now, but like all bullies and other psychopaths, they have to act like every knock doesn't faze them at all.

[Savannah Progressive]

11. How should I respond?

I honestly am at a loss. Two weeks ago we celebrated Senator Reid's shutting down the Senate via Rule 21. The next week and a half we had the White House reeling in regards to the obviously false intel used to start an Imperialist war in Iraq. The Press was aghast at Representative Murtha's call to drawdown over 6 months, and all eyes were on him, and the Congress.
We had a chance to follow that up. Leaving the Repugniks reeling over the holiday break. We had a chance to communicate to the Nation, and the World with a simple voe, "bring the troops home NOW". Stop the war NOW. It's a position that is popular, and gaining popularity all the time.
Instead, we played a political game, and as I demonstrated, they are already playing that up, even running commercials in Navada against Reid.
Our Party voted for some really bad laws. Bankruptcy reform is one of the worse. Now Corporations can write off the Employee pensions, but Mr. And Mrs. Smith can't write off credit card debt. That isn't a victory, that is a surrender.
We had a chance to sound off against the war, to continue the severe beating of the Chimp, but we hid from that, because of why? That is one thing among many I don't understand.
As for the number of posts, and the time I've been here. Am I supposed to be a bobble head, another DINO (Democrat In Name Only) who drools and ignores the principals that I cherish? When I see something I disagee with, and among other things, that definately includes this unjust and illegial war, I will speak out. If that is a problem, let me know, and I'll go back to the MSN boards where I was posting these same types of messages for years.

[melody]

12. absolutely at a loss here

I don't know what you're expecting - the swords of revolution to come flaming out of the Potomac or something?

>The Press was aghast at Representative Murtha's

No they weren't. Most of what I saw -- even among the more anally retentive pro-corporate mouthpieces -- at least gave lip service to the other side, so much so that all of a sudden President Dipstick is waving a peace flag at us.

Of course we played a political game -- it IS a political game. Things move gradually there. It's not like life on the internet. Of course they're mounting an attack against Reid - they are sociopathic swill. The fact of the matter is this attack force is going to work against them now. The public (as we are the public) is with us. The Democrats will do much better being firm, solid, consistent, but not going for the throat. Rove's natural inclination is leap for a vicious attack. The public isn't buying that crap anymore. Look what happened to Kilgore.

>Our Party voted for some really bad laws.

Some of our Party did, yes. But they aren't the whole party.

>but we hid from that

No we didn't. We came out punching and didn't back down. I honestly don't understand your stance on this at all. It's not what I've experienced in the last few days.

>another DINO

Oh, you'll find DINOs among our primary targets over here. We don't rewrite history however. Maybe you're just young, I don't know. Maybe you're expecting miracles. But I was raised in a Democratic-formed nation so I've seen these gains eroded through all the Reagan years to now. I do not expect miracles.

That said, I consider the last few days to be genuine miracles based upon previous behavior. We have our Party back and they have our backs again. Many of them may be risking their own lives to do it.

[depakid]

4. Reality check

Dems= O

Republicans = 100's.

Just because the Dems make a lot of noise (or Harry Reid pulls some publicity stunt)- doesn't mean that progressives or even moderates (whatever those are) have won ANYTHING.

Fact is- Dems have eventually rolled over on every single nominee sent up- no matter how extreme. They've rolled over on (or more often helped to pass) EVERY single piece of legislation that the far right has put before Congress- most without even a fight.

Their "leadership" allows DINO's like Lieberman and Biden to CONSTANTLY undercut traditional Democratic positions- and allows them (without consequences) to go on the TV "news" and talk shows repeatedly, where they basically legitimize Republican policies.

So tell me- IN THE REAL WORLD- what have we "won?"

Nothing.

Yet.

[Clark2008]

8. We've won some things this week:

The Patriot Act redux got shelved, we brought the issue of how we should withdraw from Iraq up front and we strong-armed, stunt or not, the Republicans into investigating Phase II of the pre-9/11 intelligence.

I call that some wins.

Oh- and one DINO turned progressive this week when he threatened to cross the aisle and beat the living shit out of the mealy-mouthed Republicans for Jean Schmidt's idiotic comments on John Murtha. Harold Ford Jr. probably will have his DLC card yanked if he continues to move to the left (oh, and polling shows he can actually beat every Republican running for Senate in Tennessee).

[chknltl]

5. The march has begun

For months now I have witnessed the candle of hope extinguished in my fellow DUers by the bushco juggernaut. The knowledge that my fellow progressives have been so brutally beaten down saddens me. None here claim that the march out of Valley Forge will be easy, we take cheer that we can see that the march has begun! Fellow Progressive, you may stand alongside the road and voice your doubts, this is your right, or you may join in this march, there is room and you are needed. Either way the battle begins....

[Savannah Progressive]

7. The problem is we are Marching towards the Evangelicals

We are marching, but we are walking towards the Far Right Wing.

This vote on Friday was a microcosm of the continuing trend. We keep trying to set ourselvs up as a moderate extension of the Repugniks, what many here, myself included call Repugnik Lite. We take a hawkish position, just not as hawkish as Bush. We take a conservative position, just not as conservative as Bush. We act like it's a good thing not to be pinned down on ending an illegial, immoral, war begun for lies. Folks, if we aren't opposed to an illegial, immoral, war begun over lies, designed to profit only big oil, what are we for?

We pass John Roberts to the Supreme Court, and say "he was alright, but watch out for the Next Fascist you try and get up here". What? What Fascist is a good fascist? When is Fascisim a good thing to have around? Roberts should have been stopped outright. Instead, we let it go but shook our finger saying "You better not send another one up here".

Sure enough, after the distraction that was the Myers nomination, we get Alito, who is possibly even MORE intolerant, Racist, and we shrug and say "well it's not guaranteed that he will be confirmed, but it's a near certainty".

We vote FOR BANKRUPTCY REFORM because we don't want to be labeled as anti-corporate? :wtf: is that all about? We vote FOR NAFTA and CAFTA in the hopes we don't look like we want to Protect American Workers?

When do we decide to turn around? When do we decide to march towards AMERICA and AMERICANS?

[chknltl]

9. I accept that my support is for those who pick and choose our battles.

My perspective is analogous to General Washington's here. He picked and chose those battles which he felt he could win. He ran away from many battles too. This was not a weakness on his part and you can bet he had his detractors for making those choices. I feel that there are many signs indicating our growing strengths and I believe we will be fully armed and raring to go toe to toe in battle against king george after the '06 elections. To me this is key for redressing a great many wrongs committed by bushco INCLUDING that war.

Do you suppose that bush's falling poll numbers, those indictments against delay and frist and libby and others, the early signs of meltdown within the republican party are all lucky coincidence? Murtha is but one of many snipers in this army for Democracy. How much of his shot would have been wasted had he chose to use it a year ago? Like you I am spoiling for battle but I will trust in my democratic leadership to choose when and where.

I do not see my Democratic Leadership as bush-light...that is a title I hold for sen. mccain. If General Washington's strategy were contrary to yours would you have abandoned him for a nonexistent General? Neither would I and neither will I. If you wish to question my blind trust in our democratic leadership, go right ahead. I feel that they are about to march us off to war in a healthy direction.
With Democracy on the line today every bit as much as it was back in General Washington's time, I choose not to stand aside and complain, I choose instead to lend my support. Like I said, this battle begins with or without our support, I have made my choice.