Dean was establishment candidate, Not Kerry

[kerryistheanswer]

All those who are constantly attacking Kerry for being an insider and part of the establishment seem to have conveniently forgotten about the growing Dean bandwagon that preceded Iowa. You seem to forget that it was Dean who the media loved and predicted would face Bush. It was Dean who the establishment (gore, afscme, seiu, bradley) endorsed. It was Dean who was written up as winning each and every debate even though some of those performances were less than stellar.

Please read E.J. Dionne's piece in today's Washington Post. He hits it right on the nail.
--------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn't just Al Gore, who happened to agree with Dean's position on the Iraq war. Dean also won the support of the Service Employees International Union; the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees; Sen. Tom Harkin of Iowa; New Jersey Gov. Jim McGreevey and former senator Bill Bradley -- and a slew of other elected officials.

To the extent that a Democratic establishment can be plausibly defined, it is made up of the "super delegates" to the Democratic National Convention. They are the holders of elected office and party officials who automatically get to vote on the party's nominee. As of Monday, according to the CBS News/New York Times count, Dean led Kerry among super delegates, 132 to 74. And when Dean shook up his campaign on Wednesday, he turned to a respected establishment figure, Roy Neel, former lobbyist and longtime aide to Gore.

No, Kerry was not brought back by any establishment. He was brought back by rank-and-file Democratic voters in Iowa and New Hampshire. And what's striking is that while Kerry had across-the-board support in Tuesday's primary here, his constituency was decidedly non-elitist compared with Dean'.

Dean and Kerry, according to the network exit polls, split the ballots of those who said they had postgraduate degrees. But Kerry beat Dean by 2 to 1 among voters without college degrees. Kerry won easily over Dean among union members and also among gun owners. Dean carried well-to-do college towns such as Hanover and Keene. But Kerry beat Dean decisively in the blue-collar bastions of Berlin and Manchester. In Berlin, for example, it was Kerry, 1,149, and Dean, 394.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61946-2004Jan29.html

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

1. highly misleading

There are factions in the establishment - Kerry has a big faction of the old line liberal establishment, the one from JFK days, that hasn't had power since then. Dean was originally part of the neo-liberal DLC Clinton/Gore establishment - but there is a split between Clinton/Gore over what to do next, and Dean and Gore have fallen out of favor to some extent.

[Raya]

10. Good Points. But Most of the "Establisment" Backed Dean, Wrote off Kerry

[polpilot]

23. Go to the DLC website and your education will be complete.

Kerry is THE establishment candidate.

Dean '04...The ONLY Hope

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

29. That "establishment" is the middle rank of the Democratic party

Dean did NOT get big corporate executives or heavy hitters. He got the endorsement of the middle of the Democratic establishment - that's too his credit I think.

[Hawkeye-X]

15. Misleading too

Dean is no DLC. Kerry is DLC. Go look him up in the DLC directory. You'll find Kerry but not Dean. Yes, Dean was a old DLC member, but since From took DLC over, he quit.

Hawkeye-X

[sandnsea]

25. DLC is behind Clark

Clinton is behind Clark. Kerry is not a Clinton Democrat. He's his own person. He did this with a good Kennedy campaign team, yes. But mostly he did this with old-fashioned hard work.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

30. Ha! Kerry is the Yale establishment candidate

Kerry has the backing of half of the plutocrats in America - the other half is supporting Bush.

[bigtree]

2. He was brought back by rank-and-file Democratic voters

How 'bout that?

[HuckleB]

3. How many times does this ridiculous claim have to be made?

Please stop trying to fool yourself. Rest assured, you're not fooling anyone else.

[Hep]

4. OMG! This is so funny

Does everyone even know what the term washington insider means? Just curious. I just don't feel like we can have this discussion of we're not on the same page.

[evil_orange_cat]

6. apparantly not... lol

"Washington insider" seems pretty self explanatory... why don't people get this?

[Kolesar]

7. E.J. Dionne hit his thumb with the hammer, not the nail

This reads like someone who had to get an article done by the time the paper went to press.

[WiseMen]

26. Ad Hominen Attack. How excellent!

[Kolesar]

37. EJ Dionne is not a poster on this thread

At least he has not identified himself as such, therefore, your charge is incorrect.

[democratreformed]

5. I'm really beginning to think that all this talk about "establishment"

is an underhanded tactic to cause further division. I have tried to figure out what "the establishment" is and I have failed to come up with anything concrete. It's meaning and existence is so vague that virtually any candidate can be painted to fit on either side. That's just my opinion. Therefore, in my opinion, establishment vs. anti-establishment is a non-issue that is merely distracting some people from the more important issues.

[D G]

8. Definitely

It's very junior high. "We're the cool kids!" "No, we are!"

[creativelcro]

9. Dean is a war hero, not Kerry

People who did not go to war are the real HEROs. They saved many more lives by not going than by going. They had the guts to stand up to the patriotic memes and do the right thing for America.

[D G]

16. Divisive, either-or thinking.

Good luck with that...

[DemBones DemBones]

22. Dean saved no lives except his own.

Another man went in Dean's place to participate. That man may have killed, may have been killed.

No Vietnamese or American lives were saved by Dean's not going.

Dean saved his own skin. I'd respect him if he'd been a CO (Conscientious Objector) who did alternative service for two years, or a war resister/ draft resister (one who refused to register and went to prison for two years.) Those men actively fought against the war by their resistance. I'd have no problem with him if he'd simply gotten a high number in the draft lottery, as Clinton did.

[mot78]

11. * was Governor of TX and McCain was a Senator

In 2000, * was the "insider", while McCain was like an "outsider". * had all of the support from traditional Repuke sources, while McCain garnered a lot of apolitical types. Dean's hardly an outsider.

[TLM]

12. Yeah...and Bush isn't right wing either...

Kerry is the very definition of insider. Sit ont eh fence, play both sides... skip those abortion votes to avoid having them on your record one way or the other.

Dean is an outsider, and the best argument you can come up with is that he has support of some insiders or he hires an insider to help him navigate the system that is dominated by insiders?


And if you have any doubt that Kerry is the insider here... just look at the media coverage. Dean was hammered constantly, and still is being attacked. While Kerry is getting nothing but the softball treatment.

[bigtree]

21. John Kerry: abortion

Date: 01/21/2003
January 21, 2003
Remarks of Senator John Kerry
NARAL 30th Anniversary Dinner
http://www.johnkerry.com

This is an extraordinary gathering at an extraordinary time. What is at stake is not just the right to choose. Never in my years in the Senate have the rights of women been at such risk – never have women been assaulted in their citizenship here at home or womanhood around the globe as they are by this administration. NARAL is without question the front line defense in this struggle and when judgments are made, the judgment is inescapable that Kate Michelman is one of the most effective and important civil rights leaders in our time. Kate has saved more women's lives and liberated more women than almost anyone and taken on more tough fights than anyone else committed to this cause. We are grateful for all those represented here who are joined in this struggle. I learned much about this as a prosecutor – setting up a rape counseling and victims' assistance unit – I learned about heinous crimes that were all about power – about stripping women of dignity and control over their lives.

And that's what this fight is all about. It's about power. It's about who decides. And it is beyond my comprehension how, on an issue so personal to women, that a bunch of men in the White House or Congress dare to claim rectitude and make this decision and interfere with the freedom and rights of millions of women. Anyone who has talked to or knows a woman who has faced this dilemma knows how difficult, how painful and how lonely it can be. We can't go back to the days of back alleys – days in which women were shamed and put to all kinds of risk. We can't put women in the place where their choice is to break the law and be branded a criminal. As the New York Times put it, this Administration and this Congress is waging a war against women today.

What else can you call their attempts to block women from access to contraceptives – to gag doctors from even mentioning the word abortion to their patients – to freeze funding for family planning across the world – to ban medical procedures even if a woman's health is at stake. We need to stop them from eroding and then destroying this right until they've taken us back to the time before women were truly free.

Nothing we say here diminishes or disrespects someone else's belief or morality. It respects America's fundamental fabric of justice and honors the notion that we don't impose our individual articles of faith on someone else. In reflecting on the Supreme Court's decision in Roe, Justice Harry Blackmun made clear: “It was a step we had to take towards the full emancipation of women.” Lose this right and more than 50 percent of America will not be free. As I said 18 years ago in my maiden speech in the U.S. Senate: “the right to choose is a fundamental right… neither the Government nor any person has the right to infringe on that freedom.” If I get to share a stage with this President and debate him… one of the first things I'll tell him is: “There's a defining issue between us. I trust women to make their own decisions. You don't. And that's the difference.” So it's time we said to this President: “we're not going to let you turn back the clock.”

No overturning Roe v. Wade

No packing of the courts with judges hostile to choice

No denial of choice to poor women

No outlawing of a procedure necessary to save a woman's life or physical health

No more cutbacks on population control efforts around the world

We need to take on this President and the forces of intolerance on the other side. We need to honestly and candidly take this cause to the country – speak up and be proud of what we stand for. My friends, you won the right to choose. It didn't just happen. People made it happen – women most of all. Now we need to work just as hard to protect it. We need to energize a new generation of citizens who care about freedom – who care about respect for women – and who will stand up and make clear that we can't go back. We will never go back. We will never, ever let this right be taken away!

[Raya]

13. Dean was first backed to be the "moderate" alternative to liberal Kerry.

[PATRICK]

14. the Establishment?

The one peeling off the facial omelette or the secret society whose candidate we can never discover? I don't think they backed anyone. If so they produced both the hopeless and the unprepared. The other party has the steamroller. Ours is rusting in back of the garage while the wine and cheese set slop drinks on the carpet.

[John_H]

17. They're BOTH establishment candidates

Dean was a centrist governor who kept a staff and office in DC, was more active than most governors in party operations, especially as chairman of the Dem Govs. Assn., where he raised money from the same corporate donors that the DLC raised money from and the same special interests the DNC raises money from. Like any governor should, he developed a web of close relationships with Dc insiders from lobbyists, to federal bereuacrats, to members of congress, raisng money for and from them.

Kerry's been in congress for nearly his whole adult life.

Clark is the only outsider with edwards a distant second. That's just a fact.

[WiseMen]

32. That is probably what it means to run for President: Some Establishment

must be supporting you, or it does not make much sense.

[Cheswick2.0]

18. this possibly the stupidest theory I have read yet

EJ never was one of my favorite pundits and for good reason. He is just ... well, wrong

[bigtree]

19. These are revealing measures of support for John Kerry

No matter what label you put on it, John Kerry did well with rank and file Democrats in the last contests.

Dean and Kerry, according to the network exit polls, split the ballots of those who said they had postgraduate degrees.

But Kerry beat Dean by 2 to 1 among voters without college degrees.

Kerry won easily over Dean among union members and also among gun owners.

Dean carried well-to-do college towns such as Hanover and Keene.

But Kerry beat Dean decisively in the blue-collar bastions of Berlin and Manchester. In Berlin, for example, it was Kerry, 1,149, and Dean, 394.

[goodhue]

20. yes, both are establishment

[Desertrose]

35. I gotta agree with ya, goodhue

Dennis is the least establishment of any of em...he & Rev Al!


Peace
DR

[edzontar]

24. Nonsense. Dean ran against the Dem-Lite sell-outs

Like Kerry---

[TheDonkey]

27. Dean's record is Establishment DLC Centrist poster child.

until he turned anti-war and began to bash the DLC. I'm glad he's standing up for the democratic wing of the party but his supporters have to see that this is a new spin on his politics than when he was Gov.

[pnziii]

28. Washington Post ?????

The WP is pro-Bush
Of course they are going to say this they want Kerry as the nominee

Isn't the WP owned by Murdock?

[bigtree]

31. the author Dionne is a solid Democrat

[stickdog]

33. establishment media's candidate = establishment candidate

And the Whorington Post is the prime example.

[Rich Hunt]

34. unions?!?

When I think of 'the establishment', I don't think of those unions.

Sheesh.

[mitchum]

36. kicking truth over bullshit